Centerfire Systems - Yugo "hand-select" AK kit

[W.E.G.]

Received today Item #M70B1-S $109.97 + $10.00 "hand select" fee.

Total price for one kit shipped $132.79

Listed on page 2 of Centerfire flyer May/June/July 2005
"VERY GOOD CONDITION"

I specified in my telephone order that the BORE on my kit should be VERY GOOD CONDITION.

Invoice included in item received today includes notation "Good bore."


Condition of bore was UNSATISFACTORY.
Four inches of the bore near the muzzle had extensive pitting. Not just light frosting. Big pits.
Worst of all, about a half inch back from the muzzle there was a full-circumference black ring which would not brush out. I probed the black ring with a paper clip, and it was extremely rough-textured. My theory is that the black ring is the byproduct of shooting some sort of grenades.

The rest of the kit had a lot of character, but would probably have been acceptable had it not been for the TOTALLY CRAPPY BORE. The gas tube was not pitted on the inside.

I returned it for exchange via USPS. My postage expense for returning the unsatisfactory product is $13.05

The gal who answered the phone promised me she would be sure I got a "good one" for replacement.

We shall see.

[ABNROCK]

Hope things pan out. I was thinking about buying one of their kits...now I'm luke warm on the issue.

Rocker

[scatter cat]

They seem to be hitting it right about 75% of the time. first order of 4 kits 2 were good 2 were P.O.S. Called and they exchanged no problem except the extra shipping 12.00 back. Replacemnts Very Good ++ . last order 1 underfolder kit Very good+ the first time. Will roll the dice and order another when I save a little more money.

[Nachoman]

I ordered 2 under folders from CFS. One kit was okay, but the bore was frosted and shot out. The second one was unsalvageable. I returned them, and the replacements were VG+. One has nearly all blueing and a bright bore with strong rifling. The second one just has some slight finish wear on the edges.

I don't know why they just can't send those kits out the first time.

[CactusCapt]

I just received 2 M70 "hand picked" fixed-stock kits today. I think they are getting short on the fixed kits--the bores on both are not what I was hoping for. One is very good with some frost, the other is stewing in Sweets 7.62 even as we speak and is good at best. Some pitting last 4 inches and frost the entire length. All matching parts on both. I must say I returned an underfolder a few weeks ago and it's replacement was fantastic. Normal trunion (not RPK) and damn near new bore, VG++ externally with all matching parts--Tara took care of me. I hope your replacement kit is worthy. Let us know how it looks when it arrives.

[Bullet]

I can't believe they are still sending out kits with bad bores, especially paying for hand pick. I had to send 4 kits back at a cost of $40.00+.

[CactusCapt]

Well, it looks like my questionable bore is starting to clean up. Several treatments with Sweets has produced several patches worth of black and green goo and now they're starting to go to a light grey. The lands and grooves are much sharper--the troops who were issued these rifles were obviously never issued cleaning kits, or just didn't care... Looks like I'll have 2 kits worth building. As an aside, I've had RC 98Ks that had worse bores and they shot surprisingly well, so I'm looking forward to some nice M70 receivers soon. And the underfolder I returned? The bore was absolute crap. Lands and grooves were barely visible, the muzzle was crap, the folding stock was bent, the rear sight was bent, and it was generally appalling. That was one of their early deliveries, and I understand they are a bit more careful what is shipped now.

[Adventurer_96]

I hate to sound like a broken record, but they did to me what they did to Gary and many others when I ordered an "Excellent" condition Yugo M-59 SKS (without the grenade launcher). This was back when they were rare during the early days of Yugo SKS imports about 2-3 years ago.

Two showed up, I had to keep one because everyone else was sold out, but the other was in such bad condition it was "fair" at best. They were totally nonplussed, I sent back the one and I've never done business with them since.

Too bad, since they have some cool stuff. Maybe I'll give them a chance to redeem themselves in a few years.

[davidgpo]

Thanks for the heads up, I was looking for an interesting variant on the AK and was just about to call Centerfire.
I think I will buy from someone more reputable.

David

[WJ-Polish Guy]

Yugo buyers be aware.

Yugo do not chrome their barrels and those guns, I think all of them, Mausers, SKSs and AKs went thru hell and exchange hands ater Yugo colapsed. Was that 15 YEARS ago?

It is my expirience that Yugo gun would look like new many times, unfired from outside and will have rusted, pitted bore.
On the other hand some bores wthich look like crap will clean up to mirror shine only after fireing it, no amount of cleaning will do it, only fire.

Now, how any merchand should do it? Who would pay for it and how much?
Those guns are cheap, you want them take your chances or forget bout it.

[kev]

For anyone who might be interested, and for what it's worth,......

I got in on the Group Buy from Centerfire for the Yugo AK kits last Fall. Pre-ordered 2 stamped fixed stock kits and one milled fixed stock kit. They were supposed to be VG/matching. All three were Good condition with poor bores. I kept mine(decent enough for the price)while many others sent theirs back for replacement or refund. Everyone who's reported a replacement has been very happy with what they gotten. Evidently the earliest kits were shipped out in a rush without inspection and lots of bad bores were delivered. From what I've seen and heard, Centerfire has been real good about backing their product and they're very easy to deal with. Like I said, I was OK with my kits and I have had nothing but good luck w/Centerfire in the past.

After hearing that the kits being delivered later were improving, I ordered two more milled/fixed stock kits about two months ago. Both were VG with VG bores. Happy, happy!

Based on those kits, I ordered three stamped/underfolder kits last month. Those too are VG or better w/excellent bores. From what I've heard of others and seen myself, odds are very good that you will receive a nice kit.

