Ident: South African R1A1 Sporter?

ERIKGLEZ · July 11, 2001, 15:08

I HAVE A FAL RIFLE WITH THE MARKS:
R1A1 SPORTER
MADE BY IMBEL-BRAZIL
CAI-ST ALB VT
ON THE RECIVER. CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHAT IT MEANS? IT IS MY FIRST FAL AND I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH THEM.
THANKS

ByronF · July 11, 2001, 15:19

All that indicates is that the receiver is an Imbel (either the best or the runner up) metric receiver imported by Century Arms Intl. Imbel is the last commercially available FN licensed FAL receiver manufacturer, FWIW. The CAI markings do not necessarily indicate that you have a Century rifle, as I purchased a similarly marked receiver from Federal Arms Corp and built it onto an STG kit myself. The R1A1 marking is just a Century designation, drawing on name recognition of the South African R1 and the Brit L1A1. I'm not certain we can draw any further conclusions from your information. Century guns usually have a buttstock without a rear sling swivel. The bolt hold-open device pin might also be ground off if it's a Century rifle. If it works well you have a good rifle.

Byron

gunhead · July 11, 2001, 22:11

Hi Guys;
Mine also does'nt have a muzzle Brake or Rear Sling swivel. It did have the front swivel though

.
I removed the front swivel & put a Bipod on it. The Bipod had a "key" but there was no "keyway" cutout on the barrel but I got it to fit after much foolin' around

My works pretty darn good, amazingly better them my CAI Cetme

GL.....

ERIKGLEZ · July 12, 2001, 07:55

I DON'T THINK MY IS A CENTURY, IT DOES HAVE THE SLING SWIVEL IN THE BUTTSTOCK AND ALSO A D.S.A INC. MARK ON THE HAND GRIP + IT WAS SOLD TO ME AS A D.S.A ON AN IMBEL RECEIVER FOR $1,000.00 AND THE COND. IS ALMOST NEW MINOR SCRATCH WERE THE BIPOT SITS.
WAS THAT A GOOD DEAL?

ByronF · July 12, 2001, 08:34

Well, I'm not sure what the seller may have meant by a 'DSA' rifle. DSA manufactures their own receiver, so a true DSA rifle would have a DSA receiver, I'd imagine. DSA currently manufactures their new FAL using almost all new US made parts.

More recently they've started selling their 'authentic Austrian STG' which is a surplus SGT kit built on a DSA receiver with the required number of US made parts. Probably the H/T/S, p-grip, piston, brake, and of course the receiver.

I'm thinking you didn't get a DSA rifle, but that doesn't mean it isn't a fine rifle. There are some master FAL smiths who assemble beautiful rifles that fetch $1000. There are also ham-fisted apes assembling rifles in their garage (me). If the finish is great, the parts fit and work, and the barrel is pristine, I'd say you didn't get plundered. You were, however, misled.

This rifle has a brake and not a flash suppressor, I hope. Also, I'd verify that you have the requisite number of US parts (actually, less than 10 import parts from 'the list').

Byron

ERIKGLEZ · July 12, 2001, 13:06

IS THERE ANY WAY OF MAKING THE RIFLE LIGHTER MINE IS ABOUT 13 LB. AND ALSO WHAT'S THE BEST SCOPE MOUNT FOR IT.

ByronF · July 12, 2001, 13:11

Depends on how far you want to go. DSA sells a US made aluminum lower, but they're pricey IMO. Ditching the bipod and lopping off a few inches of barrel are a good first start. Not much that can be done beyond that, except for some serious machining work with some lightening cuts in the receiver. Not recommended by me.

ERIKGLEZ · July 12, 2001, 14:13

MINE HAS A 21" BARREL IF I CUT IT DOWN TO 16" WOULDN'T THAT AFFECT THE ACCURACY OF THE RIFLE.

ByronF · July 12, 2001, 14:25

Not necessarily. In fact, not likely. If it's a good shooting barrel at 21", it'll be a good shooting barrel at 18" or 16". I'd not go shorter than 18", but I like the full length pipe, too. The bipod is a big hog if you're really concerned with weight. I figure it's more like 10 lb all dressed out, but I'm not sure.

