Help a rookie???

[Desperado]

Hello everyone, I'm new to this forum and was told that you guys are the go-to guys for anything FAL-related. Well, I've had an itch to get into the .308 rifles for a while now. I have Kalashnikov type, AR-15, SKS, and Ruger Minis in my collection, but the .308 is a niche that I would like to fill. I actually grew up shooting M1A and M1 Garand rifles, so it is quite surprising to me that I don't have an auto with more punch. I've been making the rounds at my area gun shops and fondling the merchandise, and I really like the FAL style and H&K style rifles. Eventually, I would like to have both (as well as an M1A National Match, Saiga conversion, and and RRA LAR-10), but for now I am debating between these two. I know this is basically going to be a Coke vs. Pepsi thing, so I guess my real questions pertain to the makers.

The FALs I've been handling have mostly been DSA, at least the ones I've been impressed with anyways. One local shop has an SA58 basic rifle used for $1600, and an STG58 for $1200. Sounds like the lead time on an order for one will be a few months. I've done a little shopping around online and saw this rifle at Centerfire Systems http://www.centerfiresystems.com/FAL-RIFLE.aspx for $699. I also saw a whole list of rifles at Ohio Rapid Fire ranging from $550-$750, but it says they are all out of stock. I've never bought a firearm through the mail before, and I was just wondering what anyone had to say about either of these companies. The ORF rifles say they are built on Imbel receivers with a mix of parts from Century and DSA, but the one from Centerfire uses a Century receiver. Does Centerfire build their rifles in house, or are they just total Century made rifles? I've sent email to Centerfire and ORF but neither have responded yet. I'd like outside opinions to both of them anyways before I make any decision. I've heard that Century can be hit or miss, so I was wondering if they've gotten any better lately or what. Any other makers and/or sellers you know of that have anything great going on is welcome news too.

I appreciate everyone who has read through my post and any advice you have to give is much appreciated, and I thank you in advance.

Justin

[Matt(formerly@)EntrepriseArms]

DSA makes a fine rifle, and is the most popular by far. You pretty much can't go wrong with one of those if you have one availible to you.

Our are pretty good too, and I would like to think a strong "second place" to the DSA.

Thats what I would recommend, but then again, I'm a little biased

[cbr954fz1]

it took alot of work and extra money to get my new $780 century working right and the entreprise that my brother bought new from atlantic firearms works great no problems at all!!! even though you can get any fal to work right you shouldnt have to fix a newly built century. spend your money wisely, if your going to buy a century, buy a previously owned w/ the issues already worked out or works well. dsa you cant go wrong if you have a fat wallet. entreprise is also a good choice. the marketplace is also a good place to check for good fals.

good luck w/ your decision, lots of help from members if you have a problem. i own 2 centurys r1a1 and L1a1, entreprise built r1a1 and 2 imbels stg's. i'm addicted what can i say ...cbr

[Azrial]

I like my DSA quite a bit. I ordered it exactly like I wanted it with a computer generated drawing and DSA did not disappoint me!

Of course I also like my L1A1 and my homebuilt StG on an Imbel frame. Maybe I just like FALs period?

[Vaughn L. Allen]

The ORF stuff is sold out and has been for a couple of years. If they do start selling FALs again, the price will be higher.

The FALs from Centerfire are made by Century and the quality is lacking. It's hit and miss with them. They are still having problems with their new receivers even though they are supposed to be improved and the finish work is not near what you'll get with the others.

I have a few DSAs and they are all superb rifles. I have a friend that has used a new Entreprise receiver for a build and it worked perfectly. He also recently purchased a FAL from Entreprise and it is very nice, fuctions as well as my DSAs, and has a nice finish.

To be honest with you, I will likely buy an Entreprise next and save a few hundred dollars provided that they don't start jacking up their prices.

If you decide to have one built for you from a kit, Mark at Coyote Gulch Armory has built two for me and I'll be shipping parts to him here shortly for another one. He does a great job!

[Desperado]

I sure do appreciate the responses guys. I have never heard of Entreprise until mentioned here. I checked out their website and so far I like what I see. Of course, I have the same apprehension that I have with what ORF and Centerfire has because I can't really see their product before I drop a wad of dough on it. I only wish I knew of a dealer in my area that has an Entreprise in stock, but I've only seen one shop in the SLC area that ever has any FAL of any kind on the rack in the past 6 months to a year. I guess Utah isn't FAL country. Even AKs are pretty scarce nowadays, it's just ARs, ARs, and more ARs. There's a gun show coming up in my area, maybe I'll get lucky and someone will have an Entreprise built rifle there just so I can have a looksy.

