Legal: the California FAL

[motoman97]

First off, I have been cruising the board, like the place and must say many of you are very knowledgable.
What I need to know is this: is it legal to build/have a FAL. How does it have to be built, can i have it belt fed.
Are there any CA Falaholics out there who can give me the 411 on this fine rifle.
Thanks
moto

[tony549]

A California FAL can be built. DSA offers one version. It must be assembled in compliance with Federal and State laws:-
-Fixed ten round magazine
-Top cover with clip slot
-7 US made parts
-No flash hider, grenade launcher, or bayonet lug.

As for belt feed... ...no way.

[motoman97]

Thanks for the info. I guess I will just ahve to wait till I move somewhere besides the Golden state. Thanks again. Its hard to get any info about anything in CA, most mom and pop gun shops have gone under and the idiots at Big 5 don't know their asses from an aperture.
moto

[AP]

Hey Moto..I too am behind the Kali curtain but was able to get my "toys" before all the BS laws! you can check out www.entreprise.com to see what they have available to KA residents. Also I think Mark at ARS has been offering a KA FAL version. DSAs KA version is interesting but $$$$$!!

[motoman97]

AP, The real pisser is the fact that you can get an Imbel receiver in cali, but it just isn't any fun without the good stuff. I live about 20 min from dealers wharehouse and good ol Ravvi. Now if that isn't just a kick you in the teeth, spit on your grave $h!tty situation I don't know what is.
moto
My area lost another gun shop the other day, that makes 3 in 4 months. Wana get out of this crappy place ASAP

[ November 22, 2001: Message edited by: moto ]

[young8to5]

I also wonder if a pre-ban Imbel receiver can exempt from the AW law of Kali ?

[AriesFN]

Tony's info is right on. Though I do belive 1919's are still legal in CA but getting the belts is another story.

By the way Motoman where abouts are you ? I'm up 20 min north of Modesto. Stockton Gun and Modesto Gun are good people if you need a gun shop to go to. Mike does an excellent job at putting FALS together.

-Aries

[Gremper]

If you live in the Peoples Republic you are real close to God's Country (Arizona/Nevada). Come on over and welcome!

[torque65]

At least you don't live in Illinois. If they have their way, you might be stuck with a Daisy Red Ryder at best!
What would the penalty be if, say, a guy was to procure his non-Cali FAL somewhere out-of state and bring it home? Pardon my ignorance, but I live in MN where we don't have TOO many restrictions on that.
>A stupid one that was in the works was: requiring a state Permit to Acquire a Handgun if your rifle / shotgun had a pistol grip.<
Cheez-N-Rice!

[OODA_Loop]

deleted

[MatT3T4]

Well here is another question to you all from a newbie:

If I were to order an FN-FAL bag-o-parts from Tapco, I have been told that all I need is a receiver to complete the rifle. Then I have to get the 10 round magazine pinned in place, effectively making it a non-detachable magazine. Is this legal to assemble in CA? Will I have problems registering it in this form?

Thanks in advance.

[hawk1]

Registering? California only requires dealer record of sale. Basically, either you are prohibited or not. They do not "register" long guns to your name. An Assault weapon is different and is registered in your name. The FAL would need to be either pinned magazine or NO pistol grip, as well as, the compliance parts, and lose the flash suppressor. Instead of a "bag of parts" from tapco, go to DSA website and get STG58K, then over to Dealer warehouse and get the "California legal" Embel gear logo upper receiver. Can get your FSE compliance parts from many on this board. Have Fun!

[jim1of6]

Mat,

Plenty of FAL's in CaliBAN. I built three and on my way to building two more. Just keep it legal!

Jim

[gobabygo]

I believe you can go 2 ways to make a CA legal FAL. Either keep the detachable mag and remove the pistol grip and flash suppressor (and keep it over 30") OR you can fix a 10 round mag.

And the only thing that you will be registering is the receiver. You don't need to register it again after you build it.

You can read all about the fun KA laws here:

http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/forms/pdf/cfl.pdf
http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/forms/pdf/awguide.pdf

[NagantNut]

I live in Kalifornia too. I built an Imbel/Imbel 18" carbine with a fixed mag and no muzzle device. I have two more kits I want to build but I am getting a little worried. The Cal assault weapons ban banned rifles by name and rifles that are otherwise identical regardless of what name is applied to them. Is a fixed mag FAL essentially identical to a detachable mag version? Why is it only the FAL receivers are legal to buy in Kali? Why not AR receivers or AK receivers? If you take the pistol grip off an AR its no longer an assault weapon according to the most recent Kali assault weapon ban.

How does the FAL receiver not match the criteria of being a "copy cat"? It is in all ways identical to a "pre-ban" receiver and the FAL is specifically listed on the banned list.

