Slamfire on FAL full auto setting?

groundfire · October 10, 2006, 22:46

Slamfire on FAL full auto setting?

Some FALs have a selector switch for full auto and when on FA the hammer will come forward with the bolt without firing another round. Is there a concern with slamfire? I know there is a spring that holds the firing pin back but if the spring is weak will it cause a slamfire/FA?

richbug · October 11, 2006, 06:10

The only time I've seen it was with Federal primers.

Mouse · October 11, 2006, 07:27

Quote:

Originally posted by groundfire
Slamfire on FAL full auto setting?

Some FALs have a selector switch for full auto and when on FA the hammer will come forward with the bolt without firing another round. Is there a concern with slamfire? I know there is a spring that holds the firing pin back but if the spring is weak will it cause a slamfire/FA?

Yes, a slamfire is possible, so is blowing up your rifle and or your person with an out of battery detonation.
Don't play with a slamfire, it's a real bad move.

Survey Punk · October 11, 2006, 07:34

Makes me wonder about guns that fire from an open bolt. Most all are pistol caliber but isn't this a kind of slam fire?

JB

Bryan 45 · October 11, 2006, 08:18

Other open bolt guns are MG42, M60...many more.

Is the Vickers?

**W.E.G.** · October 11, 2006, 08:40

I do believe the full-auto guns all have design in the mechanism to prevent the hammer from falling until the bolt is locked.

Even the FAL in original full-auto configuration has such a feature.

But that feature is eliminated when the "safety sear" is not incorporated in the fire control unit. This is why there is a hazard of an out-of-battery discharge when the selector is in the full-auto position when using just a semi-auto fire control unit. You see, in the situation we are discussing with the FAL and the semi-auto fire control unit, it isn't a plain vanilla SLAM-FIRE. Rather, it is (potentially) an early release of the hammer and extension of the firing pin before the bolt is in battery that is the hazard. This is simply not the same thing as a plain-vanilla slam-fire from a mechanical perspective.

Generally, when we speak of slam-fire in the context of semi-auto FAL's, we are talking about igniting the round simply from the harsh, sudden contact of the bolt face (not the firing pin) against the base of the primer. It is very much possible to slam-fire a FAL by simply putting a round into the chamber through the breech, and thumbing the bolt-hold-open tab to allow the bolt to slam on the round you just stuck in the chamber area. AMHIK. I was lucky. The bolt did lock before the round ignited and the muzzle was pointed at the target. But, my finger was nowhere near the trigger when the rifle fired.

Still, an early release of the hammer with the selector in full-auto position in a semi-auto FAL can have the same effect as a slam-fire, as in either instance, you are still experiencing an out-of-battery ignition of the round. Never a good thing.

groundfire · October 11, 2006, 10:45

so we should not have the selector on FA when firing to prevent an out of battery firing?!

Survey Punk · October 11, 2006, 10:56

I see zero reasons to have the selector in the auto position ever.

JB

Malikovski · October 11, 2006, 12:00

I wish I'd known this when I was test-firing my FAL last weekend! I put it in the auto position for a couple shots to make sure it would not fire auto, since the gun was bought off gunbroker and I knew nothing about the origins of the rifle.

Does anyone make a walnut PG without the cutout for the FA selector position? I'd rather it just not be possible to put the selector in that position...

**W.E.G.** · October 11, 2006, 12:41

You can buy a semi-auto-only selector from DSA if you are particularly concerned about selector issues.

$25

http://www.dsarms.com/item-detail.cf...e=selector.gif

It is EXTREMELY rare for a semi-auto FAL to slam-fire, let alone fire out of battery, when the selector is in the full-auto position. What will happen is this: The rifle will fire, spent case ejects, fresh round feeds into chamber, bolt closes, hammer follows the bolt to full forward position (hammer is not cocked). So to fire the next round you have to manipulate the charging handle manually. Of course, this ejects a live round, and you will then feed the next round in the magazine into the chamber by closing the bolt. The rifle will continue to operate in this cumbersome single-shot manner until the selector is returned to the semi-auto position. Or in one instance out of a million, you will get some sort of malfunction which causes the rifle to fire additional shots unexpectedly, or the rifle could even explode (KABOOM) as a consequence of some sort of happenstance out-of-battery ignition.

I don't recommend firing a semi-auto FAL with the selector in the full-auto position. The full-auto selector position is just annoying and it has a miniscule risk of something bad happening.

