cold bluing R1 lower receiver - WECSOG

**W.E.G.** · January 19, 2001, 04:49

Allright. I'm stumped.

I know, I know. So, what else is new.

I'm trying to COLD-BLUE a lower receiver from one of Harlan's R1 wood-stock kits.

The finish on the lower looked like hell out of the box. All kinds of goo, and paint and remnants of the ubiquitous bulletproof mystery black finish.

Unlike everybody else, I don't have a sandblaster in my basement. But, I only needed to strip one receiver so, I figured I could do it by brute force. And I was reasonably successful...or so I think.

First, I did a little light scraping to get the loose stuff off.

Then, I roughed up the surface with some coarse steel wool.

Next, I coated the receiver with Brownells Rust and Blue Remover gel.

I allowed the gel to work for a while, then I attacked it with more coarse steel wool and water. The psychedelic camo-paint came right off. Some of the remaining original finish came off. But, not much.

I repeated this process more times than I am willing to admit.

Eventually, I got the outside surfaces down to pretty much BARE METAL. There were a few nooks and crannies that didn't want to give up the black bulletproof finish. But, I realized that it was either going to be those last little bits of bulletproof or the last layer of skin on my hands. Seeing as how it is hard to shoot FAL's with no skin, I decided to just live with a bit of remaining bulletproof.

Next, I cracked open a brand-new bottle of Brownells Oxpho-Blue.

This stuff is supposed to be the cat's pajamas of cold blue juice. I saturated a swath of old long underwear material and commenced to swab the bare surfaces of the lower receiver.

No reaction at all. WTF????!!!!

Repeat steps above with Rust & Blue remover gel and steel wool.

Repeat application of Oxpho-Blue. Again, no reaction. Metal still plain bare metal.

Begin to wonder what this metal is. Could it be stainless??? Is this some sort of plated finish??? Is this really steel???

Decide to bring out the BIG GUN: EASY-OFF HEAVY DUTY OVEN CLEANER.

If this stuff won't strip whatever is keeping the cold-blue from the metal, I don't know what will.

Inundate receiver with it.

Almost asphyxiate myself at 1:00 a.m. in the basement with this stuff. I mean it is evil.

Toss receiver in utility sink to react overnight. Hope receiver is still there by dawn.

Wake up, hose off receiver, scrub and buff some more with coarse steel wool.

Reapply Oxpho-Blue.

AAAAAAAARRRRRGGGHH!!!!

STILL NO REACTION!

Conclude that this Oxpho-Blue stuff must be some kind of snake oil.

Spot dirty, oily, 3-evil-features-in-one Belgian flash hider sitting on workbench. No finish left on that thing. Grab sloppy piece of long underwear still dripping Oxpho-Blue. Wrap around Belgian thingy, and wipe a few times.

Whoa!

Bare Belgian thingy instantly transformed to decently-blued Belgian thingy. This Oxpho-Blue stuff DOES work.

SO, CAN SOMEBODY TELL ME WHY WON'T IT WORK ON THE LOWER RECEIVER????

[ September 19, 2001: Message edited by: gary.jeter ]

Wadman · January 19, 2001, 05:06

It won't work on the lower because it's actually made out of multiphased organic metal. It's actually alive!

All kidding aside, can you score a part of the lower that doesn't show and see if there's a layer of something? That would tell you if it's plated. There's no way this thing is alloy, is there? A magnet would verify that for you.

MG-70 · January 19, 2001, 05:24

Seems like you need some heavy duty paint stripper, that is, assuming it's some sort of epoxy or enamel finish.

If that's the case and you find it, let me know 'cause I'd like to give the P-35 another shot (regular Stripeeze didn't do jack!).

Good luck,
MG-70

QA Commando · January 19, 2001, 06:08

Don't know if this applies, but it might help some. I had to replace a nut on my bipod after one fell off. The only one I could find with the right threads was a standard 6-sided one. I ground off the edges and filed it flatter to get the right shape. Then I stoned it to make it nice and smooth. Finally, I tried to cold blue it and, just like yours, nothing happened!. The bluing just beaded up on the surface. I then took the file to it and roughed up the surface a bit, and then the bluing worked! I concluded that I got the surface too smooth for the bluing to work. Is that possible?

ce · January 19, 2001, 06:22

Dude,what's with all the noxious fuming foul stench spewming?
When in doubt, GRIND!
200 grit sandpaper, rubbed vigorously across all exposed surface will prepare your lower for a coating of Rustoleum Sulfate, a superior, space age finish, available at apothecary and specialty shops like Walmart.

Once applied, the Rustoleum treated surface is allowed to cure in a hot area for two days.
Summer, on roof, winter, next to furnace.
Once cured, the coating is impervious to chemical attack, except in cases of obstinate perserverance.
Remember to pre-treat all areas with Tech 2000 carburator cleaner, also from Walmart($.78) to completely remove all residuesfrom surface.
The satin finish Patio furniture treatment should duplicate bullet proof standards after adequate curing process.(30 years)

Curing is accelerated by exposure to extremes,i.e. desert sun, African bush, deep sea pressure, weightless conditions in outer space or other adversities.

**stimpsonjcat** · January 19, 2001, 07:23

Ahhhhhhhhhhh!

Good Lord no...not 200 GRIT!?!?!

The coarsest (sp?) I would consider would be 600 or more.

Actually, I would try using a wire wheel on it if I couldn't get access to a blaster. You can get the wire wheels at Lowes or what not.

I have seen the "too polished to take blue" thing happen before...but it sounds like you still have a coating to deal with.

Good luck and *please* don't use the dremel on it

peace!

Buk · January 19, 2001, 07:41

I'd suspect oil from the steel wool is preventing the cold blue from working (steel wool does have oil in it). After you're through steel wooling it next time, wash the receiver good with Dawn, Joy, or whatever you have. Don't touch it with bare hands, wear cotton gloves. Dip the receiver in a pot of boiling water for a few minutes, shake the water off, the heat will dry it, apply the cold blue. Let us know what happens.

HTH
Duncan

ce · January 19, 2001, 07:42

Come, come, my dear Stimpson, you're not afraid of a few SCRATCHES, now, eh wot ?
Actually, the same too smooth to work applies here.
Yes, it is amazing how the 200 grit will DESTROY that erstwhile impervious finish, I mean, it just eats it away, grinding down to bare metal in no time. You would think that all those grind marks would be apparent, but in actuality, a rough or porous surface gives the paint somewhere to dig a good firm hold into, not just a smooth surface to cling on. This even works on stocks, as the coat builds up it smooths right on out.
On the first application, you can see the "nap" of the ground on plastic craze as the solvent excites it, then it all melds together to something thats smooth and soft to the touch. And girls like it, too.

