need advice on my para configuration

RollSeven · November 16, 2005, 16:11

hey guys. i am in the process of planning the build for two stg-58 kits that i got from FSE. the kits are in awesome shape, and i plan on making one a para model.

my questions are these:

1. for the para model, is it ok to keep the full length stock barrel and barb-wire-cutting flash suppressor? or should a genuine para model cut the barrel to the shortest possible length? if you suggest that i cut the barrel to, lets say 16", is there a particular flash suppressor that you recommend?

2. i haven't noticed any para models that still have their factory bipods still in place. i really think that the built in FAL bipod is pretty cool and would like to keep it. however, i don't think a para model is supposed to have it. can anyone advise on this?

i know that the whole purpose of the para model is to make the weapon compact and as light as possible. however, i was wondering if it would be cool if i simply added the folding stock to the rifle and kept it like that. it wouldn't be a true para rifle, but the folding stock would look pretty cool and still help to make it more compact if desired.

thank you for your opinions, as the wealth of knowledge that you volunteer is greatly appreciated.

**J. Armstrong** · November 16, 2005, 16:40

For a "correct" para, that is, one replicating a Herstal original as closely as possible, you have a choice of three barrel lengths. One is the original or "standard" length, 21" (533mm). The 50.61 and 50.64 paras used this length. The 50.63 was available to the military in two lengths; 458mm (About 18" ) and 436 mm. I'm not aware of any paras using the Stoll device FH, I believe the military paras probably all used the standard combo device, while the commercial LAR paras mostly used the T48 FH on the 21" versions with some having the combo device. 50.63 LARs used the combo device.
The bipod was a user option. Many paras have bipod cut barrels and HGs, but I doubt that many saw service configured with a bipod for exactly the reasons you noted. Indeed, it was very common for the countries which ordered their FALs with bipods to remove them in service. I have bipods in the accessory "kits" for each of my paras, but I personally don't use them, and don't believe that paras evr did normally.
That's just MHO, what's important is what you like, and what you enjoy, isn't it

BTW, welcome aboard

Be sure to let us know how your builds are progressing !!

RollSeven · November 16, 2005, 16:50

thanks for the reply armstrong! that cleared up alot of doubts that i had. i think that i am going to keep the original barrel and the original FH. i dont want to cut such a beautiful barrel and i really do really like what you called the "stoll" FH.

one reason that i like the FALs is because of the nice long barrels, so i'm gonna keep it. i guess that my FAL will be a little unique.

i think that it will look awesome. i wonder what the factory barrel length of my stg-58 is.

thanks for the reply and take care man. i need to become a contributor to the falfiles website because i have learned alot of stuff on here. thanks again.

mongoose · November 16, 2005, 17:15

If you PM me your email address, I can send you a picture of my 50.61 replicas. One has the factory bi-pod and is done in Rhodie camo, the other is a complete Imbel Para...with the exception of the US parts.

I really prefer the 21" barrel to the 18" (50.64) version.

Either route you take I'm sure it be bring you another FAL....they are very addictive.

**J. Armstrong** · November 16, 2005, 17:27

STGs used the standard 21" barrel.
Come to think of it, did Austria ever make any paras at all ? Limey or Brian or Mr Pogo ought to know. What say, Guys ???
I agree about the FALs looking best with the long barrels. Still, I have an 18" fixed stock with the combo device that I like just fine in it's own way - and it is a favorite rifle and actually a very practical length.
Just an reason for ya to build another, in case you were running short of excuses

RollSeven · November 16, 2005, 17:35

yeah, ur right about them being addictive. i ordered one kit, and just now ordered another. i think getting a really good kit is a key factor huh?

i will have two FALs, and i think that will be enough money and firepower to keep me quite happy. i say that now, but who knows :-)

i would like the gunplumber at arizona response systems to do both of my FALs, but i hear that he has a pretty full schedule. is there anyone else that you would recommend and trust to do a great build and finish on your FAL? i truly believe that you get what you pay for.

**J. Armstrong** · November 16, 2005, 17:55

Only TWO

---you're just getting warmed up

Sledgehammer has done some very nice work for me, with excellent turnaround as well. I know Rich at CGW is well regarded, also. Others as well. Check out Reviews for some other recommendations.
I've been very fortunate with getting exceptional kits - mostly acquired years ago and hoarded until I had a terminal urge to go bankrupt

I'm also a spare parts addict, which always turns into another rifle.Generally this is an outrageously expensive way to build - I hesitate to think what my Izzy LB cost to build that way

If you decide to go 18", I have a primo STG barrel with a preban brake soldered on, which would convert very nicely - I agree about chopping up a good original barrel, especially since no more will be imported. Just a thought if you are interested. Also have a spare "shorty" Stoll FH - all the suppression without the weight ( but doesn't look as cool either, I guess !!).
Get a good set of synthetic HGs for real world shooting and save the skin of your fingers. Keep the steel ones for looking at !!!!

