Bug Out Gun Choices:

[skiprobinson]

After watching all the interesting developments in NO and Texas I decided to make some preparations for my own family in case we had to evacuate our home for a natural disaster. I have the basics covered as far as food, water first aid and extra gear and its all in a extra large rubbermaid bin that I can throw in the family Minivan and be ready to go. MY wife and daughters would have time to pack clothes and such if we were being evacuated. I wanted to have a "grab bag" with a couple of basic weapons that would be handy on the road and in the event that things deteriorated. I would carry my Sig 228 9mm with three extra mags in a CC holster on my body and an extra couple hundred rounds of 9mm in an ammo can but the long gun choice is what I am interested in hearing opinions on. Kind of like a truck gun, I would take something that is functional and versatile but not my M14 or FAL simply because I think they attract too much attention. My other choices area Mossy 590 12 ga shotgun or one of my SKS's. I have been shooting both guns for years so there isnt a distinct advantage as far as familiarity and I could argue that either would be a good choice with the pump gun being a bit better in an urban setting and the SKS having more range and lighter ammo. I have a very non descript black case that looks like a guitar bag more then anything else and each gun fits easily and I can stash ammo in a .50 cal can along with rounds for the 9mm
.
I am curious what you guys would throw in the car in such a situation
(choosing between the two) I am not trying to start a "MY M4 and 5K rounds of ammo is the absolute minimum" thread so I am not looking for your options
(Gun choices like wives are a very personal thing !) But my question is:which would you want if you were the only male defending a wife and 2 young daughters into an unknown situation?

Please let them fly, this thread got some interesting posts on a survival board today!

Skip

[Windustsearch]

My personnal first choice would be AKS-74. Second choice would be a para FAL. I don't have either one as of yet. I like the reliability, durability, light weight, and the light ammo of the 74, and being able to fold it down to app. 24" could be a plus. I think they have enough range, accuracy, and knock down for most applications. Problem would be finding ammo for it if I ran out.

But for me the whole idea of it seems more like a fantasy than reality, but it is good to be prepared.

[sslocal]

If I had my druthers I would say that my prefered rifle would be a short AR-15. However, I live in the PRK so I am forced to make other choices.
I have a Winchester pump shotgun that would work well I am sure. For a side arm I think my 1911 would be just about perfect.

Its a shame that the political climate in my state should have a effect on the choice of arms to protect you and yours from harm.

[JoeLad]

Anything using commonly available ammunition should suffice. 12 gauge, 7.62/.308, .38/.357. Also, not all firearms using these calibers evoke a negative reaction. A shotgun and revolver seem less threatening, than an AK or an AR. At least to the untrained sheeple.

I'm torn between a cheap gun (SKS), and one of my short FALs. On the one hand I wouldn't care too much if I lost an SKS, but I'd be bummed if a Para FAL were to disappear.

JoeLad

[Vulcan]

AK47 folder of proven reliability and acceptable accuracy to ~100 yards or so, using mags of proven reliability and ammo of proven reliability.

I doubt anyone would ever need to shoot more than a 100 yards in an urban self defense situation (they may even have a hard time explaining/justifying that long a shot). The AK is a good close quarters firearm. Its recoil is very mild so the wife could handle it if needed. Ammo is cheap and plentiful. It could fit in your containers when folded up.........yup, I think I'd go with an AK47 folder.

Of course, its always easy to spend someone elses money too!
What I would actually use is what I actually had. In my case that would be a CZ97 on my person and a PO P14 and Mossy riot 12 gauge with side folder stock stashed where I could get to them quickly. I would leave the other long guns locked up and/ or hidden given time to.

[Cava3r4]

Polymer target kimber that holds 15 rounds of 45 acp and it is my CCW weapon in a comp-tac IWB holster.
Long Arm would be my STG-58 FAL
The choice for the 45 is because it is a 45 and I shoot it real well and I don't even know I am carrying it in that comp-tac.
The choice on the FAL is because it is as light as anything I own (I have praire dog rifles with bull barrels and BIG scopes on them and bipods etc.) and I have lots of ammo.
I do not have much faith in the .223 round because I served in Vietnam. I walked point and I saw how many times I had to hit them before they'd quit the fight. I thought I was going to die every time.
HTH

Bob

[G21A]

An SKS would do the job and could be considered a cheap disposable tool. There are others that one would not want to drag through water etc. More than enough firepower, range and deterant factor. I would probably also want something like a .22 rifle for shooting squirells for the pot.