Dave1 · January 19, 2001, 23:16

Gary, try this. Get a green scotch bright pad from under the kitchen sink, a real 3m one, not a cheap imitation, use that instead of steel wool to work in the cold blue, you'll be suprised.

my.02
Dave

------------------
Second Place is Just the First Loser
NRA Life Member

Doubleought · January 20, 2001, 03:39

Hey Gary, If all else fails try acid etching. Mix a VERY weak solution of muriatic acid and water. After degreasing soak parts for about 30 minutes. You might see "beer bubbles" rising off of the parts. Keep an eye on the part. You want to etch the surface but not remove metal. Use some type of tongs to remove parts from acid and rinse in cold water for a few minutes. Part will have a dull grey look, but that won't affect the finish of the bluing. Do not dry the part. Go immediately from rinse to bluing. If you dry the part it will begin to rust before your eyes! Just swab the blue over the part to wash any water away. Then rinse, dry and oil coat. I let the part "cure" overnight, applying more oil every once in a while. It's amazing how much oil the metal will soak up.

NOTE: Be sure to pour acid slowly into the water, not the water into the acid.

I've read that white vinegar will work also, but I've never tried it.

Zulu5Oscar · January 20, 2001, 07:28

Like most of us I like to polish things off rather nicely mirror finish ie. feedramp on a 1911 or BHP. But not for bluing.

Well just like the others said if it is too polished it will not take it on.

Get open up the "pores" on the receiver ( is ALIVE, isn't it ) and it will take the blue.

As for the steel wool I would suggest to go outside ( to avoid fumes ) if possible and burn it to remove the oil.

Apply the cold blue and polish off with the burned steel wool.
Repeat ad infinitum

And it will blue.

Very important.

I have noticed that best results are achieved by washing the part in HOT weater in between treatments.

I know all this was said before but I am repeating it to add to the pile.

If you give up try fireplace or oven paint available at many trade shops.

Hope it helps

Apache66 · January 20, 2001, 08:03

Here's a shot in the dark:
Could the lower be made of Aluminium? Oxpho won't blue it at all, or an steel alloy of some kind?
Call Brownells and talk to a tech rep, those guys are really helpful, they will know what to do.

Bubba · January 20, 2001, 08:13

I cold blued one of my STG lowers and it didn't take as easily as some other parts. That area where they hardened it didn't take at all. 'TILL I set the lower on my woodstove and got it about 200 degrees. I wound up putting about eight or ten coats of blue and heated it between each before it was black.
Maybe that will help?
Bubba.

**W.E.G.** · January 20, 2001, 09:03

Lots of great suggestions.

I tried a little sandpaper right behind the grip mount bolt. I figured if I buggered that spot up, at least it wouldn't show when the rifle was assembled.

I tried 400 grit at first. This polished the metal to a very smooth finish. The blue didn't take at all to that area.

So, I moved up to 240 grit. This roughed the surface a bit, but not badly. This time the blue kinda reacted. Purplish mottled effect. Hideous.

The wife is going out of town on biz next week. That should be an opening to mix noxious chemicals and cook FAL parts on the kitchen stove. I like the etching and heat suggestions.

As an observation of the receiver in the white, it looks like the manufacturer abraded the surface after the receiver was formed. After all, it is only a chunk of sheet metal. Presumably this was done in order to get the right surface for application of Bulletproof. The sheet metal probably started as a smooth sheet. I can see abrasion patterns which look consistent with what you would get when sanding it after it was formed. Probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 grit to get that texture.

I better make sure I got enough clean drawers to get me through the week.

twodog · January 20, 2001, 11:41

Make sure you wash the underwear first.

**W.E.G.** · January 20, 2001, 13:32

Quote:

Originally posted by twodog:
Make sure you wash the underwear first.

I was gonna throw it in the pot with the receiver. Figured it would accelerate the etching process.

Dean P · January 20, 2001, 19:15

Don't think I have read any thing dummer than then this entire string, you need to let a pro do it for you, before you blue your toenails.

Doubleought · January 21, 2001, 04:22

That would take all the fun out of it!

Besides, you KNOW Gary isn't gonna' quit until he finally gets it right!

**W.E.G.** · January 21, 2001, 11:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Doubleought:
...fun...isn't gonna' quit...

Blue toenails!!!! ROFLMAO!

Ya reckon I could get me one of them out-call, blue-polish pedicures while I run the Dremel...YEAH BABY!!!

Zulu5Oscar · January 21, 2001, 13:24

All kidding aside you wil have chain smoker fingers and nails unless you wear some gloves.

Zulu5Oscar · January 21, 2001, 19:11

Gary why don't you call it WTF Case hardening

**W.E.G.** · January 21, 2001, 19:15

The little lady is still in town. But, I couldn't wait.

I sneaked into the basement and fired up the propane torch.

With the torch standing on the floor, I held the R1 receiver in the flame (like toasting marshmallows) until it was toasty.

Splashed some Oxpho-Blue on a paper towel, and commenced to wiping the receiver. Some amount of sizzling of Oxpho-Blue later, the receiver did react with the chemical. Looked pretty bad. No more than 10% coverage. Very interesting that the tang of the receiver (the part that sticks off the bottom, and attaches to the stock) didn't react at all.

Too embarrassed to let anybody see this mess, I attacked the receiver with a big wad of 240 grit sandpaper. I tried to keep all the strokes in one direction. The receiver polished-up pretty nicely. I was REAL tempted to leave it "in the white." The tang was a goldish color.

Unwilling to leave well enough alone, I sneaked into the workshop for another toasting session with the torch. I didn't let it get as hot this time. Probably around 140 degrees.

Another wet paper towel with Oxpho-Blue and onto the receiver with it. More reaction this time. Maybe 35%. Looks better...but only in a relative sense.

The pic looks better than it looks in real life. The areas that appear to be covered in the pic have a striated and/or mottled appearance. I call it the special "Jeter-WTF-basement camo" pattern.

I can't take credit (or blame) for the finish on the recoil spring tube. It is still coated in the original Bulletproof finish.