[hawk1]

Fixed magazine/no pistol grip takes it out of the Cal AW catagory. It would be the same as a DPMS and others that sell their "fixed magazine" AR15's. I think you're trying to read more into it. You can take a kit and make it legal or illegal, you would be one that decides which it will ultimately be.

[gobabygo]

As I understand it (and I'm no expert) there are actually 2 laws that apply to assault weapons in this state. In my previous post, I only mentioned the general characteristics law (SB23) of banned assault rifles.

You're right though, there is also the Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act which specifically banned certain weapons by specific make and model number. As it pertains here, it named the Fabrique Nationale FAL, LAR, FNC, 308 Match and Sporter.

What you're thinking about is part of Roberti-Roos that applied a ban on the AK and AR-15 series. The series language since 2000 includes all other similar models regardless of the manufacturer. Again however, this only applies to the AKs and AR-15s.

If you don't have a Roberti-Roos assault weapon, you still need to comply with the general characteristics (SB23) and federal law.

So the reason why it's legal to build a FAL here in California is because we are not building a Fabrique Nationale FAL, we are building an Imbel/Entreprise/Coonan/DSA FAL, and that important distinction gets us past Roberti-Roos, regardless of the fact that the receiver may or may not be identical to an FN.

Oh, and the fixed mag AR-15 (FAB10) has gotten a letter from the CA Attorney General giving it a qualified ok.

[hawk1]

gobabygo da' man!

[REDHORSE]

California FAL info:

DIY Mag catch: http://www.webshooters.org/diy_california_fal.htm

Stripper clip cover: http://www.webshooters.org/diy_g1_st...p_topcover.htm

[Carp Killer]

What you're thinking about is part of Roberti-Roos that applied a ban on the AK and AR-15 series. The series language since 2000 includes all other similar models regardless of the manufacturer. Again however, this only applies to the AKs and AR-15s.

I thought that the "series" part of the law was shot down by the courts last year. Some thing about only the Assembly and Senate can write law, not the Attorney General. But most FFL's in the state don't want to be the ones to test that change in the law. Also the DOJ has been dragging their feet on rewriting the law to reflect that court ruling. The law is very poorly written, and they are screwed. Of course they could just ignore the courts and continue to to do what ever they want. Despots have a hard time letting go of power.

[hawk1]

I'd like to see some writing on that. I think my FFL would be willing to give it a go

[Carp Killer]

Litigation Victories

Lawsuit - Harrot v. Kings County
Issue - Which firearms does the California Department of Justice refer to under the 1991 Amendments to the 1989 "Assault Weapon" Control Act?
Ruling - The ruling handed down on June 28, 2001 states that the DOJ must give notice of specifically what firearms are AK or AR "series" guns. Eliminates confusion over AK and AR "series" guns.
CRPA Involvement - Filed an amicus brief in the case.


There is still more to this case. That would explain why FFL's are holding off for now. But as long as the receiver is not on the DOJ list, well, you and your FFL make that decision. Maybe take a wait and see. Don't ya just love Kali gun laws.

[RKM]

I dont think there has been any new allowable transfers as a result of that court ruling. The series classification is so vague it could make anybody a crimminal and thats why it was struck down as I understand it. One day cali might once again become part of the US.


Redhorse has the best do it your self advice, He really knows his stuff. Entreprise and DSA both are making cali legal FALs using the same principle. check their websites.

[orgdnr]

Hello, newby here. Misery loves company and I also live in Khalistan.I currently own a fal,however it was sent out of state for safe storage.Im going to have it sent to entreprise for a Khalistan conversion in two weeks.
I am also a member/ supporter of the Uzi talk forum and posted a thread re: Legal in Ca, for the Uzi.
Does anyone on this board know if section 12276 (f) of the Ca. penal code over shadows 12276.5 that allows an assult weapon in .22lr?
I called DOJ and they said NO!!!(after 7 days of calls) however they also would not send me a letter to that fact,stating that he(Nate) would rather keep this to a phone conversation. It makes me think that there is a loop hole in there stupid law, but they don't want me( the people) to exploit it.
Any help here would be greatly appreciated.....

[.308 for life]

It does apply to .22. That is why you cant have a tech-22(INTRATEC). This state sucks!!!!!!!!!!!
It is the same with all calibers.

[RKM]

You can have any 22 rifle because it is written about centerfire rifles, the law about pistols doesn't exempt 22s or any rimfires. I had to reg my calico 22 pistol but not my rifle.

[.308 for life]

so can we have the calico .22 carbine or the American 180 .22

[jim1of6]

So. CaliBAN FAL owner here! I was at Turners Outdoorsman the other day and they were selling a AR type look-a-like in .22. I asked about it and he took the mag out and said because it was .22 it was A-OK!

