Help, my L1A1 is shooting 4' high.

echap · November 20, 2004, 16:54

Just got it at a gunshow a couple of weeks ago and today was the first time to shoot it. It's a Imbel inch Reciever, with British inch Parts, most have the Enfield mark on them. Built by Century (I know bummer, but I only paid $350 for it with 2 like new Inch mags). The rear sight and front sight base have the same markings, kinda like this

/l\

so if that gives you any info. I think I read about Inch and metric sights doing this, ,but with the markings the same I have to assume they are the same sights.

Shoots good, ,just 4' high, (I did not have a tool to turn the front sight post) but can I raise the front sight post enough to get it in, or do I have the wrong sights on it? I assume that I can turn the Front sight post and raise it? I am a newb on FAL's but had fun running around 130 rds thru it anyway, jsut had to aim real low. The rifle is like new needs to be broken in as I had to run the gas system fully closed to get it to function.

Any other hints? I have been reading the archive files for two weeks now so I don't dumb questions so I hope that this is not one.

TIA,
Echap

**Stoney** · November 20, 2004, 17:54

raise the front sight

Bruce J · November 20, 2004, 20:29

First off, congrats on your choice of guns... It sounds like you've got a fine functioning rifle that just needs to be sighted in.

4 inches at 100 yds is no big deal, that's just a slight adjustment of the front sight. Make sure you know how to losen the set screw and the retighten it after each adjustment. Don't make the mistake of losening it, adjusting the front sight, and then think you ought to just leave it loose in case you need to adjust it after a few rounds. After a few rounds it will have worked loose and end up a tiny spec amoung many others on the ground and you'll never find it.. ask me how I know...

Also.. make sure your rear sight is onthe 100 yd mark. Note that it slides forward and rearward with distinctive clicks.

Some guru here may be able to tell you how many turns you need to unscrew the front sight to make a 4 inch adjustment, but me, I just crank it a "few"... in your case "some" and then give it a try. Pretty scientific ehh?

yovinny · November 20, 2004, 20:51

4' high ?? as in 48 inches ??

Gremper · November 20, 2004, 20:57

Actually 4" high at 100 yards is a pretty good Battle Zero. You will be close to dead on @ 200 yards and @ 4" low @ 250 yards. See http://www.handloads.com/calc/

echap · November 20, 2004, 22:23

Yes 48" to 60" high at 100. Looking at the front site, I don't think I have that much adjustment.

**W.E.G.** · November 20, 2004, 22:28

You need to move the sight .288" to move the point of
impact 48 inches at 100 yards.

Front or rear - either one will do.

Or a combination of the two - so that the relative shift in position tallies to .288" change.

**bykerhd** · November 21, 2004, 07:09

Somebody posted the amount of change for each complete turn in or out of your front sight. It was either 2" per half or per complete turn. Try turning it out one full turn to start. Don't forget to retighten the set screw in front or it will go bye-bye in a hurry.

echap · November 21, 2004, 09:07

Quote:

Originally posted by gary.jeter
You need to move the sight .288" to move the point of
impact 48 inches at 100 yards.

Front or rear - either one will do.

Or a combination of the two - so that the relative shift in position tallies to .288" change.

Thanks! that's exactly what I needed to know. One more question, How to change elevation on the rear sight? I have it set at rear, ,but am not sure how to lower it anymore.

Thanks,
Echap

Bruce J · November 21, 2004, 10:19

The rear sight only sides on the ramp, as long as it's all the way back, it's as low as it goes. I'm thinking you can probably get a little overf 1/4 inch adjustment out of the front sight. If not, then you may need to send it off for some haevier duty work with a FALsmith to see if they can solve the problem.

Court in Fl · November 21, 2004, 12:46

I have a nice L1A1 that was shooting real high after I built it,
(not 4 feet) , but maybe 2 feet.

I ended up drilling out the rear sight aperture and threading it and pluging it with a screw and grinding it flush.

