Hesse Build/WECSOG Application

milton · August 20, 2001, 13:54

Finally got started on my first build this weekend. I'm putting together an R1 kit on a Hesse stainless steel without the carry handle cut receiver.

Jayson of Investment Grade Firearms cut my R1 barrel down to around 18" and installed an EAI Zero Climb muzzle brake. Super job, thanks again. My R1 kit is par for the course with little finish or paint left. The best thing that can be said for it is that it has a very good bore. It also came with the long butt stock, so I "borrowed" the one from the Imbel kit. Any long armed people out there need a stock - WTT???

The only problem I've discovered with the Hesse receiver was that the retaining screw hole for the BHO device and the magazine release was a little tight. A couple of light taps with my brass hammer fixed it!! For the price and the effort to date, I'm very happy. The barrel timed to 11:00 o'clock, so it was time for the big tug.

My receiver wrench fits in my 6" vice with the barrel pointed up at the ceiling. I've got both an 1 1/16 inch and a 27mm wrench. The inch wrench was a good fit, but the 27mm was a better "tap" fit. Slapped on some Moly past and started yanking.

Unfortunately, in installing the barrel this way, I can't use the two rod method to check timing as I go. Therefore, I would have to tighten the barrel by eyeball, remove the barrel, and then check the timing. The first three times, I kept over timing the barrel. Too much spinach!! Finally, I took a scratch awl and made a mark where the barrel and receiver joined. Then I was able to see when I moved the barrel just a wee bit and got the proper timing. Double checked it with the two rods, then on to the lower assembly and head spacing.

Oh, as part of my application, in walking to the house from my shed, I looked down and discovered a two inch bleeding scratch on my right forearm. Got no clue how I did it. I'm inside showing my wife and 3 year old boy my handy work and all they want to do is keep asking my why I'm bleeding. Daddy's booboo. Daddy's booboo. I don't think he was talking about my rifle??

The FSE h/s/t dropped right in with no problems.

In stripping the bolt, I discovered something useful. I've got a set of Snap On picks, which includes one that looks like Captain Hook's hook. It's about 4" long with a small black handle. I bet Sears has something similar. I found that I could use it to hook into the extractor spring takedown hole and compress it with no problem. (With the bolt flat on a table, hook the plunger hole and fully compress it. You can then use your thumb on the end of the bolt to maintain the compression. You may have to use your other hand to get everything in position during the initial compression. Warning, I didn't slip, but watch your other hand in case you do. Clear as mud??) Once compressed, I could then install/remove the extractor with no problem with my free hand. Did it a couple of times and it works super easy for me.

Using Foster's Go/No-Go gauges, I found that I need a .264 locking shoulder. Of course, the one that came with the kit is a .260 and my Imbel is a .259. I've got to look at the one with my G-1, but I'm not holding my breath. Oh well. Once I get one, I'll let you know how it runs. In all it has gone much better than I expected. I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop!! So far I've kept my Dremel in my pocket, but it aint over yet.

Labor day weekend we are visiting friends in Florida. I'm going to shoot it then (if not before) and let you know how it went. After I refinish it, I'll post some pictures.

Thanks for all the Board's help. You folks are great.

1006587 · August 20, 2001, 15:21

Hey, back up. You're saying the Hesse went together without any major problems?

milton · August 20, 2001, 15:59

Yep, assembly went smooth, but she aint running yet.

**W.E.G.** · August 20, 2001, 16:05

We're rootin' for ya amigo.

milton · August 21, 2001, 08:31

Thanks Gary. Your project crossed my mind more than once this past weekend. That's why I'm keeping my enthusiasm in check until I see how it runs.

Wrangler100 · August 22, 2001, 01:43

Milton- I have a long reach and will be happy to trade you an STG-58 butt stock for your long stock. Check your email.

[ August 22, 2001: Message edited by: Wrangler100 ]

milton · September 18, 2001, 12:44

Great lunch. Fired an FAL for the first time. Ran to the local range to see if it's alive. Fired off three single rounds to set the gas system. Going to have to enlarge the port, because it's running at 2.5. Loaded 5 rounds - all fired with no problems. Starting to get happy. Loaded the remaining 12 rounds from the box (SA Ball), all fired with no problems. I'm a happy camper. Next trip will check zero and the enlarged gas port. The only Hesse problem I'm still fighting is with the BHO device. It works fine with new mags, but does not work with slightly used ones. I had to extend the actuating pin and I'm not sure if this is causing the BHO to bind. I took 320 sandpaper last night and smoothed everything, so I don't think it's a result of rough casting. Anyone else fighting this problem? Thanks.