[torquemada055]

Well, in my family we have 3 12ga. shotguns that would be first in the truck.
Then it would be the 5 FAL's and our personal sidearms.
I carry the 1911 and the wife has her Glock, our kids each have a .22 semi.

We have our bug out kit ready, some of my friends think it's a bit wierd but they have since come around after watching the news the last few years.

Most of them have aquired a version of an AR but some have SKS's and their wives and kids have all learned to shoot them.

My older brother is in the process of getting his first FAL after seeing mine a couple of months ago.
Now we just need some of those kit's to hit themarketplace.

[W.E.G.]

Explain to us why you think an M14 or FAL "attracts more attention" than a shotgun or SKS rifle.

Are you in a survival situation, or are you hunting in PC-Forest?

If you have to hide your long gun, wouldn't a FAL disassemble into a smaller package than an SKS?

But, I'm even more interested in where you think you are "bugging-out" to.
Where can you go on a moments notice where you will be safer than your present abode? Please tell us why you think this "bug-out" place is safer.

[WEEWEE]

M1 Garand or my M1 Carbine. Sig 228 on my side and my Colt pocket nine in my pocket.

[Jon Frum]

Originally posted by gary.jeter
Explain to us why you think an M14 or FAL "attracts more attention" than a shotgun or SKS rifle.

Are you in a survival situation, or are you hunting in PC-Forest?

If you have to hide your long gun, wouldn't a FAL disassemble into a smaller package than an SKS?

But, I'm even more interested in where you think you are "bugging-out" to.
Where can you go on a moments notice where you will be safer than your present abode? Please tell us why you think this "bug-out" place is safer.

Good point, I was going to say MK760 subgun and SW 5906 both in 9mm, maybe a Polish underfolder AK and STG- 58. I stay here and I have a shitpile of choices and ammo too! Come and get me!!!

[gunnut1]

Only one choice here. Any AK variant. Reliable and ammo is plentiful. I would carry as much ammo as Ii could also. I would tak my M4orgery as a back up. Leave the heavy guns here. In a survival situation, I really don't think I would care what other people thought about me. Most people don't like any kind of gun, regardless of the configuration!

Hand gun choice is a SIG 229 in .40 S&W.

[Slow]

believe it or not, with all the EBR's i own, i would pick my Winchester 94 trapper.
its a handy little carbine with a punch.
it been my truck gun for many years and for some reason i just love it, its accurate and extremely reliable.

besides if SHTF i will be collecting more EBRS from the despots.



as for a hand gun it a toss up between three, SIG 220, Ruger P85, Colt Delta Elite. probably not the Colt due to ammo availability.

[Deltaten]

Of the choices provided, I would go w/the shotgun.

Ammo available EVERYWHERE
ammo choices are myriad
Intimidation factor can be either/or...either lower due to the commonality of a shotty; or severe intimidation factor..y'all know what I mean!

A couple of pak of slugs to deal w/all the longer distance threats and some buck for general purpose room clearing. Birdshot for...well...birds!

The SKS *may* be a great rifle for you, but where ya gonna resupply ammo needs in a pinch? Bubba's Gas'n'Go in Bumf&#k ain't gonna stock that! Well, mebbe, but if it's THAT bad, ya can bet that Bubba's got all of it in HIS Bug-out-mobile!

"Target, left! Goblin at 10 o'clock..incoming"

"PULL!"


Paul

[doktor_ecchs]

I agree with Deltaten. I recently bought a 12 ga. Savage 775 autoloader at a funshow for $150. It was a real pig as far as looks go but it was mechanically very little used. Rutland 1200 degree stove paint solved the finish problems. With a 19" barrel and sidesaddle for extra rounds it has evolved into a great truck gun with lots of firepower. It also would be a gun anyone could use (point in general direction...fire!) and dosen't cost the earth. As said above, 12 ga. ammo is literally everywhere and in every configuration from slugs to Dragon's breath and all points in between. I like a shotgun at night because it is easier to hit with and you wouldn't have to be dead on to be effective. It would also be good to hunt with if the need arose.

as ever,
Dr. X

[FALshot]

As the owner of more FALs than I will admit to,...If you're talking about just ONE firearm.
I have a Remington 12 Ga. 18" barrel that's action has been worked over so that it is sooooo smooth! I can shoot a host of cool slugs including bolos, fleshettes, and rifled.

Even a hard core anti gunner would find relative innocence in a disaster type situation with a shotgun.

