STG Kits - Are Barrels Serial Numbered?

[faltoarms]

I've got an STG kit with matching reciever, bolt, but am told that barrels are also stamped with serial? Where?

Thanx - FTA

[EinheitElf]

If the kit is an all STG with the ORIGINAL barrel and the lower/bolt/carrier/etc #s match, the barrel should also. My all matching STG does. My barrel is stamped towards the chamber end of the barrel before the flats for wrenching.--remove and look under the handguards maybe 2-4 inches before the chamber swell area of the barrel.

Hope this helps

[faltoarms]

Thanx EinheitElf...I'll take a look.

FTA

[Radio]

I even have one StG kit where the original barrel had died or something, a replacement (with a higher number) was supplied, the higher number struck out, and the rifle's lower number restamped.

Oh yes, they numbered the barrels.

--Radio

[faltoarms]

Thats interesting...that they went to such pains...kind of neat that they did.

FTA

[mojo_matic]

I do not believe that ANYONE here has witnessed an STG-58 barrel without a serial number, Belgian or Austrian.... replacement or not.

[gunplumber]

I've never seen one with a number struck out, like referenced above - I'd more think it was someone in the US trying to make it a "matching number" kit.

[Radio]

Well........ got it in 1999 when matching numbers kits were plentiful and cheap. Belgian StG with serial in 56**. Barrel was something like 130***. Still had receiver stub, of course, which appeared to match the center stub. Looked like an arsenal rebarrel job to me, since every other number matched, but you've seen more of these things than I have. Don't know. Just seems to be a lot of unnecessary effort, with all the matching number StGs that were hiding around every corner back then. Think I paid only $179 or $199 for the kit in question. The barrel was pretty nice and I held it back for a spare; it's in storage right now.

--Radio

[Lee Carpentieri]

Radio, Your kit probaly was mixed up in germany were DSA had most BUT not all of the intial kits demilled until they had learned to just ship them here as whole weapons and demilled them at a bonded warehouse with a US customs inspector watching the demilling process and somewhere along the line either in Germany or here where the barrels got mixed up. But who knows for sure. When they were demilled in Germany the germans would pull the bolt and carrier out and just band cut the receiver and then throw what was left in a industrial garbage bag and then throw them into a container for shipment here to the USA.

[Mebsuta]

Teh Germans would line stuff out and restamp all the time when rebuilding their Mausers at depot level.

[Lee Carpentieri]

Were talking about Austria and the STG-58's Mebsuta.

[Radio]

Indeed... and we're ALSO talking about (I think) the Austrians lining out my barrel's original number and restamping it with the kit's number. In reading your post above it seems this may possibly have escaped your notice.

* Lower receiver: 5600
* Carrier: 5600
* Bolt: 5600
* Barrel: 130000 5600

Scenario One: The Austrian Army rebarreled the rifle that later became my kit; struck out the old (130000) number and renumbered to match the rifle (5600). Comment: Plausible. Teutonic armies are already known (based on Mebs) to perform this same operation on their Mausers. Receiver sections, which are Belgian, appear to match.

Scenario Two: The Austrian Army is de-milling rifles. Somehow the barrel from Kit 130000 gets mixed up with the rest of the parts from Kit 5600. Somebody in the USA sees this and happens to have a set of stamps handy; strikes out 130000 and re-stamps the barrel 5600. Comment: Appears unlikely, since a) matching numbers kits were quite plentiful at the time, why go through the extra effort; b) kits were selling for just $179, why expend employee time on a strike and renumber; c) this four-digit kit is of Belgian manufacture, the finish on the receivers was slightly different from the finish on the Steyr receivers, and it so happens that the barrel stub and center section appeared to match; d) this begs the question, what happened to Kit 130000 with a missing barrel, did somebody grab a barrel off ANOTHER kit and then renumber THAT? When did it end?

Now, I'm just a small-potatoes dude with a goodly handful of StG kits; Mark has seen literally hundreds of these things and his experience level compared to mine is stratospheric. The logic of the arsenal rebarrel appeals to me on numerous levels, while the USA renumbering appears to hold numerous flaws. But the bottom line is, I really don't know, but here are the facts for your consideration.

--Radio

[gunplumber]

Please don't think I am challenging your credibility. I absolutely believe what you are stating, I am only pointing out that I have never seen it, and I have seen a lot, so it is probably uncommon.

