Waterwheel generator

[ER]

Anybody got plans for one? I live in a relatively mountainous area with lots of running creeks and streams that could be used to generate power. I`m a mech engineer, so I`m not overly versed in the ways of the invisible force, but I can build damn near anything. A waterwheel might be a good source of energy for a homesite near a running stream with a lot of fall. I`m looking at buying some land that has a nice stream on it, and plan to put a small cabin on it to "hide" on weekends(from telephones, the `ol lady, etc ) and would prefer to keep the local building code people and power company out of the picture.


(short story..... A local guy once got into a spat with Duke Power for doing this...Duke said that the water was "public domain" or some such $hit and couldn`t be used to produce power without feeding it into the lines for "public consumption". This ended up in court, with Duke Power winning, and the court decreeing that the guy had to tap it into Duke`s lines("public utilities" provided by a PRIVATE company ). The deal was that he had to pay Duke the difference between what his home used and what he "gave back" to Duke Power. Last I heard, Duke is paying him as he generates MORE than he uses )

[ggiilliiee]

yes your govt that wants us to be more self sufficent wont allow yo to do this withot jumping thru hoops ....permits ...ect....ect....ect..i say screw them ..how about the old method of hydraulic water mining ....tank above up hill pipe necked down to a rotary vane pump to run a 12 v alternator ....shouldnt take much to turn one ....100 amps

[Da Nerd]

I believe there is a law that sez the utilities companies HAVE to pay you for power generated like that..including WIND power.
I had a friend who did just that, only he used the irrigation canal that ran behind his house..the electric he generated and pumped into the system during the summer, paid for his bills during the winter.

[Da Nerd]

ER, I would consider a 12v battery system for what you are talking about.
either water or wind or solar would work well.
You would be surprised all the 12v appliances you can get.

[ggiilliiee]

what would you need batteries for ....unless the creekdries up ....modified sine wave inverters....all 110 220 v....dump the excess back into the power line ...and yes they do have to buy it

[Da Nerd]

If your generator is not big enough, you can draw off the batteries, and recharge them while sleeping, hunting etc.
My reading of his post is that he wont have 110V anywhere near.
Yes if you had 110V then dump the excess into the line.

[Da Nerd]

ER do a google search of home hydro electric generator and you will find many site like this.

http://www.utilityfree.com/hydro/

[habe]

About 2 weeks ago, because of an accident on a "main" 2 lane road, I got diverted out through the country on a road I've only been on once or twice. I noticed that one of the houses had some type of water wheel generator running out near the road. It looked homemade, used a bicycle wheel for a waterwheel/flywheel ( I'm guessing??) and wasn't very large. It was being run off a 1 1/2 or 2" pvc pipe coming out of the hill side. Due to all the traffic from the detour, I couldn't get a good look but, the flow from the pipe wasn't exactly roarin' but, none the less, the wheel was turning a moderate speed.

When I get a chance, I'll ride out there again, snap a pic or two (hopefully I won't get shot, it is West Virginia you know), and post them here.

habe

[TheOtherChris]

Try a site like this and also search for Pelton turbines.

Post pics when finished.

[olsarg]

Way I read this he really don't want to tell anyone he has power. More of don't tell don't report. Probly need to design a system that is only connected when he is there. If some one happens to wander on the site don't have anything perment built into the water way. Less to explain don't get the tree huggers on your case they can cause probems.

[Thomas]

I had a set of plans years ago that used a length of 4 inch steel pipe cut in half to build a very efficient water wheel. The water hit both the top and bottom of the wheel. It was being used in underdeveloped countries.
I had not thought of it in years. I will look and see if I still have the plans.

[ggiilliiee]

da nerd i meant to (invert) the gm alternator 12v to 110 ...ac ....wouldnt need batts ...just flip the switch/plug whatever into the outlet
as long as the waters running in the creek

[cycle_rcr]

ER,

I had similar thoughts. Never did the calcs, but the energy available is related to the flow rate and drop distance. rho g h comes to mind. How much water can you drop, and how far. What kind of eff would be expected? 50% ?

Do tell how the thought experiment gos.

[ER]

Provided a couple of contract jobs fall into place this year(looking good to go so far) I plan to purchase 10 acres from a buddy here locally. There`s a stream on it that I have never seen dry, and it runs pretty swift all the time.

I need to figger out the power I would like to consume. A couple of lights, a small radio, small beeridgerator, maybe a portable TV, possibly a small "on demand" water heater. (I can get by with solar heating the resevoir for washing/bathing water in the winter, spring & fall, and just hit the creek in the summer ) Cooking will be by fire or camp stove, and will have wood heat for winter. `Cept for the water heater(may not be feasible), I figger 15-20amps/110v max(2200W) for the fridge and a radio or small TV, plus a light or 2. Will the 12/120V converters work for this?I`ve seen them around, but haven`t looked much at them. My bro-in-law has a junkyard(oops....auto salvage yard )so getting useable alternators(GM makes a 110A unit for the bigger trucks don`t they?) is no problem......edit....here`s a problem(excuse my attempts at being a EE here)..110A at 12vdc is only 1320W, correct? What do the converters do to the available power? What is the efficiency of these type units. Maybe I need to look at regular 110V generators to hook to the wheel.

I`m not looking to do this for a "bug out location". It`s gonna be someplace I can go and relax on weekends and not have to put up with much. I`d like to do the cabin on the cheap so I can pay cash as I go, get it done in a few months, and not finance anything on it. Hence the "indigenous" power source. While not a "remote" location, it is pretty well hidden and off the beaten path a ways.

Pics will be posted when I get it done, but it will prolly be late this summer(again, depending on the jobs falling into place). This is gonna be a learning experience.