Bottom line in my opinion, the only way this thing is ever gonna cold blue in any respectable fashion is to get it to the sandblaster. The sandblaster could get all the nooks and crannies and curves like the sandpaper can't. Moreover, the blaster would give a uniform surface pattern. Maybe another 5 hours of sanding would get the surface in condition to take the blue. Even then, it would proabably still be questionable at the curves and angles.

[ September 19, 2001: Message edited by: gary.jeter ]

SrBenelli · January 21, 2001, 20:07

Know what your problem is?????? You ain't CUSSED at it enough!!! How can you expect to make it work without a %$&&*, and @@#(%## or even a half-dozen @^^&%$!!@#*!!!!!!s?
And remember, if at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer! And if it breaks, well F^@K IT! It needed fixin' in the first place!

------------------
If we could just get everyone to close their eyes for 15 minutes and visualise world peace, imagine how quiet...how serene it would be....till the looting started!

[This message has been edited by SrBenelli (edited January 21, 2001).]

Bruce · January 21, 2001, 22:03

This sure is an interesting thread, Gary. I'm not a chemist, but I am a toolmaker and the test we use to check for stainless is a magnet or copper sulphate.

All carbon steels (which should be blue-able) will be magnetic, as will 400 series stainless, if memory serves. 300 series stainless will not be magnetic.

Copper sulphate, which used to be available in drug stores, will turn carbon steels orange when rubbed on. It will have no effect on any stainless. Do you know any diemakers? They will have copper sulphate, or "blue vitriol," as it's usually called.

Do you know anyone with access to a sandblaster, as was already suggested? Some auto body shops, factories, etc. will have them. At this point, that seems your best bet. Good luck, and let us know the final outcome!

law4fun · January 21, 2001, 22:21

Gary,
Just bite the bullet, so to speak, and send the *#%^#$)*@ thing out and get it parked along with the barrel assembly to match the Imbel...I know it is SA and I know it is supposed to look like it had been drug through elephant crap, but the poor thing has been through enough. The only thing worse is if you were going to put that Hesse on it! (VBG) Talk about going on strike. It would never, ever function for you again.
Jim

**W.E.G.** · January 22, 2001, 00:26

Harrrrumph!

Anybody can BUY a pretty gun.

A man's gotta work hard to build a really UGLY gun!

paintballmagnet · January 22, 2001, 03:04

Gary, Send it to me and I'll take it to work, beadblast and parkerize it for you. Free of charge! If you are interested, attach a price to your lower. I'll buy it from you, do the work, then sell it back for what I paid. This will prevent the worry of me ripping you off for a lower. We use phosphoric acid solution park in a 5 tank system to prevent air-conditioner compressor internals we build from rusting.

**W.E.G.** · January 22, 2001, 10:06

Quote:

Originally posted by paintballmagnet:
Gary, Send it to me...

Uhhh...like where do I send the crumbs?

Hey PBM, I trust you implicitly. But, if I just send it to somebody who knows what they are doing, then I'd have to find something else to do in the off-season.

Actually, a buddy and I ordered a park tank. We're gonna set the tank on his gas grill when the weather warms up. Flambe' d'FAL and weiners. Sounds good eh? Potato salad might make good heat-stop paste for those solder jobs.

Snakeshot · January 22, 2001, 11:13

Gary, over the weekend I also cold-blued a SA lower. It came out really nice. Methinks with yours that there is still oil and grease in the pores of the metal. Mine got Chem-Dip, Simple Green, baked in the oven and then degreaser. I heated it up and wiped on Birchwood-Casey Perma Blue paste. Soaked it up like a dry sponge. Did all the little parts as well.HTH.

**W.E.G.** · January 22, 2001, 11:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Snakeshot:
...baked in the oven...

What temperature?

Snakeshot · January 22, 2001, 13:44

Gary, 300 deg. for 45 min. I should add that I blued everything twice with a light buffing in between and soaked the blued parts in Mobil 1 5w/30 overnight. I am now cleaning everything off (some kind of funky residue) and reassembling and if I may say so it looks great.HTH.

**W.E.G.** · January 22, 2001, 13:48

What is Chem-Dip?

Snakeshot · January 22, 2001, 13:55

Gary, Chem-Dip is pure liquid evil. You can find it at the auto parts store. It comes in a 1 gallon can (like a paint can) and has a really nice S.S. basket that drops in. It will remove paint (well not the bulletproof stuff), dirt and grease. It saves me a LOT of time on that wonderful S.A. surplus stuff. Oh, and it retails for $10.00 in these parts.HTH.

**W.E.G.** · January 22, 2001, 22:27

A LITTLE BIT OF PROGRESS

I took the average of a lot of advice that y'all threw at me.

I decided not to try the acid method. I've gotten through this so far with only a mashed thumb and otherwise really dirty hands. Even managed to piss off a few people with my blitherings. I take that as a sign that success must be close by. But, seeing as how my chemistry study pretty much ended when I burned up all the saltpeter and sulfur in the chemistry set, I figgerd that if I started playing with acid things could get waaaaay to interesting.

With the wife out of town today, I was free to attack the ozone layer at full charge.

First, I crept outside in the dark and fired up the propane torch, and resumed my FAL-marshmallow-roast. This pretty well burned-off all the Break-Free I had coated on it to prevent rust.

Next, I grabbed a can of aerosol carburetor cleaner (after extinguishing the torch) and hosed-down the receiver. I'm pretty sure I never got the receiver hot enough for the spray to have any adverse quenching effect on the metallurgy.

With the receiver still warm, I went back inside. There, I poured a puddle of Oxpho-Blue in a wide-bottomed plastic container. I used a small pad of coarse steel wool (no special treatment or sterilization) to scrub the Oxpho-Blue onto the receiver. Hey cool! Getting some reaction here!

I repeated the process a couple more times.

Here is the result

Good from far...but far from good.

I'd say fair. But, probably about right as compared to the rest of the kit of which it is a part. I reckon my meager refinishing skills will help the part not "forget where it came from."

[ September 19, 2001: Message edited by: gary.jeter ]

CF700 · January 23, 2001, 00:03

Gary,

Had to put my two cents in on the jeter-WTF project. I used oxpho-blue before and had similar frustration with a barrel from an M-1 carbine. It wasn't material related as some of the barrel would take the finish and other areas wouldn't, just as you described. What it ultimately came down to is a combination of things suggested from the various post above - clean, I mean really clean, bare metal, which was achieved with alcohol and various grits of emery cloth: started with 120 finished with 400. After a lot playing around, it worked and it looks a lot better than when I started. Good luck! I know what your thinking; it's too bad Dremmel doesn't make a sandblaster.

