K-31 SWISS LOAD INFO

[DYNOMIKE]

Trying to get some Loads developed for my K-31's, any and all wanting to share please feel free to do so..
There is some VERY good info in this thread here:

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showt...5&pagenumber=1

However we are getting into some pretty specific Load data and info so I thought I would start a NEW thread in this Forum to make it easier to find and possibly more accessible to others..

Shootist~
O.K. I have made a NEW Tool and it worked MUCH BETTER this time..
I now have an OAL on rifle #1 of 2.805" to the Lands..
Taking your .005" Crush into consideration I want to back this OAL off by .015" "IF" I want .010" off the Lands, is that correct?

Rifle #2 has an OAL of 2.795" using the Same criteria and Bullet I will take the same 15 Thou off that OAL..
(I have not tried the Other two YET, but will soon..)

Just so we are on the Same Page there is a NOTABLE difference in the Bullet themselves VS. these and the One I used on my last attempt..

The NOSLER I used last time averages 1.180" in Length..
The SIERRA I am using NOW shows a Measured average of 1.165"

Would this not make my OAL show a Variance since I am measuring from the Base of the Cartridge to the Bullet Point?
"IF" I am thinking right this in itself would certainly show that .015" wouldn't it??

Thanks for your Help..
Hey Temp, what you into tonight??

[shootist87122]

Mike,

That all sounds correct except I'm not sure I follow what you are saying about the variance caused by measuring both the bullet and the brass? Both are in the reloading press at the same time so any variance in the brass should be canceled out.

Twere me, and I wanted to test 'em seated all the way out (a good place to start), I'd load and few at 2.790 and try in both rifles. But first, as an additional test, I would seat another one in the "dummy" (not to be confused with Temp) with the dummy COL at 2.790 and chamber check it again. If not driven any deeper in rifle #2 you should be good to go.

It would be handy to have one load that works in both rifles so try there first (IMO). Maybe a little jump in Rifle #1 VS no jump in Rifle # 2 will tell you something.

Joe

[DYNOMIKE]

Sorry, I thought I was making it more difficult than needed..
My reference to VARIANCE is ONLY intended to show the Difference caused by the "BULLETS" length.. NOT the Brass, does that make sense??

I understand the Test for Rifle #2.. I actually have TWO Dummy Rounds made up so I can just use the One from #1, and try it in #2..
YES~ I very much agree that having a Load I can use in BOTH will be ideal..

[shootist87122]

Mike,

Yeah, I finally understand what you are saying, but I have a hard time believing the two bullet types are the same weight (I could sure be wrong, however).

The bullet's ogive determines the max COL and how deep it must be seated in the case. The GP11's ogive is way way back (long skinny sucker) compared to most US bullets. I think the Swiss designed the bullet first then built a chamber around it. Just remember that the max COL has to be determined separately for each type/brand/weight of bullet you use.

http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles...oat_angles.htm

The bullet you showed in the other thread sure seemed fat - all the way to the tip. Weight that dude and see if it isn't heavier than you think.

Joe

[shootist87122]

That's cause this is the WECSOG channel.

[owlcreekok]

Originally posted by shootist87122
That's cause this is the WECSOG channel.

No, I ain't gonna dredge up the neck sizing Swiss food deal.

I don't remember the OAL, but it's moot for you guys since you can't easily get any of the bullets. (unless I give some to ya)

I have very few 7.5 x 55 boxer cases. Thirty nine of them to be exact (Port). My load is for a 170 gr cast that measures .307" - .3085", gas checked of course. Slow was going to chrono some for me a coupla weeks ago, but old dumbazz Owl forgot and shot em all before we could.

Anyway, I am running 29 grs of 3031 under them, primed with my usual WLR's.

Last trip, I held it hard and tried hard to see the bull and the front post as best I could. These loads were grouping really nicely. As tight as the GP 11 I was handed to play with (thanks perryturner). Understandably the GP 11 groups were a few clicks higher on the paper than my cast rounds. Well, quite a bit higher. Happily, the cast pellets were in the score zone at 100 with the same sight elevation as the GP 11.

No leading has been noted. I get none on the brushes or patches during cleaning and am not seeing any little spots down the bore. This can be misleading so I will not SWEAR these bullets (18 bhn) are NOT leaving traces. I will either order a 30 cal Lewis tip or make one soon. THAT will tell the tale.

There is a lot of space left in the case with that load. I am unsure as to what I think of that at this point. I've only shot just over 40 of them so far.

At the price of components these days, I plan to do a lot of shooting cast bullets in the future . kycrawler is reporting 20 bhn on quenched casts in another thread. If I can get up to that, I can drive cast up a little hotter than I am now. I might even try them in a gas rifle again. I have two .30 cal molds and am looking at buying a third in the 200 gr class. Maybe 190. Haven't settled on a design yet. I like a lot of driving bands and one of my present ones has little in this department. This is giving me pause.

Lemme STFU now.

