How fast will they dry up?

[Azure]

Hi all. Ive been wondering about a few things, and am curious as to what everyone here thinks. Im in the middle of building several rifles, i have 5 receivers on order, many complete parts kits, for my inch builds. I plan to assemble all my parts, receivers, etc, then worry about building, as i am trying to get everything before they dry up. I still need US made HTS and cocking handles, those will probably be the next things i purchase, just to be certain i have them, as the inch market seems to really be losing steam.

My problem is, i have the "easier" ones out of the way, ie the Aussie and Brit L1A1s (still need a few aussie kits as donors for canadians) and am now faced with the C1A1, C2 and L2 builds, as well as looking for rarer parts like a Hythe rear sight. Im not made of money, sadly, and it may take several months to find and purchase the Canadian parts/kits, as well as the L2.

Parts kits can no longer be imported with barrels, do you think US companies will fill the gap? I know there is fear of AWB part 2, but congress will not get that passed overnight. Realistically, it will take a while even if they concentrate on it, as they have to prove something will be different this time, than with the last AWB, which, as all parties involved will begrudgingly admit, did nothing but make it a bigger pain for those of us that do follow the law.

Is a 6-8 month timeframe reasonable for completing my kits, aquiring all my receivers, US parts, etc? Building can come later, as once i have the parts i have the rest of my life (barring any further restrictions on these rifles) to complete the builds. I DO plan to barrel my uppers as i get them, so i can be sure i have the correct LS and timing washers. Im more worried about the FAL craze dying as fast as it started, and not being able to get the parts i need because either A) they are not available or B) no one is in the market to buy or sell them anymore, and i simply cannot reach anyone that may have the parts. Wish i hadnt gotten started on these so late in the game.

Or do you all think i am worrying about nothing, and think there is a large enough supply of parts already here to keep this market moving for at least a few more years? Thanks, Azure

[Matamoros123]

Im buying all my stuff now, Im slightly worried.
Just like you, Im buying parts, receivers, and will worry about building it later. I already got my FAL kit , need a receiver. Then Ill pick up an AR-15 receiver, just in case those become banned.

[kev]

Well, to be honest with you, I think you can forget about the Canadian stuff. With enough money/time/effort you might still piece together a sorta C1, but I've been in the FALs for twenty years and don't think I've ever seen a C2 or even enough actual C2 parts to attract a magnet. And if you do get one together, you'll search far and wide to find someone knowledgeable enough about FALs to be impressed by it. If it were me, I'd be far more concerned with putting together a good representative display of rifles that can be used as rifles. As far as the FAL craze dying off as fast as it started,...............we should all be so lucky. It took ten years to get off the ground and another five years in it's prime. It's just barely over its peak right now. I'm a relative newcomer and I was selling my surplus kits 15 years ago. They'll be around for a long time, politics willing.

Personally I'd only concern myself with receivers and kits(along with ammo and training). From where I sit, I would expect to have to bury them, turn them in, or fight with them within the next five years. Don't think parts count of correctness of rare models is gonna matter much by then. I do admire your goals and dedication tho.

[DakTo]

The current political posture of the importation of rifle kits without the barrels is bureaucratic lunacy at its best.
All it does is create a American industry that will either jack up the price of used foreign barrels or compel the domestic manufacturers of FAL barrels to triple the price (and profits) of their new barrels.

I also have been in the FAL business for many years and if you need C1 or L1A1 parts, take a trip to Canada and pay a visit to the many dealers that work out of storefronts and garages. You will be surprised what you may find.

Will FAL things dry up in the US? Good question, but I think the domestic commercial receiver manufacturers are "safe" until at least 2008 and how many "free" nations have FAL parts ans kits to dispose of?