Wadman · January 23, 2001, 00:07

So what exactly did they do to the metal? A friend sandblasted the lower receiver for me and it sits here in the white while I figure out what/how to finish it. It's been like this for over a week now and still no sign of rust. I've certainly handled it enough to get oil from my hands on it.

**W.E.G.** · January 23, 2001, 10:19

Quote:

Originally posted by Wadman:
So what exactly did they do to the metal?

I think it has developed a sympathetic super-power after having been in close contact with original Bulletproof black-cote for 30 years. The metal probably forgot how to rust.

Seriously, you are probably a step ahead of me, as you at least got yours into the sandblast. I think that has to improve the porosity of the surface. When you do commence your effort, be sure to get the part as oil-free as possible.

I can hardly recommend my technique. But, if you don't experiment you don't learn.

Look at the way the pro's do it. No doubt, that is the "right" way. Goes something like this I think: Dunk the part in a tank of high-temp industrial stripper. Let it work for a day. Rinse it. Sandblast it. Degrease it. Dunk it in a tank of high-temp bluing solution. Should be beautiful.

And then there is my method. Wile E. Coyote is smilin'!

Beep-beep!
Huh? WTF!!!

**W.E.G.** · January 23, 2001, 10:24

Quote:

Originally posted by CF700:
it's too bad Dremmel doesn't make a sandblaster.

Aint it the truth.

Next time I try this I think I'll just swallow a couple pounds of sand, and start eating chili until the pressure builds up.

Bubba · January 23, 2001, 18:11

Gary, sorry my advise didn't help much. I had problems with the blue taking at first on my receiver, but I guess it wasn't as bad as yours. I remember puting about 10 coats of blue before it looked good enough. My blueing sizzled too.

**W.E.G.** · January 23, 2001, 19:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Bubba:
...my advise didn't help much...

Whatcha talkin' bout???

If you hadn't told me about heating it on the wood stove, I'd a-gived up. Best advice I got 'cept for the fella who sent me an email suggesting that I apply the cold-blue with steel wool instead of paper towels.

I 'preciate all the help.

I might go after it some more if I get a minute in a day or two. Or I might just leave it kinda hafass since the condition of everything else on the rifle is pretty beat. Nothing worse than a set of chrome wheels on a Willys.

BTW, when is the Bubba's FAL-fest rescheduled? I hope its before baseball season starts. I might have to bring one of those store-bought FAL's since all my WTF projects are kinda scattered for a while.

Snakeshot · January 23, 2001, 20:22

Come on Gary, stay with it , don't give up, you will be surprised at what a fine hand polishing such as you have been doing will result in after the final finish. You putting that with that wood R1 buttstock?
And Dean P., you speak the truth, but it is fun to play with!

[This message has been edited by Snakeshot (edited January 23, 2001).]

Dean P · January 23, 2001, 20:28

May I say something without pissing anyone off?

Cold blue is short life , only good for a touchup, not for the entire gun, a ratty finish at best. Oil & grease free about 100 degrees works best for me.Keep your hands off, use latex or rubber gloves.Avoid steel wool, it does have oil in it. When you apply the cold blue, give it time to set or rust, don't use a synthetic oil on it or brakefree type oil. Some steel would be hard to blue that has been heated to form or forge the lower receiver. Parkerizing is the best way.

**W.E.G.** · January 23, 2001, 23:01

I decided to tackle a lesser opponent tonight. The stock Ferrule from the hell-and-back R1 kit. Not bad result if I may say so myself.

JimM · January 24, 2001, 08:36

Hey Wily er, Gary,
Been getting a kick out of your on-going saga! Have you heard the old adage "a job worth doing is worth doing right"? Looks like you've 'bout tortured that poor FAL enough! Show some mercy and respect. :-)

Send it to us or one of the others on the forum that re-finish professionally. BTW, we have a special going on FALs this month. See our site for more details. Good luck with the project. BTW, you might not want to torch the lower as it can affect tempering.

------------------
Jim M
PCS, Inc.
Industrial Metal Coating
Industrial Metal Coating
jimm@webzone.net
Protect the Second Amendment!!!

**W.E.G.** · January 24, 2001, 09:41

Quote:

Originally posted by JimM:
...you might not want to torch the lower as it can affect tempering...

I ran across a book back in '79 at Va. Tech called "Phase Diagrams in Metallurgy." I can remember thinking, "This is what I really should be studying here." But, the prerequisite for the class was 5-hour calculus...which completely kicked my butt. I wonder if anybody who DID manage to take that class can tell us how hot you gotta get a piece of cold-rolled steel in order to significantly affect the hardness by hosing it with an aerosol solvent while still warm/hot?

Oh well...back to drawing that logo.

JimM · January 25, 2001, 10:09

Gary,

Don't know the metalurgical specifics (not sure I want to), but my old Boy Scout manual (wish I still had it) said not to leave your ax or knives near a camp fire as it could affect tempering. (paraphrasing on my part). Also there's a small block about a half inch by half inch welded into the lower just above the pistol grip stud. The difference in hardness due to the welding shows up as a slight color variation when parkering. Most people probably wouldn't notice. This difference in hardness could also affect your blueing, but this is a guess on my part. Keep us up on your project!

------------------
Jim M
PCS, Inc.
Industrial Metal Coating
Industrial Metal Coating
jimm@webzone.net
Protect the Second Amendment!!!

**sturmgrenadiere** · January 30, 2001, 00:09

Gary, I must admit your post has moved me. Or maybe that is just dinner, I am not sure. However, I spent this evening at a buddy's auto body shop. Why. Well, today I was sitting at work listening to my Captain ramble to me about something, but I was thinking about the three FALs I am planning to send to various smith's to have built. Then I thought, you know, I have built an 11 second street car and numerous engines, why can't I just build a damn FAL. Hell, the hardest part is the finish. Then I get a call from a buddy who used to be in the Marines with me. He was just calling to catch up, but then I remember he owns a local body shop. I ask if he has a sandblaster. I make plans to hang out with him tonight at his shop while he lifts his truck.