Then drilled a NEW aperture about .185 lower than the old one.
This worked well.

Keep in mind the rear sight blade is HARD , you will need to anneal or temper it with heat to get it soft enough to drill and tap.

Also,
Measure the hight of the aperture with you dial calipers and see if Gunthings.com has one with a lower aperture.

Good luck with your new rifle.

Court in FL.

Glucker · November 21, 2004, 15:04

If your'e hitting 4" high at 100 yds, clean it, oil it, and you are ready to go.

ce · November 22, 2004, 12:26

One complete revolution of the front sight will change the point of impact 8 inches.

The broad arrow mark does indicate compatibility, so turn the front sight out 6 times and shoot it again.

Court in Fl · November 22, 2004, 13:14

One complete revolution of the front sight will change the point of impact 8 inches.

That sounds like a lot of movement for one rotation.
Are you sure that's for a INCH gun ?
They are threaded 10x40 not the 12x28 like a metric.

Court in FL.

ce · November 23, 2004, 08:52

Yeah, Court, it's pretty dramatic, but those are the specs, as per Ted and Kevin.
It would also be borne out by his being so far off in the first place.

I bet someone was just spinning that sucker up and down trying to find the paper, and ended up with the sight screwed all the way in.

Six revolutions will certainly end up with the sight very high, but a normal position for zero is with 3 or 4 threads showing beneath the sight blade.

Court in Fl · November 23, 2004, 09:32

It MAY be 8 centimeters.

Court in FL.

yovinny · November 23, 2004, 09:59

That would be handy to know as a reference, I've never really paid attention to it before.
I'll have to range test it the next time I drag a fal out.
I always use the very scientific method of "guesstimate" myself

Math wise, using FS pitches of 40 & 28 TPI and figuring a 22" sight radius.
One full revolution or thread, should be very close to 4" for the Inch and 6" for the metric.

NZ L1A1 Collector · November 23, 2004, 11:56

For a standard 21 inch barrelled L1A1 rifle the following applies:-

To move the Mean Point of Impact (MPI) up one HALF turn of the foresight will raise or lower the MPI about 2 in. at 100 yards. OR 1/2 in. at 25 yards.

To move the MPI left or right, one half turn will move the MPI about 2 in. at 100 yards. OR 1/2 in. at 25 yards.

At 100 yards the MPI should be 5 inches above the point of aim.

At 25 yards the MPI should be 1/2 in. above the point of aim.

L1A1/FAL Iron sights are zeroed for 200 yards. This is why the lowest setting on the ramp is " 2 " (200 yards/meters).

If you don't believe me get yourself a copy of the Australian Army manual for the L1A1 rifle from TAPCO, all the info is contained in the manual.

PS: the standard setting height for the foresight is 0.465 in., from the top of the gas block to the highest point on the foresight.

ce · November 23, 2004, 12:04

Well, she said it FELT like 8 inches.
Maybe it was only 4, but now I sure know how to use it.

Thanks, Kevin.

echap · November 23, 2004, 13:47

Thanks guys. I adjusted it up .288" and will shoot it again. I'll bring my tools along to fine tune it, and am confident that I'll get it correct.

The original setting was at about .176" above the gas block (I measured it with my reloading calipers), so when I added .288" to it (per gary.jeter) gives me .464" as NZ L1A1 Collector states is the standard sight setting. I guess someone was goofing around with it before I got it.

Man you guys are good. I can't wait to shoot this rifle again. Had a blast shooting it last weekend.

When I bought this rifle for $350 at a gunshow, the guy took of pretty quickly after he had the cash, and that had me a liittle worried. But, after reading here for many hours, and working on the rifle. I am sure that it did not function for him at all, and in his mind he was dumping a POS rifle. The Gas port was completely open and the recoil spring was full of cosmoline. There were not even any brass marks on the side of the receiver. The bolt carrier did not have any wear on it.