RollSeven · November 16, 2005, 18:16

damn armstrong, do the metal handguards really get that hot? i mean, if i fire one round every 4 seconds or so, is it gonna get so hot that i can't hold it?

i tried to find rich's website at century gunworks, but i couldn't locate it on the web for some reason. how can i contact this sledgehammer guy?

sounds like you have quite a collection over there. i took notes on the list that you gave me, and i wont hesitate to ask if i decide to go with one.

NHBandit · November 16, 2005, 20:07

Here's an all Belgian Para kit built on a Coonan type 1 reciever. With the exception of the added US parts & the SAW PG just cuz I like it, it's original and has the 21" barrel.

**J. Armstrong** · November 16, 2005, 21:28

Just click on the "members" icon at the upper right. From there, the world is yours !! Sledgehammer, Rich@CGW, and many more !!!

Yeah, those metal gurds get hot fast. Give 'em a try, see what you think, but I'll bet you go wood or synthetic. Besides, without the bipod, the metal guards feel too narrow, not to mention kind of flimsy, at least to me. IMHO, the L1A1s ( wood or synth ) and the non bipod metrics ( again, wood or synth ) feel nicest, bipod cut synth next. The Izzys are about the best for heat insulation, but are unique enough in shape that its kinda love/hate for me at least. The Tapco synth T48 HGs work well if you like the shape/looks, I'm told - haven't tried any ( yet ?). Of course, there's always the "chicken mitt"

tac-40 · November 16, 2005, 21:53

Since you are located in FLA, check out Court in Fla who is a member here also. I think he is located in the lower part of the state.

RollSeven · November 17, 2005, 18:16

Quote:

Originally posted by NHBandit
Here's an all Belgian Para kit built on a Coonan type 1 reciever. With the exception of the added US parts & the SAW PG just cuz I like it, it's original and has the 21" barrel.

thats one sweet gun bandit. mine is going to be very similar to yours in regards to the length (full 21"). i am trying to decide on the finish. Mark over at century gun works offers an all-black satin black finish. i think that the gun would look awesome with this finish. however, this finish cost about 250.00 buckaroos i think. it must be a pretty durable finish for that price. are there any other finishes that you recommend? here is the link so you can look at it:

tell me what ya think!

http://www.cgwguns.com/satinxt.gif

BlasterLP · November 18, 2005, 11:24

If you go with the metal handguards, it wont take you very long to be adding to your accessories a set of chicken mitts!

welcome to the site, you are already showing symptoms of being a FALaholic, just go with it !

RollSeven · November 18, 2005, 16:36

Quote:

Originally posted by BlasterLP
If you go with the metal handguards, it wont take you very long to be adding to your accessories a set of chicken mitts!

welcome to the site, you are already showing symptoms of being a FALaholic, just go with it !

thanks blaster....you talked me into it. i figure that i will go with the synthetic handguards and do away with the bipod too. what the hell, i'm gonna make my first FAL (para) as small, compact, and as light as possible. how does that sound? what are the sweetest set of handguards that i can get? does DSA make a nice lloking pair?

what is the minimum length that i can make this bad boy? i already have the folding DSA para stock on order. i'm so excited, and i just can't hide it.

FALna45 · November 18, 2005, 17:15

a 16.5" barrel will put you at right about 27.5" when folded, not inluding any additional length from a muzzle device.
i think a 16" barrel is the shortest you can go w/o SBRing it. that would be about 27" folded and if you're lucky (?) enough to only have to abide by the federal minimum OAL of 26" you'd still be OK

DSA does make nice looking synthetic HGs IMO.

BlasterLP · November 18, 2005, 19:36

FALna45 covered things pretty well, check into your own state and any local ordanance's.
Check the Marketplace ads, FWRA may still have some new, never issued Argie handguards.
Dont put off buying any metal handguards, yes, they dont really look right on a para but sooner or later you will build another kit and you will wonder what it feels like with the metal ones...or wood ......or Izzy......or bipod cut.

there is a ton of info on here, sit down and use the search feature and you will find just about anything you can think of related to the FAL.

