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August 26, 2005, 05:18
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#1 |
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Khemi, Stygia
Contributor
FALaholic #: 4143 Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Khemi, Stygia
Posts: 6,304
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Are under-folding AKs wobbly?
Might be time to finally an AK while I still can. Is the underfolder wobbly and does it loosen up, or is it pretty solid? Are you better off with a fixed stock? I generally avoid folding rifles, but an under-folder would be easy to stash away somewhere in the house or in the safe. Those Polish kits at Gunthings look pretty nice if they have any left. Thanks.
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August 26, 2005, 08:04
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#2 |
FALaholic #: 1125 Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Here right now
Posts: 17,638
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I find them pretty solid. The European underfolder is better then the Chinese, got both. My Chinese AK has fired at least 10,000 rounds over the years and is still solid.
That bolt on Romie thing was horrible so I would not bother with it. Vince |
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August 26, 2005, 09:19
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#3 |
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Perm Banned
FALaholic #: 206 Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Mesa, AZ USA
Posts: 1,392
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Just remember a folding stock rifle is a folding stock rifle for ease of stowage, NOT for comfort.
If you find one which is comfortable. i.e. Daewoo K2, Galil, AR180...AND solid...that's double-plus good. Underfold AKs are not known to be comfy. D. AZEX |
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August 26, 2005, 09:35
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#4 |
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Registered
FALaholic #: 289 Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 4,927
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Yeah, they get a bit wobbly and they are not all that comfortable to use. Fixed butt AK's are far better in every respect except size. Underfold AK butts are nothing like an FAL folder.
The underfolder is hugely popular in the Middle East as a fashion statement, however.
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Kalashnikov: The most successful point and click interface in the world. |
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August 26, 2005, 09:38
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#5 |
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Registered
FALaholic #: 10219 Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Seattle,Wa
Posts: 5,696
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My Norinco 56S-1 was not even a little bit wobbly. They do have a harder felt kick though. The steel has a way of digging into your shoulder at all the wrong places.
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August 26, 2005, 09:43
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#6 |
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FALaholic #: 1125 Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Here right now
Posts: 17,638
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I have never noticed much more of a kick then with fixed stock AK's.
Vince |
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August 26, 2005, 10:18
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#7 |
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Registered
FALaholic #: 171 Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The "free" state Maryland
Posts: 1,751
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I dont notice any wobble in mine when Im bump firing.
 I didnt realize an AK was a shoulder fired weapon? All the pics Ive seen of the dune critters have them shooting over walls and from the hip. Ffh
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Its good to be alive and not crappin in a bag. Anthony Bourdain Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post. Stewie Griffin "Family Guy" The trouble with the world is that everybody in it is about three drinks behind. Humphrey Bogart Mason Dixon FAL Collectors Association |
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August 26, 2005, 10:41
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#8 |
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FALaholic #: 1841 Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 7,819
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I really like my underfolder AK. I don't find it uncomfortable. Not very wobbly, either.
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Ratas Calientes (Hot Rats) Rats are people too! |
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August 26, 2005, 10:54
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#9 |
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FALaholic #: 9286 Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,754
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I have a vector AK built on a Polish underfolder kit. It locks up rock solid in the open position.
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" I think that this would be the true way to go to paradise; learn the way to Hell in order to flee it". ~Machiavelli~ |
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August 26, 2005, 10:56
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#10 |
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Senior Member
Bronze Contributor
FALaholic #: 14672 Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 703
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How about side folders like the Tantal vs Underfolders. How do they compare in comfort and ease of operation.
JR |
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August 26, 2005, 11:02
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#11 | |
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Polak 210
Contributor
FALaholic #: 137 Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 3,874
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Quote:
Sidefolders are way superior in every aspect to the underfolfing AK. There was a bad batch on the sidefolders, I belive those were sold thru Federal Arms (think Century as a source or something...) Where in used condition folder groove was machined thru the hinge to accomodate weld open according to reqirements of old ban. Those are terrible. Oryginal sidefolders of EURO origin EGerman, Romanian, Polish, Russian are good, solid feel with full hill of the stock, not like underfolder halfhill. Cheek weld is still poor with wire types specialy on EGerman, better with Latest Russian skeleton types AK underfolders are of old prewar Schmmaisser design, kinda clever but not very functional. |
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August 26, 2005, 17:14
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#12 |
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FALaholic #: 17327 Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas
Posts: 55
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I own a Hungarian underfolder and it is extremely tight.