Well, I ran around 140 Rds thru it on Saturday and intend on running many more thru it. I really like these rifles and this site.

Thanks again,
Eric

MonV · November 23, 2004, 13:51

If you find you cannot raise the front sights high enough, you could always change the rear sight with a metric one, metric rear sights have a lower aperture.

mojo_matic · November 23, 2004, 16:10

Damn...I seem to be beating the hell out of the Indian rear sight suggestions.

If your front sight post will not raise any higher, I would recommend an Indian or Izzy rear sight. They are shorter than Inch, but not nearly as low as metric. The Indian sight would look more "natural" on an inch rifle than Izzy since design is very similar.

I believe that a metric rear sight would be too drastic....instead of hitting 4' too high, you will end up beating the dirt.

Congratulations on your first FAL! Wish my first FAL (also a Century Inch) proved to be as reliable as yours did! Sounds like you have a nice running start!

racer766 · November 24, 2004, 15:59

Quote:

Originally posted by echap

Man you guys are good. I can't wait to shoot this rifle again. Had a blast shooting it last weekend.

Par for the course for this place. I've never seen a tech question unanswered in the 3 years I've been reading the 'Files.

November 20, 2004, 16:54	#1
echap Registered FALaholic #: 9645 Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 16	Help, my L1A1 is shooting 4' high. Just got it at a gunshow a couple of weeks ago and today was the first time to shoot it. It's a Imbel inch Reciever, with British inch Parts, most have the Enfield mark on them. Built by Century (I know bummer, but I only paid $350 for it with 2 like new Inch mags). The rear sight and front sight base have the same markings, kinda like this /l\ so if that gives you any info. I think I read about Inch and metric sights doing this, ,but with the markings the same I have to assume they are the same sights. Shoots good, ,just 4' high, (I did not have a tool to turn the front sight post) but can I raise the front sight post enough to get it in, or do I have the wrong sights on it? I assume that I can turn the Front sight post and raise it? I am a newb on FAL's but had fun running around 130 rds thru it anyway, jsut had to aim real low. The rifle is like new needs to be broken in as I had to run the gas system fully closed to get it to function. Any other hints? I have been reading the archive files for two weeks now so I don't dumb questions so I hope that this is not one. TIA, Echap

November 20, 2004, 17:54	#2
Stoney Former 0311 Contributor Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 1205 Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Brush Prairie, WA USA Posts: 3,324	raise the front sight __________________ Stoney Bureaucracy,, taking the fun out of life one stupid rule at a time,,,, Old Viking saying: Never be more then two steps from your weapon Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you. Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading. - Thomas Jefferson

November 20, 2004, 20:29	#3
Bruce J Registered FALaholic #: 102 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Linwood Kansas USA Posts: 781	First off, congrats on your choice of guns... It sounds like you've got a fine functioning rifle that just needs to be sighted in. 4 inches at 100 yds is no big deal, that's just a slight adjustment of the front sight. Make sure you know how to losen the set screw and the retighten it after each adjustment. Don't make the mistake of losening it, adjusting the front sight, and then think you ought to just leave it loose in case you need to adjust it after a few rounds. After a few rounds it will have worked loose and end up a tiny spec amoung many others on the ground and you'll never find it.. ask me how I know... Also.. make sure your rear sight is onthe 100 yd mark. Note that it slides forward and rearward with distinctive clicks. Some guru here may be able to tell you how many turns you need to unscrew the front sight to make a 4 inch adjustment, but me, I just crank it a "few"... in your case "some" and then give it a try. Pretty scientific ehh? __________________ Bruce J Kansas City BHJohnson.HST@Gmail.com "Although I can accept talking scarecrows, lions and great wizards in emerald cities, I find it hard to believe there is no paperwork involved when your house lands on a witch."

