Ethics of my neighbor hunting with bait

[TrooperDan]

I live in North Carolina, in a pretty rural area. There are three houses each on a couple of acres on a dead-end "road" . I am the last house on this road. There is a swampy area on one side on the road and there are a few deer in there; I've seen as many as 5-6 in my yard when I come home, often right in the driveway.

My two neighbors have teamed up and have a tree stand right on the edge of the road and they have been baiting right under the tree stand for a couple of months, putting out corn, a salt lick and now they have just added apples.

Last night, about 5:00, they killed a deer, off their property (but not on mine). Does it sounds like they are legal, much less ethical hunters? Someone that was looking in the right spot could see the tree stand from the paved road. I'm not anti-hunting but, gees, there should be some sport in it, not shooting deer from your front porch!

I'm tempted to drop a dime but there guys look like they are from the cast of Delieverance and my house is unoccupied during the day!

[dlmpsy]

It's a little dangerous to be hunting that close to the houses, and the road. In the state where I live it is illegal to hunt within "x" number of yards of a baited area, to shoot "x" number of yards near a home, to hunt within "x" of yards near a road, or to shoot across a road. Sorry, I can't remember the exact yards, but I don't do any of these things, so there is no reason for me to know.

[Jolly Rodgers]

Click Here for the North Carolina hunting regs. I took a quick peek and didn't see anything indicating that taking deer over bait was illegal. But, I didn't read the entire document. You may also have local regs that apply.

[Bentley8]

I have the NC state regs right in front of me. In general, there is no statewide prohibition against baiting, or putting up a tree stand on your own property. However, some counties do put extra restrictions, such as baiting, discharging a firearms close to a road, etc.

Tell me what county you live in and I'll see if the regs indicate and wrong-doing goin' on here.

jeff b.

[masman]

baiting is unethical vermont is working on making it illegal next year.

[16R40]

Originally posted by TrooperDan
I live in North Carolina,......................but there guys look like they are from the cast of Delieverance

that sounds about normal for anyplace south of the mason-dixon line.

[elbo]

And General Sherman weights in on ethics.
Y'all know it's a place just outside London. Ask Mike.

[wt]

baiting is unethical vermont is working on making it illegal next year.

Masman,

The legal means and methods of hunting vary from region to region and are usually determined by the traditional means and methods of that region.

If baiting is unethical, than I guess >90% of all deer hunters in Texas are unethical. If you find baiting unethical, then I suppose would probably have a problem with hunting deer with dogs. This would mean that you would also consider the fine residents of Mississippi and Georgia (that legally engage in this traditional form of hunting) as "unethical hunters ".

My father-in-law lives in Nebraska and engages in a form of fishing ("snagging") during a particular time of year that is illegal in Texas (under any situation) and is rather foreign to me. If I told him that he was a unethical sportsman because he snags fish, he would probably bust me in the mouth (and rightfully so).

Just because one state is working on "making it illegal next year" does strengthen you argument. That is like saying "The fine state of Massachusetts i s trying to legalize gay marriage", and trying to use the statement to convince GWB that is gay marriage is right.

Why do you think it is unethical?

Have you ever baited?

If you have, tell me why it is bad because this uneducated, unethical hunter knows no better.

If you haven't... S.T.F.U.

wt

[762 shooter]

I don't think baiting is unethical. I think it has it's place. If you start saying baiting is unethical then how far behind can decoying be? Using camo? Using dogs? Using a gun? Using a bow? Using a rock? I use a scoped rifle that sends a bullet down rrange at 3000 f.p.s. and wear excellent camo and still can't get meat. If those guys paid for tags and license and obeyed all laws, then more power to them. Not the way I would have done it but thats neither here nor there. Thank God for grocery stores. It has been my experience that hunters are good at policing themselves. Those that aren't, aren't hunters in my opinion.

[masman]

Originally posted by wt


Masman,

The legal means and methods of hunting vary from region to region and are usually determined by the traditional means and methods of that region.


Why do you think it is unethical?

Have you ever baited?

If you have, tell me why it is bad because this uneducated, unethical hunter knows no better.

If you haven't... S.T.F.U.

wt

have i ever baited? no i've also never used a spotlight to jack deer out of season either

why do i think its unethical? because it turns a hunter into a shooter also the surviving deer who have been feeding off that pile of bait will rely on it for thier food source and when winter comes theyre going to be hurting.winters here in vermont are extremly different than texas.our deer "yard up" meaning they go into soft woods to escape the elements generaly they stay ther for the winter.but if they get into the habit of going to a area in search of food it takes them out of thier yards in search of food.it exposes them to dogs,coyotes and the elements.
i come from a family of hunters while i might not be the most succesful of the bunch my dad and my grandfather (when he was alive) were two of the best deer hunters ever to set foot in the green mtns.both tracked and read sign to get their deer and they didnt bait.