I blasted two R1 lowers and an STG lower in about 20 minutes, and an R1 stock and set of handguards. I had previously angy beaver dremmeled and stoned the crappy squiggle pencil numbering off the lowers, and the blasting completely cleaned everything up. The stock looks as good as the Penguin Arms stock I bought, and the handguards look fine.

In doing all of this blasting, my buddy and his partner now want to get some FALs, and they said they'd all go in equal on the tools and guages. Jackpot for me. I don't know how I will finally refinish them. BUT, I know it will stick. Hell, if I send them to get parked, I better get a big discount since I have done half the work...

What am I getting at. If you pay postage both ways, I would be delighted to sandblast your lower for you. I live in Cincinnati, Ohio. Email me and let me know (email is in my profile).

[This message has been edited by sturmgrenadiere (edited January 30, 2001).]

Enquiring Minds · January 30, 2001, 06:29

sturm-g, I believe your suggestion violates the WECSOG code of ethics on several points. Also Wiley insists that all tools and compressors be ACME brand... or Dremel.

**stimpsonjcat** · January 30, 2001, 09:16

Does stuff from Harbor Freight count?

peace!

**W.E.G.** · January 30, 2001, 12:23

I'm pondering various means of shortening the barrel by using gravity as the primary source of energy. I briefly contemplated the lay-across-the-train-rail method. But an elder buddy of mine DRIVES trains. I figured he would disapprove. So, in deference to his seniority I crossed that off the list. Bummer. It would have made a great illustration.

How many Dremel cutoff wheels do you reckon it will take to cut the barrel?

At least I do get to use gravity and inertia to render the WECSOG "rollmark" on the receiver.

January 19, 2001, 04:49	#1
W.E.G. Administrator Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 1211 Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Virginia Posts: 31,056	cold bluing R1 lower receiver - WECSOG Allright. I'm stumped. I know, I know. So, what else is new. I'm trying to COLD-BLUE a lower receiver from one of Harlan's R1 wood-stock kits. The finish on the lower looked like hell out of the box. All kinds of goo, and paint and remnants of the ubiquitous bulletproof mystery black finish. Unlike everybody else, I don't have a sandblaster in my basement. But, I only needed to strip one receiver so, I figured I could do it by brute force. And I was reasonably successful...or so I think. First, I did a little light scraping to get the loose stuff off. Then, I roughed up the surface with some coarse steel wool. Next, I coated the receiver with Brownells Rust and Blue Remover gel. I allowed the gel to work for a while, then I attacked it with more coarse steel wool and water. The psychedelic camo-paint came right off. Some of the remaining original finish came off. But, not much. I repeated this process more times than I am willing to admit. Eventually, I got the outside surfaces down to pretty much BARE METAL. There were a few nooks and crannies that didn't want to give up the black bulletproof finish. But, I realized that it was either going to be those last little bits of bulletproof or the last layer of skin on my hands. Seeing as how it is hard to shoot FAL's with no skin, I decided to just live with a bit of remaining bulletproof. Next, I cracked open a brand-new bottle of Brownells Oxpho-Blue. This stuff is supposed to be the cat's pajamas of cold blue juice. I saturated a swath of old long underwear material and commenced to swab the bare surfaces of the lower receiver. No reaction at all. WTF????!!!! Repeat steps above with Rust & Blue remover gel and steel wool. Repeat application of Oxpho-Blue. Again, no reaction. Metal still plain bare metal. Begin to wonder what this metal is. Could it be stainless??? Is this some sort of plated finish??? Is this really steel??? Decide to bring out the BIG GUN: EASY-OFF HEAVY DUTY OVEN CLEANER. If this stuff won't strip whatever is keeping the cold-blue from the metal, I don't know what will. Inundate receiver with it. Almost asphyxiate myself at 1:00 a.m. in the basement with this stuff. I mean it is evil. Toss receiver in utility sink to react overnight. Hope receiver is still there by dawn. Wake up, hose off receiver, scrub and buff some more with coarse steel wool. Reapply Oxpho-Blue. AAAAAAAARRRRRGGGHH!!!! STILL NO REACTION! Conclude that this Oxpho-Blue stuff must be some kind of snake oil. Spot dirty, oily, 3-evil-features-in-one Belgian flash hider sitting on workbench. No finish left on that thing. Grab sloppy piece of long underwear still dripping Oxpho-Blue. Wrap around Belgian thingy, and wipe a few times. Whoa! Bare Belgian thingy instantly transformed to decently-blued Belgian thingy. This Oxpho-Blue stuff DOES work. SO, CAN SOMEBODY TELL ME WHY WON'T IT WORK ON THE LOWER RECEIVER???? [ September 19, 2001: Message edited by: gary.jeter ] __________________ . . . Ask me about the Mason-Dixon FAL Collectors Association.

January 19, 2001, 05:06	#2
Wadman Registered FALaholic #: 1095 Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: North East Illinois Posts: 2,820	It won't work on the lower because it's actually made out of multiphased organic metal. It's actually alive! All kidding aside, can you score a part of the lower that doesn't show and see if there's a layer of something? That would tell you if it's plated. There's no way this thing is alloy, is there? A magnet would verify that for you. __________________ The low road is frequently a four lane highway with no speed limit. Help Save the Kitties

January 19, 2001, 05:24	#3
MG-70 Registered FALaholic #: 753 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Mid-Atlantic U.S. Posts: 905	Seems like you need some heavy duty paint stripper, that is, assuming it's some sort of epoxy or enamel finish. If that's the case and you find it, let me know 'cause I'd like to give the P-35 another shot (regular Stripeeze didn't do jack!). Good luck, MG-70 __________________ "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” Quote from Commonplace Book by Thomas Jefferson [borrowed from Cesare Beccaria’s 1764 Dei delitti e delle pene, "On Crimes and Punishments"]

January 19, 2001, 07:23	#6
stimpsonjcat Windoze free since 1-2010 Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 470 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Dawsonville, GA Posts: 4,206	Ahhhhhhhhhhh! Good Lord no...not 200 GRIT!?!?! The coarsest (sp?) I would consider would be 600 or more. Actually, I would try using a wire wheel on it if I couldn't get access to a blaster. You can get the wire wheels at Lowes or what not. I have seen the "too polished to take blue" thing happen before...but it sounds like you still have a coating to deal with. Good luck and please don't use the dremel on it peace! __________________ peace! Happiness=UPS+ORMD "Your 8mm FAL is like a deuce coup with a Ferrari pancake 12 under the hood and a Jaguar rear end. It just kinda transcends cool into fantasy."- USMC 0341 "The stimpgewehr is the reason Waldo is hiding."- Kotengu Cause I can still hear his voice when I put it to my shoulder, "A guns like a woman son, it's all how you hold her."

