Shipping Firearms via USPS - What a hassle!!

[mtang45]

Recently made a trade deal here on the files and was shipping two long guns via USPS to complete the deal today. I got a copy of the FFL from the receiving dealer and went to the PO counter, boxes addressed to him under my arm to ship them to him (I am not an FFL). I declared that I was shipping firearms (like I'm supposed to) and the folks behind the counter FREAKED!! They began to throw a million questions at me like "Do you have a permit on file with us to do that?". " Do you have an FFL?". After I calmly replied NO to both questions they stated "You can't ship firearms!". I said, why not they are both long guns? In which they replied "What are long guns?". This banter of questions and answers went on for several minutes with them sticking firm to the fact that I could not ship them. I finally asked are your regulations and policies different than the USPS? In which the lady clerk replied "Sir, we ARE the USPS!". I then stated "Good, now that we have established that, then I'm sure you can ship them!" They whipped out the USPS manual and began reading after 10 minutes of reading rules and regulations out loud, they concluded that in fact they could except rifles and shotguns (long guns) from private citizens as long as they were addressed to an FFL, AND I could show them a copy of his FFL (I did). So, were all ready to go...right! WRONG!!! they insisted that the common plastic shipping tape that I had used was not correct. That all firearms shipped registered mail had to be packaged with brown paper packing tape and that every seam on the box had to be completely covered. AND I could not just cover the plastic tape because the brown paper tape won't stick to it. I have to remove it first. So now I'm pissed....I bought some brown paper packing tape right there. Spread my packages on on the counter, whipped out my pocket knife and began stripping plastic tape and replacing with brown paper packing tape. An hour later the job was done and they less that cheerfully took the packages and shipped them.

Now you would think that I was doing this in some high crime infested ghetto post office by their reaction. But this was upscale suburbia with lots of pro gun folks running around everywhere. Three guns shops within 5 minutes drive of the post office. An indoor range, a couple of outdoor ranges just outside the city limits and an Annual Spring festival in the former downtown of this one time rural community called "Cole Younger Days".

Can anybody out there verify the brown tape thing? Thats what really pissed me off about this whole thing!

[kfranz]

Things vary from post office to post office. I've never had a problem at the local USPS counter....

[jm951]

I can hear the "postal" wisecracks even now....

With much of my family having been employed at some time by the USPS, the things they've seen, you don't surprise me one bit.

[W.E.G.]

http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/601.htm#wp1078124

4.0 Cushioning, Closure, Sealing, and Reinforcements
4.1 Volume
Loose‑fill cushioning must overfill the container before closure to hold the item and prevent its movement to an outside surface of the container or to other items in the package. Shock and pressure forces must be dissipated over as much of the surface of the item as possible. [C010.4.1]

4.2 Several Items Within Container
When several items are inside a package, they must be protected from each other as well as from external forces. Concentrated heavy items must not be packaged with fragile items unless extreme care is exercised to separate them from each other. Heavy items must be adequately stabilized. [C010.4.2]

4.3 Tape
Cellophane and masking tape may not be used for closure or reinforcement of packages but may be used to augment adhesive closures on envelopes or to cover staples on bags. [C010.5.1]

4.4 Paper Tape
Paper tape must be at least 60‑pound basis weight kraft. The adhesives on gummed tapes must be adequately activated before application and firmly applied with the tape extending at least 3 inches over the adjoining side of the box. [C010.5.2]

4.5 Tape Size
Except for pressure‑sensitive filament tape, tapes used for closure and reinforcement may not be less than 2 inches (or 48 mm metric) wide. Nonreinforced plastic tapes must be at least as strong in the cross direction as in the machine (long) direction. [C010.5.3]