[masman]

http://www.thechamplainchannel.com/e...62/detail.html

[Derby FALs]

Deer are so thick here that damn near anything goes to get them thinned out..

[Rocky_TFC]

SOme people are so stupid. The least they could do is be quite about it and Go Bow hunting but chances are, if they havea tree stand and some bait. Hey why not shoot em at 2 Am in the morning right? What a bunch of ignorant animals.

I got a couple of these jackass nieghbors myself.

[cabofdoom]

Originally posted by masman


have i ever baited? no i've also never used a spotlight to jack deer out of season either

masman,

I hope you are not implying that someone who would bait would jack a deer, since I have baited deer (in Vermont) and would NEVER consider spotlighting a deer, period

Originally posted by masman


why do i think its unethical? because it turns a hunter into a shooter also the surviving deer who have been feeding off that pile of bait will rely on it for thier food source and when winter comes theyre going to be hurting.winters here in vermont are extremly different than texas.our deer "yard up" meaning they go into soft woods to escape the elements generaly they stay ther for the winter.but if they get into the habit of going to a area in search of food it takes them out of thier yards in search of food.it exposes them to dogs,coyotes and the elements.
i come from a family of hunters while i might not be the most succesful of the bunch my dad and my grandfather (when he was alive) were two of the best deer hunters ever to set foot in the green mtns.both tracked and read sign to get their deer and they didnt bait.

Also, I think you may be confusing baiting with feeding.
You bait fish. You bait traps, you bait predators with the promise of food. If I want to carry fifty pounds of apples or carrots a mile+ through the woods about 1 week before rifle season and drop them 75-100 yard off my tree stand in a lame attempt to bait the one dominant buck in ten square miles, that dose not make me less the hunter than anyone, it make me an adaptive hunter.

I live in an area that has vast tracks of posted land and suburban sprawl. Us Champlain Valley hunters are not afforded the luxury of tracking deer for miles.
(I will venture there are many areas like this across the US)
We have gotten pretty talented at finding sign...how else would we know where to hang a stand. I have also tracked deer over half of Belvedier VT

I do agree with you if by baiting you take offense with hunters who attract deer to a single spot with a daily feedings at a predetermined place and time for months and months. Like old men on a park bench feeding pigeons with stale bread.

COD

HAPPY HOLIDAYS

[masman]

i stole this from another site but this is how i feel on the subject

What Makes a Sportsman?

Fair chase allows the hunter to pursue game, using hunting skills, knowledge of wildlife and outdoor savvy, without putting game at an unfair disadvantage. Following the rules of fair chase makes you more than a hunter, it makes you a "sportsman."

Some actions may be legal and still be unfair, based on your abilities, your equipment and the animals' abilities to get away. Sportsmen respect wildlife and will never do anything that doesn't "feel right." Whenever hunters doubt whether actions are legal, responsible or safe, they must give the advantage to wildlife

[Survey Punk]

Trooper D,
I am also in NC and can state most emphatically that hunting over bait is unlawful, illegal, and bad mojo to boot. If the Critter Cops get wind of a baited stand they will stake it out for days to try to catch the goon. Also if goon 1 baits a stand and goon 2 climbs into it with a gun, even if he doesn't know the bait is there, goon 2 is GUILTY of hunting over bait!
Some years ago the locals were having duck blind wars and would sneak out at night in boats and liberally dump corn around blinds in their area in hopes of causing "problems" for their neighbors who were getting too close to their chosen spot. Well the whole thing backfired 'cause everyone was doing it! The ducks got fat that year and the paper was full of cases of hunting over bait.
Most of the perps were doctors and lawyers, by the way.

JB

Oh yea...... Don't rat on your neighbors. They'll get theirs soon enough.

[Muggzy]

Originally posted by masman
i stole this from another site but this is how i feel on the subject

That statement would pretty much sum up how I feel about it.

If you cheat......then.....shame on ya!

I think I'll copy that Masman and lay it here where a few other can read it.

Thanks!

[cabofdoom]

Originally posted by masman
i stole this from another site but this is how i feel on the subject

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What Makes a Sportsman?

Fair chase allows the hunter to pursue game, using hunting skills, knowledge of wildlife and outdoor savvy, without putting game at an unfair disadvantage. Following the rules of fair chase makes you more than a hunter, it makes you a "sportsman."

Some actions may be legal and still be unfair, based on your abilities, your equipment and the animals' abilities to get away. Sportsmen respect wildlife and will never do anything that doesn't "feel right." Whenever hunters doubt whether actions are legal, responsible or safe, they must give the advantage to wildlife
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So now, while I may be a hunter, I am no sportsman.