Sounds to me like Ohio Rapid Fire is not an outfit I want to do business with. Apparently, they need to get their customer service and website up to speed. "Temporarily out of stock"? What a joke especially if they haven't been selling FALs for as long as you say. You guys have helped a ton, and it sounds best to steer clear from Century, especially if I wind up paying as much as DSA or Entreprise anyways just to get it to work right.

How does the customer service and warranty compare between DSA and Entreprise, and what is the lead time looking like? I'd like to get one before the year's end if possible, just in case Obama bin Laden gets elected.

[paraFAL]

if cost is not a hindering point.... DSA hands down.

[Vaughn L. Allen]

I just got my last DSA STG58 about two months ago through Impact Guns in Kearns, Utah. I waited about four months for it. My previous DSA took about five months.

If you decide to build one, there's quite a few devoted FAL and AK47 builders in the SLC area.

[Desperado]

I used to buy from that Impact store when they first opened after they bought out Totally Awesome Guns, but the staff they've got there now sucks. I haven't been to the Ogden store in about a year, but if they treat their customers like they do down in Salt Lake then I won't be buying anything from either Utah Impact ever again. Last time I was up at the Ogden one the guys were really friendly, hopefully that hasn't changed. Dave at Doug's Shoot'N Sports is nice to deal with (if you can get through the line waiting to talk to him), but the rest of the guys are idiots. I went to high school with a couple of them.

I've spent a lot of time at the new Get Some location and those guys have been really helpful. I feel bad that I'll probably be going through another connection to order because they won't charge me for the FFL transfer, but I use their range a lot so they are getting quite a bit of my money already.

I would be interested in the names of some FAL builders in the area if you've got 'em.

[Vaughn L. Allen]

It's not about personality, it's about the product. Hell, I've bought more guns from Norman VanWagonen in Orem than any other gun store and his personality just plain sucks.

I would order either a DSA or Entreprise FAL. You haven't lived until you drop over a grand oredering a rifle on-line.

After you do that, you need to buy one from a member on the marketplace. It's kind of a rush to send a bunch of money to someone you've never met before who goes by an alias and trust that you're not going to get screwed! Most of the people on this board have experienced the rush=)

[Desperado]

I bought a shotgun off ksl.com a while ago from a guy who is real close friends with Norm. He said he's shutting down and moving to Moab. I know who Norm is, but I've never talked to the man. I've always been helped by someone else there. I've heard a lot of crazy stories though. I've got a coworker who has an FFL and he doesn't charge transfer fees to friends and family, so I likely will order through him.

I got burned twice by the SL Impact store on orders, so that's mainly why I don't care to go back there. Basically my confidence in that store being able to order a custom gun is severely lacking.

Pretty much most of the Wasatch front gun stores employ people that lack social skills, but competency still needs to be key. The guys at Gallenson's are some of the orneriest old farts you'll ever meet, but at least these guys have come through for me every time I've done business with them.

[Desperado]

There's a DSA on gunbroker.com right now for $599. From the pictures it looks to be in pretty decent shape. It's the Belgian FN style 21", and has the bipod and carry handle. It comes with 13 mags. The catch is that it says it needs the "rear butt stock spring" reinstalled, which requires special tools to do it. I'm not sure if the seller has the spring and it just has to be put back in, or if a new one will have to be purchased. I sent the seller a message about that.

So FAL gurus, is this something that really does have to be done by a gunsmith and how much is this spring usually? Why would he have it out to begin with? Is this an indication of a larger problem?

[Matt(formerly@)EntrepriseArms]

The spring he is referring to is most likely the recoil spring, which is inserted through the buttstock. He probably took it out because he wanted to change his buttstock or something - no big deal.

Assuming he still has it and the nut to hold it in place, it is very easy to re-install with the use of a buttstock removal tool, which can be purchased for $10-$20. There are some videos on Youtube that show how to dissassemble and reassemble your Fal that are surprisingly helpful.

If the spring or any parts of it such as the plunger or nut are missing, that is more of a pain, but the parts can be purchased from a variety of sources.

[SteveW]

Agreed, easy to fix.

The question would be 'why is the recoil spring removed ?'.

I have come across a few FAL rifles with the recoil spring stripped out (it's easy to remove, not so to reassemble) by new owners who experience 'fail to extract/eject' issues and target the recoil spring immediately. It's usually friction on the bolt carrier that beds in after a few hundred rounds, but the owners believe that the gun should work 'out of the box'.. After a dropping anywhere from $600 to $1000, who can blame them ?

[B. B. Ryan]

My personal experiences: DSA and Entreprise are superior to anything else I've seen over here in the colonies. Have 3 DSA's at present. Entreprise did some shop work for me a few years back and the quality and turn around time was second to none. I'd recommend either of them. Over the years I've had well over 25 FNFAL's and other mfg's.