Not to come of like I think that much of my abilities, but you'd be surprised what I've been able to do with a shotgun that will hold eight and one in the tube.

Yep if it was only one ,my Remington would have to be it.

If you want to open it up to multipal firearms, jeeze I'd grab my .223 FAL (SAR4800) that's been "Legalized" with the American made parts to dump the B*tthole stock and a whole bunch of AR mags which it accepts.

(Could also grab one of the .308 FALs and a Glock 21.)



You know, I haven't heard any reports from anti gunners, politicians or not, about the people in NO or Texas not needing firearms to protect themselves! (I mean we all know the police and National Guard can protect us right?)

Regards,
Bill Woodward
Portland, OR.

P.S. I had no idea Shootest 87122 would be grade schooling grammer,... Unless shootest walks around with one of his firearms duct taped to his person he will have to grap one of his guns too,...

[creator0203]

long gun FAL of course
versitile ak folder
then cruiser 500 pistol grip shotgun with 00buck
taurus pt92 para 9mm

if i had to pick one it would have to be the ak underfolder.

[shootist87122]

I would not have to grab anything; it's already there.

To answer Gary, I would leave any low lying costal area if a cat 2 or bigger hurricane was making a beeline to my abode (I weathered a cat 1 in Beaumont, TX and that's about max for me). Moot point these days since I now live at ~5,500 feet.

[Indycar]

M4/FAL
870/500
Pistol/revolver you feel most comfortable with

[JoeLad]

A pistol grip Mossy 12 fits under the bench seat in my truck. That and a bando full of various shells would probably get me home. My Chi Com SKS with the folding stock would fit behind the seat.

Me? I'm not bugging out to anywhere. I live in the city, in a SHTF scenario there'll be too many idiots out there on the road, chances are they'll run out of gas sitting on the highway.

If you're bugging out for the longhaul, think availability of ammo. Bubba's Stop & Go might not have any 7.62x39, or 5.45x39 in stock. Chances are he will have 12 gauge, .38 Special, and 9mm.

Explain to us why you think an M14 or FAL "attracts more attention" than a shotgun or SKS rifle.

Think gun confiscation at roadblocks. Probably happen in a real SHTF scenario. That's when the Partiot Act will rear it's ugly head. The "cold, dead hands" argument will go out the window when you have Nat'l. Guard troops drawing down on you with your wife and kids in the car. I'd rather give up an SKS than an FAL, M1A, or AR. We saw it happen in NO, don't think it won't happen again.

Also, if you work a distance from your home (as many people do), you won't be getting there anytime soon if the SHittingTF is the result of an NBC attack. That'll come without warning, unlike a hurricane. Whether you've been exposed, or not, the forces that be wil not let you out of the "hot zone". Remember NYC after 9/11, and the big blackout? Folks walking over bridges to get home to New Jersey or Connecticut.
You take the Interstate to work? It wouldn't take but a few state troopers to shut it down in both directions. Public transporataion? The transit authority just shuts it down. Same goes for passenger rail service, and commercial airlines.

If the S really does HTF, I'll be called in to work. 10 minutes away by car over city streets. I'll be bringing along enough guns to outfit everyone in the firehouse. No city cop is gonna hassle a FF with a truck full of guns.

JoeLad

[firefuzz]

Hope you're right Joe. My G17 on the hip, 870 on the truck seat, everything else out of sight, if it's not already in position waiting on me.

My 870 is lighter and less bulky than any of my detachable mag rifles, easier to handle out the truck window in a 'fire while flying' situation. The shot pattern will also increase the probablity of hits.

Nine, 33 cal projectiles per trigger pull, any one of which can be fatal and will diffinately make the other guy wish he was somewhere else, mean I can put from 45 to 63 projectiles, I practice rapid fire with a shotgun much more than I do a rifle, into their position in less than 3 seconds.

By the way, my missus will be driving, I'll be riding shotgun, no pun intended. She drives better than a lot of men, but I'm the better shot. Maximizing the use of people's skills in a hostile environment is essential to survival.

Rob

[Para Driver]

But for me the whole idea of it seems more like a fantasy than reality, but it is good to be prepared.

I think the last 3 weeks should change your mind on that statement..
I have kept a 'shtf bag' even before 9/11. It contains some MRE type food, .223, .308, 45, 9mm and 12ga ammo.. not that I would take all of those weapons, but you might have to 'pick one up' along the roadside someplace and it makes sense to have say 50 rounds of ammo for it?? Don't forget some blankets, sanitation gear, personal hygene stuff, TP..