November 20, 2004, 20:57	#5
Gremper Registered FALaholic #: 8848 Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Las Vegas NV Posts: 1,024	Actually 4" high at 100 yards is a pretty good Battle Zero. You will be close to dead on @ 200 yards and @ 4" low @ 250 yards. See http://www.handloads.com/calc/ __________________ Four boxes guarantee our freedom: They are the Soap Box; the Ballot Box; the Jury Box; and the Cartridge Box. To be Born Free is Luck. To Live Free is a Privilege. To Die Free is a Responsibility British by birth, American by choice! ROMAD, USAF Msgt (ret), Life Member NRA . Member AGA, GOA, LEAA, JPFO. CCRKBA

November 20, 2004, 22:28	#7
W.E.G. Administrator Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 1211 Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Virginia Posts: 31,052	You need to move the sight .288" to move the point of impact 48 inches at 100 yards. Front or rear - either one will do. Or a combination of the two - so that the relative shift in position tallies to .288" change. __________________ . . . Ask me about the Mason-Dixon FAL Collectors Association.

November 20, 2004, 20:51	#4
yovinny Registered FALaholic #: 7679 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NY transplant to central Illinois, Now in Kentucky Posts: 3,411	4' high ?? as in 48 inches ??

November 20, 2004, 22:23	#6
echap Registered FALaholic #: 9645 Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 16	Yes 48" to 60" high at 100. Looking at the front site, I don't think I have that much adjustment.

November 21, 2004, 07:09	#8
bykerhd Dinosaur Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 2798 Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Burlington Vermont area Posts: 13,262	Somebody posted the amount of change for each complete turn in or out of your front sight. It was either 2" per half or per complete turn. Try turning it out one full turn to start. Don't forget to retighten the set screw in front or it will go bye-bye in a hurry.

November 21, 2004, 10:19	#10
Bruce J Registered FALaholic #: 102 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Linwood Kansas USA Posts: 781	The rear sight only sides on the ramp, as long as it's all the way back, it's as low as it goes. I'm thinking you can probably get a little overf 1/4 inch adjustment out of the front sight. If not, then you may need to send it off for some haevier duty work with a FALsmith to see if they can solve the problem. __________________ Bruce J Kansas City BHJohnson.HST@Gmail.com "Although I can accept talking scarecrows, lions and great wizards in emerald cities, I find it hard to believe there is no paperwork involved when your house lands on a witch."

November 21, 2004, 12:46	#11
Court in Fl Curio & Relic FALaholic #: 5046 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: South Florida Posts: 3,150	I have a nice L1A1 that was shooting real high after I built it, (not 4 feet) , but maybe 2 feet. I ended up drilling out the rear sight aperture and threading it and pluging it with a screw and grinding it flush. Then drilled a NEW aperture about .185 lower than the old one. This worked well. Keep in mind the rear sight blade is HARD , you will need to anneal or temper it with heat to get it soft enough to drill and tap. Also, Measure the hight of the aperture with you dial calipers and see if Gunthings.com has one with a lower aperture. Good luck with your new rifle. Court in FL.

November 21, 2004, 15:04	#12
Glucker Registered FALaholic #: 12384 Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Houston Posts: 1,770	If your'e hitting 4" high at 100 yds, clean it, oil it, and you are ready to go. __________________ Glucker

November 22, 2004, 12:26	#13
ce Registered FALaholic #: 373 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,903	One complete revolution of the front sight will change the point of impact 8 inches. The broad arrow mark does indicate compatibility, so turn the front sight out 6 times and shoot it again.

November 22, 2004, 13:14	#14
Court in Fl Curio & Relic FALaholic #: 5046 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: South Florida Posts: 3,150	One complete revolution of the front sight will change the point of impact 8 inches. That sounds like a lot of movement for one rotation. Are you sure that's for a INCH gun ? They are threaded 10x40 not the 12x28 like a metric. Court in FL.