I take exception to that. The two guns I use for deer have no scopes and my blackpowder is an old TC Hawkins, how about you? I dont use an atv to ge in the woods I walk. Do you? Do you use camoflage, cover scents, attractor scents, or calls such as grunts or rattles? All of which deminish the concept of fair chase. Truth be told, just about anything short of running down a deer in the same manner as any alpha predetor deminishes the concept of fair chase

Next, where do you draw the line? how about food plots? Setting up on an old abandon apple orchard found in the woods.
Hell, hunting during the rut gives one an unfair advantage as the bucks are preoccupied with breeding and not on their "A game". Do you ever use a stand? Deer don't offten look up for threats. A small bait pile is just another tool in the the pursuit of one of the most elusive game animals in North America.
Fishermen use fishfinders...is this unsportsman like?

I don't think that a sportsman is limited by your definition, but is one who shows the proper reverence to the game and the hunting experience.
I may not see the issue as monochromatic as you but never imply that I am any less of a hunter or sportsman that my uncle, your grandfather, or her brother inlaw. That dog wont hunt...no ifs, and, or buts


Have a great holiday season....and...CHEERS



COD

[wt]

I respect the opinions of anyone that doesn't agree with baiting. I do not appreciate anyone that says I am an unethical hunter because I hunt the way I was taught by my father and his father. To me that is an insult. Baiting (hunting near a feeder that dispenses corn) to me is no different then using decoys for duck hunting, using the scent of a doe in heat to lure in a buck, calling in a turkeys in spring, or fishing with minnows. If you do not feel the same, fine. Do not call me unethical though.

I dont use an atv to ge in the woods I walk. Do you?

What does using an ATV have to do with anything? Do you drive to the woods? Would you feel the same if it was a horse? Walking through the "woods" of some states would be like a stroll through central park compared to walking through the catctus/mesquite thickets of south Texas. I use an ATV because the area I hunt is 3 miles from the nearest road and is nearly impassible with even a four wheel drive truck. I would challenge anyone to walk these same 3 miles, kill a deer and then carry it out.

[Jolly Rodgers]

Originally posted by Survey Punk
I am also in NC and can state most emphatically that hunting over bait is unlawful, illegal, and bad mojo to boot.

I posted a link to the North Carolina game regs and I don't find anywhere in them a prohibition on hunting deer over bait. Perhaps you wouldn't mind showing me where in the regs it is addressed, since you are so familiar with the laws of NC?

[dougjones31]

Baiting is legal in some areas of South Carolina. I live on the county line. If I hunt in front of my house I cannot bait. If I hunt behind my house I can. Go figure. I hunt behind my house more often.

Ethics.....that is all in the eyes of the beholder. If you are hunting for trophies then I do not think it is ethical.....if you are hunting for food then I think it is.

How many times do you catch fish without Bait? Is that unethical?


I bet NC is like SC.....differnet game management regions have different rules.

[Sig220]

Opinions are like........noses. Everybody has them. Just because you opinion and mine are different, one is not necessarily "right" and one is not necessarily "wrong"

The baiting issue is the same. Some try to give more validity to thier opinion by trying to add to other definitions...for example "sportsman" or "sporting" but it is still just an opinion.

People in some parts of the country eat things that people in the other parts of the country think is not a good thing to eat...........so what? If you eat mountain oysters, crawfish, mayhall jelly,(add your own here!) or any number of different things, just because somebody else doesn't like it does not make it wrong.

Hunting over bait should be a non issue where LEGAL. Any other opinion on the matter is just that.

edited to add: the use of scopes, bait while fishing, atv's is more of the same, is using artificial bait "sporting" it all depends on you opinion/custom, some of you sound like we should be living by coal lights and walking to the woods and salting all the meat we can't eat immediately. Hey, if thats you more power to you, but don't think that your opinion will carry any wait with my opinion/custom/traditions.

[TrooperDan]

Hi guys, Thanks for all of the replies and info; it appears that baiting, even right under your stand is OK in my area of NC. I "thought" it might not be legal but I was more bothered about the sporting aspect, both of baiting and literally shooting deer right from your front porch. Hopefully they will use all the meat from the kill.

I'm sure the deer in this area needed culling, I've seen as many as 5-6 on my property at one time and I doubt the area would sustain that many through the winter. Better to fall to a hunters bullet instead of a miserable death from starvation! It just seemed to me there should be more effort involved in making the kill!

[762 shooter]

I use rocks from the area I'm hunting in. I have to get within 10 feet of the animal I intend to kill cuz my throwing arm sucks and I have to hit it on the head. When there are no rocks available I have to use my bare hands. The animal usually suffers for about forty five minutes when I brain them. I am the ultimate sportsman? Respect makes a sportsman.