As for looking 'conspicous' with a black rifle, I don't think it matters..
you won't look any less conspicous with a shotgun than a FAL, you will still be treated like a threat by anyone that sees you.. somthing short or with a folding stock might be an advantage to maintaining some stealth..

Take whatever gun you have the most confidence in. I subscribe to the concept of keeping it in a current issue US military caliber, because you might be able to 'pick up' some ammo along the roadside if need be...

[9337yankee]

Well, when I bugged out last week here is how I did it with 3 vehicles.

M4 in half placed in a back pack with 6 30 rd mags in side pockets - very portable and low profile, can assemble in short order. This went with me.

Standard FAL with 4 20 rd mags in assault case. Went with wife/daughter (daughter is the FAL shooter of those two).

Son carried Mossberg 500 12 ga.

- and pistols in holsters all around.

If I had my druthers, the rifles would be "para" models like FAL, FNC, Daiwoo(sp), side or under folder AK47 etc. It would have allowed me to fold a gun instead of disassemble a gun (M4) and place into service if necessary much quicker.

'37yankee

[eodinert]

If you're 'buggin' out', and leaving the good guns at home (because you don't want to have to forfeit them to whomever), those looters that hit your house are going to have some nice guns.

Where I am is more of a 'bug in' place, but if I go, I'm taking the best of what I've got.

..and I don't care if wallyworld doesn't sell my ammo of choice, because I already have enough to last a long, long time.

[9337yankee]

Originally posted by eodinert
If you're 'buggin' out', and leaving the good guns at home (because you don't want to have to forfeit them to whomever), those looters that hit your house are going to have some nice guns....

For the pieces I left, I pulled the bolts, placed the bolts in socks and stashed in my truck. If "they" did get to the gun room, they would only have clubs.

'37yankee

[izaakb]

Whatever is the most common ammo.

Portable.

Whatever I had the most mags for.

Right now that means:

.22 Ruger Mark 1 target. Not ideal for carry, but can hit a tennis ball at 100 ft.
.38/.357 revolver (taurus tracker)
9mm (glock 17)
.308 (M14 "bush" rifle with folder stock or FAL, i'm not picky, both shoot good groups).

[Hebrew Battle Rifle]

Of the choices given, I would take the SKS. Other than hunting fast moving game, the SKS will do everything that a shotgun will do, but the reverse is not true. (self defense). At the ranges that a shotgun will be effective, the SKS will be just as effective and just as easy to hit your target with. A shotgun will be useless to you as a defense weapon at ranges over 50 yrds. Not so for the SKS. ( bad guys carry rifles too) SKS are light and have very little recoil ( the other members of your family may be required to fire it). If you do decide on the SKS, pack ammo with hollow point or exposed lead bullets. They may open or mushroom on impact. Maybe they won't. FMJ certainly will not.

If your daughters are old enough, a couple of good .22LR hand guns would be a wise addition to your provisions.


No doubt someone will argue that slugs from a shotgun are effective beyond 50 yrds. While that is true, if you are going to carry slugs only, just carry a rifle. Especially one that will not beat the crap out of your shoulder with repeated firing and that smaller members of your family can handle.

If you are not going to carry slugs only, which type of ammo will be in the chamber when you need a slug?

[Thomas Paine]

Originally posted by JoeLad
A pistol grip Mossy 12 fits under the bench seat in my truck. That and a bando full of various shells would probably get me home. My Chi Com SKS with the folding stock would fit behind the seat.

Me? I'm not bugging out to anywhere. I live in the city, in a SHTF scenario there'll be too many idiots out there on the road, chances are they'll run out of gas sitting on the highway.

If you're bugging out for the longhaul, think availability of ammo. Bubba's Stop & Go might not have any 7.62x39, or 5.45x39 in stock. Chances are he will have 12 gauge, .38 Special, and 9mm.

Explain to us why you think an M14 or FAL "attracts more attention" than a shotgun or SKS rifle.

Think gun confiscation at roadblocks. Probably happen in a real SHTF scenario. That's when the Partiot Act will rear it's ugly head. The "cold, dead hands" argument will go out the window when you have Nat'l. Guard troops drawing down on you with your wife and kids in the car. I'd rather give up an SKS than an FAL, M1A, or AR. We saw it happen in NO, don't think it won't happen again.