[Lee Carpentieri]

Radio said, Scenario Two: The Austrian Army is de-milling rifles.

The Federal agency I used to work for sent me to these countries as a procurement officer more times than I can talk about and thats about 20 years. You have to realise that the Austrian army has had a 20000 man standing active army for over 35 years now with reserves at about 165000, The Austrians would have no real reason to demill weapons that have very little use other than being carried alot and shot very little. Now I would think that your other conclusion about someone here scratching out the number and adding the serial number of the other matching numbers would be alot more correct. I also have about 10 STG-58 kits and some are 4 digit serial numbers made by Fn and some are Steyr made and all are matching numbers with bores that almost gage zero on the erosion gage.

[Mebsuta]

Radio is finish removed or intact where serial number has been restruck?

[ftierson]

Altogether, I have handled several dozen StG-58 rifles/kits...

All have had the barrel serial numbered to the rest of the gun. I have never seen one (barrel) that was renumbered. These were all near new 'kits,' not the pieced together stuff that is commonly seen today.

Currently, the lowest numbered rifle that I have is in the 72xxx range. It's barrel is numbered to the gun but it does not have the Steyr trademark/logo, like most later guns do (for example, I also have guns in the 130,000, 140,000 and 150,000 ranges, and all of the barrels are serialed to the rest of the rifle, and all also have the Steyr trademark stamped on the barrel too...

I have never seen a struck-out/renumbered number on an StG-58 barrel.

None of this is meant to dump on Radio. It's just a quick comment on what I've seen.

Then again, I'm not quite as familiar with the earlier FN production of the StG-58 (below SN 20,000) as I am with the Steyr production guns.

My first guess is that someone here (importer) renumbered the barrel to 'match' the kit, but that's just a guess...

Just out of curiosity, does the barrel with the 130,000 series SN stamped out and renumbered in the 5600 range have the Steyr logo? From what I've seen, Steyr started stamping their logo on the barrel somewhere in the 130,000 range, or perhaps slightly before.

For what little it's all worth...

Forrest

[mojo_matic]

Guessing that it is not possible than a part could have been lost or damaged, while being handled by a number of soldiers over said life of the rifle? Parts could have been donated from another rifle which was damaged or incomplete during its service?

Anyone who has spent time in the military has witnesses at least one damaged barrel during their career? I know that I have!

We have not seen a single example of an Austrian rifle w/o serial numbers in typical locations.

We have not seen Austrian replacement parts minus a serial number.

As ftierson has suggested, an Austrian rifle would a very long shelf life. The relatively small Austrian military would not require a massive supply of replacement parts as we do. I do not believe it unreasonable to expect the same military (armorers) to set aside servicable parts from damaged or incomplete rifle for refurbishment of other rifles.

Regardless, we will never know. Luckily, the serial number sits BENEATH the hand guard. Anyone can feel content that an Austrian barrel will be a good shooter. If anyone happens to question the XXX'd out renumber, there is always good fodder for argument or BS.... which can be enjoyable in its own right.

[Radio]

Mark, I take no offense, and have no hidden agenda; I'm not a girl, or some sensitive metrosexual. Straight logic in this case; wherever the facts lead, they lead, and I don't care where we wind up as long as it's the truth.

Good questions, Mebs, ftierson. You guys are going to make me dig this thing out of storage.


Too bad we can't currently post pics,
--Radio

[wolfsburgbob]

Originally posted by ftierson



My first guess is that someone here (importer) renumbered the barrel to 'match' the kit, but that's just a guess...

Professor,

In my very extensive experience making sure every rifle kit I have ever sold DOES match, be it a FAL or an AK-47, it is my finding the the "importers" normally have no idea if every kit matches. They may have been told that by the selling entity, but they don't really know. Furthermore, the importers do not really care if every kit matches, nor would they do anything about it if a few or more didn't match.

Hell Forrest, most importers just count beans and leave the unimportant matching numbers issue to the anal-retentive collector peons like me.

Selling them FAST,... is all they are concerned about!





PS,...and I have never "hand forced" a match.

Well, ...I take that back,...not on FAL and AKs kits,...ain't worth the effort,...but maybe I've "whacked" a few dozen or more late WWII salt blue Nazi Police Lugers in my day"!

The sound of the surface grinder and the smell of bubbling salts fill my memories!