New FAL'er Questions(6 images)

[mcallister]

Howdy all! Long time reader, first time whiner!
I just bought a Century 'R1A1' FAL. It is, however, all metric, and not a mix.
I took it out to the range today for the first time.

Just a couple observations:
1) Upon trying to load the first round, strip it from the magazine, it 'jams'.


2) First round, when I pulled the bolt back to give it a little more 'umph', it shoved the bullet into the casing. Ewwww.


3) So I go for the next round. The bolt does not go forward all the way. I have to back it a little, and push it forward. (And every 'first' round out of the mag does this as well.)


4) The rest of the rounds in the mag have no problems. Just the first one.
But the casings are getting bent or 'notched'.




5) ...It had 'brass kisses' on the outside of the dust cover. (And everywhere else that I highlighted.)


Questions, Suggestions, Slaps on the wrist?

[Lon Moer]

#5 is normal, they all do that.
There is an older thread about "tuning" the ejector to keep it from throwing the brass that far back, but I don't have that thread written down.

[vmtz]

did you buy it new? Also what receiver is it built on?

The brass and kisses are normal.

I would stone the sharp edges where the rounds are catching. Look at the brass and you will see where the receiver scratches them. You only need to break the edge.

Vince

[z28]

EJECTOR ANGLES LINK:

http://www.derbyfals.com/EJECTOR%20ANGLES.htm


Also, a link to a discussion about failures to feed like you describe:

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showt...hreadid=137122

[mcallister]

Ah. The details, sorry. I bought it new from a local dealer. ( He got it directly from Century. )

I can not find any other markings on the receiver other than Century's. No Imbel or Hesse. Any hints?

And what about the bolt not going all the way forward? The rounds aren't catching... it's the bolt itself. It wants to hang even when there aren't any rounds involved.

[Sig220]

The first thing about the bolt not going forward that is fairly easy to check is the rails........make sure they don't have any burrs. With your rifle broken open, the bolt should slide easily closed (unloaded of course). If you do have burrs, just smooth them out, clean them and lube them.

[Wade Kimmell]

You should see if the rat tail on the bolt carrier (BC) is dragging on the recoil spring tube. The rat tail is the rod extending aft from the bolt carrier.

If it is dragging it can hold up the bolt and carrier.

Pic number 2 indicates poor neck tension. That is an ammo problem, not a rifle problem.

Also, don't ride the charging handle forward. It needs to be "sling shot." Pull it all way back and let loose.

[ggiilliiee]

here are some better pics of the ejector ..yours wont take much work ....seeing where the kisses are ...then lap and polish everything till you can see yourself in the rail surfaces ...then smooth up the feed ramp..and or extend the feed ramp angle slightly.....100 % better function ....

[Court in Fl]

To me it looks like someone has worked on your feed ramp with a grinder.

It just don't look right to me. Looks to low.

Court in FL.

[gunsmith_tony]

Originally posted by Court in Fl
To me it looks like someone has worked on your feed ramp with a grinder.

It just don't look right to me. Looks to low.

Court in FL.

I was thinking the same thing. First thing I noticed.

[3doghouse]

Ggiilliiee has given you much good advice, but I also agree with the grinder attack theory.

Here is an enlargement:



It looks ground & rough!



In the pic above, #1 shows a weird groove that seems to be directing the bullets to point #2.


--------------------------------->

Pic number 2 indicates poor neck tension. That is an ammo problem, not a rifle problem.

I had a DSA type III that would do this when used with a DSA 5 round mag with surplus Port, Hirt, Samson, & even Black Hills 168 gr match. I stretched & bent the spring & it doesn't do it anymore.

I don't think it's an ammo or mag problem in this case. My money is on the feed ramp.

[Pistolwiz]

Originally posted by 3doghouse
Ggiilliiee has given you much good advice, but I also agree with the grinder attack theory.

Here is an enlargement:



It looks ground & rough!



In the pic above, #1 shows a weird groove that seems to be directing the bullets to point #2.


--------------------------------->





I had a DSA type III that would do this when used with a DSA 5 round mag with surplus Port, Hirt, Samson, & even Black Hills 168 gr match. I stretched & bent the spring & it doesn't do it anymore.

I don't think it's an ammo or mag problem in this case. My money is on the feed ramp.

Yep, Feed ramp. Return it for another showing what's wrong. The dealer can get it replaced by century. The only fixes are to replace the upper or remove it. Weld it up and reshape the ramp. That'll create problems with the steel getting annealed and ruin any warranty. So get it replaced. Most of these newest Century's are actually pretty good rifles. The occasional "Angry Beaver" still shows up on the product here and there though!

Great job pointing that out 3dog! Ruff! Ruff!

[mcallister]

Actually ya'll, both feed ramps look like that:


But that's not what is stopping the rounds. Actually in the below pic, it's not even touching the feed ramp. Where highlights is where it seems to be catching. It's catching on the magazine lip and/or the rail. I read in some post of ghillie(?)'s that I should be able to push a round out of the mag. It hangs up in the mag in the same place as when the mag is in the rifle.





And it's the same with all 5 mags I have. Two 'new' ones that came from Century. and three used ones from DSA.

[mcallister]

Oh... and there's never any trouble loading a round from the right side.

[3doghouse]

Like I said,

I think Ggiilliiee is right about what is stopping the rounds from freely releasing from the mags, and this is a BIG part of the overall issue.

