Recommended lower for retro AR

[ratas calientes]

I will soon have most of the parts to build a retro AR-15 A1. What would be the recommended lower receiver? I am considering one of the Nodak Spud A1 lowers. Any comments or other recommendations?

[Malikovski]

NDS is your only option. Fortunately they are very good.

If you search my old posts on the retro forum on AR15.com, you'll find pics of their lowers paired with surplus uppers. Color match is good, but not perfect.

[perryturner]

I used to have an Eagle A1 lower that was gray. You might could find one at AR15.com.

[SHARPSHOOTER]

+1 for NDS , Mike and Harlan are the go to guys on this gig.

They make all 3 variants. A1, XM16E1 and 601 .

[whirlibird]

Here's an interesting read.

Retro AR receiver

This may also help:
AR Data

[Lon Moer]

Another +1 for the NDS Retro receivers. I went with the XM lower.

[Malikovski]

Another great info site:

www.retroblackrifle.com

It's pretty easy to find parts to do a 604 or evan an XM177E2 (I've done both). Starts to get harder if you want to do a 601 or 607.

Also, you really should check out the retro forum on AR15.com.

Don't let the general forum on there scare you off. The guys on the retro side are a different breed, much more like the folks around here.

[ratas calientes]

Any good reason to nut just us an A2 lower? I am just not that familiar with all of the subtle variations.

[vmtz]

Originally posted by ratas calientes
Any good reason to nut just us an A2 lower? I am just not that familiar with all of the subtle variations.

I just used a Stag lower on my Retro build.


Vince

[Malikovski]

Originally posted by ratas calientes
Any good reason to nut just us an A2 lower? I am just not that familiar with all of the subtle variations.

Uh, because it wouldn't be very retro if you did that?

Most of the differences are subtle (at least between full fence lowers), but A2 lowers are black. A1 uppers are grey. Fugly combination.

Unless you use an A2 upper as well, but then you're really running out of retro fast...

[ratas calientes]

Originally posted by vmtz


I just used a Stag lower on my Retro build.


Vince

Yeah, but my retro has to be better than yours.

[perryturner]

Originally posted by ratas calientes
Any good reason to nut just us an A2 lower? I am just not that familiar with all of the subtle variations.

Different radius under the front pivot, and the A2 extension (where you screw in the buffer tube) is a little longer.

I don't really know anything about retro builds. But what is an AR-15 A1? The original ones bought by the Air Force? I don't think they would be A1s. That's military revision nomenclature. SP-1? If so, it doesn't have a mag fence. M16A1?

[Malikovski]

Originally posted by perryturner
I don't really know anything about retro builds. But what is an AR-15 A1? The original ones bought by the Air Force? I don't think they would be A1s. That's military revision nomenclature. SP-1? If so, it doesn't have a mag fence. M16A1?

Check out the site I posted above. It goes into detail (with lots of pics to illustrate) on all the variations, rifle and carbine. Interesting stuff even if you don't build one.

Here are my retro black rifles, both on NDS lowers and USGI uppers:

[Itchingforaninchpattern]

There were also some early Bushmaster lower receivers that had the A1 styling, but they are probably hard to find.
The Nodak Spud A1 lowers are excellent and I recommend them. I built an A1 reproduction with it and it is a top notch semi auto copy of the 603. I also picked up an Xm16E1 lower and that too is excellent. Your only problem will be finding the right parts for the lower, like a non-notched selector/safety and properly finished components (hammer/trigger pins, mag and bolt release, etc.). I do believe that there are sources on ARF.com that can get the manganese phosphating color for you on the parts.

[SHARPSHOOTER]

Just like building a FAL rats some want the right reciever for the job.

As for the A1 lower as opposed to the A2. The A2 was product improved in the Areas that the A1 was known to fail in. The front pivot pin holes were thickened to reduce cracking in that area, the rear was built up around the buffer tube ring was thickened for the same reasons. Additionally the A2 is a bit thicker than an A1. Other differences include the partial fence which first appeared on Model 602 rifles and was used on all rifles untill the full fence was introduced. The thing is if I want to build a Model 604 clone and I want it correct depending on which year I am building I will want a partial fence and not a full fence, I will want a a bcb with no fa notches and for a 604 I want a slick side upper. I may want a tri point fh or I may want an A1 bird cage fh again depending on the year. Were I building a 601 or 602 I would a slick side lower with no fence and the right mag release button and bolt release and YES they are different. Same thing with the buffer, depending on the rifle you need an edgewater buffer, etc etc etc. It is just as varied and detailed as FAL can be and can be just as Expensive. There are lots more details and tons of research that can be looked at for me to cover here. Another thing.

THe A2 is Black and the A1 is Grey is just not true. Some A2 rifles are black some are Grey. Most Colts are Grey.

Originally posted by ratas calientes
Any good reason to nut just us an A2 lower? I am just not that familiar with all of the subtle variations.

[Douglas S Graham]

Hope you aren't a lefty , like I am. No speed bump=brass hitting head!! Not fun!!

[vmtz]

Originally posted by Douglas S Graham
Hope you aren't a lefty , like I am. No speed bump=brass hitting head!! Not fun!!

I am and had that problem. Solution, Bushmaster A1 upper, It has the brass deflector, A1 sights and teardrop forward assist.


Vince

[Lon Moer]

Originally posted by vmtz


I am and had that problem. Solution, Bushmaster A1 upper, It has the brass deflector, A1 sights and teardrop forward assist.


Vince

That would be a C7 upper receiver.
Basically an A2 upper with an A1 sight.

And, just for fun; what is an A1, A2, A3 or A4?

[yellowcarbon]

Tactics LLC in Tempe, AZ also did a limited run of the retro recievers. They offered a partial and no mag release fence models. I went with the Tactics lower for several reasons. First, they came out before the NDS recievers did. Secondly, they are local so it was easier to get my hands on one.

Tactics only did a limited run of the recievers. So they no longer have any of them. So unless you can find one used, NDS is the way to go.

[villafuego]

The right lower for yer retro AR build is just like the right receiver for your FAL build.....using an A2/ Modern lower would be like spending years tracking down T-48 parts, then building it on a Type-3 from Century!

For Model 601/602's, the NDS lower is definitely the way to go.
For Model 603's (XM16E1), and early 604's/609's, the NDS or Tactics lower works well.
For late 603's (M16A1), 629's (XM177's), early PWA lowers, Sendra, and SGW's are good if you can find one.....although NDS makes a nice A1 lower as well.

Here is my 601 on an SGW/Palmetto (still looking for the proper mag release button) :

607 on a SGW / Palmetto:

XM16E1 (603) on a DPMS lower (modified to proper specs)....

and a 629 (XM177E2) on PWA:

[Steelcore_7.62]

We in the Air Farce still are using A1s for range guns and probably some are still getting deployed in one variation or another. Hell, I didn't get to shoot an M16 with forward assist and round handguards until around 1994!

I don't imagine that they surplus much of the old parts...maybe some old "red-hat" armorers are building up some nice, authentic, retro rigs somewhere. I think I could really get drawn into that retro vein of the "black rifle." I should not have clicked that link

Cheers,
Darrell