Some idiots have fired semi-auto FAL's with the selector completely removed. This is extremely dangerous, as there is no safety-sear to prevent the hammer from releasing until the bolt is locked. With the selector completely removed from the lower receiver assembly, a FAL will fire more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger. But the second shot will be a felony, and there is considerable risk of a kaboom due to the absence of the safety sear (aka "full-auto" sear). The way I figure it, if I'm gonna go to prison for 10 years, I don't also want to be blind from a FAL-kaboom.

Malikovski · October 11, 2006, 13:39

I'll put that on the list for my "FAL makeover" I'll be doing soon.

Question: I've been wondering this for a while. What is the difference between an illegal, automatic weapon, and a legal semi-auto that is malfunctioning?

Why do I have the sinking feeling the answer is, "whatever the ATF says it is, on the day you ask them"?

It seems that any semi-auto weapon can, contrary to it's design, fire more than one shot automatically due to a mechanical problem, stuck firing pin, failed disconnector, or whatever else, but it's obviously a malfunction and not what it's supposed to do.

groundfire · October 11, 2006, 17:41

so all you have to do to make an FAL full auto is change the sear to a safety sear (aka "full-auto" sear)?

Malikovski · October 11, 2006, 17:45

No temptation here. I have enough trouble controlling the FAL one shot at a time.

That's nuts if so simple a change makes the conversion. Of course all you have to do on an AK is drill one extra hole and add one part I think...

AndyC · October 11, 2006, 17:52

Quote:

Originally posted by groundfire
so all you have to do to make an FAL full auto is change the sear to a safety sear (aka "full-auto" sear)?

No, but don't even go there...

FIANNAFAL · October 11, 2006, 18:33

If you do not want to spend money with DSA, you can put masking tape around the selector . Then cut the tape out the slot for the full auto cut. Fill with JB Weld and retape. When dry remove tape and file off any splatter. Then you will not have to worry about the weapon firing in the full auto position. It also helps calm the fears of any local LEO who does not know the diference. Gun Show Inspection.

October 10, 2006, 22:46	#1
groundfire Registered FALaholic #: 19994 Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 40	Slamfire on FAL full auto setting? Slamfire on FAL full auto setting? Some FALs have a selector switch for full auto and when on FA the hammer will come forward with the bolt without firing another round. Is there a concern with slamfire? I know there is a spring that holds the firing pin back but if the spring is weak will it cause a slamfire/FA?

October 11, 2006, 07:34	#4
Survey Punk FALaholic #: 8380 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Blounts Creek, NC Posts: 4,160	Makes me wonder about guns that fire from an open bolt. Most all are pistol caliber but isn't this a kind of slam fire? JB __________________ "If innocence is no protection from the weight of criminal law, a crucial incentive to maintain innocence is lost" Fran Haga

October 11, 2006, 08:40	#6
W.E.G. Administrator Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 1211 Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Virginia Posts: 31,055	I do believe the full-auto guns all have design in the mechanism to prevent the hammer from falling until the bolt is locked. Even the FAL in original full-auto configuration has such a feature. But that feature is eliminated when the "safety sear" is not incorporated in the fire control unit. This is why there is a hazard of an out-of-battery discharge when the selector is in the full-auto position when using just a semi-auto fire control unit. You see, in the situation we are discussing with the FAL and the semi-auto fire control unit, it isn't a plain vanilla SLAM-FIRE. Rather, it is (potentially) an early release of the hammer and extension of the firing pin before the bolt is in battery that is the hazard. This is simply not the same thing as a plain-vanilla slam-fire from a mechanical perspective. Generally, when we speak of slam-fire in the context of semi-auto FAL's, we are talking about igniting the round simply from the harsh, sudden contact of the bolt face (not the firing pin) against the base of the primer. It is very much possible to slam-fire a FAL by simply putting a round into the chamber through the breech, and thumbing the bolt-hold-open tab to allow the bolt to slam on the round you just stuck in the chamber area. AMHIK. I was lucky. The bolt did lock before the round ignited and the muzzle was pointed at the target. But, my finger was nowhere near the trigger when the rifle fired. Still, an early release of the hammer with the selector in full-auto position in a semi-auto FAL can have the same effect as a slam-fire, as in either instance, you are still experiencing an out-of-battery ignition of the round. Never a good thing. __________________ . . . Ask me about the Mason-Dixon FAL Collectors Association.

