Mixed results at range with medium contour bbl?

[Scott S]

Last weekend I took a homebuilt FAL with medium contour barrel to the range to test accuracy. It's a 21" MC barrel on a DSA type I topped with a Leupold 2-7x scope. It's an indoor range, so wind speed was no factor. It was hot though, and the small bays have high tables and don't lend to getting into a comfortable, sturdy shooting position. Those are the only excuses I can make.

The one bright spot in the adventure was the new FSE HTS I installed. This is the set that FSE currently lists on their website, and it comes with reduced power hammer and sear springs. I was certain that with such a light pull the gun would double, so I started the shooting session with the requisite two-round mag. My fears were unfounded--I had no issues whatsoever. The trigger pull was a considerable improvement over the standard DSA set that was heavy and gritty. It was a light pull with just a hint of grit. It's not the equal of the Canjar on my FN-made Mauser in '06, but the FSE HTS is worth the $70 plus shipping as far as I'm concerned.

After reading one of WEG's posts about rounds per group where he advocated a manly 10-round group, I decided that I would shoot even more manly 20-round groups as rapidly as I could get on target and pull the trigger. I wanted to see how well the medium contour barrel could hold a group when hot. I think that was my mistake in my quest for accuracy.

I had the scope dialed up to 7 power, so I could see the target pretty well at its 100 yard distance, give or take a few feet. Sitting on a high stool that prevented my feet from touching the floor, I rested the rifle on a duct-tape wrapped, carpeted wooden block that the range offers as rests. I assumed as comfortable a position as I could manage given the facilities. I noticed that the scope reticle jumped a couple MOA every time my heart beat, so I had to time my shots between beats. I fired two fouling shots of Federal American Eagle ball through the clean barrel. Those two shots were well zeroed and spaced right at 2", center-to-center. I then loaded a mag full of Federal Gold Medal Match. This FGMM had tarnished cases, which struck me as somewhat odd as the boxes were in decent shape, though obviously not new. I got the ammo a couple years ago as a gift, so I'm unsure of the source. No idea if that was a factor in my group size.

The acts of acquiring the target after recoil and trying to time my shots between heart beats limited me to a pace of a shot every 5 seconds or so, except when I had to clear a couple stovepipes due to lack of gas. The barrel was pretty toasty to the touch after I finished the mag. I ran the target back to me at the line via the electric trolley, installed a new target, ran the new target downrange, loaded a mag full of handloads--150 grn Nosler BTs over Win 748 and CCI 34s, and went to town again. My pace was a little slower this mag as I really concentrated on my aim and my timing and had 2 FTEs I had to clear with the pogo method. Though the pace was by no means machine-gun fast, the excess lube in the gas block was smoking when I polished off the second mag.

Good gosh man, enough with the boring details! What are the group sizes, you ask? The Gold Medal was disappointing--5" high and slightly more than 5" wide for the 20-round "pattern". There is, however, a 14-round group that measures slightly more than 2" high by slightly less than 4.5" wide. I hope the six rounds that really opened up the group were my crappy shooting and not the accuracy of the rifle.

The reloads grouped better. There's one obvious flier that landed 2.5" below the bottom of the group. If I discount that flier, I got 19 rounds in a group a tad over 3" high by 4" wide.

I'm not thrilled with those results, because I've read here on the 'Files of folks getting 3-4" groups at 100 with irons with standard-barreled FALs. I can handle minute of bowling ball or propane tank with irons, but there's no way I can shoot a group that size at my current skill level. I just don't get to shoot as often as I like. I hoped to see more impressive results with the medium contour, but I think my shooting ability is preventing me from approaching its accuracy potential.

For my next range trip I'll slow things down a bit and concentrate on technique instead of trying to balance technique with speed. Maybe I can report better results then.

[Fn/form]

Make sure your scope, mount and rings are up to the task and TIGHT. No Wally-world rings and Simmons scope you've used for a few years.

My 16" originally shot 6" groups, and I knew my DSA mount, Armalite 1-piece base-ring combo and Burris FFII were up to the task. It went to 2" groups when I took the time to tigthen the mount in a pattern (center to outside) and made sure the rings were tight.


-josh

[Lee Carpentieri]

Theirs alot you haven't said about your home beater, who made the scope mount and rings, muzzle brake,flash hider,or plain muzzle? You said a medium contour barrel, We talking DSA MC match barrel? If so theirs a normal break in routine that has to be followed for the first 300 to 500 rounds, For every shot you have to condition the barrel with at least 10 strokes of the cleaning /bore brush followed by however many cloth cleaning patches to insure a clean bore before the next shot. Next time at the indoor range SLOW THE SHOOTING WAY DOWN as in one shot fired about every 3 minutes at MOST. Also, Try a get your self a good comfortable shooting postion. Proper breathing comes into play here as you mentioned your heart was pounding and having to time your shots with your heartbeat. Calm down before you get behind the trigger. What you have going on right now sounds more like your defeating yourself. Also like Josh said check the scope and rings and mount. You said the excess lube in the gas block was smoking when I polished off the second mag. The INSIDE OF THE gas block is to be VERY LIGHTLY LUBED, PERIOD.YOUR FAILED TO EXTRACT COULD BE DIRECTLY RELATED TO THE OVER LUBED GAS BLOCK. Let us know what happens and what you've found and corrected.