Try: www.marstar.ca

[Azure]

I think nurturing an industry in the US to make reproduction parts is a good thing, if they do it, but i am certain thats not why the barrels were banned...sooo stupid! If things remain as they are, i think our hobby would be safe for a long time, i mean there are still 90k G1 kits that HAVENT been imported, who knows what else is out there waiting? I also hope that most of the members of congress, and all of us in general, remember that the last AWB accomplished exactly...nothing. I love these rifles, and wouldnt mind obtaining a few metrics also (i do have a couple nice kits stashed away!) but atm, i think ill concentrate on the inch ones. Maybe DSA or someone will make some repro L2/C2 barrels? (i can dream...i doubt the market for these is big enough to warrant it)

Hopefully i have time to get the ones i am after. And maybe not even be hurried through it. I mean, to me, collecting all the parts to build a rifle like the C1A1/C2 is half the fun, though i think ill approach this as though time is not on my side. I can always build a second one later, if things stay sane and dont change.

[FAL freek]

Originally posted by DakTo


I also have been in the FAL business for many years and if you need C1 or L1A1 parts, take a trip to Canada and pay a visit to the many dealers that work out of storefronts and garages. You will be surprised what you may find.

Wouldn't bringing a barrel back in be importing it? Not sure if that's the part he's looking for but when I drove thru Canada and came back in the U.S. back in 2000 they sure were buggers about letting me back in. They asked me on atleast 2 different occasions "Do you have any guns in the car"? And a myriad of other questions. I couldn't figure out what the big deal was.

[Hawgleg44]

I am concerned about what will happen in 2008, and I fully expect there to be another AWB. And, be sure, they learned from the last time. They will close every "loophole" they left open last time, and I'm about 95% sure they will include some kind of ammunition ban, too.

I'm trading for and buying my FAL's, but I'm considering building AK's. I have kits and 80% receivers, and as soon as I'm done here, I'm ordering the U.S. parts on the Tapco site. I may not build them right away, but at least I'll have everything I need to do so for when the time comes.

I don't think you need to worry about something happening immediately, but I'd get all the parts you can ASAP, just to be sure.

[davedude]

I am concerned about what will happen in 2008

You and me both. I will be getting mouse gun and M14 recievers before they are banned.

I got four fal kits and five FAL recievers, so am good there...just ordered smore parts yesterday, the compliance parts for the STG kit and correct size locking shoulder for my Sarco franken FAL on a Century with new argie barrel.

Only gots so much money...oy!

Dave Dude

[W.E.G.]

Build it now - while its still legal - and while it won't put you in the poorhouse.

OK - well - at least while its still legal.

You can always disassemble the guns later if it becomes worth your while. It will be a lot harder to put one together if things change.

[Hebrew Battle Rifle]

If you don't have a stash of ammo heavy enough to collapse the leaf springs on a 1/2 ton pick up, you may want to refocus your efforts in that direction. Ammo is the Achillies heel for gun owners and the ammo market hasn't been nice to us recently. Without ammo, those purdy rifles are just poorly engineered clubs.

[snowhawk jockey]

Originally posted by Hebrew Battle Rifle
...stash of ammo heavy enough to collapse the leaf springs on a 1/2 ton pick uP, you may want to refocus your efforts...

+1
Now I know when my ammostash is big enough to start collecting guns to shoot it with

[TRANSAM 79]

Ive seen several scares,prices go up and then when things dont happen they go back down.Right know there up and to wait is taking a chance on higher prices or non-availability of items.Im getting what I need to finish projects that need a few things and some stuff for a rainy day.I dont want to have unfinished projects.The USA and AR stuff will be around unless they do a 100% ban on EVIL BLACK RIFLES

[smokinhydes1]