Also, if you work a distance from your home (as many people do), you won't be getting there anytime soon if the SHittingTF is the result of an NBC attack. That'll come without warning, unlike a hurricane. Whether you've been exposed, or not, the forces that be wil not let you out of the "hot zone". Remember NYC after 9/11, and the big blackout? Folks walking over bridges to get home to New Jersey or Connecticut.
You take the Interstate to work? It wouldn't take but a few state troopers to shut it down in both directions. Public transporataion? The transit authority just shuts it down. Same goes for passenger rail service, and commercial airlines.

If the S really does HTF, I'll be called in to work. 10 minutes away by car over city streets. I'll be bringing along enough guns to outfit everyone in the firehouse. No city cop is gonna hassle a FF with a truck full of guns.

JoeLad

True but planning is all it will take to get out of a hot city in the first few hours. The normal shift will be on duty t the PD, people will have to be called in, The NG will have to be activated and the state Patrolis scattered around the country. You have about a 1-2 hourwindow using service roads to get out of the perimeter.The first thing blocked will be major traffic arteries. My plan is go as far as I can in my vehicle, then use LPC's (Leather Personal carriers) to go form there. I will lay up by day and move at night if I don't get out the first evening.

The immediate hot zone will be shut down first. Say for a dirty bomb depending on winds 20-30 blocks, for an out break once the first 3-6 cases are discovered the race is on this is the one that worries me. I'm lucky in that I am in a position where I may get a heads up . For a chem attack same as a dirty bomb weather, winds, and agent will determine what gets isolated.

In bug out situation due ot Hurricane leave early use secondary roads as much as possible go to family an dfriends and/or at least 300 miles out of the zone.

One of the Delorme or Rand McNally state road atlases comes in real handy. Plan several routes and drive them.Look for choke points and ways to avoid them. Use one of the satellite picture services on the net to lok at areas of the route . I understand several of these services just got approval for a .5 meter resolution sat and to release the pics.
Paranoia is your friend in this case if you can't have the equipment for everything at least plan for everything.

[Monkeyman]

Last time I packed up for a hurricane I carried a semi-auto 9mm pistol for each adult, a 12ga pumpgun for each 'rifle-unfamiliar' male and my scoped SLR for me. We were 'holed up' in a big hurricane-proof plantation house so the situation was not the same as if we were running. Within 50yds there's not much a 12ga shotgun or 9mm pistol can't do and the shotgun can scatter crowds with #9 shot without killing anyone.

[Farmer from Hell]

Originally posted by Thomas Paine

True but planning is all it will take to get out of a hot city in the first few hours. The normal shift will be on duty t the PD, people will have to be called in, The NG will have to be activated and the state Patrolis scattered around the country. You have about a 1-2 hourwindow using service roads to get out of the perimeter.The first thing blocked will be major traffic arteries. My plan is go as far as I can in my vehicle, then use LPC's (Leather Personal carriers) to go form there. I will lay up by day and move at night if I don't get out the first evening.

I beg to disaggree. During the DC sniper mess the kops main tactic was to sit under over passes etc and wait for someone to radio and say there was a shooting. They then would block on ramps, off ramps, and main roads in the area and then start searching cars. This would happen literally within the 10-20 minute post-bang window. Granted they were in position to do it in very short notice but dont sell them short on bottling up an area PDQ. I dont know what traffic is like in your area but one broken down car in a single lane or a two car wreck in a busy intersection will compleatly snarl traffic for literally a dozen block in all directions in a matter 10 minutes around here.

You also have to take into account there may be a significant lag time before you have enough facts to determine a course of action. Are you constantly listening to the radio or watching the news? It could very well be an hour before you get the news and figure out what is really happening.

Joe and Gary have pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Good ol shotgun that you "forgot to take out of the truck after hunting season" is the way to go. I have to disaggree with HBR. Nothing wrong with carrying some slugs along with BS. Hell mix them in the tube. BS first. If something presents itself outside of 30 yds rack the slide and clear the BS from the chamber and rack in the next one which is a slug. Around here any rifle with a pointy metal thing attached to the end will draw A LOT of attention really fast. Folks, come to grips with the fact that ANY EBR will bring a lot of heat due to the stigmatism that they have due to societal brain washing. That spiffy bushmaster all doodaded up will do you no good if the first kop you come across takes it away from you because someone reported a "crazy looter walking around with a M-16".

FfH

[justashooter]

i would have to say a shorty AR. but where i live, i don't need to bug.