[gunplumber]

Were you expecting, becasue its heavier, that it would be more accurate? While a heavier barrel may have some advantages for puching paper, I don't find heavier barrels to be statistically more or less accurate than any standard import barrel.

I've built guns with the DSA med contour that shot 1-1.25 MOA with pet handloads, and I've built standard rifles with surplus barrels that shot just as well.

Then I've had both barrel types shoot 4 MOA

not doing anything different. A lot is the luck of the draw. the rsst is eliminating small variables and hoping . .. .

[W.E.G.]

Originally posted by Scott S
...indoor range...high tables and don't lend to getting into a comfortable, sturdy shooting position...20-round groups as rapidly as I could get on target and pull the trigger...100 yard distance...Sitting on a high stool that prevented my feet from touching the floor, I rested the rifle on a duct-tape wrapped, carpeted wooden block...the scope reticle jumped a couple MOA every time my heart beat...mag full of Federal Gold Medal...a pace of a shot every 5 seconds...I ran the target back to me at the line via the electric trolley, installed a new target, ran the new target downrange, loaded a mag full of handloads...group sizes...Gold Medal was disappointing--5" high and slightly more than 5" wide for the 20-round "pattern"...The reloads grouped19 rounds in a group a tad over 3" high by 4" wide.

Those results are right on the money for what I would have predicted under those shooting conditions.

Thanks for your thorough and forthright report.

[jaykden]

i think you need to work on your gas system some. sounds like too many FTE issues.

either close off the gas abit, or if you have to close it off too much, then drill the gas port out one size

oh, and after you mess with the gas, you have to resight in your rifle.

also, swap out bolt carriers if you have extras. my 17" bbl FAL was shooting 3.5" at 100 yrds, i swapped a bolt carrier and pulled it down to 2.5". i had brought an extra with me to the range. same ammo, no cleaning in between, just the BC change.

i has happy with the results.

[jaykden]

also, i have shot the heavier (168grn) federal gold medal .308 in the FALs, never did group very well. it always shot the same groups as the surplus ammo. i just figure the twist isn't right for the heavier rounds.

[Scott S]

Pic of the handload target. Each square is 1".

[ggiilliiee]

FTFs ...bet the bullet noses are toast after chambering ...as in flat .....your ammo is proably gun plummered all goughed up ...doesent fit well in a machined chamber ....with a brass curl coming off of it ........did ya turn the barrel between centers ...these smurfs here dont ...ther in lies the 5 inchgroups ......mine seem to do the same at 300 ..dance beer cans all over the 300 yd mark...AK also ..l1 touches holes at 100 ...sad when a mod 94 beats a fal at 100 ....oh and iwould do a bump test on your trig group ....saftey on bump it on the floor ..see if youdrop hammer ...dont wann kill someone ..theve failed this test before ....hundreds of them ..ask GP about the "why is my rifle shooting 8 feet left at 50 yds "....a wealth of knowledge there ....

[cobrasks]

My Imbel barreled FAL will put 10 rounds into 2.5
inches at 100 yards every time if I don't
pull one.Better if I really try.

18 inch cut and crowned barrel (A fellow files member cut if for me)

SA ammo .
Fairly slow fire (1 shot every 3 seconds)
Using an Eotech. (No magnification dot sight)

Also an FSE HTS set,built on a DSA Type 1.

I'd feel let down if I paid that much for a better barrel
myself.

I'd suggest shooting it in more before you worry about it.

I couldn't figure out my problem with hitting further
to one side after my rifle got heated up .
Up and down I could see,but WAY to the right ?
I F'd up originally on mine,and used lock tight red on the
barrel.
After a few times of heavy shooting,I believe some of the
lock-tite came out as I had to scrape it off the receiver.

After this the shift was gone.

I also changed to one of GPG's chromed bolt and carrier
combos and my last shot didn't wonder any more.
No more vertical stringing for me ,and that chrome will
keep that way for a VERY long time .

[gunplumber]

Ahhh - Ghillieslut, the drunken derelict who lives in a dumpster outside a machineshop, gives his wisdom on how to "line bore" something spinning "between centers".

Still waiting to be entertained by his drawing of such a phenomena.



By the way, that group (depending on how "rapidfire" it was) is really nice. I've always mocked the people who show their best 3 round group of the year. I want to see what the extreme spread of a whole magazine is going to be.


I once built a FAL that could hit a fly at 100 yards.

Can't find the thread, but it was a blue and red target paper with half a fly . . ..