**W.E.G.** · September 18, 2001, 13:45

This issue of new vs. used magazines and malfunctions is best addressed by using NEW springs in the old mags. If the new springs solve the problem, you will by the same act have identified the problem. Conversely, if the new springs don't solve the problem, you can start looking toward other parts as the problem.

milton · September 18, 2001, 14:14

I'm with you, but I still see a problem. I've got 20 mags, 10 new and 10 used. None of the used ones will trip the BHO device. I'll swap springs, but I'm sure the used mag with a new spring will work fine. Makes me think somethings up. I find it odd that once the mag has some wear, it will not trip the BHO. I think the retaining pin for the BHO is down too far, which increases the amount of pressure need to trip the BHO beyond normal. Thus, only the brand new ones will work and probably for just a short period of time. I think you've hit the nail on the head, it's an out of spec receiver. I'm just glad it goes boom and all my fingers and toes are still here. If all else fails, I'll go British by cutting off the actuating pin and drill witness holes in all my mags. Still I like a BHO, so if anyone has found a cure, please share.

FWRA · September 18, 2001, 15:16

Quote:

Originally posted by milton:
I'm with you, but I still see a problem. I've got 20 mags, 10 new and 10 used. None of the used ones will trip the BHO device. I'll swap springs, but I'm sure the used mag with a new spring will work fine. Makes me think somethings up. I find it odd that once the mag has some wear, it will not trip the BHO. I think the retaining pin for the BHO is down too far, which increases the amount of pressure need to trip the BHO beyond normal. Thus, only the brand new ones will work and probably for just a short period of time. I think you've hit the nail on the head, it's an out of spec receiver. I'm just glad it goes boom and all my fingers and toes are still here. If all else fails, I'll go British by cutting off the actuating pin and drill witness holes in all my mags. Still I like a BHO, so if anyone has found a cure, please share.

Take a look at your ejector block. Sounds to me like it may not be installed properly and that will cause the problem you describe.
Make sure it's not too low or too high or even a bit crooked. If the holes are not properly drilled for the ejector block (stainless is tough and the drill could walk off) then that's your culprit.

Easy to compare with another receiver (Imbel?) to be sure, or a quick peek at a friends rifle will do the trick too.

I doubt if mags are your problem. It's never an easy fix and I sure hope I'm wrong. :-)

HTH

Mark Powell

[ September 18, 2001: Message edited by: FWRA ]

milton · September 20, 2001, 08:33

Thanks Mark. I think you're right. I had trouble installing the BHO retaining screw due to some binding, which would be explained by the ejector block being off a tad. I've got another receiver and will start doing some measurements. It's off such a small amount, but the result seems to be too much pressure by the BHO return spring. The BHO has plenty of room to move up and engage the bolt. One fix that I'm thinking about is pulling the BHO apart and reducing the plunger a little bit to reduce the amount of pressure the mag spring has to over come. I'm sure there is a thin line here, because too much off may result in the bolt being retained unintentionally. Thanks for the input. Anybody else fighting this problem?

[ September 20, 2001: Message edited by: milton ]

usmc326 · September 20, 2001, 09:52

Milton: Check the archives. About 1-2 months ago about 6 guys were seriously discussing this, as the non-stainless Hesse's had the hole out of spec: off a tad, or different depth. Everyone gave their solutions & hints, including a couple of drawings with measurements. I recall that a couple were pretty ingenious...these WECSOG's
never cease to amaze me.
If it wasn't for Clinton I don't think most of us would have an FAL(s), maybe
that's his legacy...battle rifle proliferation? I was happy with my M1A's & others, but to actually be able to design YOUR own rifle? Can't beat that.

milton · September 20, 2001, 10:44

usmc326, thanks for the heads up. I've been trying to follow all the Hesse posts and the only one I've seen with a lot of measurements was one regarding head spacing. I'm happy with that aspect of my mutt. It shoots great, but I do want to fix this BHO issue before I start refinishing. I did another search and didn't see anything. If anyone knows of another, please shoot me a link. Thanks again.