November 16, 2005, 16:11	#1
RollSeven Registered FALaholic #: 18522 Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 261	need advice on my para configuration hey guys. i am in the process of planning the build for two stg-58 kits that i got from FSE. the kits are in awesome shape, and i plan on making one a para model. my questions are these: 1. for the para model, is it ok to keep the full length stock barrel and barb-wire-cutting flash suppressor? or should a genuine para model cut the barrel to the shortest possible length? if you suggest that i cut the barrel to, lets say 16", is there a particular flash suppressor that you recommend? 2. i haven't noticed any para models that still have their factory bipods still in place. i really think that the built in FAL bipod is pretty cool and would like to keep it. however, i don't think a para model is supposed to have it. can anyone advise on this? i know that the whole purpose of the para model is to make the weapon compact and as light as possible. however, i was wondering if it would be cool if i simply added the folding stock to the rifle and kept it like that. it wouldn't be a true para rifle, but the folding stock would look pretty cool and still help to make it more compact if desired. thank you for your opinions, as the wealth of knowledge that you volunteer is greatly appreciated. __________________ "The only hope you have is to accept the fact that you're already dead, the sooner you accept that , the sooner you'll be able to function as a soldier is supose to function.....without mercy, without compassion, without remorse. All war depends on it." Band of Brothers

November 16, 2005, 16:40	#2
J. Armstrong Minister of Amusement Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 13629 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: SE Pa Posts: 8,495	For a "correct" para, that is, one replicating a Herstal original as closely as possible, you have a choice of three barrel lengths. One is the original or "standard" length, 21" (533mm). The 50.61 and 50.64 paras used this length. The 50.63 was available to the military in two lengths; 458mm (About 18" ) and 436 mm. I'm not aware of any paras using the Stoll device FH, I believe the military paras probably all used the standard combo device, while the commercial LAR paras mostly used the T48 FH on the 21" versions with some having the combo device. 50.63 LARs used the combo device. The bipod was a user option. Many paras have bipod cut barrels and HGs, but I doubt that many saw service configured with a bipod for exactly the reasons you noted. Indeed, it was very common for the countries which ordered their FALs with bipods to remove them in service. I have bipods in the accessory "kits" for each of my paras, but I personally don't use them, and don't believe that paras evr did normally. That's just MHO, what's important is what you like, and what you enjoy, isn't it BTW, welcome aboard Be sure to let us know how your builds are progressing !! __________________ "The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools" Herbert Spenser "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud

November 16, 2005, 16:50	#3
RollSeven Registered FALaholic #: 18522 Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 261	thanks for the reply armstrong! that cleared up alot of doubts that i had. i think that i am going to keep the original barrel and the original FH. i dont want to cut such a beautiful barrel and i really do really like what you called the "stoll" FH. one reason that i like the FALs is because of the nice long barrels, so i'm gonna keep it. i guess that my FAL will be a little unique. i think that it will look awesome. i wonder what the factory barrel length of my stg-58 is. thanks for the reply and take care man. i need to become a contributor to the falfiles website because i have learned alot of stuff on here. thanks again. __________________ "The only hope you have is to accept the fact that you're already dead, the sooner you accept that , the sooner you'll be able to function as a soldier is supose to function.....without mercy, without compassion, without remorse. All war depends on it." Band of Brothers

November 16, 2005, 17:27	#5
J. Armstrong Minister of Amusement Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 13629 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: SE Pa Posts: 8,495	STGs used the standard 21" barrel. Come to think of it, did Austria ever make any paras at all ? Limey or Brian or Mr Pogo ought to know. What say, Guys ??? I agree about the FALs looking best with the long barrels. Still, I have an 18" fixed stock with the combo device that I like just fine in it's own way - and it is a favorite rifle and actually a very practical length. Just an reason for ya to build another, in case you were running short of excuses __________________ "The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools" Herbert Spenser "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud

November 16, 2005, 17:35	#6
RollSeven Registered FALaholic #: 18522 Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 261	yeah, ur right about them being addictive. i ordered one kit, and just now ordered another. i think getting a really good kit is a key factor huh? i will have two FALs, and i think that will be enough money and firepower to keep me quite happy. i say that now, but who knows :-) i would like the gunplumber at arizona response systems to do both of my FALs, but i hear that he has a pretty full schedule. is there anyone else that you would recommend and trust to do a great build and finish on your FAL? i truly believe that you get what you pay for. __________________ "The only hope you have is to accept the fact that you're already dead, the sooner you accept that , the sooner you'll be able to function as a soldier is supose to function.....without mercy, without compassion, without remorse. All war depends on it." Band of Brothers

November 16, 2005, 17:15	#4
mongoose Registered FALaholic #: 3835 Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Third rock from the sun Posts: 738	If you PM me your email address, I can send you a picture of my 50.61 replicas. One has the factory bi-pod and is done in Rhodie camo, the other is a complete Imbel Para...with the exception of the US parts. I really prefer the 21" barrel to the 18" (50.64) version. Either route you take I'm sure it be bring you another FAL....they are very addictive.