Anybody read the 100 hour agenda? Looks innocent enough, but there's that part about following the 9/11 commission's recomendations. Class, does anyone know what that means? There will be a 25.00 per box tax added. A 500 round brick of 22lr will require the posession of a "Federal Small Arsenals" license. There will be NO allowable weapons that cycle themselves...now I admit I love my Winnies and my SAA's, but what do you suppose they are preparing for? Anybody know about that Exxon oil loan that China bought out for 4 TRILLION bucks? Yeah, right now the Feds are floating that money from bank chain to bank chain to hide it from China. They are talking about a new money exchange to replace the dollar, similar to the euro, for North and South America and Canada to share...why? BECAUSE they know that sooner or later China will have it's ducks in a row and come looking for that money. And it won't BE there. How about the White Papers in China? Know what that is? It's their "State of the Union" address, goes out 5 or so times a year. From the time of Nixon's tenure until Bill Clinton took over, the white papers looked LOVINGLY upon America. Bill came up with NAFTA, in large part to woo N Korea. Wow did THAT backfire. Charity is an insult of the HIGHEST order to a Korean. China effectively said "where's the LOVE, MFER?" and is now highly anti-American. Long story short, stock up on ammo because what your rifle collection is worth ain't gonna amount to diddlydick.

[smokinhydes1]

Also I promise the ragtops aren't going to matter at all in short order. The Asians are going to go in there and take what WE should have. You don't need to nuke an area the size of Ohio to take control...8 B52's loaded with conventional bombs could wipe every one of those aholes off the map in 20 minutes. What I'm getting at is a freaking GUN BAN is NOT WHAT WE HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[smokinhydes1]

I'm Randy Owens, and I approved this message.

[millersm99]

That is the biggest load of crap I've heard in a long time.

Without the US economy to support their export economy the Chinese would go back to starving in the stone age. They will do nothing to rock that boat. They need us way more than we need them.

[shootist87122]

I agree with WEG (build it now) and HBR (buy ammo now). However, you are already too late on one and close to too late on the other.

[Azure]

Exactly how am i, or anyone else just getting into FALs, or shooting in general for that matter, too late? I have parts. I have receivers. I have ammo. You all talk about how new people are "welcomed" to the files, or shooting in general, and then depressing things like this pop up. If im too late, what should i do-throw this stuff in the dump? I asked for imput, and i guess i got it, but ive never hoped so deeply that so many people were wrong. I dont know if things will change, im optomistic they will not. Why? If i thought my guns would be illegal in 2 years, and ammo impossible to get, i sure wouldnt be dumping money into this like i have been. If its hopeless, why does anyone continue to build or buy guns?

[TideWater 41009]

Originally posted by Azure
Exactly how am i, or anyone else just getting into FALs, or shooting in general for that matter, too late? I have parts. I have receivers. I have ammo. You all talk about how new people are "welcomed" to the files, or shooting in general, and then depressing things like this pop up. If im too late, what should i do-throw this stuff in the dump? I asked for imput, and i guess i got it, but ive never hoped so deeply that so many people were wrong. I dont know if things will change, im optomistic they will not. Why? If i thought my guns would be illegal in 2 years, and ammo impossible to get, i sure wouldnt be dumping money into this like i have been. If its hopeless, why does anyone continue to build or buy guns?

A lot of guys tend to dwell on the worst possible things occurring, or believe and spread unsubstantiated myths and conspiracy theorys. You are not too late for anything. You say have receivers. That is great. Now find some parts kits and build your rifles.

Ammo has never been a problem if you hand load, which is a rewarding hobby itself. As long as you can buy, find or make components, you will be able to produce ammo, and .308/7.62 is one of the most popular calibers made. As long as reloading components (brass, primers, bullets and powder) are legally (or not) available, you will be able to find them in this caliber.

"Fear not", as it says 365 times in the Bible. Enjoy life, and enjoy your hobby.

[shootist87122]

I thought the question was "how soon will they dry up"? Maybe I mis-read.

[neminion]

FALs and parts will never totally dry up. Your capacity to buy them is a different story.

Every man has a price....

[smokinhydes1]

WOW! I am surprised about the "load of crap" comment. You have NO IDEA who I am or what I do. I'm not going to write off one forum over one BLIND DUMBA$$. It's not like I go around spewing this stuff, it just happened to come out here. You can do what you want with the info...I just suggest retracting your head from the sand/a$$ and looking at what's going on around you.