My assertion is that there is more than 1 problem here.

The case getting pushed over the bullet (jamming the bullet into the case) is severely amplifying the problem Ggiilliiee described.

On their own, either problem will cause occasional FTF. Combined, they will almost guarantee it.

I also agree that there is no good way to fix the ramps without re-heat treating the receiver .

JB weld may work for 50 years, or 1 day. Welding may create a grenade.
Not sure I'd try either.

You should contact Century, and send them these pics. If they won't replace it, try Ggiilliiee's suggestions - they may negate the ramp issue altogether. If they will replace it, start over.

[Court in Fl]

I would guess this receiver started life as a Century Inch receiver with the UNI brow feed ramp, and was ground on in a attempt to get it to feed.

I think the tips of the bullets are getting ramed into the barrel breach just below the mouth of the chamber.
A higher ramp would lift up the round enough for the tip of the bullet to enter the chamber.

That's my .02

Court in FL.

[ce]

This is a typical, current Century receiver, and the feed ramps and barrel throat are as good as can be improved.
Almost. It's all about that left side, that's where it's jamming.

The problem is the sharp edges of the inner lip of the magazine, and the inner rail just above it on the receiver.
Smooth both areas out with a jewelers file to make the edges more round.

Sometimes the bolt-over-base is excerbated by the ejector block being to high on the right side of the receiver, so look for wear/contact on top there.

Also the bolt face engaging lip must be square and not rounded where the bolt engages the base of the round, or it will abandon the round and hop over it when it meets some resistance. Square it up.

Widen the left feed ramp to the left a little, if necessary, but I think you're right Mcallister, it's mostly a mag/ feed rail problem, so smooth 'em out, WTF, how you gonna roon it, it's a $5 magazine?

The barrel has been throated, but it should be as bright a polish as you can manage, and the same for the feed ramps, Use 400 grit paper on yer booger finger til they're mirrored. The front of the ramp is still too low, and the bullet nose got lodge at the base of the barrel throat, that's what caused that pushback on the one round, but polish it first and see if it goes away.
Now, take two beers, and call me in the morning.

[spatin]

I know this is off subject, but I sure would like to know how you guys are able to get those neat yellow and green lines and circles on the pictures and then upload them to the files.
It's kinda like a play analysis on the football games. Neat!
Please somebody PM me and tell me how?
Sidney

[vmtz]

Originally posted by spatin
I know this is off subject, but I sure would like to know how you guys are able to get those neat yellow and green lines and circles on the pictures and then upload them to the files.
It's kinda like a play analysis on the football games. Neat!
Please somebody PM me and tell me how?
Sidney

It is just Photoshop or Paint. I have never figured out how to up load pictuers to the Files, but I up load them to my ISP and paste the URL with an img tag.

Vince

[Surly]

In reference to the bolt not closing completely:

My R1A1 was fitted with a two piece gas piston. It began to come loose when I first had it out and I started getting the same malfunctions that you were having after 400+ rounds. Obviously. the piston was bent and I sluffed it off as being weak recoil springs and ordered a complete new set for the entire rifle (better price and if one set needs replaced...). I ordered a new piston for a spare not knowing that it was the problem.
Upon tearing the thing down for cleaning and respringing, I discovered the piston debacle. Check yours for being true and possibly loose where the piston meets the shaft and replace if need be. The difference in the spings was night and day as well. A new set of those might not hurt either.
The piston is an import part on mine and I had never encountered or entertained the notion of this part being a two piece affair. I did unscrew it and put it back together with green Lok-Tite and then retrued it. I think I'll get another replacement and round-file it, as I don't want a defective part in my spares cache.

[Pistolwiz]

Originally posted by Surly
In reference to the bolt not closing completely:

My R1A1 was fitted with a two piece gas piston. It began to come loose when I first had it out and I started getting the same malfunctions that you were having after 400+ rounds. Obviously. the piston was bent and I sluffed it off as being weak recoil springs and ordered a complete new set for the entire rifle (better price and if one set needs replaced...). I ordered a new piston for a spare not knowing that it was the problem.
Upon tearing the thing down for cleaning and respringing, I discovered the piston debacle. Check yours for being true and possibly loose where the piston meets the shaft and replace if need be. The difference in the spings was night and day as well. A new set of those might not hurt either.
The piston is an import part on mine and I had never encountered or entertained the notion of this part being a two piece affair. I did unscrew it and put it back together with green Lok-Tite and then retrued it. I think I'll get another replacement and round-file it, as I don't want a defective part in my spares cache.

Classic POS century 2 pc piston. It will let you down again. You can glue/locktite it all you want and it will bend again sooner or later. For around $30.00 or so you can have the confindence that your gas piston will not fail by getting a high quality US piston from several sources. Of course I'd rather you go here:

http://estore.websitepros.com/832529/Detail.bok?no=147

[mcallister]

Well... The feed problem seems to have worked itself out.
Again, it was just the first round that had problems. After that, there wasn't any trouble. So I would wiggle that first round in, and ended up shooting about 80 rounds through it. It no longer gets stuck on that first round.

But.... It still doesn't want to travel all the way forward on the first round.

After that first round... no trouble. But that first one needs some 'convincing'.

Oh. That pic of the bullet shoved into the casing... that was a one-time occurance. The feed rails do not inhibit the round chambering at all... suprisingly.

So, any further help on the carrier not traveling all the way forward on the first round? (Ejector catching it maybe?)