November 16, 2005, 17:55	#7
J. Armstrong Minister of Amusement Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 13629 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: SE Pa Posts: 8,495	Only TWO ---you're just getting warmed up Sledgehammer has done some very nice work for me, with excellent turnaround as well. I know Rich at CGW is well regarded, also. Others as well. Check out Reviews for some other recommendations. I've been very fortunate with getting exceptional kits - mostly acquired years ago and hoarded until I had a terminal urge to go bankrupt I'm also a spare parts addict, which always turns into another rifle.Generally this is an outrageously expensive way to build - I hesitate to think what my Izzy LB cost to build that way If you decide to go 18", I have a primo STG barrel with a preban brake soldered on, which would convert very nicely - I agree about chopping up a good original barrel, especially since no more will be imported. Just a thought if you are interested. Also have a spare "shorty" Stoll FH - all the suppression without the weight ( but doesn't look as cool either, I guess !!). Get a good set of synthetic HGs for real world shooting and save the skin of your fingers. Keep the steel ones for looking at !!!! __________________ "The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools" Herbert Spenser "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud

November 16, 2005, 18:16	#8
RollSeven Registered FALaholic #: 18522 Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 261	damn armstrong, do the metal handguards really get that hot? i mean, if i fire one round every 4 seconds or so, is it gonna get so hot that i can't hold it? i tried to find rich's website at century gunworks, but i couldn't locate it on the web for some reason. how can i contact this sledgehammer guy? sounds like you have quite a collection over there. i took notes on the list that you gave me, and i wont hesitate to ask if i decide to go with one. __________________ "The only hope you have is to accept the fact that you're already dead, the sooner you accept that , the sooner you'll be able to function as a soldier is supose to function.....without mercy, without compassion, without remorse. All war depends on it." Band of Brothers

November 16, 2005, 21:28	#10
J. Armstrong Minister of Amusement Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 13629 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: SE Pa Posts: 8,495	Just click on the "members" icon at the upper right. From there, the world is yours !! Sledgehammer, Rich@CGW, and many more !!! Yeah, those metal gurds get hot fast. Give 'em a try, see what you think, but I'll bet you go wood or synthetic. Besides, without the bipod, the metal guards feel too narrow, not to mention kind of flimsy, at least to me. IMHO, the L1A1s ( wood or synth ) and the non bipod metrics ( again, wood or synth ) feel nicest, bipod cut synth next. The Izzys are about the best for heat insulation, but are unique enough in shape that its kinda love/hate for me at least. The Tapco synth T48 HGs work well if you like the shape/looks, I'm told - haven't tried any ( yet ?). Of course, there's always the "chicken mitt" __________________ "The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools" Herbert Spenser "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud

November 16, 2005, 21:53	#11
tac-40 Moderator Armed Curmudgeon FALaholic #: 12090 Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: SC-Low Country Posts: 4,523	Since you are located in FLA, check out Court in Fla who is a member here also. I think he is located in the lower part of the state. __________________ Only 2 defining forces have ever offered to die for you.....Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom. Lt. Col. Grant L. Rosensteel, Jr. USAF ______________________________ If you do in fact have a problem, you have the rest of your life to solve it. How long your life lasts only depends on how well you solve it.

November 18, 2005, 11:24	#13
BlasterLP Registered FALaholic #: 2081 Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Kansas but now Iraq, wtf was I thinking?? Posts: 950	If you go with the metal handguards, it wont take you very long to be adding to your accessories a set of chicken mitts! welcome to the site, you are already showing symptoms of being a FALaholic, just go with it !

November 18, 2005, 17:15	#15
FALna45 Registered FALaholic #: 10559 Join Date: May 2003 Location: 313 Posts: 327	a 16.5" barrel will put you at right about 27.5" when folded, not inluding any additional length from a muzzle device. i think a 16" barrel is the shortest you can go w/o SBRing it. that would be about 27" folded and if you're lucky (?) enough to only have to abide by the federal minimum OAL of 26" you'd still be OK DSA does make nice looking synthetic HGs IMO. __________________ did a large procession wave their torches as my head fell in the basket? and was everybody dancing on the casket?

November 18, 2005, 19:36	#16
BlasterLP Registered FALaholic #: 2081 Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Kansas but now Iraq, wtf was I thinking?? Posts: 950	FALna45 covered things pretty well, check into your own state and any local ordanance's. Check the Marketplace ads, FWRA may still have some new, never issued Argie handguards. Dont put off buying any metal handguards, yes, they dont really look right on a para but sooner or later you will build another kit and you will wonder what it feels like with the metal ones...or wood ......or Izzy......or bipod cut. there is a ton of info on here, sit down and use the search feature and you will find just about anything you can think of related to the FAL.

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