4.6 Adhesive
Adhesives for closure on box flaps or on tapes must remain serviceable from ‑20 degrees to +160 degrees Fahrenheit. Hot‑melt adhesive may be used if at least four strips are applied on each part of the box flap where the outer flap overlays the inner flap; each strip is 3/16 inch wide after compression; the strips are not more than 1‑1/2 inches apart, with the first strip no more than 1/2 inch from the center seam; and all strips are the full width of the inner flap, unless hot‑melt adhesive is applied to 25% of the area where the outer flap lies over the inner flap. [C010.5.4]

4.7 Banding
When banding is used for closure and reinforcement, it must encircle the length and girth of the package at least once. If twine or cord is used for closure and reinforcement, it must be at least 20‑pound tensile strength and secured at an intersection at least once on each side. Loose strapping and metal strapping are not acceptable. [C010.5.5]

4.8 Staples and Steel Stitching
Staples and steel stitching are acceptable if spaced not more than 5 inches apart for easy and average loads (or 2‑1/2 inches apart for difficult loads) and not more than 1‑1/4 inches from the ends of the box. Boxes not meeting these requirements may be made acceptable by applying a strip of 3‑inch‑wide reinforced tape in the gap between the staples or by strapping to compensate for the gap in the staple closure. Improperly clinched staples in flats, envelopes, and cards are not acceptable. [C010.5.6]

[W.E.G.]

I have found that for shipping long guns, it is worth it to order a
single plastic Doskocil gun case from Cabela's or some such place.

The plastic case will arrive in a cardboard box.

Cut the box along the seams to turn it inside-out, so that only
brown carboard is exposed. Seal according to postal regs. Frankly,
I've always used heavy-duty celophane "packing tape." Looks like
that is probably against the rules. But, they never said anything to me
about it. In fact, I wrap the entire box in heavy-duty celophane
packing tape to protect the box.

I never told them what was in the box either. They ask whether it
is hazardous, perishable, or liquid. I say "No."

If somebody can find any reg. that says you gotta volunteer
the information about contents, please post it here.

[the gman]

My PO & my carrier are way cool.

I recently received an inch kit that had not been packaged properly, in fact there was no packing in the box whatsoever & the upper was stuck in across the corners at an angle, as the box was a bit too small. So with the kind & gentle handling that USPS are known for (!!), the flash eliminator had poked it's nose all the way out of the box & was having a good look around!

My carrier honked her horn for me to come get my parcel & said "looks like you got a rifle delivered?" & handed me the box, complete with offending FH sticking out. After assuring her it was just a box of spares, she allows how her dad used to be an FFL & she told 'em all at the PO that I was a cool guy & wouldn't do anything against postal regs. They all twigged it was me, the crazy local Brit with the big smile & neat accent & agreed it was no problem....sometimes, it helps to be a stranger in a strange land! Obviously, YMMV, but for me, the Postal folks are very friendly & helpful, just as I am with them.

Now, UPS is a whole 'nother story!!! Tried to ship a rifle for service via UPS so box it up, check the web, yep, outlet here not 3 miles away for UPS at Staples, excellent. Go to Staples, fill out form & stand in line for 10 mins while the supposed manager gers her sh*t together & then get told "Firearm? See, we can't ship that from here, you'll have to go to UPS themselves". Slightly annoyed, leave shop & return home for further investigation on web. Yep, cool, 'nother UPS place just on the outskirts of Albuquerque. Go to store & same thing, can't ship from here, have to go to the MAIN depot way on the other side of town! Eventually gets rifle shipped but what a PITA!!!

My UPS delivery guy is another cool guy, never complains about all the stuff he leaves for me, (ammo, kits, ammo, big boxes, ammo) asked me where I wanted it all if I wasn't in, a good guy. His stand-in is a tosser tho'!

[Gunga Din]

You need paper tape only for Registered Mail.
Regular plastic shipping tape works for everything else. Actually some POs sell plastic tape.
Just ship Priority Mail, insured, w/delivery confirmation.
IMHO, Registered Mail is kinda useless for most items, unless you are sending stock certificates or .....horrors..... cash.
My PO didn't want to see an FFL, I checked first.