[W.E.G.]

The problem I see is in the offer and the product delivered.

They advertise "very good" condition kits, a customer pays an extra "hand pick" fee when placing the order, and SPECIFICALLY states that the kit must have a very good bore. Yet CFS ships a kit with a pitted barrel and a ringed muzzle. Is this just an "oopsie?" I thought the extra $10 was for somebody to take 10 seconds and make sure the bore didn't look like crap.

If they cannot provide (or cannot be bothered to provide) a product in the agreed condition, they should just sell the kits as "pot luck."

Obviously, there are kits with very good barrels in the bunch. Too bad the buyer has to go through a lot of inconvenience and some unnecessary expense to get the worthy product.

Hopefully the replacement will be up to the standard stated in the original contract. We shall see.

[kev]

I agree with you 100% Gary. Paying for select and specifying good bore condition should get you something you would be happy with, but I've seldom found that to be the case. I finally quit throwing money away at 'hand select' about 15 years ago after repeatedly finding that condition seemed to be worse than average more often than not. Now I buy a minimum of 2-3 of anything and 'hand select' my own self. I'm convinced that offering the higher price option is an industry joke.

No excuse for what you received; especially after the initial rush of orders were sent out and condition was found to be suspect. I'm kinda surprised that they sent it to you, but I'm still pretty sure they'll make it right.

[pmf]

I've come to the conclusion that paying extra money for a "hand pick" is a waste of money. I think they just grab whatever is on the top of the pile and stick it in a box. The charge is always so nominal ($10-$15) that its hard to resist paying it. You think most of the minimum wage yahoos working at these places even know how to grade a kit or judge a barrel? I bet not.

[W.E.G.]

I understand the concept of order-three, send two back.

However, I'm a bit uncomfortable with that tactic. Seems a bit opportunistic to me. Even quite cumbersome in circumstances like this. I really don't want to clean cosmolene from three "possible" barrels just to find one that is suitable.

I know what's good for the goose should be good for the gander. And it certainly seems like some operations function in such a way that the customer is practically forced to be equally harsh in the deal, or suffer the consequences.

I prefer the dealers who are competent to grade their product, and meet the terms of the agreement with the customer on the first try.

The hand-pick option does indeed seem to be a joke with some vendors. I'd like to see that fixed in practice, rather than abandoned.

[kev]

You misunderstood,........I don't send anything back. I'll just buy 2 or 3 or 5 or 10, hoping to get one I'm really happy with. The 'others' will come in handy soon enough. From what I've seen over the years it's only a matter of a year or two at most before the supply of any given item is exhausted and the 'dregs', 'returns', or whatever you wish to call them start looking pretty good. Do you remember people here sending excellent condition STG kits back because of a mis-match # or a missing spring or pin? Maybe a bit of dirt or a rust spot? I sure do. These were $150 kits that these same people would gladly pay $300 for today. $89 Imbel kits; $99 SA kits,.......none were too impressive the day I opened the boxes, but I'm glad I still have them and they look much better today, even tho I haven't yet touched them.

I kept my first three Yugo's even tho others were returning theirs and getting like new kits in return. The milled kit was bad enough that I donated it to a C2 manufacturer. We'll build it into a blaster post-sample MG and we'll 'have our way with it'. $100 shot,.......oh well. I'll get my C-note worth of fun out of it. The two stamped kits I'll keep hidden until time makes them look better. Shouldn't be long,.......

Still, it sucks that you can't trust to get the pick of the litter even if you pony up the extra cash. If they offer a hand-pick you should get it when you pay for it,.......no argument here. But really, if you don't want to push crud out of three bores for your own build, what makes you so sure the min wage guy in the warehouse is gonna push it for you? Unless the vendor is a one-man op, the parts picker in the back isn't going to see any of that hand-pick fee. I seriously doubt he even has access to a rod, solvent and patches.

Has anyone ever received a freshly cleaned bore when requesting a hand-pick? I sure haven't. That's what tipped me off to the scam. Order twenty different rifles from a dozen vendors and every rifle/kit is still packed in grease and dirt; you know no one has done anything other than grab and pack(and maybe chuckle a little).

Still hoping you get a really nice kit returned to you.

[gearlogo]

Hi Gary,

Mine was in good shape. The problem is that these kits are not gradeable by bore condition until after they have been cleaned. I lucked out and got a vg+ bore. The rest of the rifle/kit was ex+. This thing is cool. They are an AK as the US gov. would have built. Beefy steel, excellent sights (for an AK) and nice wood that fits us larger/tall folks. Hope you get a good one .
Bill

[CZ-75a]

At least you didn't buy a worn PP from them when you paid for an Excellent, then have to pay shipping to send it back in exchange for another average shape PP.

Bleh!

[W.E.G.]

Replacement arrived yesterday.

From the looks of the invoice, I eat the return shipping costs on the not-to-grade item shipped initially.
I'm very satisfied with the quality of the bore on the replacement. Rest of the front end looks pretty good too. Haven't had a chance to look very closely at the back end (mucho cosmolene), although it appears to be in correct condition. Won't know for sure until I can get it in the dishwasher.

My main objective was to get a very good bore. After the initial difficulties, I have it now.

Does anybody know how to clean cosmolene off the roller on a computer mouse?

[kfranz]

Does anybody know how to clean cosmolene off the roller on a computer mouse?

Get an Optical mouse....

[bykerhd]

Second on the optical mouse. Also, get one with the programmable function side buttons. I just left mine on back & forward.