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"I am what I am." - Popeye |
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August 26, 2005, 20:59
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#13 |
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FALaholic #: 14583 Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Southern Colorado mtns and desert
Posts: 3,409
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My former underfolders, a Zastava and Chinee, both were somewhat wiggly compared to solid wood buttstocks. Both sent more felt recoil AND chapped, slapped and gouged at my right cheek. (No I aint some jowly guy either). Cool Factor is way high tho, and so is ease of concealment.
The only collapsable stock I care for at all is the AR-type, but mostly I'd rather have a solid shooting platform.
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Turning and turning in the widening gyre The falcon cannot hear the falconer; Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. W.B Yeats |
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August 26, 2005, 21:01
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#14 | |
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FALaholic #: 1125 Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Here right now
Posts: 17,638
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Quote:
Vince |
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August 26, 2005, 21:32
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#15 |
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Formerly Solvability
Bronze Contributor
FALaholic #: 6448 Join Date: May 2002
Location: HSV
Posts: 2,702
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I rank the folders this way.
1. tantal type side folder - easiest to open too 2. amd65 side folder 3. Polish type under folder - the u shape butt hits my shoulder the wrong way. If I were shooting for accuracy I would use a solid stock, but I would not be shooting an AK 
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August 26, 2005, 21:39
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#16 |
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Curio & Relic
Silver Contributor
FALaholic #: 8473 Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,265
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Get both!
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"We must, indeed, all hang togather or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately.": Ben Franklin Detain and Deport! |
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August 27, 2005, 02:26
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#17 | |
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Registered
FALaholic #: 5282 Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,219
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Quote:
 Your hip must hurt instead.My Clayco underfolder is wobbly and has always had some flex since new. It is not comfortalbe to shoot much either. Once I find a decent gun show in Oregon I'll be selling it to buy a fixed stock ak. |
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August 27, 2005, 05:01
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#18 | |
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Veteran Member
Contributor
FALaholic #: 9867 Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,122
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Quote:
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August 27, 2005, 08:27
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#19 |
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Registered
FALaholic #: 14372 Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 458
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Some underfolding stocks are more solid than others of course. Personally I would rather have a side-folder myself as long as it is not one of the Romy or EG jobs. IMO, they suck. The Chinese and Russian side-folders are FAR superior.
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August 27, 2005, 14:38
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#20 |
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Registered
FALaholic #: 14583 Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Southern Colorado mtns and desert
Posts: 3,409
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The Chinee sidefolder.. cant recall if it was a Norinco or what- had in the mid 1980's... well it locked up rock solid, no complaints there. Still wasnt very comfortable tho, had some "edges" to it. I swapped it off for a downfolder and regreted it as those "original" side folders are now really hard to find.
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Turning and turning in the widening gyre The falcon cannot hear the falconer; Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. W.B Yeats |
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August 27, 2005, 14:46
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#21 |
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Registered
FALaholic #: 10219 Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Seattle,Wa
Posts: 5,696
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IIRC those were Polytechs, one type had a Galil style stock and the other had a bakelite plastic comb.
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August 27, 2005, 20:38
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#22 |
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Registered
FALaholic #: 14372 Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 458
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Both Norinco and PT made the side-folders.
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August 27, 2005, 21:25
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#23 |
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Registered
FALaholic #: 11561 Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: 1187 Hundertwasser
Posts: 2,351
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I remember seeing pics from Chechnya several years ago of Russian troops, (Spetznaz, I think, ) who were carrying the old AKMS folders. They had what looked like battle dressings electric-taped to the stocks where their cheeks would touch. Seeing as it was winter in all the pics, and looked REALLY cold, I assume the padding was to keep their faces off the cold steel struts.