[brownknees]

I would go with the 12 Ga, for one big reason. Versatility.
A 12 Ga slug will work on big game, or 300Lb. varmints.
"00" buck will do as a good "intermediate" load.
#6 shot will harvest small game.
There is the intimidation factor also. The muzzle of a 12 Ga looks like the Holland tunnel, when you're staring into it, and that may prevent you having to fire a shot, or fill in a bunch of paperwork from your cell when everything calms down later!

[calavera]

When my family bugged out of Beaumont last week my brother had a Taurus in .40 and an 870. My mom had her carry piece - a Taurus .38 revolver. Dunno what my dad had but you can bet your ass he was packing too.

If we bugged out, I'd take:

FAL - in the car, within reach
SKS - in the car, within reach
Ruger MkII - in the car, within reach

Any other firearms go in the trunk, assuming there's room. The SKS is a 'paratrooper' variant and sports a folding stock (yeah, it's 922(r)-compliant), so it doesn't take up a whole lot of room.

[JoeLad]

Originally posted by calavera


Any other firearms go in the trunk, assuming there's room. The SKS is a 'paratrooper' variant and sports a folding stock (yeah, it's 922(r)-compliant), so it doesn't take up a whole lot of room.

I wouldn't be too worried about 922r compliance when the SHTF. Some local cop won't care either when he takes it from you.

JoeLad

[Opie]

Interesting thread.....what would I take with me?

Pretty much everything that I have since I cannot stand the fact that "someone" may end up with them, and that I'll just pack the wife and kid up and drive the 45 miles to my folks' place. I trust everyone out where they live and most everyone out there takes care of one another. That is what matters most right?

To get me home, tho I have a M1917 Enfield with 40 rounds, and an M1A1 Carbine with one 30 rnd and three 15 round mags in the car. The carbine never leaves the trunk other then cleaning.

[Mebsuta]

Mauser 98k. The Wehrmacht carried it into Hell. It will not fail you. They can be set up in 7.62 NATO.

[Xenogy]

I have been thinking of this exact thought for the past half year or so almost daily. After going through purchase and sales and trades of M16, CETME, AKS-74, and finally FAL with this thought in mind I setteled on the FAL which is what brought me here. I chose FAL as my MBR to handle all bugout applications. I wanted somthing that would not limit me to an urban environment or any particular natural or man made disaster. Afterall 90 countries can't be wrong!

FAL
Can be used for urban and long range applications. As tactical or sniper applications depending on your environment whether it be urban woodland desert open water etc...

7.62 can punch through cars and obstruction to supress your aggressor. It can end a car chase quicker than 5.56 or 5.45 and similar calibers. It can punch straight through both sides of a car instead of veering off after hitting the first side.

If I were to end up in an open area not in an urban environment the FAL has the range over the smaller calibers. You don't need anything that shoots MOA or less for hidden sniper shots. Most didn't have that accuracy during WWII and they still got the job done with bolt actions such as the Mosin Nagant 91/30 PU that the Russians used with great success.

FAL uses both .308 and 7.62 NATO. Your ammo supply is common and can be readily found in any gun store and the military uses it.

FAL does not Sh*t where it eats like the AR15 and CETME/HKG3. It's action stays clean longer. It dissasembles very fast and easy and faster to clean. If I were flooded out in New Orleans I would rather pick up the FAL sitting in that muck rather than an AR15.

Also someone pointed out on anoher forum that the AR-15 is assosiated more with law enforcement, order, and the US Military. Most civilians would be less apprehinsive towards the AR-15 especially if you were to carry it properly and professionally. Slung over the shoulder with barrel down to the ground or across the chest and barrel pointed down if using a tactical sling. This rather than an AK-47 being help sloppy, at port arms, or ready position which would be the direct opposite and anyone would take a defensive stance if they saw you coming down the street. So for the AR-15 ammunition is available through LE, Military etc... if a militia was formed and in joint operation. .5.56 and 223 ammo would be in supply and is also common in gun stores.

The Kalashnikov is associated with fear and terror in the middle east and in the hands of looters and gangs in New Orleans. Alot of people would have AK variants but the majority of the BAD forces whatever they be will most likely have AKs, which if you are carrying one you may be assosiated with them. The plus would be the ammo supply. Also if a communist country such as China was to invade they would provide ammo to resupply your AK after you relieved it from them. I think that 5.45 would be in short supply so it would be wise to stock up on a few cases.(95%+ of the AKs on the street would be chambered to 7.62x39)

The FAL would probably be nuetral and look more like the AR-15. Most ignorant people would consider it like the AR-15 or atleast they would not consider you enemy quite so fast as long as you do your part. Like the AR-15 the ammo is readily available.