[smokinhydes1]

You want to arm wrestle?

[dirtyrice]

BARRR FIGHT *throws a stole*

[Azure]

all i was asking is how long yall thought i had to find the oddball C2 and L2 parts...i didnt mean to start a big argument.

[shootist87122]

So what the hell is wrong with starting an argument?

[Hebrew Battle Rifle]

Originally posted by Azure
all i was asking is how long yall thought i had to find the oddball C2 and L2 parts...i didnt mean to start a big argument.

Are you kidding? This is a gun board. Arguments are what we live for.In fact, we have a forum dedicated to nothing but arguments.

[smokinhydes1]

You didn't Azure, I just got on a roll...I do that from time to time. I have a lot of Agonist in me, both Prot and Ant.

[Voided37]

Originally posted by smokinhydes1
You didn't Azure, I just got on a roll...I do that from time to time. I have a lot of Agonist in me, both Prot and Ant.

ROLL ON, FRIEND!! We need all the dissent and PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT AFRAID TO SPEAK THEIR MINDS that we can get....Thank you!

Right or wrong it's all food for thought and i'm eating it up...

As far as this thread though it usually starts with a catalyst...REMEMBER PATRICK PURDY ANYONE? Or that turd Colin Ferguson? Wesbecker??
All fedguv [or locoguv] needs is an excuse. This has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with ENSLAVEMENT! Pay them taxe's, BOYYSSSSS.....

HBR's comment about the club was beautiful. Get LOTS of ammo AND THE MINDSET TO USE IT!!!

Me shut up now....

Stephen Melton

[bakerjw]

Not to fan flames or anything, but China is not our friend. I do not know the figures but I am sure that a certain percentage of every "Made in china" item sold makes its way into their military buildup.

On the subject of a new AWB and new liberal leadership. Sure it has raised prices on parts and ammunition. BUT... It has also adjusted my wifes thoughts about my new used Century frankenfal and the new DPMS AR that I just got.


To Azure! A Hearty welcome! Sorry it wasn't as warm and fuzzy as how I felt when I first made my way here. After buying my first FAL, I knew I had not made a mistake. Even though it has some wear marks and was used, the barrel is great, it shoots fine groups, and makes all of my friends go "Wow..." A hint though, if you find a decent price on some ammo you may want to pick it up. If it is real good, PM me... Welcome,

[turner2]

I've been building and shooting fals since about 1999 I guess. Got in on the cheap kits and of course kicked myself for not buying more. I also remember plinking with $135/000 hirtenberger, Port, Radway, and not realizing how good I had it. My question to the guys that have been around longer than I is: "Does the price of ammo ever come back down or is it a one way street?" If we were to leave Iraq tomorrow would that affect ammo pricing?

[Hawgleg44]

I highly doubt that ammo prices will drop back anywhere near the cheap prices we used to get. Even if their costs drop back down, and the demand due to the war goes away, they aren't going to drop again.

It's just like what happened with the gas prices after Desert Storm. They rose, supposidly due to the war, then, after it was over and the importers' cost dropped back down to pre-war prices, all the oil companies agreed to freeze them where they were and just sucked up the profits.

The ammo companies are going to do the same thing. They see that the higher prices have not effected the quantity of ammo sold. Last year showed the most ammo sold, ever, on the retail market. After the military demand disappears, the ammo companies will pull the same crap as the oil companies do and keep prices the same. They see we are willing to pay it now, and they know we will continue to pay it later. Just like gas, what other choice do we have?

The ammo companies are doing more to discourage the younger shooters from getting into the sport due to the cost of shooting than the anti gun politicians are. I always thought it would be the govt taxing shooting out of existance, but it's the ammo companies jacking up their prices every few months that are destroying the hobby. In the long run, I'm sure there are younger people who would have gotten involved in our hobby/lifestyle but could not afford to do so.

Thank God I reload.

