Gas regulator question....

[EMSflyer]

While re-zeroing my Aimpoint on the FAL, I decided to
adjust the gas regulator.

I wanted to reduce the distance the empty cases were being launched, from a low earth orbit, to something more conducive to recovery and re-loading.

I discovered that my FAL will still run 100% with the regulator
all the way open. That would be with the small gas hole on top of gas tube
completely uncovered by the gas regulator nut.

I was using the Winchester white box 7.62 NATO (Q3130?) and it was about 90 F outside and 700' MSL.

This is a good thing, right?

Shoot safe,

Flyer

[brownknees]

Maybe.

If its indicating a good tight gas system, then it's a good thing. If it is telling you your recoil springs are weak then its not such a good thing.

I'd say if everything is working correctly then its a good thing as you'll have lots of adjustment for different loads, or lotsa lotsa dirt building up when shooting for extended periods.

[EMSflyer]

I don't have a chrono but maybe the Winchester ammo is really hot loaded?

I did'nt think about the recoil springs being weak however!

Is there a way to determine strength of recoil springs without removing them?

Brownknees, At the gunshow today I was tempted to buy a SUIT but did'nt have the cash. I really liked it however. I was remembering your work with the cams as I looked it over. Wish money was not so tight right now.

Thanks for the reply,

Flyer

[brownknees]

I don't have a chrono but maybe the Winchester ammo is really hot loaded?

A chrono may not give you the answer either. It's a question of how much gas pressure exists as the gas port is uncovered, not the total amount. The techspeak term is "port pressure".
This is caused by the rate at which the powder burns, more so that how much total gas is producerd. You could (thoeretically) have a low velocity round with a high port pressure!

You could try a different brand of ammo & see if it changes the gas setting to just cycle the rifle, one box should do it.

As for testing the springs there is one thing you could try.
If you can get access to a different FAL then you could use weights, or a spring balance to pull the bolt/carrier back on both rifles with the hammer pre-cocked.
This will give you a reading on how much spring tension exists on two different rifles. It won't be absolutely accurate but it should show up any major differences.

*Blah! Blah! Blah! Lawyerspeak disclaimer.... Make darn sure the rifles are unloaded befor trying this!!!*

[Bo Heck]

with the georgia-arms reloads that i shoot, i can run my regulator all the way open with it cycling reliably 95% of the time. this practically lays the brass gently right outside the gun. i closed it just a few clicks to get rid of the 5% of rounds that did not feed or eject or the bolt not being held open at the end of a mag. now it launches them about 6 or 7 feet, just from 2 or 3 clicks. its no big deal, if i wanted them to fall 3 inches out of the gun i guess i should have gotten a bolt action.

[mosbysmen]

if you dont know how old your springs are , i would spend the 25 bucks and replace every spring in the gun .
it is a good way to keep your gun trouble free

[Radio]

I had an unpleasant experience with my Colt Commander due to a weak firing pin spring. Replace 'em.

--Radio

[EMSflyer]

I do have new springs in the fire control group and a new firing pin spring.

The recoil springs do not feel the least bit weak when you cycle the gun by hand
so it's hard to say. I doubt you can tell by the way it feels when you pull the bolt back anyhow.

Are there other symtoms associated with a weak set of recoil springs?

This is my 4th FAL over the years and the only one I've ever seen run with the regulator wide open. This gun has always run 100% and still does so it's hard to imagine that it's sick.

thanks,

Flyer

[W.E.G.]

Its good to have spare springs, ...and spare bolts, ...and spare barrels, ...and spare receivers

A smart fella's even gonna have spare spares - you know - for those times when you can't find your spare
- been there

There aint nothin' wrong with that rifle unless you are short on ammo or in need of practice
- them's the only things I'd worry about fixin'

[brownknees]

It sounds fine to me.
If the recoil springs are sound then you just have a good tight gas system.

[gunnut1]

My R1 does the same thing. I like it and it has a Falcon spring kit.

But tell me guys, how can having the gas port opened (less gas to the piston) all the way be an indicator of a bad recoil spring? Closed all the way (more gas) I could understand.

[brownknees]

Less gas=less force. It will need to be enough to overcome the recoil springs.
The only way to do this with weakened springs is to exert less force.

[gunnut1]

Originally posted by brownknees
Less gas=less force. It will need to be enough to overcome the recoil springs.
The only way to do this with weakened springs is to exert less force.

OK I'm thick. Explain further.

If you have less force then the springs are not going to collapse.

[W.E.G.]

Please don't confuse the terms.

The gas PORT is the hole in the barrel that lets the gas go to the REGULATOR.

The gas REGULATOR is the adjustable hole that affects how much bleed-off of gas pressure occurs.


maximum gas setting





medium gas setting





lowest gas setting

[EMSflyer]

Mine is at the lowest gas setting as depicted in your third photo.

Does not chunk the empty cases as far (6 to 10 ft.) but seems to run fine.


Thanks,

Flyer

[Radio]

The idea for reliability is, once you get good ejection and cycling, to close down the gas one click or so. This way when the rifle starts getting dirty or the moon is full or whatever you will STILL get ejection.

Conditions WILL change on you, the rifle doesn't operate in a vacuum. Well, actually, it will, but it's lonely out in Space, and Mars ain't the kind of place to raise your kids.

--Radio

[brownknees]

If you have less force then the springs are not going to collapse.

Right on. Unless they are weakened. I guess that's what I was trying to say.

[gunnut1]

GAry,
I have always considered the "adjustment nut" as the gas regulator. The hole that the gas copmes out of should be the pory sd well as the hole on the barrel.


ARE I 'tupid?

[Radio]

I don't think so, as you have managed to master the smileys that DeanP kept screwing up.