Alot of people also take their cars for granted. What if your car does not work for some reason. Or was disabled due to an EMP, the roads are so jammed that you can't get out of town or it floated away. Traveling in a car can put you into danger. Large crowds will want your car and there just are not enough bullets to hold them off. You will end up being "carried off" by the crowd and so will the next few to attempt taking your car and so on. The longer you wait the harder it will be to get out of town. Most people would not be prepared and some would wait it out for several weeks before they leave town and head for the mountains/woods etc... By then it is too late. If it was down to what you can carry what would you take? It would be hard to take 2 rilfes. One for short range tactical and one for long range with the different ammo for the two. Most likely along the way one of the 2 would be ditched due to weight. Thats where the FAL comes in to play the best of both worlds.

[spatin]

"comp-tac" - What's that?
Sidney

Originally posted by Cava3r4
Polymer target kimber that holds 15 rounds of 45 acp and it is my CCW weapon in a comp-tac IWB holster.
Long Arm would be my STG-58 FAL
The choice for the 45 is because it is a 45 and I shoot it real well and I don't even know I am carrying it in that comp-tac.
The choice on the FAL is because it is as light as anything I own (I have praire dog rifles with bull barrels and BIG scopes on them and bipods etc.) and I have lots of ammo.
I do not have much faith in the .223 round because I served in Vietnam. I walked point and I saw how many times I had to hit them before they'd quit the fight. I thought I was going to die every time.
HTH

Bob

[Farmer from Hell]

Originally posted by Xenogy
Also if a communist country such as China was to invade they would provide ammo to resupply your AK after you relieved it from them.

See here.



FfH

[Xenogy]

Originally posted by Farmer from Hell


See here.



FfH

And your point is??? That link pertained to the survival forum. This is general firearms discussion forum.

[I am bob]

I think theres a real question of what kind of situation you are facing. If its a natural disaster thats a whole lot different that a riot or uprising or invasion type scenario. My personal bug plans involve bugging out to my GF's location which is pretty rural and defensible, and then bugging in there.. coupla things I considered are :

close in are you going to want a shorty AR-15 with a holosight, or a scoped .308? (ar)
further out (say 200+ yards) are you really going to be doing combat at these ranges? (only in the case of a: hunting to survive, and b: total war)
for bugging out, are you going to want to carry a heavy battle rifle, or a lighter weapon like a basic ar-15 (hmm.. lemme see).
shotgun or rifle? well, you can do a lot with a shotty esp. in an urban scenario, but then an AR will do dang near as well, and get you 30 rounds to the mag whereas I cant get more than 7 in the shotty. that makes the AR my first choice.

I real in a gabe suarez quote that he suggests putting an ar in a coleman camp chair bag (the tubular ones with the draw string at the top). low profile.

that said, if the fit hit the shan I'd definately take EVERYTHING so that looters wouldnt get squat, and I'd have enough to arm everyone in my group.

[kaiserworks]

I think the issue of transportation is the key. You may very well be without wheels or if you've got transport, what about gas along the way? Keep the kit down to what you and your loved ones can carry on foot in an extreme emergency. I would stay in place until untennable or unwise. No use stuck on a road half way between destinations in a traffic jam and almost out of gas. What is essential; h2o, food, protection, bandaids. Those with small children or elderly have a much more complex problem.
Myself: shorty FAL and 1911
Wife: 1187 riot gun and 220
2x quality, roomy back packs in case we have to leave the vehicle.
Both dogs know how to heal and stay, working on some doggy saddle bags so they can carry their own h2o/food.
In our situation, we need to get to elderly relatives (about 30 minutes drive on a good day) as they would need our assistance and have a more defensible remote residence. Best to preposition some gear at your retreat location so you don't have to carry every gun and bullet and all your survival gear with you. Again, you may be on foot.
But most of all stay in shape, its alot easier to deal with any emergency, especially an evacuation. Anyone on here thats served in the military or been into hunting/hiking knows it takes alot of stamina to carry a ruck, weapon and perhaps an injured family member any distance... Think I'll go for a jog tonight.

[Mad Dog 7.62]

Originally posted by Mebsuta
Mauser 98k. The Wehrmacht carried it into Hell. It will not fail you. They can be set up in 7.62 NATO.