If you want a light rifle I'd build (or have built) a whole different piece. Built a carbine on a DSA aluminum lower with plastic handguards and no bipod. The steel might be lighter but they're too hot. Entreprise is coming out with an aluminum upper receiver, but I'd let others be the guinnea pigs on that one.

Byron

RocketmanVT · July 13, 2001, 02:23

ERICGLEZ,
Translated, it all means "Century Arms, Inc., Saint Albans, Vermont." The DSA on the pistol grip is the manufacturer. You have a Century gun, and whether it's worth $1,000 is up to you. From your description, I may have built that very rifle; only recently has CIA/CAI gone to buttstocks without rear sling swivels (DON'T ask me why - I've NO clue!)
Don't go screwing around with the receiver, unless you know precisely what you're doing. A slip here or there can be costly at best, dangerous at worst. I agree with ByronF...Build/have built a carbine, with light materials.

ByronF · July 13, 2001, 07:02

Rocketman,

Because Fed Arms was/is selling CAI imported R1A1 marked receivers, it's difficult to say who built it. The presence of the DSA pistol grip makes me doubt that it was a CAI assembly. Why would someone swap out a CAI US made p-grip for a DSA US made p-grip? Doesn't make sense. I'm guessing it is a kit rifle built on a CAI imported receiver.

Pictures would help a lot. I'd like to see if the buttpad is a CAI or Steyer type. Muzzle device? Handguards? Charging handle? Gas piston (is there a seam, i.e. two piece)? Also, get a pic of the front of the trigger where it emerges from the lower. A well lit close up pic of the side of the receiver might help as well, as the quality of the finish might help.

Byron

hydrotx · July 13, 2001, 08:16

Actually Byron,
My frankenfal (sorry Rocketman) from CAI came with the DSA PG on it. Have no clue why, just was pleased to see it.

My 2 centavos

July 11, 2001, 15:08	#1
ERIKGLEZ Registered FALaholic #: 3614 Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 5	R1A1 SPORTER I HAVE A FAL RIFLE WITH THE MARKS: R1A1 SPORTER MADE BY IMBEL-BRAZIL CAI-ST ALB VT ON THE RECIVER. CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHAT IT MEANS? IT IS MY FIRST FAL AND I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH THEM. THANKS

July 11, 2001, 22:11	#3
gunhead Registered FALaholic #: 2820 Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Port Charlotte, Florida Posts: 2,395	Hi Guys; Mine also does'nt have a muzzle Brake or Rear Sling swivel. It did have the front swivel though . I removed the front swivel & put a Bipod on it. The Bipod had a "key" but there was no "keyway" cutout on the barrel but I got it to fit after much foolin' around My works pretty darn good, amazingly better them my CAI Cetme GL..... __________________ Gun-Head "Who ever said that Common Sense was so Common?"

July 13, 2001, 02:23	#10
RocketmanVT Registered FALaholic #: 3006 Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Arizona City, AZ 85223 Posts: 87	ERICGLEZ, Translated, it all means "Century Arms, Inc., Saint Albans, Vermont." The DSA on the pistol grip is the manufacturer. You have a Century gun, and whether it's worth $1,000 is up to you. From your description, I may have built that very rifle; only recently has CIA/CAI gone to buttstocks without rear sling swivels (DON'T ask me why - I've NO clue!) Don't go screwing around with the receiver, unless you know precisely what you're doing. A slip here or there can be costly at best, dangerous at worst. I agree with ByronF...Build/have built a carbine, with light materials. __________________ The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance, which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt. (John Philpot Curran, 1750-1817)

July 13, 2001, 08:16	#12
hydrotx Registered FALaholic #: 37 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: PA for now Posts: 1,414	Actually Byron, My frankenfal (sorry Rocketman) from CAI came with the DSA PG on it. Have no clue why, just was pleased to see it. My 2 centavos __________________ "The drinking will continue until morale improves"

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July 11, 2001, 15:19	#2
ByronF Registered FALaholic #: 630 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,174	All that indicates is that the receiver is an Imbel (either the best or the runner up) metric receiver imported by Century Arms Intl. Imbel is the last commercially available FN licensed FAL receiver manufacturer, FWIW. The CAI markings do not necessarily indicate that you have a Century rifle, as I purchased a similarly marked receiver from Federal Arms Corp and built it onto an STG kit myself. The R1A1 marking is just a Century designation, drawing on name recognition of the South African R1 and the Brit L1A1. I'm not certain we can draw any further conclusions from your information. Century guns usually have a buttstock without a rear sling swivel. The bolt hold-open device pin might also be ground off if it's a Century rifle. If it works well you have a good rifle. Byron

