Anyone ID this stuff?

Arby · March 11, 2001, 08:52

A couple of years ago I bought a case of ammo from a local gun store. They had purchased several cases of this stuff from a good customer of theirs. They did not know the origin.

The case headstamps are marked only "7.62 mm". No Nato headstamps or other markings. There were 900 rounds per crate, packed in unmarked cardboard boxes of 15 each. The ammo came in a wooden crate, which was lead-lined. The ammo was completely sealed in the lead; there was a string to pull to tear the top lead sheet off to get to the boxes of ammo. Absolutely no markings at all on the crate or on the cardboard boxes.

Primers are slightly convex, sealed with red sealant, and staked with three stakes like Hirtneburger is. Cases are brass and berdan primed. Bullets appear to be copper-jacketed, though I haven't cut into one yet to verifiy the composition/construction. Case necks are heavily crimped. The ammo shoots fine. I would rate it's performance as good as Hirt or R.G.

Any ideas on its origin?

TideWater 41009 · March 12, 2001, 10:23

A word of caution; be very careful when pulling or sectioning any military bullet of uncertain origin. I have read accounts of people who have been seriously injured (loss of eyes, fingers,etc.) while sectioning incendiary and tracer projectiles and even when just pulling the projectiles from these types of cartridges.

Refinishing Guy.

------------------
"A man not shackled with the truth can win any debate."

WII · March 12, 2001, 19:39

Arby-

What color is the wooden case?

Scott

Arby · March 13, 2001, 08:35

Scott,

The crate is painted a light green. It has two metal straps that serve as hinges and latch plates. There are also 2 rope handles. I was wrong on no markings on the crate. On the front of the crate is:

21-9-20/B
2883

Any ideas? I found it odd that there are no markings identifying the origin of the ammo on the crate, on boxes or on the cartridges themselves.

WII · March 13, 2001, 14:47

Arby-

My belief is this would be Yugoslav military production. The 15 rnd box and 900 rnd case counts are big hints, they also produced 30.06 in theses same quantities. Thier 7.62x39 was packaged in 15 rnd boxes also, but the military wooden box came in 1260 case quantities. All the wooden cases were Lt. Green in color, until the most recent batch of 7.62x39 FMJ that SOG is currently selling, the boxes are still 15 rnd Ct#. Another clue would be triangle or oval shapped lashing strap hooks on the cases themselves, as the Yugoslav boys made extensive use of pack animals to get their stuff around the rugged and steep terrain in that part of Europe.

Scott

------------------
www.SurplusAmmo.com

Arby · March 13, 2001, 18:42

There are no strap hooks on the crate, but the conjecture that the ammo is Yugo is the most solid opinion I have heard yet. Thanks!

**BUFF** · March 13, 2001, 22:42

Scott:

There now, was that so hard?

Here you are, trying to provide free advice to a fellow FALer, not trying to sell him anything, not putting the mouth on the group buy effort and those involved...

Had you come on board with this sort of attitude (helpful, friendly, not condescending) in the first place, you would have moved a lot more merch, and just maybe most of us wouldn't think of you as a wanker.

BUFF

March 11, 2001, 08:52	#1
Arby Registered FALaholic #: 653 Join Date: Aug 2000 Posts: 3,488	Anyone ID this stuff? A couple of years ago I bought a case of ammo from a local gun store. They had purchased several cases of this stuff from a good customer of theirs. They did not know the origin. The case headstamps are marked only "7.62 mm". No Nato headstamps or other markings. There were 900 rounds per crate, packed in unmarked cardboard boxes of 15 each. The ammo came in a wooden crate, which was lead-lined. The ammo was completely sealed in the lead; there was a string to pull to tear the top lead sheet off to get to the boxes of ammo. Absolutely no markings at all on the crate or on the cardboard boxes. Primers are slightly convex, sealed with red sealant, and staked with three stakes like Hirtneburger is. Cases are brass and berdan primed. Bullets appear to be copper-jacketed, though I haven't cut into one yet to verifiy the composition/construction. Case necks are heavily crimped. The ammo shoots fine. I would rate it's performance as good as Hirt or R.G. Any ideas on its origin?

March 12, 2001, 19:39	#3
WII Registered FALaholic #: 2280 Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Redmond, Oregon, USA Posts: 9	Arby- What color is the wooden case? Scott __________________ www.SurplusAmmo.com

March 13, 2001, 14:47	#5
WII Registered FALaholic #: 2280 Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Redmond, Oregon, USA Posts: 9	Arby- My belief is this would be Yugoslav military production. The 15 rnd box and 900 rnd case counts are big hints, they also produced 30.06 in theses same quantities. Thier 7.62x39 was packaged in 15 rnd boxes also, but the military wooden box came in 1260 case quantities. All the wooden cases were Lt. Green in color, until the most recent batch of 7.62x39 FMJ that SOG is currently selling, the boxes are still 15 rnd Ct#. Another clue would be triangle or oval shapped lashing strap hooks on the cases themselves, as the Yugoslav boys made extensive use of pack animals to get their stuff around the rugged and steep terrain in that part of Europe. Scott ------------------ www.SurplusAmmo.com __________________ www.SurplusAmmo.com

March 13, 2001, 22:42	#7
BUFF Old Fart Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 789 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 7,141	Scott: There now, was that so hard? Here you are, trying to provide free advice to a fellow FALer, not trying to sell him anything, not putting the mouth on the group buy effort and those involved... Had you come on board with this sort of attitude (helpful, friendly, not condescending) in the first place, you would have moved a lot more merch, and just maybe most of us wouldn't think of you as a wanker. BUFF __________________ BUFF

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March 12, 2001, 10:23	#2
TideWater 41009 Registered FALaholic #: 1789 Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 1,364	A word of caution; be very careful when pulling or sectioning any military bullet of uncertain origin. I have read accounts of people who have been seriously injured (loss of eyes, fingers,etc.) while sectioning incendiary and tracer projectiles and even when just pulling the projectiles from these types of cartridges. Refinishing Guy. ------------------ "A man not shackled with the truth can win any debate."

March 13, 2001, 08:35	#4
Arby Registered FALaholic #: 653 Join Date: Aug 2000 Posts: 3,488	Scott, The crate is painted a light green. It has two metal straps that serve as hinges and latch plates. There are also 2 rope handles. I was wrong on no markings on the crate. On the front of the crate is: 21-9-20/B 2883 Any ideas? I found it odd that there are no markings identifying the origin of the ammo on the crate, on boxes or on the cartridges themselves.

March 13, 2001, 18:42	#6
Arby Registered FALaholic #: 653 Join Date: Aug 2000 Posts: 3,488	There are no strap hooks on the crate, but the conjecture that the ammo is Yugo is the most solid opinion I have heard yet. Thanks!