[Carp Killer]

they were selling a AR type look-a-like in .22.

Sad, very sad.

[.308 for life]

Did you go to the Turners in fountain valley?

[Richard64]

Those who bought a DSA sa58 california version,recieve a DOJ letter stating the SA58 california version was not a violation?
I'm interested in building one in this manner and would like to aquire a copy of the letter(private info excluded), to cover my ass in light of what there ruling was on the ROBAR m96,thanks.

[young8to5]

Well. One more NO NO. Don't ever bring any 20 rounders pass the state line. Otherwise, a jail cell is waiting for your arrival!

[Claudius]

Originally posted by young8to5
Well. One more NO NO. Don't ever bring any 20 rounders pass the state line. Otherwise, a jail cell is waiting for your arrival!

I'm curious about something. Since grandfathered high capacity magazines in Commiefornia aren't serial numbered or registered, how are they supposed to prove you brought them in past the cutoff date, if you were to do so? Isn't this law totally unenforceable unless they basically catch you red handed bringing them across the state line? I mean, once you're inside the state with them how could they possibly prove you didn't have them in Commiefornia before the cutoff date if you were to tell them you did? Just curious. I'm not thinking of doing anything illegal, as I would sooner jump into a sewer than ever set foot across the Colorado.

[Bladewurk]

Well........,Ca DOJ just returned my RA M96 Recon,which they had seized and told me was an unregistered assault weapon.They were all smiles when they returned it,they said it was legal"gray area" but they "will not be issuing letters"concerning the legality.I am awaiting the letters of correspondence between DOJ supervisors and Attorney Chuck Michele clarifying the language in the law.When the DOJ Special Agents seized my rifle I asked them about the FAL.They told me a standard FAL was illegal because of the ability to accept a grip but I believe they were mistaken there also.IMHO,If you do possess an unmodified FAL I would never possess a grip,attached or not.He told me fixed mag FAL was okay.FWIW.Regards,Phil

[TonyMontana]

Somebody was telling me that it is quite easy to change the Kali FAL to accept detachable mags (Is this true?) but would the brass still come out the top or do you have to modify that. Please excuse me if this has been asked before but I just fell in love with the FAL's last week so I am total Noob to the FAL (And I couldn't find this in the archives)... Plus if I wanted to mount a scope to a Kali version, would the brass coming out wreck the scope? Your responses are appreciated. Damn, I hate this state....

[sslocal]

In order - Yes, no, welcome, and no.

[TonyMontana]

Thanks SSLOCAL.

Is there anyone in the San Diego area that would like to invite me shooting (FAL?) I will pay for food and ammo, purty please? I would like to pop my cherry before I buy one.

[kaiserworks]

TonyMontana,
sorry, don't have a loner-FAL for you to test drive but I do have several CA-DSA's in my shop; congo, standard w/walnut furniture & standard w/black plastic furniture. Tapco makes top-feed cover scope mount. Yes the CA FAL can be converted back to regular mags in case of emergency or if you move to a gun friendly area.

AriesFN,
semi auto 1919's are indeed legal in Kalistan, I have a 1919a6 (.308) on the shelf right now, it comes with 250 disintegrating links. See link of map to my San Diego store:
http://www.socalgun.com/KM_Map.htm
-Greg
www.thekaiserworks.com

[TonyMontana]

Kaiser

Thanks for the reply. Your Kaiserworks site looks like they aren't legal in Cali, I mean Kali but those weapons sure look pretty. I actually held my first (and only) FAL in your shop so I will probably get it from you guys.. I'm not sure if you are the one I talked too but the gentlemen there gave me a link to several sites when I left (you guys were closing). I was looking at the 21" bull model on DSA's site. Free floating HG's and a bipod. It is quite expensive so it will take me a month or so to save my pennies but I am getting this before worthless Diane Finestein takes it away from me... Can you put free floating HG's and a bipod on your congo? Other than the chrome lining, is there much of a differnce in the two (bull and Congo)? If we need to take this conversation off line, please feel free to call me at 858-688-1626 or email at tmcqueen@san.rr.com.

Thank you
Tim

[kaiserworks]

Tim,
I believe DSArms builds rifles as they recieve orders except for their most basic / popular models which they keep on hand. If you want a configuration that you don't see in the catalog, they should be able to put one together thats Kali compliant, you'll just have a longer wait for it. Your right, my FAL lower will not work on a Kali model FAL.
-Greg
www.thekaiserworks.com

[battlecyborg]

I know this is an old thread, but I had a newb question as well. I recently aquired a Cali converted FAL which has the 10 round fixed mag. What is the loading procedure for this? The gun is not in my hands yet as it is still in the process of transfer.