[okiefarmer]

Boy, has this thread wondered over on the neighbors property. And yes, azure, build it now, they will come. Hope your ordered receivers get here before hell freezes over. If you have all the parts in your back pocket, you could construct when convenient. If "THEY" come and get them, it matters not what condition or stage they are in.

No more cheap ammo, damn guys, ya been shootin' it all up. Didja really think there was an endless supply of .308 out there, I mean really. It's basic supply and demand at it's finest. And there isn't a filer on board that wouldn't bid against his own fellow falfiler to get the last battlepack known to man. The FAL building has prolly put the biggest dent in the .308 milsurp that has ever been seen. Holy GOD, there was a butt load of these things built.

All things are going up, the oil companies didn't just keep their fule prices up to screw us, crude oil prices have stayed up also. They pull oil out of the ground, but they also pay the royalty owner, and one of the biggest royalty owners in America is Uncle Sam. All offshore oil/gas is gumment owned. So when they are saying they feel our pain with these high prices, they are talking out of their asses, they love them, they are making a mint in royalty fees. Yes, oil companies are making prifits right now, but they were swimming in red ink for years and years when crude was aaround the $10-$20 range. No one even realized it, everyone was fat and happy with their ghetto cruiser on Saturday night, spending more ******* money on dinner and drinks that night than they did on gas for the month and thought nothing of it.

It's a timing thing. I was born in the 50s and had to play with what was dealt. I missed the $1500 prices on pickups that dad had, and my sons will miss some of the things I thought were good deals. Learn to live and roll with the times, cause they are a changin' fer sure.

Okie out

[Strike Penguin]

Originally posted by Azure
Is a 6-8 month timeframe reasonable for completing my kits, aquiring all my receivers, US parts, etc?

...

and think there is a large enough supply of parts already here to keep this market moving for at least a few more years? Thanks, Azure [/B]

Regarding availability: I thought kits and suchlike would vanish on Jan. 2nd, 2006. Over a year later there are still nice kits and parts available, albeit at higher prices. I think the market will keep going, it'll just be slower more expensive. People hoard, people abandon projects, things appear out of closets... It happens every week in the Marketplace.

Politically, my thinking is to get barrels on receivers - the rest of the fiddly stuff can wait. I'd say 6-8 months would be a good limit. The Dems are busy pandering to the hysteric shitbag left about Iraq right now, and once they've mucked that up in their own way, they can go back to pursuing their Soft Marxist Opium Dreams. The Repugs are damned near useless now, running scared, even though they shouldn't, because they fracked it up big-time by miscalculating and then not listening to the center-right majority, IMO. In the meantime, some of the D's have had an inkling that maybe gun control loses them votes (believe it or not, one of the strongest arguments I've seen against more gun control legislation was put forth on DailyKOS, of all places!) Assuming they have one strategist with a brain over there (and they must since they knew how to scratch out an edge in the mid-terms), any pitch for a new AWB is going to start quiet and soft, and they'll probably have to put in some sort of grandfathering as a compromise before raising some money for a media pitch and then bashing us into the ground.

Upshot of all this is that starting late last year, I made it my aim to get my projects to the "barreled reciever" stage before the new congress came into session. I've been mostly successful, though my current project is running late, and it's the last one I can afford until I get a job that doesn't suck. After that, I'll just be buying ammo in drips and drops when good deals pop up.

[Aifwikir]

Why mess with foreign parts when it's possible to build an all USA rifle now! FAL drying up? I don't think so!



The only foreign part in or on this rifle is the stripped bolt! Yes It's an inch Rifle.

I don't think we have anything to worry about when it comes to FALs.


Aif

[Kyrottimus]

Originally posted by Aifwikir
Why mess with foreign parts when it's possible to build an all USA rifle now! FAL drying up? I don't think so!



The only foreign part in or on this rifle is the stripped bolt! Yes It's an inch Rifle.

I don't think we have anything to worry about when it comes to FALs.


Aif

Sweet rifle! I'd have a standard handgaurd minus the lego acutriments and do away with the thermelt magazine, however it's still a sweet rifle!