[JohninVT]

I thought that baiting was legal in VT so long as the bait was a locally occuring food source. Salt licks are prohibited but putting a bushel of apples near your tree stand that borders an apple orchard isn't. To me there isn't much difference hunting near/in old apple orchards than setting out a bushel of apples. A salt lick is like deer cocaine.....apples are just......apples.

[dougjones31]

Put out Corn and Harvest a Deer.....sounds like a good trade to me.

Baiting is more common than you think. All Dove fields are baited(planted crop). All Duck hunts are baited(they come to Water). Every type of hunting has baiting involved.

You say it is unethical to bait deer, but I bet your ass uses Tink's 69. Isn't that baiting? Luring? I would say it is worse to take advantage of the deers' sex drive than it is to tempt them with food.

[Survey Punk]

Regret to say I was wrong. It IS legal to hunt deer over bait in NC. Though you can not hunt bear,turkeys, or federal stuff (ducks,doves,etc).

46 years old and STILL dumb as a box of rocks!
JB

[dougjones31]

Originally posted by Survey Punk
Trooper D,
I am also in NC and can state most emphatically that hunting over bait is unlawful, illegal, and bad mojo to boot.

How emphatically?

[Falcon]

If you are hunting for trophies then I do not think it is ethical.....if you are hunting for food then I think it is.

Whether it's a P&Y-class Buck or a mature doe...they both taste the same on the end of a fork. I just prefer to have large handles to aid in dragging it out of the woods.

[Muggzy]

TrooperDan,

There are things you can do around their tree stand so the deer will NOT approach near their stand.

But I would say that is not ethical

If they need the meat then ( I would ) leave it alone

If they are selling the meat......well .....

Plenty of deer around there? then.....leave it alone.

Getting into a big sqabble over a couple of deer does not seem worth the hassle to me.

If safety is an issue then let the proper people handle it.

I hunt with a guy that poaches deer. He knows damn well I don't condone it and he wont do it while I'm in the area. But I know he has that .243 behind the seat. Will I turn him in ? NO Will I tell him what I think about it ? yup...sure have. Are we still friends? yes

I like what Sig220 had to say about it.

Opinions are like noses ( man....that's the nicest way I've heard it put)

[perdurabo]

In places like Texas where there is essentially no public land to speak of and what land is available is usually small 50-200 acre parcels of relatively flat open land. The kind of "stalk" hunting that is common in more western states is essentially impossible here. Hunting in a stand (whether or not its over bait) in places like the Texas Hill country or South Texas scrubland is pretty much the only method with any appreciable chance of success.

Sure, its supposed to be challenging and it would be very unsportsmanlike to hunt fish in a barrel, but I have heard of very few people in Texas who have consistently stalked and killed deer on texas-sized deer leases. In places like Colorado and Montana, the terrain affords you a chance to spot your prey well before they sense you and to stalk within shooting distance. In places like Texas, if you were to try and stalk hunt you will most likely be detected by the deer well before you can detect him and since leases are relatively small, by the time you notice the aminal, its well out of range and probably across the fence onto someone else's property. Sure, I've heard anecdoes of people walking up on a distracted big buck tha they were able to kill now and again, but for the most part they were probably on the way to their stand when doing so and its not something that happens very often at all.

That being said, there are lots of high fenced ranches, especially in Texas, that offer "canned" hunts where they essentially drive you right up to deer who are tame as cattle and let you have your pick to shoot for a trophy fee. To me, this kind of hunting is indeed pointless because its simply killing livestock for an overpriced fee. I have hunted in Idaho and Montana and know what "real" stalk hunting is all about, and in a lot of ways I prefer this kind of hunting. But I live in texas and if I want to be able to hunt for meat affordably, I have to hunt here...and if I insisted on never using a deer stand and using the same methods I would use in Montana to hunt deer on the 50 acre lease I have in Texas, my success rate would be about nil all the time...and I suspect even the most seasoned hunters would be hard pressed to do any better.

You use the mothods that afford you at least SOME chance of success depending in the area youre hunting in. Its always possible to use overkill and take the fun/sportsmanship out of the experience, and its still fun to hunt even if you dont kill anything...but noone wants to constantly throw money away on a hunting experience if they know the chance of success is astronomically small.

[masman]

Originally posted by JohninVT
I thought that baiting was legal in VT so long as the bait was a locally occuring food source. Salt licks are prohibited but putting a bushel of apples near your tree stand that borders an apple orchard isn't.

your correct john also prohibited are those mollasses lolipops they make for deer.

[Survey Punk]

Doug

I am one emphatic SOB!

Ask my wife.

JB