January 19, 2001, 23:16	#9
Dave1 Registered FALaholic #: 156 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: First left past nowhere in MN Posts: 1,201	Gary, try this. Get a green scotch bright pad from under the kitchen sink, a real 3m one, not a cheap imitation, use that instead of steel wool to work in the cold blue, you'll be suprised. my.02 Dave ------------------ Second Place is Just the First Loser NRA Life Member __________________ Barack Obama, the best gun salesman since Bill Clinton NRA Life Member, SAF Defender Club, Life Member

January 19, 2001, 06:08	#4
QA Commando Registered FALaholic #: 1447 Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 5	Don't know if this applies, but it might help some. I had to replace a nut on my bipod after one fell off. The only one I could find with the right threads was a standard 6-sided one. I ground off the edges and filed it flatter to get the right shape. Then I stoned it to make it nice and smooth. Finally, I tried to cold blue it and, just like yours, nothing happened!. The bluing just beaded up on the surface. I then took the file to it and roughed up the surface a bit, and then the bluing worked! I concluded that I got the surface too smooth for the bluing to work. Is that possible?

January 19, 2001, 06:22	#5
ce Registered FALaholic #: 373 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,907	Dude,what's with all the noxious fuming foul stench spewming? When in doubt, GRIND! 200 grit sandpaper, rubbed vigorously across all exposed surface will prepare your lower for a coating of Rustoleum Sulfate, a superior, space age finish, available at apothecary and specialty shops like Walmart. Once applied, the Rustoleum treated surface is allowed to cure in a hot area for two days. Summer, on roof, winter, next to furnace. Once cured, the coating is impervious to chemical attack, except in cases of obstinate perserverance. Remember to pre-treat all areas with Tech 2000 carburator cleaner, also from Walmart($.78) to completely remove all residuesfrom surface. The satin finish Patio furniture treatment should duplicate bullet proof standards after adequate curing process.(30 years) Curing is accelerated by exposure to extremes,i.e. desert sun, African bush, deep sea pressure, weightless conditions in outer space or other adversities.

January 19, 2001, 07:41	#7
Buk Registered FALaholic #: 1720 Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Seminary, MS USA Posts: 61	I'd suspect oil from the steel wool is preventing the cold blue from working (steel wool does have oil in it). After you're through steel wooling it next time, wash the receiver good with Dawn, Joy, or whatever you have. Don't touch it with bare hands, wear cotton gloves. Dip the receiver in a pot of boiling water for a few minutes, shake the water off, the heat will dry it, apply the cold blue. Let us know what happens. HTH Duncan

January 19, 2001, 07:42	#8
ce Registered FALaholic #: 373 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,907	Come, come, my dear Stimpson, you're not afraid of a few SCRATCHES, now, eh wot ? Actually, the same too smooth to work applies here. Yes, it is amazing how the 200 grit will DESTROY that erstwhile impervious finish, I mean, it just eats it away, grinding down to bare metal in no time. You would think that all those grind marks would be apparent, but in actuality, a rough or porous surface gives the paint somewhere to dig a good firm hold into, not just a smooth surface to cling on. This even works on stocks, as the coat builds up it smooths right on out. On the first application, you can see the "nap" of the ground on plastic craze as the solvent excites it, then it all melds together to something thats smooth and soft to the touch. And girls like it, too.

January 20, 2001, 03:39	#10
Doubleought Registered FALaholic #: 815 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,107	Hey Gary, If all else fails try acid etching. Mix a VERY weak solution of muriatic acid and water. After degreasing soak parts for about 30 minutes. You might see "beer bubbles" rising off of the parts. Keep an eye on the part. You want to etch the surface but not remove metal. Use some type of tongs to remove parts from acid and rinse in cold water for a few minutes. Part will have a dull grey look, but that won't affect the finish of the bluing. Do not dry the part. Go immediately from rinse to bluing. If you dry the part it will begin to rust before your eyes! Just swab the blue over the part to wash any water away. Then rinse, dry and oil coat. I let the part "cure" overnight, applying more oil every once in a while. It's amazing how much oil the metal will soak up. NOTE: Be sure to pour acid slowly into the water, not the water into the acid. I've read that white vinegar will work also, but I've never tried it.

January 20, 2001, 07:28	#11
Zulu5Oscar Registered FALaholic #: 2182 Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 14	Like most of us I like to polish things off rather nicely mirror finish ie. feedramp on a 1911 or BHP. But not for bluing. Well just like the others said if it is too polished it will not take it on. Get open up the "pores" on the receiver ( is ALIVE, isn't it ) and it will take the blue. As for the steel wool I would suggest to go outside ( to avoid fumes ) if possible and burn it to remove the oil. Apply the cold blue and polish off with the burned steel wool. Repeat ad infinitum And it will blue. Very important. I have noticed that best results are achieved by washing the part in HOT weater in between treatments. I know all this was said before but I am repeating it to add to the pile. If you give up try fireplace or oven paint available at many trade shops. Hope it helps

January 20, 2001, 08:03	#12
Apache66 Registered FALaholic #: 776 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Webster City Iowa USA Posts: 120	Here's a shot in the dark: Could the lower be made of Aluminium? Oxpho won't blue it at all, or an steel alloy of some kind? Call Brownells and talk to a tech rep, those guys are really helpful, they will know what to do. __________________ Lord, let me be the man my dog thinks I am. A priest and a rabbi walk into a bar, the bartender looks up and says " what is this, some kind of joke?"

January 20, 2001, 08:13	#13
Bubba Registered FALaholic #: 88 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: The Hills of TX Posts: 331	I cold blued one of my STG lowers and it didn't take as easily as some other parts. That area where they hardened it didn't take at all. 'TILL I set the lower on my woodstove and got it about 200 degrees. I wound up putting about eight or ten coats of blue and heated it between each before it was black. Maybe that will help? Bubba. __________________ Praise the FAL, Bubba.