October 11, 2006, 10:56	#8
Survey Punk FALaholic #: 8380 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Blounts Creek, NC Posts: 4,160	I see zero reasons to have the selector in the auto position ever. JB __________________ "If innocence is no protection from the weight of criminal law, a crucial incentive to maintain innocence is lost" Fran Haga

October 11, 2006, 12:41	#10
W.E.G. Administrator Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 1211 Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Virginia Posts: 31,055	You can buy a semi-auto-only selector from DSA if you are particularly concerned about selector issues. $25 http://www.dsarms.com/item-detail.cf...e=selector.gif It is EXTREMELY rare for a semi-auto FAL to slam-fire, let alone fire out of battery, when the selector is in the full-auto position. What will happen is this: The rifle will fire, spent case ejects, fresh round feeds into chamber, bolt closes, hammer follows the bolt to full forward position (hammer is not cocked). So to fire the next round you have to manipulate the charging handle manually. Of course, this ejects a live round, and you will then feed the next round in the magazine into the chamber by closing the bolt. The rifle will continue to operate in this cumbersome single-shot manner until the selector is returned to the semi-auto position. Or in one instance out of a million, you will get some sort of malfunction which causes the rifle to fire additional shots unexpectedly, or the rifle could even explode (KABOOM) as a consequence of some sort of happenstance out-of-battery ignition. I don't recommend firing a semi-auto FAL with the selector in the full-auto position. The full-auto selector position is just annoying and it has a miniscule risk of something bad happening. Some idiots have fired semi-auto FAL's with the selector completely removed. This is extremely dangerous, as there is no safety-sear to prevent the hammer from releasing until the bolt is locked. With the selector completely removed from the lower receiver assembly, a FAL will fire more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger. But the second shot will be a felony, and there is considerable risk of a kaboom due to the absence of the safety sear (aka "full-auto" sear). The way I figure it, if I'm gonna go to prison for 10 years, I don't also want to be blind from a FAL-kaboom. __________________ . . . Ask me about the Mason-Dixon FAL Collectors Association.

October 11, 2006, 06:10	#2
richbug Registered FALaholic #: 10484 Join Date: May 2003 Location: Western PA Posts: 3,761	The only time I've seen it was with Federal primers.

October 11, 2006, 08:18	#5
Bryan 45 Registered FALaholic #: 17465 Join Date: May 2005 Location: 40 miles South of Louisville Posts: 311	Other open bolt guns are MG42, M60...many more. Is the Vickers?

October 11, 2006, 10:45	#7
groundfire Registered FALaholic #: 19994 Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 40	so we should not have the selector on FA when firing to prevent an out of battery firing?!

October 11, 2006, 12:00	#9
Malikovski Registered FALaholic #: 20133 Join Date: May 2006 Location: SC Posts: 700	I wish I'd known this when I was test-firing my FAL last weekend! I put it in the auto position for a couple shots to make sure it would not fire auto, since the gun was bought off gunbroker and I knew nothing about the origins of the rifle. Does anyone make a walnut PG without the cutout for the FA selector position? I'd rather it just not be possible to put the selector in that position...

October 11, 2006, 13:39	#11
Malikovski Registered FALaholic #: 20133 Join Date: May 2006 Location: SC Posts: 700	I'll put that on the list for my "FAL makeover" I'll be doing soon. Question: I've been wondering this for a while. What is the difference between an illegal, automatic weapon, and a legal semi-auto that is malfunctioning? Why do I have the sinking feeling the answer is, "whatever the ATF says it is, on the day you ask them"? It seems that any semi-auto weapon can, contrary to it's design, fire more than one shot automatically due to a mechanical problem, stuck firing pin, failed disconnector, or whatever else, but it's obviously a malfunction and not what it's supposed to do.

October 11, 2006, 17:41	#12
groundfire Registered FALaholic #: 19994 Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 40	so all you have to do to make an FAL full auto is change the sear to a safety sear (aka "full-auto" sear)?

October 11, 2006, 17:45	#13
Malikovski Registered FALaholic #: 20133 Join Date: May 2006 Location: SC Posts: 700	No temptation here. I have enough trouble controlling the FAL one shot at a time. That's nuts if so simple a change makes the conversion. Of course all you have to do on an AK is drill one extra hole and add one part I think...

October 11, 2006, 18:33	#15
FIANNAFAL Registered FALaholic #: 9035 Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Mesquite Tx Posts: 648	If you do not want to spend money with DSA, you can put masking tape around the selector . Then cut the tape out the slot for the full auto cut. Fill with JB Weld and retape. When dry remove tape and file off any splatter. Then you will not have to worry about the weapon firing in the full auto position. It also helps calm the fears of any local LEO who does not know the diference. Gun Show Inspection. __________________ Ever notice how expensive cheap women are!!

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