[K. Funk]

I called my PO first. They said the only questions I need to answer were Perishable, Hazardous, Liquid, Vegetable. Did not have to declare it as a firearm.

krf

[mrbonecrusher]

This is constantly being beat to death, the postal regulations are reasonably clear and so is the ATF and the 1968 GCA. The 68GCA says you do need to declare the contents as a firearm. The ATF says yes you can ship long guns through the mail if all US laws are complied with. The PS also says yes you can ship a long gun as a private person just so you are lawfully allowed to posses such a thing. Clear tape is not always cellophane and the heavier stuff does meet PO requirements. If they pull this sort of BS get their names and ask to speak with the Postmaster. If that doesn't work haul their sorry asses into court for not following the %^*&(* law that the rest of us have to.

[mrbonecrusher]

I live for the day the USPS tries to pull this on me. Even with a FFL I have had one close brush with an ignorant clerk. Unfortunately somebody who knew what to do was working at the next window and took care of "training" the DA.
The regs do not say only paper tape, the set the standard for paper tape. Read the second paragraph of 4.5.
Then drop on down to 11.3, 11.4 and 11.6 to cover the ins and outs. This is direct from the USPS web site search. Right here, The USPS page for shipping firearms is the link.

4.0 Cushioning, Closure, Sealing, and Reinforcements
4.1 Volume
Loose‑fill cushioning must overfill the container before closure to hold the item and prevent its movement to an outside surface of the container or to other items in the package. Shock and pressure forces must be dissipated over as much of the surface of the item as possible. [C010.4.1]

4.2 Several Items Within Container
When several items are inside a package, they must be protected from each other as well as from external forces. Concentrated heavy items must not be packaged with fragile items unless extreme care is exercised to separate them from each other. Heavy items must be adequately stabilized. [C010.4.2]

4.3 Tape
Cellophane and masking tape may not be used for closure or reinforcement of packages but may be used to augment adhesive closures on envelopes or to cover staples on bags. [C010.5.1]

4.4 Paper Tape
Paper tape must be at least 60‑pound basis weight kraft. The adhesives on gummed tapes must be adequately activated before application and firmly applied with the tape extending at least 3 inches over the adjoining side of the box. [C010.5.2]

4.5 Tape Size
Except for pressure‑sensitive filament tape, tapes used for closure and reinforcement may not be less than 2 inches (or 48 mm metric) wide. Nonreinforced plastic tapes must be at least as strong in the cross direction as in the machine (long) direction. [C010.5.3]

4.6 Adhesive
Adhesives for closure on box flaps or on tapes must remain serviceable from ‑20 degrees to +160 degrees Fahrenheit. Hot‑melt adhesive may be used if at least four strips are applied on each part of the box flap where the outer flap overlays the inner flap; each strip is 3/16 inch wide after compression; the strips are not more than 1‑1/2 inches apart, with the first strip no more than 1/2 inch from the center seam; and all strips are the full width of the inner flap, unless hot‑melt adhesive is applied to 25% of the area where the outer flap lies over the inner flap. [C010.5.4]

4.7 Banding
When banding is used for closure and reinforcement, it must encircle the length and girth of the package at least once. If twine or cord is used for closure and reinforcement, it must be at least 20‑pound tensile strength and secured at an intersection at least once on each side. Loose strapping and metal strapping are not acceptable. [C010.5.5]

4.8 Staples and Steel Stitching
Staples and steel stitching are acceptable if spaced not more than 5 inches apart for easy and average loads (or 2‑1/2 inches apart for difficult loads) and not more than 1‑1/4 inches from the ends of the box. Boxes not meeting these requirements may be made acceptable by applying a strip of 3‑inch‑wide reinforced tape in the gap between the staples or by strapping to compensate for the gap in the staple closure. Improperly clinched staples in flats, envelopes, and cards are not acceptable. [C010.5.6]