[Da Nerd]

If your fridge pulls too much joice, you might look into a propane refridgerator as a last resort.. They work, buy the purchase price is high.

[ggiilliiee]

i used to heat a hot tub i had with a 25 foot piece of copper tubing x1/2 " in a double coil inside of a 11 inch flue welded to a opened up beer keg with a fire stoking door (of course a electric pump to push the water thru it .....but you could just use the natural water pressure coming from a higher holding tank ) burned wood or used a small weed burner (gulps propane though) and at 3gpm (inline flow meter )flow was getting 190 degree water out the end ...scientist buddy weighed the wood used took the temp of the water before /after ....and the unit was putting out around 300,000 btu...for 400 gallons of water ...tapwater cold to 100 degrees.....the wheel ive always thought about using a right angle gear reduction unit ....check the ft lbs it takes to turn the unit and make the cavity on the wheel hold more weight in water ...if you can get 10 rpm on the output side (connected to wheel) on a 150 to 1 gear reducer ...that shoud give ya the 1500 rpm needed for a GM 100 amp alternator....and the wheel wouldnt need to be IN the creek ...you could have it seperate and just pipe water to it

[ONG]

Is the creek near the house? There is a lot of line loss with 12 volt.

[nhcruffler]

A guy I work with is totally off the grid. Solar power to the batteries, then an inverter. Everything is 110v in the house. The house is even a straw bale house. The walls are thick enough that they are filled with bales of straw. That and a small woodburner. That serves his small family in Vermont.

[gunsmoke]

Originally posted by Da Nerd
If your fridge pulls too much joice, you might look into a propane refridgerator as a last resort.. They work, buy the purchase price is high.

YOU MIGHT ALSO WANT TO TAKE A LOOK HERE: http://www.sunfrost.com/

Very pricy, but, super-insulated + highly efficient refrigeration units = very stingy on the juice.

I have one at home and several at my country retreat. They're quiet come in both 12V and 110 and are built like tanks.

EDITED TO ADD: In fact, they are sooooo stingy on the juice you can order them equipped with a UPS for short-term power outages, and SUNFROST will do custom builds.

[OODA_Loop]

Get a copy of 'Home Power' magazine...

[Poccur]

ONG - if you are concerned about line loss....make the conversion to 120/110 ac as close as possible to the water wheel and then transmit the ac...

[ONG]

Originally posted by Poccur
ONG - if you are concerned about line loss....make the conversion to 120/110 ac as close as possible to the water wheel and then transmit the ac...

So you going to have to house your invertor and battery bank there to do that aren't you?

[CZ-75a]

Originally posted by olsarg
Way I read this he really don't want to tell anyone he has power. More of don't tell don't report. Probly need to design a system that is only connected when he is there. If some one happens to wander on the site don't have anything perment built into the water way. Less to explain don't get the tree huggers on your case they can cause probems.

Tree huggers should LOVE this, considering it's non-polluting. Probably kills the baby fishies and smacks Bambi in the face when he's drinking, so I guess it's bad, on second thought.

[CZ-75a]

Originally posted by nhcruffler
A guy I work with is totally off the grid. Solar power to the batteries, then an inverter. Everything is 110v in the house. The house is even a straw bale house. The walls are thick enough that they are filled with bales of straw. That and a small woodburner. That serves his small family in Vermont.

Is this like an "Earthship"?

http://www.earthshipbiotecture.com/

http://www.earthship.org/

[ER]

Probably kills the baby fishies and smacks Bambi in the face when he's drinking

no fish there that I`ve seen, but bambi is gonna die anyway if`n I see it....

[gunsmoke]

http://www.backwoodssolar.com/Catalo...ydropower2.htm


Lots o'good basic hydro power poop on a single page.

[sslocal]

My brother lives in Montana and uses hydro electric power as his main source. This is suplimented with a medium size solar grid. For the real heavy use days, like doing the laundry, he uses a surplus generator.
For his fridge he uses a propane one with a supply tank large enough to decend into the Mariana's Trench.
The only line he has going into his house is the phone line.

It's a nice home with plenty of power for his uses but there ain't nothing like going into the shop and flipping a switch to get light bright enough to give you a sun burn.

[nhcruffler]

CZ-75a wrote

Is this like an "Earthship"?

Well nothing quite as fancy. It something more like this http://www.solarhaven.org/NewStrawbale.htm
Its an inexpencive way to build a very well insulated house. As I recall he finnished the walls with plaster. He and his wife where able to do all the work themselves.The only drawback might be on resale. Not sure how the banks feel about loaning on a house like this ( re; unconventional construction).

[mhg]

ER

I have done large inverter systems for sail and powerboats.

Seems a waterwheel could give you enough thru the week to charge a 12v battery bank.

I would invert off that for weekend use.

I would use propane for cooking, hot water and keeping the beer cold.

Matt

Wind generators are a good suppliment, but can be loud

[Oswulf]

About 8 or 9 years ago I built a waterwheel generator from bicycle parts and a car alternator (don't recollect the power on the alternator). Creative gearing made the slowish turn of the paddlewheel spin the alternator at a pretty good clip. I set it up as a portable unit that you could float in a creek anchored to the shore. It actually worked pretty good too, the only thing I wanted to do different was to pick up a good permanent magnet alternator to take some of the strain off the system. Never did get around to doing that. It worked pretty well as a quiet generator for my RV when I parked it next to a creek or river.

There were a few other upgrades I always wanted to try after playing with the finished gadget for awhile, better floating platform etc. It's in pieces in storage right now, I might have to dig it out again someday when I have some time to put into it.

Oswulf