January 20, 2001, 09:03	#14
W.E.G. Administrator Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 1211 Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Virginia Posts: 31,056	Lots of great suggestions. I tried a little sandpaper right behind the grip mount bolt. I figured if I buggered that spot up, at least it wouldn't show when the rifle was assembled. I tried 400 grit at first. This polished the metal to a very smooth finish. The blue didn't take at all to that area. So, I moved up to 240 grit. This roughed the surface a bit, but not badly. This time the blue kinda reacted. Purplish mottled effect. Hideous. The wife is going out of town on biz next week. That should be an opening to mix noxious chemicals and cook FAL parts on the kitchen stove. I like the etching and heat suggestions. As an observation of the receiver in the white, it looks like the manufacturer abraded the surface after the receiver was formed. After all, it is only a chunk of sheet metal. Presumably this was done in order to get the right surface for application of Bulletproof. The sheet metal probably started as a smooth sheet. I can see abrasion patterns which look consistent with what you would get when sanding it after it was formed. Probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 grit to get that texture. I better make sure I got enough clean drawers to get me through the week. __________________ . . . Ask me about the Mason-Dixon FAL Collectors Association.

January 20, 2001, 11:41	#15
twodog Registered FALaholic #: 750 Join Date: Aug 2000 Posts: 602	Make sure you wash the underwear first.

January 20, 2001, 19:15	#17
Dean P banned FALaholic #: 494 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Texas Posts: 7,101	Don't think I have read any thing dummer than then this entire string, you need to let a pro do it for you, before you blue your toenails.

January 21, 2001, 04:22	#18
Doubleought Registered FALaholic #: 815 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,107	That would take all the fun out of it! Besides, you KNOW Gary isn't gonna' quit until he finally gets it right!

January 21, 2001, 13:24	#20
Zulu5Oscar Registered FALaholic #: 2182 Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 14	All kidding aside you wil have chain smoker fingers and nails unless you wear some gloves.

January 21, 2001, 19:11	#21
Zulu5Oscar Registered FALaholic #: 2182 Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 14	Gary why don't you call it WTF Case hardening

January 21, 2001, 19:15	#22
W.E.G. Administrator Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 1211 Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Virginia Posts: 31,056	The little lady is still in town. But, I couldn't wait. I sneaked into the basement and fired up the propane torch. With the torch standing on the floor, I held the R1 receiver in the flame (like toasting marshmallows) until it was toasty. Splashed some Oxpho-Blue on a paper towel, and commenced to wiping the receiver. Some amount of sizzling of Oxpho-Blue later, the receiver did react with the chemical. Looked pretty bad. No more than 10% coverage. Very interesting that the tang of the receiver (the part that sticks off the bottom, and attaches to the stock) didn't react at all. Too embarrassed to let anybody see this mess, I attacked the receiver with a big wad of 240 grit sandpaper. I tried to keep all the strokes in one direction. The receiver polished-up pretty nicely. I was REAL tempted to leave it "in the white." The tang was a goldish color. Unwilling to leave well enough alone, I sneaked into the workshop for another toasting session with the torch. I didn't let it get as hot this time. Probably around 140 degrees. Another wet paper towel with Oxpho-Blue and onto the receiver with it. More reaction this time. Maybe 35%. Looks better...but only in a relative sense. The pic looks better than it looks in real life. The areas that appear to be covered in the pic have a striated and/or mottled appearance. I call it the special "Jeter-WTF-basement camo" pattern. I can't take credit (or blame) for the finish on the recoil spring tube. It is still coated in the original Bulletproof finish. Bottom line in my opinion, the only way this thing is ever gonna cold blue in any respectable fashion is to get it to the sandblaster. The sandblaster could get all the nooks and crannies and curves like the sandpaper can't. Moreover, the blaster would give a uniform surface pattern. Maybe another 5 hours of sanding would get the surface in condition to take the blue. Even then, it would proabably still be questionable at the curves and angles. [ September 19, 2001: Message edited by: gary.jeter ] __________________ . . . Ask me about the Mason-Dixon FAL Collectors Association.

January 21, 2001, 20:07	#23
SrBenelli Registered FALaholic #: 672 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 1,431	Know what your problem is?????? You ain't CUSSED at it enough!!! How can you expect to make it work without a %$&&, and @@#(%## or even a half-dozen @^^&%$!!@#!!!!!!s? And remember, if at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer! And if it breaks, well F^@K IT! It needed fixin' in the first place! ------------------ If we could just get everyone to close their eyes for 15 minutes and visualise world peace, imagine how quiet...how serene it would be....till the looting started! [This message has been edited by SrBenelli (edited January 21, 2001).] __________________ Ask me about the Carolina FAL'ers! If we could just get everyone to close their eyes for 15 minutes and visualise world peace, imagine how quiet...how serene it would be....till the looting started! :fal:

January 21, 2001, 22:03	#24
Bruce Registered FALaholic #: 1049 Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Honeoye, NY Posts: 72	This sure is an interesting thread, Gary. I'm not a chemist, but I am a toolmaker and the test we use to check for stainless is a magnet or copper sulphate. All carbon steels (which should be blue-able) will be magnetic, as will 400 series stainless, if memory serves. 300 series stainless will not be magnetic. Copper sulphate, which used to be available in drug stores, will turn carbon steels orange when rubbed on. It will have no effect on any stainless. Do you know any diemakers? They will have copper sulphate, or "blue vitriol," as it's usually called. Do you know anyone with access to a sandblaster, as was already suggested? Some auto body shops, factories, etc. will have them. At this point, that seems your best bet. Good luck, and let us know the final outcome! __________________ "Tyranny is always better organized than freedom." -- Charles Peguy Want free ammo to fire at gun-hating liberals? Go to: http://www.geocities.com/branlin/liberty.html

January 21, 2001, 22:21	#25
law4fun Rest in Peace 03/03/1958 - 01/08/2008 FALaholic #: 1544 Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Pryor, OK, USA Posts: 994	Gary, Just bite the bullet, so to speak, and send the #%^#$)@ thing out and get it parked along with the barrel assembly to match the Imbel...I know it is SA and I know it is supposed to look like it had been drug through elephant crap, but the poor thing has been through enough. The only thing worse is if you were going to put that Hesse on it! (VBG) Talk about going on strike. It would never, ever function for you again. Jim __________________ GOD BLESS AMERICA !!! TX-FNFAL - A Brigade of One

January 22, 2001, 00:26	#26
W.E.G. Administrator Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 1211 Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Virginia Posts: 31,056	Harrrrumph! Anybody can BUY a pretty gun. A man's gotta work hard to build a really UGLY gun! __________________ . . . Ask me about the Mason-Dixon FAL Collectors Association.