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11.0 Other Restricted and Nonmailable Matter
11.1 Pistols, Revolvers, and Other Concealable Firearms
11.1.1 Definitions
The terms used in this standard are defined as follows:

a. Handgun means any pistol, revolver, or other firearm or device the mailing of which is regulated by this standard.

b. Pistol or revolver means a handgun styled to be fired by the use of a single hand and to fire or otherwise expel a projectile by the action of an explosion, spring, or other mechanical action, or air or gas pressure with enough force to be used as a weapon.

c. Firearm means any device, including a starter gun, designed to, or that may readily be converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosion, spring, or other mechanical action, or air or gas pressure with enough force to be used as a weapon.

d. Other firearms capable of being concealed on the person include, but are not limited to, short‑barreled shotguns and short‑barreled rifles.

e. Short‑barreled shotgun means a shotgun that has one or more barrels less than 18 inches long. The term short‑barreled rifle means a rifle that has one or more barrels less than 16 inches long. These definitions include any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches. A short‑barreled shotgun or rifle of greater dimension may be regarded as nonmailable when it has characteristics to allow concealment on the person.

f. Licensed manufacturer and licensed dealer mean, respectively, a manufacturer of firearms or a bona fide dealer of firearms, duly licensed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms of the Department of the Treasury, under the Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90‑618), 18 USC 921, et seq.

g. Antique firearm means any firearm (including those with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898, or any replica thereof, if such replica:

1. Is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition.

2. Uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and that is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade. [C024.1.1]

11.1.2 Handguns
Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (referred to as handguns) are nonmailable unless mailed between the parties listed in 11.1.3 and 11.1.5 after the filing of an affidavit or statement required by 11.1.4 and 11.1.6. [C024.1.2]

11.1.3 Authorized Persons
Subject to 11.1.4, handguns may be mailed by a licensed manufacturer of firearms, a licensed dealer of firearms, or an authorized agent of the federal government or the government of a state, territory, or district, only when addressed to a person in one of the following categories for use in the person's official duties:

a. Officers of the Army, Coast Guard, Air Force, Navy, Marine Corps, or Organized Reserve Corps.

b. Officers of the National Guard or militia of a state, territory, or district.

c. Officers of the United States or of a state, territory, or district, whose official duty is to serve warrants of arrest or commitment.

d. USPS employees authorized by the Chief Postal Inspector.

e. Officers and employees of enforcement agencies of the United States.

f. Watchmen engaged in guarding the property of the United States, a state, territory, or district.

g. Purchasing agent or other designated member of agencies employing officers and employees included in 11.1.3c. through 11.1.3e. [C024.1.3]

11.1.4 Affidavit of Addressee
Any person proposing to mail a handgun under 11.1.3 must file with the postmaster, at the time of mailing, an affidavit signed by the addressee setting forth that the addressee is qualified to receive the firearm under a particular category of 11.1.3a. through 11.1.3g, and that the firearm is intended for the addressee's official use. The affidavit must also bear a certificate stating that the firearm is for the official duty use of the addressee, signed by one of the following, as appropriate:

a. For officers of Armed Forces, by the commanding officer.

b. For officers and employees of enforcement agencies, by the head of the agency employing the addressee to perform the official duty with which the firearm is to be used.

c. For watchmen, by the chief clerk of the department, bureau, or independent branch of the government of the United States, the state, the territory, or the district by which the watchman is employed.

d. For the purchasing agent or other designated member of enforcement agencies, by the head of such agency, that the firearm is to be used by an officer or employee included in 11.1.3c. through 11.1.3e, Authorized Persons. [C024.1.4]

11.1.5 Manufacturers and Dealers
Handguns may also be mailed between licensed manufacturers of firearms and licensed dealers of firearms in customary trade shipments, or for repairing or replacing parts. [C024.1.5]