July 12, 2001, 07:55	#4
ERIKGLEZ Registered FALaholic #: 3614 Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 5	I DON'T THINK MY IS A CENTURY, IT DOES HAVE THE SLING SWIVEL IN THE BUTTSTOCK AND ALSO A D.S.A INC. MARK ON THE HAND GRIP + IT WAS SOLD TO ME AS A D.S.A ON AN IMBEL RECEIVER FOR $1,000.00 AND THE COND. IS ALMOST NEW MINOR SCRATCH WERE THE BIPOT SITS. WAS THAT A GOOD DEAL?

July 12, 2001, 08:34	#5
ByronF Registered FALaholic #: 630 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,174	Well, I'm not sure what the seller may have meant by a 'DSA' rifle. DSA manufactures their own receiver, so a true DSA rifle would have a DSA receiver, I'd imagine. DSA currently manufactures their new FAL using almost all new US made parts. More recently they've started selling their 'authentic Austrian STG' which is a surplus SGT kit built on a DSA receiver with the required number of US made parts. Probably the H/T/S, p-grip, piston, brake, and of course the receiver. I'm thinking you didn't get a DSA rifle, but that doesn't mean it isn't a fine rifle. There are some master FAL smiths who assemble beautiful rifles that fetch $1000. There are also ham-fisted apes assembling rifles in their garage (me). If the finish is great, the parts fit and work, and the barrel is pristine, I'd say you didn't get plundered. You were, however, misled. This rifle has a brake and not a flash suppressor, I hope. Also, I'd verify that you have the requisite number of US parts (actually, less than 10 import parts from 'the list'). Byron

July 12, 2001, 13:06	#6
ERIKGLEZ Registered FALaholic #: 3614 Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 5	IS THERE ANY WAY OF MAKING THE RIFLE LIGHTER MINE IS ABOUT 13 LB. AND ALSO WHAT'S THE BEST SCOPE MOUNT FOR IT.

July 12, 2001, 13:11	#7
ByronF Registered FALaholic #: 630 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,174	Depends on how far you want to go. DSA sells a US made aluminum lower, but they're pricey IMO. Ditching the bipod and lopping off a few inches of barrel are a good first start. Not much that can be done beyond that, except for some serious machining work with some lightening cuts in the receiver. Not recommended by me.

July 12, 2001, 14:13	#8
ERIKGLEZ Registered FALaholic #: 3614 Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 5	MINE HAS A 21" BARREL IF I CUT IT DOWN TO 16" WOULDN'T THAT AFFECT THE ACCURACY OF THE RIFLE.

July 12, 2001, 14:25	#9
ByronF Registered FALaholic #: 630 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,174	Not necessarily. In fact, not likely. If it's a good shooting barrel at 21", it'll be a good shooting barrel at 18" or 16". I'd not go shorter than 18", but I like the full length pipe, too. The bipod is a big hog if you're really concerned with weight. I figure it's more like 10 lb all dressed out, but I'm not sure. If you want a light rifle I'd build (or have built) a whole different piece. Built a carbine on a DSA aluminum lower with plastic handguards and no bipod. The steel might be lighter but they're too hot. Entreprise is coming out with an aluminum upper receiver, but I'd let others be the guinnea pigs on that one. Byron

July 13, 2001, 07:02	#11
ByronF Registered FALaholic #: 630 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,174	Rocketman, Because Fed Arms was/is selling CAI imported R1A1 marked receivers, it's difficult to say who built it. The presence of the DSA pistol grip makes me doubt that it was a CAI assembly. Why would someone swap out a CAI US made p-grip for a DSA US made p-grip? Doesn't make sense. I'm guessing it is a kit rifle built on a CAI imported receiver. Pictures would help a lot. I'd like to see if the buttpad is a CAI or Steyer type. Muzzle device? Handguards? Charging handle? Gas piston (is there a seam, i.e. two piece)? Also, get a pic of the front of the trigger where it emerges from the lower. A well lit close up pic of the side of the receiver might help as well, as the quality of the finish might help. Byron