January 22, 2001, 03:04	#27
paintballmagnet Registered FALaholic #: 1186 Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: AR U.S.A. Posts: 374	Gary, Send it to me and I'll take it to work, beadblast and parkerize it for you. Free of charge! If you are interested, attach a price to your lower. I'll buy it from you, do the work, then sell it back for what I paid. This will prevent the worry of me ripping you off for a lower. We use phosphoric acid solution park in a 5 tank system to prevent air-conditioner compressor internals we build from rusting.

January 22, 2001, 11:13	#29
Snakeshot Registered FALaholic #: 909 Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Alfalfaville, NV Posts: 4,048	Gary, over the weekend I also cold-blued a SA lower. It came out really nice. Methinks with yours that there is still oil and grease in the pores of the metal. Mine got Chem-Dip, Simple Green, baked in the oven and then degreaser. I heated it up and wiped on Birchwood-Casey Perma Blue paste. Soaked it up like a dry sponge. Did all the little parts as well.HTH. __________________ "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." Frederic Bastiat

January 22, 2001, 13:44	#31
Snakeshot Registered FALaholic #: 909 Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Alfalfaville, NV Posts: 4,048	Gary, 300 deg. for 45 min. I should add that I blued everything twice with a light buffing in between and soaked the blued parts in Mobil 1 5w/30 overnight. I am now cleaning everything off (some kind of funky residue) and reassembling and if I may say so it looks great.HTH. __________________ "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." Frederic Bastiat

January 22, 2001, 13:48	#32
W.E.G. Administrator Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 1211 Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Virginia Posts: 31,056	What is Chem-Dip? __________________ . . . Ask me about the Mason-Dixon FAL Collectors Association.

January 22, 2001, 13:55	#33
Snakeshot Registered FALaholic #: 909 Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Alfalfaville, NV Posts: 4,048	Gary, Chem-Dip is pure liquid evil. You can find it at the auto parts store. It comes in a 1 gallon can (like a paint can) and has a really nice S.S. basket that drops in. It will remove paint (well not the bulletproof stuff), dirt and grease. It saves me a LOT of time on that wonderful S.A. surplus stuff. Oh, and it retails for $10.00 in these parts.HTH. __________________ "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." Frederic Bastiat

January 22, 2001, 22:27	#34
W.E.G. Administrator Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 1211 Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Virginia Posts: 31,056	A LITTLE BIT OF PROGRESS I took the average of a lot of advice that y'all threw at me. I decided not to try the acid method. I've gotten through this so far with only a mashed thumb and otherwise really dirty hands. Even managed to piss off a few people with my blitherings. I take that as a sign that success must be close by. But, seeing as how my chemistry study pretty much ended when I burned up all the saltpeter and sulfur in the chemistry set, I figgerd that if I started playing with acid things could get waaaaay to interesting. With the wife out of town today, I was free to attack the ozone layer at full charge. First, I crept outside in the dark and fired up the propane torch, and resumed my FAL-marshmallow-roast. This pretty well burned-off all the Break-Free I had coated on it to prevent rust. Next, I grabbed a can of aerosol carburetor cleaner (after extinguishing the torch) and hosed-down the receiver. I'm pretty sure I never got the receiver hot enough for the spray to have any adverse quenching effect on the metallurgy. With the receiver still warm, I went back inside. There, I poured a puddle of Oxpho-Blue in a wide-bottomed plastic container. I used a small pad of coarse steel wool (no special treatment or sterilization) to scrub the Oxpho-Blue onto the receiver. Hey cool! Getting some reaction here! I repeated the process a couple more times. Here is the result Good from far...but far from good. I'd say fair. But, probably about right as compared to the rest of the kit of which it is a part. I reckon my meager refinishing skills will help the part not "forget where it came from." [ September 19, 2001: Message edited by: gary.jeter ] __________________ . . . Ask me about the Mason-Dixon FAL Collectors Association.

January 23, 2001, 00:03	#35
CF700 Registered FALaholic #: 2054 Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 51	Gary, Had to put my two cents in on the jeter-WTF project. I used oxpho-blue before and had similar frustration with a barrel from an M-1 carbine. It wasn't material related as some of the barrel would take the finish and other areas wouldn't, just as you described. What it ultimately came down to is a combination of things suggested from the various post above - clean, I mean really clean, bare metal, which was achieved with alcohol and various grits of emery cloth: started with 120 finished with 400. After a lot playing around, it worked and it looks a lot better than when I started. Good luck! I know what your thinking; it's too bad Dremmel doesn't make a sandblaster.

January 23, 2001, 00:07	#36
Wadman Registered FALaholic #: 1095 Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: North East Illinois Posts: 2,820	So what exactly did they do to the metal? A friend sandblasted the lower receiver for me and it sits here in the white while I figure out what/how to finish it. It's been like this for over a week now and still no sign of rust. I've certainly handled it enough to get oil from my hands on it. __________________ The low road is frequently a four lane highway with no speed limit. Help Save the Kitties

January 23, 2001, 18:11	#39
Bubba Registered FALaholic #: 88 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: The Hills of TX Posts: 331	Gary, sorry my advise didn't help much. I had problems with the blue taking at first on my receiver, but I guess it wasn't as bad as yours. I remember puting about 10 coats of blue before it looked good enough. My blueing sizzled too. __________________ Praise the FAL, Bubba.

January 23, 2001, 20:22	#41
Snakeshot Registered FALaholic #: 909 Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Alfalfaville, NV Posts: 4,048	Come on Gary, stay with it , don't give up, you will be surprised at what a fine hand polishing such as you have been doing will result in after the final finish. You putting that with that wood R1 buttstock? And Dean P., you speak the truth, but it is fun to play with! [This message has been edited by Snakeshot (edited January 23, 2001).] __________________ "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." Frederic Bastiat

January 23, 2001, 20:28	#42
Dean P banned FALaholic #: 494 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Texas Posts: 7,101	May I say something without pissing anyone off? Cold blue is short life , only good for a touchup, not for the entire gun, a ratty finish at best. Oil & grease free about 100 degrees works best for me.Keep your hands off, use latex or rubber gloves.Avoid steel wool, it does have oil in it. When you apply the cold blue, give it time to set or rust, don't use a synthetic oil on it or brakefree type oil. Some steel would be hard to blue that has been heated to form or forge the lower receiver. Parkerizing is the best way.