Uh, you might want to check those history books again. The guys with the Garands and Springfields kicked the Wehrmachts ass clear back across Europe.
MD

[Xenogy]

Originally posted by Mad Dog 7.62


Uh, you might want to check those history books again. The guys with the Garands and Springfields kicked the Wehrmachts ass clear back across Europe.
MD

Lets not get too hasty. Germany did not loose the war because Germans had Mausers and we had Garands. His justification for his selection had nothing to do with who one the war. What he meant was the reliability factor and how strong the 98k Mauser action is. Look at how many countries adopted the Mauser and how many new Mauser actions are being put on commercial rifles. Lets not forget that the Mauser was the inspiration for the Springfield 03 rifle.. The Mauser was the AK of it's day.

[Windustsearch]

Word.

[ABNROCK]

Rifle choices:

Lithgow SMLE (in the Jeep)- Fast reloading, reliable as all getout, and accurate enough to make you wish you were somewhere else if I'm firing at you. Bolt-action, therefore I'm clear in the relm of PC and would blend in with the masses.

FAL(On me)- Tank tough, reliable, and am able to sling a shit ton of lead down range for a long distance.

Pistols:

SIG 2009 (on me): Small enough for CCW

Glock 17(In the Jeep)-33rnd mag X 5, 17rnd mag X5 need I say more?

No Shotties as of now

Rocker

[JoeLad]

Originally posted by Farmer from Hell


See here.



FfH

Good call FfH!

JoeLad

[JoeLad]

Originally posted by justashooter
i would have to say a shorty AR. but where i live, i don't need to bug.

That's a no-shitter folks. JAS is in the boonies, I told him the same first time I was out his place. But I'd have to get some NVGs, Scott, cause it sure do get inky dark out there at night.

JoeLad

[Thomas Paine]

Originally posted by Farmer from Hell


I beg to disaggree. During the DC sniper mess the kops main tactic was to sit under over passes etc and wait for someone to radio and say there was a shooting. They then would block on ramps, off ramps, and main roads in the area and then start searching cars. This would happen literally within the 10-20 minute post-bang window. Granted they were in position to do it in very short notice but dont sell them short on bottling up an area PDQ. I dont know what traffic is like in your area but one broken down car in a single lane or a two car wreck in a busy intersection will compleatly snarl traffic for literally a dozen block in all directions in a matter 10 minutes around here.

You also have to take into account there may be a significant lag time before you have enough facts to determine a course of action. Are you constantly listening to the radio or watching the news? It could very well be an hour before you get the news and figure out what is really happening.

Joe and Gary have pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Good ol shotgun that you "forgot to take out of the truck after hunting season" is the way to go. I have to disaggree with HBR. Nothing wrong with carrying some slugs along with BS. Hell mix them in the tube. BS first. If something presents itself outside of 30 yds rack the slide and clear the BS from the chamber and rack in the next one which is a slug. Around here any rifle with a pointy metal thing attached to the end will draw A LOT of attention really fast. Folks, come to grips with the fact that ANY EBR will bring a lot of heat due to the stigmatism that they have due to societal brain washing. That spiffy bushmaster all doodaded up will do you no good if the first kop you come across takes it away from you because someone reported a "crazy looter walking around with a M-16".

FfH

The cops were operating on god awful ot hours during that timer also. On a random terror event or industrial accident I have a plan and will work the plan.
I monitor news , radio, tv, and internet during my duty shift. Unless the evemnt is expected they may be able to shut down the Interstates and major exits in my city but the small surface roads they will not havethe manpower to do that and do all the other things involve. While they might put an extra 3-40 bodiues on the street in 45 minutes to get the majority of manpowe ron the street will take 90 minutes -2 hours. I intend to be gone by then. well outside the city even if my route takes me away from the direction of my home intially. I do not intend to get bogged down making a decision.I have set parameters and if those parameters are met I'm history even if a false alarm.

[Mebsuta]

Originally posted by Xenogy


Lets not get too hasty. Germany did not loose the war because Germans had Mausers and we had Garands. His justification for his selection had nothing to do with who one the war. What he meant was the reliability factor and how strong the 98k Mauser action is. Look at how many countries adopted the Mauser and how many new Mauser actions are being put on commercial rifles. Lets not forget that the Mauser was the inspiration for the Springfield 03 rifle.. The Mauser was the AK of it's day.

Right on. Thank you. I was about to get indignant.