They couldn't fold them afterwards, though.... |
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August 27, 2005, 22:03
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#24 |
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Curio & Relic
Silver Contributor
FALaholic #: 8473 Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,265
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The folders are a little lighter and seem to make my teeth hurt a little from the concussion. Fun.
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"We must, indeed, all hang togather or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately.": Ben Franklin Detain and Deport! |
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August 28, 2005, 07:18
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#25 |
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Dinosaur
Bronze Contributor
FALaholic #: 2798 Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Burlington Vermont area
Posts: 13,262
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AMD 65 side folder works pretty well for me, Also, seems to be very solid. Only complaint is the catch rubs the top of my shooting hand if I'm not careful. Underfolders I've handled and shot don't fit me well at all and are uncomfortable.
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August 28, 2005, 15:41
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#26 | |
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Polak 210
Contributor
FALaholic #: 137 Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 3,874
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Quote:
You lost me then... Why do you call it Romie thing in your post? Both Romanian and Polish single wire sidefolders are made after EGerman design with some emprovement to the contur and latching mechanism. I have new condition stocks from that family EGerman, Romanian both tight and work well. Maybe you can elaborate more on the nature of your complain, for now we know it was "horrible". What fit, function etc...? I`m kinda stund with your comment cause I really like bolt on stock. Conversion is SO EASY and reversible, no trunion bulshit. Most importandly sidefolder allow use of siderail mounted optics, (forget with underfolder...). Whole gun package with sidefolder is so compact with decent ergonomy. I use it with high mounted red dot for cqb and it is so neat. My best creation yet.  I see lots of critics in regard to AK design, specialy from US audience mostly. But heck, system works as designed outhere in the field. It is not perfect but one all other are benchmarked ageinst. Remember those complains back in the day fir AK stocks being to short for US shooters then after few years we have baby "tactical" stocks avaiable for most systems  .....
Last edited by WJ-Polish Guy; August 28, 2005 at 15:51. |
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August 28, 2005, 18:25
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#27 |
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Registered
FALaholic #: 289 Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 4,927
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I'm with you, WJ. I like the Krink style the best but the E. German style are sure handy to install. I have one of the Romanians and it locks up nice and tight and feels a whole lot more sturdy than the underfolder type.
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Kalashnikov: The most successful point and click interface in the world. |
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August 28, 2005, 18:45
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#28 |
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FALaholic #: 1125 Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Here right now
Posts: 17,638
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Whatever you want to call it, I personally don't like them. If I recally correctly, either does Ratas. As for the trunion install, no more difficult that doing the front trunion.
If you gotta use the a side folder I would suggest an ACE it also counts as a US part. Vince |
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August 28, 2005, 19:23
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#29 | |
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Polak 210
Contributor
FALaholic #: 137 Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 3,874
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Quote:
Now, ACE stuff dosn`t feel right. Trunion adapter, hinge, stock... just adds bulk to whole package and look hugly too. Not to mention $2oos price tag. People do not overthink it. It is AK after all. Wire sidefolder was designed for no recoil 5.45x39 round but I see people instaling those on 12ga Saigas and happy with it. Besides Vince doesn`t like it, that should count for something. Most definitly works for intended purpose. |
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August 28, 2005, 19:49
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#30 | |
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FALaholic #: 1125 Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Here right now
Posts: 17,638
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Quote:
My first kit build I used the fixed stock trunion, but one of those wire stocks on it and hated it. It got a K-var US fixed stock set. Vince |
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August 28, 2005, 23:16
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#31 |
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Registered
FALaholic #: 17979 Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 13
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I used few years ago in a daily basic a realy Romania Army AK underfolder made in 1989 and was very extremely tight and solid ,and very very sharp shooter.After all this years ,I still in love with this gun and I hope one day to finding somewhere one to buy
  .Thank you. |
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August 29, 2005, 00:17
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#32 | |
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Registered
FALaholic #: 13827 Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 11,053
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Quote:
I also have a Clayco AKS underfolder, and it's pretty wobbly and fairly uncomfortable to shoot (what with no good spot to place your cheek). However, it is extremely handy to carry, which, to my way of thinking, makes up for its other flaws... So it'll remain in my hot little hands. But then again, it's not my only AK. Forrest |
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