[shootist87122]

Mike,

Don't you need gas checks to shoot hard cast in a rifle? I used 'em in a .357 target pistola for IMSHA steel years ago and that took care of leading (@ ~1,200 fps, IIRC) in that instance. I had a source for ready made gas checked extra hard cast bullets at the time, however.

Maybe keep one rifle for cast and another for jacketed.

[homelandprotector]

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting...ing1/index.asp

[owlcreekok]

All my cast rifle bullets are gas checked. Without a gas check, you would have to run the bullet so slow it would be pointless (in my opinion).

When I shot IHMSA, I used gas checked in everything, even .44 mag. I wish I had that .44 mold back.

[shootist87122]

10-4 OWL (An I'm deeply sorry I called you "Mike").

I wish I had my old 11 3/8" S&W Target back. The 192 grain GC hard cast I used (with bunches of W296) did a good job on the 200 Yd Rams, btw; even though it was a "wimp" gun.

[owlcreekok]

Dynomyke owes you $5 for the character boost.

I have a letter into the club board of directors, asking for a steel target range. My offer to furnish a full set of T1 steel silouettes is all I could offer to sweeten the pot. All I hope to get is a rule change to allow shooting steel on one of the new sets of lanes. I doubt it will be able to support an IHMSA style shoot. If I can play with "Turkey Eggs" at 200m with my K31 & cast pellets I promise to STFU.

[DYNOMIKE]

HEY, HEY Please don't let that happen again Joe..
All we need is the OLD OWL Dreamin about bein Like MIKE..

O.K. Back on track here.. Range trip with the NEW Loading was dissapointing at BEST.. At 50 Yds I had Three shots Touching after the FIRST Two went High by about 3" I guess.. MAY be the Barrel wants to be Warm, MAY be it needed some Fouling so I tried the SAME load at 100 Yds and would be Hard pressed to call what I got a GROUP..
MY Eyes aint Great but I can do better than that on almost any day so I think it was the Gun and NOT me..
In fact I had Much better groups with the MOD-44, and my VZ-24..
Although the MOD-44 HIGH?? I was able to shoot about a 4" Group, the MAUSER Gave me my Best of the day at 2"..

I loaded for the K-31 using TWO powder Charges, one 2 Gr More than the Other with everything else the Same.. I chose Not to try this load but will the Next time..

I had some of the 4350 Left so I tried three other Bullets and seated them OUT there a Bit to try out in the ISHY Enfield.. Will shoot them next trip as well..

OH and BTW, I did WEIGHT those Bullets.. They Are indeed 165 Grainers..

[shootist87122]

Mike,

These two loads shoot very good in a couple of my K-31s.
150 Hornady SST
COL to almost touch the lands (~.005 or so off the WECSOG Max COL),
45.1 Grains H414
Standard Primer (I use the Fed 210 Match cause I have a bunch).
Shoots near MOA with #1 rifle (was scoped for testing).



150 Hornady FMJ
COL backed off the lands .012" to .025" depending on which rifle (I load the same length and use in both rifles).
45.1 Grains H414
Standard Primer
Shoots 5 shots (with the Irons) @ 2" and under at 100 Yds in both rifles.

Joe

[DYNOMIKE]

Thanx!!
Looks like an 8 Pounder of H-414 is on my List.. I have used that powder a Lot in the Past and have ALWAYS had excellent Luck with it..

Man I need to decide WHICH Scope to put on one of these??
I have been dickin around with that Little Project for a Year, just gotta get one and put it on.. I've been Procrastinating..

[shootist87122]

Originally posted by DYNOMIKE


Man I need to decide WHICH Scope to put on one of these?? Procrastinating..

Leupold's 3x9x33 Compact is what I used for load development. (About $220 a few years ago.) Worked well and is now on my Po' Boy Tactical FAL. A 2x7 would be dandy also. I still have the no gun smiffin' St Marie offset mount and rings (Grafs sells), I'll peddle to ya (or loan). A K-31 mount has to be offset to the right (or left) due to the vertical ejection - or something that fits in front of the receiver.

[DYNOMIKE]

Hell I've had the Mount ( St Marie) and Rings (MILLET) for some Time now, just gotta git me a SCOPE..
I have tossed around the Idea of the Budget scopes a Hundred times but just can't pull the Trigger on one not really KNOWING if it will be worth a CHIT Ya know?
The LEUPOLD would be an Excellent choice and I have a VXII 3 X 9 here I could use but then I have to decide what to put back in it's stead on the COLT H/BAR?
TOO Many Questions I guess, I'll just have to figure it out..
The Scope on the AR would be good IF It's NOT TO LONG I suppose and I HATE the Ugly ass B-SQUARE Mount on the COLT Anywho..
Hmmm Maybe I need to do some More research..

[owlcreekok]

Bump to get the Swiss threads together.

There is some good load data in the brass-dies thread just posted.

We'll have a good time with these two threads.

[owlcreekok]

Grumble grumble grumble

I KNOW I saw a charge weight for 4895 some dang where. Here I am all moist to load up a few jacketed 147 FMJ's for my Swiss and no recipe.

More beer.

THAT, by cracky, is the answer.