August 20, 2001, 13:54	#1
milton Registered FALaholic #: 3255 Join Date: May 2001 Location: Spartanburg, South Carolina Posts: 60	Hesse Build/WECSOG Application Finally got started on my first build this weekend. I'm putting together an R1 kit on a Hesse stainless steel without the carry handle cut receiver. Jayson of Investment Grade Firearms cut my R1 barrel down to around 18" and installed an EAI Zero Climb muzzle brake. Super job, thanks again. My R1 kit is par for the course with little finish or paint left. The best thing that can be said for it is that it has a very good bore. It also came with the long butt stock, so I "borrowed" the one from the Imbel kit. Any long armed people out there need a stock - WTT??? The only problem I've discovered with the Hesse receiver was that the retaining screw hole for the BHO device and the magazine release was a little tight. A couple of light taps with my brass hammer fixed it!! For the price and the effort to date, I'm very happy. The barrel timed to 11:00 o'clock, so it was time for the big tug. My receiver wrench fits in my 6" vice with the barrel pointed up at the ceiling. I've got both an 1 1/16 inch and a 27mm wrench. The inch wrench was a good fit, but the 27mm was a better "tap" fit. Slapped on some Moly past and started yanking. Unfortunately, in installing the barrel this way, I can't use the two rod method to check timing as I go. Therefore, I would have to tighten the barrel by eyeball, remove the barrel, and then check the timing. The first three times, I kept over timing the barrel. Too much spinach!! Finally, I took a scratch awl and made a mark where the barrel and receiver joined. Then I was able to see when I moved the barrel just a wee bit and got the proper timing. Double checked it with the two rods, then on to the lower assembly and head spacing. Oh, as part of my application, in walking to the house from my shed, I looked down and discovered a two inch bleeding scratch on my right forearm. Got no clue how I did it. I'm inside showing my wife and 3 year old boy my handy work and all they want to do is keep asking my why I'm bleeding. Daddy's booboo. Daddy's booboo. I don't think he was talking about my rifle?? The FSE h/s/t dropped right in with no problems. In stripping the bolt, I discovered something useful. I've got a set of Snap On picks, which includes one that looks like Captain Hook's hook. It's about 4" long with a small black handle. I bet Sears has something similar. I found that I could use it to hook into the extractor spring takedown hole and compress it with no problem. (With the bolt flat on a table, hook the plunger hole and fully compress it. You can then use your thumb on the end of the bolt to maintain the compression. You may have to use your other hand to get everything in position during the initial compression. Warning, I didn't slip, but watch your other hand in case you do. Clear as mud??) Once compressed, I could then install/remove the extractor with no problem with my free hand. Did it a couple of times and it works super easy for me. Using Foster's Go/No-Go gauges, I found that I need a .264 locking shoulder. Of course, the one that came with the kit is a .260 and my Imbel is a .259. I've got to look at the one with my G-1, but I'm not holding my breath. Oh well. Once I get one, I'll let you know how it runs. In all it has gone much better than I expected. I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop!! So far I've kept my Dremel in my pocket, but it aint over yet. Labor day weekend we are visiting friends in Florida. I'm going to shoot it then (if not before) and let you know how it went. After I refinish it, I'll post some pictures. Thanks for all the Board's help. You folks are great.

August 20, 2001, 15:21	#2
1006587 Registered FALaholic #: 2853 Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 1,981	Hey, back up. You're saying the Hesse went together without any major problems? __________________ Any excuse will serve a tyrant. Aesop (~550 BC)

August 20, 2001, 16:05	#4
W.E.G. Administrator Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 1211 Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Virginia Posts: 31,055	We're rootin' for ya amigo. __________________ . . . Ask me about the Mason-Dixon FAL Collectors Association.

August 22, 2001, 01:43	#6
Wrangler100 Registered FALaholic #: 297 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: NAS Keflavik, Iceland Posts: 437	Milton- I have a long reach and will be happy to trade you an STG-58 butt stock for your long stock. Check your email. [ August 22, 2001: Message edited by: Wrangler100 ] __________________ Iceland is better than kalifornia.

September 18, 2001, 13:45	#8
W.E.G. Administrator Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 1211 Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Virginia Posts: 31,055	This issue of new vs. used magazines and malfunctions is best addressed by using NEW springs in the old mags. If the new springs solve the problem, you will by the same act have identified the problem. Conversely, if the new springs don't solve the problem, you can start looking toward other parts as the problem. __________________ . . . Ask me about the Mason-Dixon FAL Collectors Association.