11.1.6 Certificate of Manufacturers and Dealers
A licensed manufacturer or dealer need not file the affidavit under 11.1.4, but must file with the postmaster a statement on Form 1508 signed by the mailer that he or she is a licensed manufacturer or dealer of firearms, that the parcels containing handguns (or major component parts thereof) are customary trade shipments or contain such articles for repairing or replacing parts, and that to the best of his or her knowledge or belief the addressees are licensed manufacturers or dealers of firearms. [C024.1.6]

11.1.7 FBI Crime Detection Bureaus
Handguns may be mailed without regard to 11.1.3 through 11.1.6 if:

a. Addressed to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), or its director, or to the scientific laboratory or crime detection bureau of any agency whose members are federal law enforcement officers or officers of a state, territory, or district authorized to serve warrants of arrest or commitment; or

b. Offered by an authorized agent of the federal government as an official shipment to any qualified addressee in categories 11.1.3a. through 11.1.3g, or to a licensed manufacturer or dealer of firearms or to a federal agency. [C024.1.7]

11.2 Antique Firearms
Antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces may be accepted for mailing without regard to 11.1.3 through 11.1.6. [C024.2.0]

11.3 Rifles and Shotguns
Although unloaded rifles and shotguns not precluded by 11.1.1e and 11.1.2 are mailable, mailers must comply with the Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90‑618, 18 USC 921, et seq., and the rules and regulations promulgated thereunder, 27 CFR 178, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not precluded by 11.1.1e. [C024.3.0]

11.4 Legal Opinions on Mailing Firearms
Postmasters are not authorized to give opinions on the legality of any shipment of rifles or shotguns. Contact the nearest office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for further advice. [C024.4.0]

11.6 Prohibited Parcel Marking
For any parcel containing a firearm or a ballistic or switchblade knife, any marking that indicates the contents is not permitted on the outside wrapper or container. [C024.6.0]

[Court in Fl]

Hello mtang45, I had a similar experience at my Post Office.
I showed them my FFL and the regulations I printed right off their web site.
I was told the only way I can ship a firearm was regestered mail and then they started the paper tape crap.

This guy behind the counter said all the regulations changed after 9-11.
So I asked what are the new regulations and can I have a copy of them ?

He said they had not been printed yet.

(It was clear he was making this up as he went along.)

That was the last time I tried useing the post office to mail a firearm.
I ended up going to UPS and had no problem there.
Now I use FedEx ground for most of my shipping needs when it comes to firearms.

Court in FL.

[terrapin88]

Court, I used to use FEDEX ground for long guns until one day recently when I tried to ship a C&R rifle to a C&R holder. They told me that now even long guns have to go overnight! I tried to explain to the soccer mom clerks the law and what regs I had read on the FEDEX website. They spent 10 minutes on the phone talking to someone who was just as clueless trying to figure out if I can send an 80 year old bolt action rifle fedex ground. I kept telling the clerk to explain to whomever she was talking to that the rifle was going from FFL to FFL. She kept nodding and and talking on the phone and then looks at me and says "what do you mean by FFL?" "what's an FFL?" So this woman who 10 minutes before was snidely telling me she knew the firearm laws and regs now is asking me what an FFL is. Bottom line? Rifle has to go PRIORITY overnite. Just like a handgun. I laughed and said no thanks. BTW, if you declare you are shipping ammo, same story. Overnite shipping. Next time I need to ship a rifle out I won't say a word about what's in the box. I use the USPS now anyway. No hassles yet.

C-

[Quake Guy]

Nope, sounds pretty close to my experience although I didn't have to use special tape.

I live in Phoenix which if not the most pro-gun urban area in the country, is pretty close.

Its experiences like these that drove me to learn many gunsmithing skills and I rarely ever send anything for warranty work. Its just easer for me to do it myself and buying $20 of parts is less hassle than begging a counter worker to take $20 for shipping such an evil death machine across state lines...

[gunsmith_tony]

Originally posted by Court in Fl
Now I use FedEx ground for most of my shipping needs when it comes to firearms.

Yep. I did the USPS and the UPS thing. Switched to FedEx and haven't had a single issue since.