Are there any precautions I should be aware of at the range that people will ask me about? I have never fired large caliber rifles at the range before other than testing some AKs at a Las Vegas range a while back.

Thanks in advance.

[saigasaurus]

Just to add a little for CA people coming to this thread late...

The link for the California FAL (www.webshooters.org/diy_california_fal.htm) is dead, but you can still get to an archived version of the page through archive.org:

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://...fornia_fal.htm

[thedrickel]

There is now a better solution:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=56741

The law requires you to use a tool to detach the mag. Use of a tool is not required to ATTACH one.

[H. Nipps]

Buy all the components you need for a complete rifle, including the 10rd. mag and a modified magazine release. Send it to Entreprise arms or find a FAL files member from CA who is willing to help you do a CA legal build. They are fun regardless of the silly laws. The best part is that you can un-convert them if you ever move to a free state.

As as has already been mentioned, check out www.calgunsl.net for all the information you need. Enjoy.

[superjc]

As soon as we pay off my wife's debt (I had none when we got married) I'm saving to get the hell out of this place. I live in Sacramento, and own the only two decent rifles legally for sale SA M1A NM and Ruger Mini 14. My wife is from Ukraine so she already has experience fleeing communist countries!

An off the shelf Cali legal fal will set you back at LEAST $1500 from what I've seen.

[gunplumber]

problem is individual county DAs are not obligated to follow the DOJ interpretation, nor ATF's definitions.

One friend paid $20K in legal fees to have CA admit that an HK trigger group was not a machinegun, a firearm, or a conversion part. The same thing ATF told them day #1.

Another friend had the FAL fixed 10 round mag (set screw) with TAPCO stripper top covers rifles that I built for him confiscated as "illegal assault weapons". Took almost a year and thousands in attorney fees to get them back.

Another had his sar 4800 .223 receiver chopped in half before the DA considered his 30 round mag was pre-2000.

And y'all wonder why vendors are hesitant to do ANY business with the PRK?

[Carp Killer]

Originally posted by gunplumber
problem is individual county DAs are not obligated to follow the DOJ interpretation, nor ATF's definitions.

One friend paid $20K in legal fees to have CA admit that an HK trigger group was not a machinegun, a firearm, or a conversion part. The same thing ATF told them day #1.

Another friend had the FAL fixed 10 round mag (set screw) with TAPCO stripper top covers rifles that I built for him confiscated as "illegal assault weapons". Took almost a year and thousands in attorney fees to get them back.

Another had his sar 4800 .223 receiver chopped in half before the DA considered his 30 round mag was pre-2000.

And y'all wonder why vendors are hesitant to do ANY business with the PRK?

Do you have any evidence of the Kali DOJ or any state law enforcement going after someone outside of the state borders? All the examples seem to have occured inside the border.

And is the Kali state so powerful that it's laws are binding on the citizens of free states or maybe the free people are scared of the Kali DOJ? Just wondering.

[Bladewurk]

There is alot of misinformation and outdated info here,
if you want a FAL in Cali best deal right now is Enterprise complete Imbel kitted rifles from Enterprise in Irwindale California!

They have a Christmas special $899. I think. They will build it however you want and you can pick it up or they'll send to any FFL knowledgeable enough to accept it
They also have AK receivers and do all the Evil Cali builds no problem!

The situation in Cali has changed ALOT in the past 2 years, many test cases and open sales going on during DOJ audits!..

Thanks to all the pioneers who read the law and were not scared by DOJ Tactics!

I was one of those who had late night visits,threats and confiscations by DOJ but conformed to the law...

[Bladewurk]

Enterprise SALE Link!

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=74447

[gatsby]

Originally posted by Bladewurk
Well........,Ca DOJ just returned my RA M96 Recon,which they had seized and told me was an unregistered assault weapon.They were all smiles when they returned it,they said it was legal"gray area" but they "will not be issuing letters"concerning the legality.I am awaiting the letters of correspondence between DOJ supervisors and Attorney Chuck Michele clarifying the language in the law.When the DOJ Special Agents seized my rifle I asked them about the FAL.They told me a standard FAL was illegal because of the ability to accept a grip but I believe they were mistaken there also.IMHO,If you do possess an unmodified FAL I would never possess a grip,attached or not.He told me fixed mag FAL was okay.FWIW.Regards,Phil

Just out of curiosity... how did they sieze your rifle? Does someone turn you in from seeing it at the range, or from a gunsmith, or do they just swat team into your home at night and demand to see your guns?

I live in a 'free' state (Iowa) so how things work out in DPRK baffle/scare me.