August 20, 2001, 15:59	#3
milton Registered FALaholic #: 3255 Join Date: May 2001 Location: Spartanburg, South Carolina Posts: 60	Yep, assembly went smooth, but she aint running yet.

August 21, 2001, 08:31	#5
milton Registered FALaholic #: 3255 Join Date: May 2001 Location: Spartanburg, South Carolina Posts: 60	Thanks Gary. Your project crossed my mind more than once this past weekend. That's why I'm keeping my enthusiasm in check until I see how it runs.

September 18, 2001, 12:44	#7
milton Registered FALaholic #: 3255 Join Date: May 2001 Location: Spartanburg, South Carolina Posts: 60	Great lunch. Fired an FAL for the first time. Ran to the local range to see if it's alive. Fired off three single rounds to set the gas system. Going to have to enlarge the port, because it's running at 2.5. Loaded 5 rounds - all fired with no problems. Starting to get happy. Loaded the remaining 12 rounds from the box (SA Ball), all fired with no problems. I'm a happy camper. Next trip will check zero and the enlarged gas port. The only Hesse problem I'm still fighting is with the BHO device. It works fine with new mags, but does not work with slightly used ones. I had to extend the actuating pin and I'm not sure if this is causing the BHO to bind. I took 320 sandpaper last night and smoothed everything, so I don't think it's a result of rough casting. Anyone else fighting this problem? Thanks.

September 18, 2001, 14:14	#9
milton Registered FALaholic #: 3255 Join Date: May 2001 Location: Spartanburg, South Carolina Posts: 60	I'm with you, but I still see a problem. I've got 20 mags, 10 new and 10 used. None of the used ones will trip the BHO device. I'll swap springs, but I'm sure the used mag with a new spring will work fine. Makes me think somethings up. I find it odd that once the mag has some wear, it will not trip the BHO. I think the retaining pin for the BHO is down too far, which increases the amount of pressure need to trip the BHO beyond normal. Thus, only the brand new ones will work and probably for just a short period of time. I think you've hit the nail on the head, it's an out of spec receiver. I'm just glad it goes boom and all my fingers and toes are still here. If all else fails, I'll go British by cutting off the actuating pin and drill witness holes in all my mags. Still I like a BHO, so if anyone has found a cure, please share.

September 20, 2001, 08:33	#11
milton Registered FALaholic #: 3255 Join Date: May 2001 Location: Spartanburg, South Carolina Posts: 60	Thanks Mark. I think you're right. I had trouble installing the BHO retaining screw due to some binding, which would be explained by the ejector block being off a tad. I've got another receiver and will start doing some measurements. It's off such a small amount, but the result seems to be too much pressure by the BHO return spring. The BHO has plenty of room to move up and engage the bolt. One fix that I'm thinking about is pulling the BHO apart and reducing the plunger a little bit to reduce the amount of pressure the mag spring has to over come. I'm sure there is a thin line here, because too much off may result in the bolt being retained unintentionally. Thanks for the input. Anybody else fighting this problem? [ September 20, 2001: Message edited by: milton ]

September 20, 2001, 09:52	#12
usmc326 Registered FALaholic #: 202 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: MN, USA Posts: 1,322	Milton: Check the archives. About 1-2 months ago about 6 guys were seriously discussing this, as the non-stainless Hesse's had the hole out of spec: off a tad, or different depth. Everyone gave their solutions & hints, including a couple of drawings with measurements. I recall that a couple were pretty ingenious...these WECSOG's never cease to amaze me. If it wasn't for Clinton I don't think most of us would have an FAL(s), maybe that's his legacy...battle rifle proliferation? I was happy with my M1A's & others, but to actually be able to design YOUR own rifle? Can't beat that.

September 20, 2001, 10:44	#13
milton Registered FALaholic #: 3255 Join Date: May 2001 Location: Spartanburg, South Carolina Posts: 60	usmc326, thanks for the heads up. I've been trying to follow all the Hesse posts and the only one I've seen with a lot of measurements was one regarding head spacing. I'm happy with that aspect of my mutt. It shoots great, but I do want to fix this BHO issue before I start refinishing. I did another search and didn't see anything. If anyone knows of another, please shoot me a link. Thanks again.

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