November 23, 2004, 08:52	#15
ce Registered FALaholic #: 373 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,903	Yeah, Court, it's pretty dramatic, but those are the specs, as per Ted and Kevin. It would also be borne out by his being so far off in the first place. I bet someone was just spinning that sucker up and down trying to find the paper, and ended up with the sight screwed all the way in. Six revolutions will certainly end up with the sight very high, but a normal position for zero is with 3 or 4 threads showing beneath the sight blade.

November 23, 2004, 09:32	#16
Court in Fl Curio & Relic FALaholic #: 5046 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: South Florida Posts: 3,150	It MAY be 8 centimeters. Court in FL.

November 23, 2004, 09:59	#17
yovinny Registered FALaholic #: 7679 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NY transplant to central Illinois, Now in Kentucky Posts: 3,411	That would be handy to know as a reference, I've never really paid attention to it before. I'll have to range test it the next time I drag a fal out. I always use the very scientific method of "guesstimate" myself Math wise, using FS pitches of 40 & 28 TPI and figuring a 22" sight radius. One full revolution or thread, should be very close to 4" for the Inch and 6" for the metric.

November 23, 2004, 11:56	#18
NZ L1A1 Collector Moderator & Collectaholic FALaholic #: 45 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: New Zealand Posts: 2,882	For a standard 21 inch barrelled L1A1 rifle the following applies:- To move the Mean Point of Impact (MPI) up one HALF turn of the foresight will raise or lower the MPI about 2 in. at 100 yards. OR 1/2 in. at 25 yards. To move the MPI left or right, one half turn will move the MPI about 2 in. at 100 yards. OR 1/2 in. at 25 yards. At 100 yards the MPI should be 5 inches above the point of aim. At 25 yards the MPI should be 1/2 in. above the point of aim. L1A1/FAL Iron sights are zeroed for 200 yards. This is why the lowest setting on the ramp is " 2 " (200 yards/meters). If you don't believe me get yourself a copy of the Australian Army manual for the L1A1 rifle from TAPCO, all the info is contained in the manual. PS: the standard setting height for the foresight is 0.465 in., from the top of the gas block to the highest point on the foresight. __________________ Rifle, 7.62 mm, L1A1 Collector & Researcher. NEW ZEALAND

November 23, 2004, 12:04	#19
ce Registered FALaholic #: 373 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,903	Well, she said it FELT like 8 inches. Maybe it was only 4, but now I sure know how to use it. Thanks, Kevin.

November 23, 2004, 13:47	#20
echap Registered FALaholic #: 9645 Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 16	Thanks guys. I adjusted it up .288" and will shoot it again. I'll bring my tools along to fine tune it, and am confident that I'll get it correct. The original setting was at about .176" above the gas block (I measured it with my reloading calipers), so when I added .288" to it (per gary.jeter) gives me .464" as NZ L1A1 Collector states is the standard sight setting. I guess someone was goofing around with it before I got it. Man you guys are good. I can't wait to shoot this rifle again. Had a blast shooting it last weekend. When I bought this rifle for $350 at a gunshow, the guy took of pretty quickly after he had the cash, and that had me a liittle worried. But, after reading here for many hours, and working on the rifle. I am sure that it did not function for him at all, and in his mind he was dumping a POS rifle. The Gas port was completely open and the recoil spring was full of cosmoline. There were not even any brass marks on the side of the receiver. The bolt carrier did not have any wear on it. Well, I ran around 140 Rds thru it on Saturday and intend on running many more thru it. I really like these rifles and this site. Thanks again, Eric

November 23, 2004, 13:51	#21
MonV Registered FALaholic #: 5524 Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 204	L1A1 SHOOTS 4FT HIGH If you find you cannot raise the front sights high enough, you could always change the rear sight with a metric one, metric rear sights have a lower aperture.

November 23, 2004, 16:10	#22
mojo_matic banned - trolling marketplace FALaholic #: 12363 Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New Carlisle, IN Posts: 3,257	Damn...I seem to be beating the hell out of the Indian rear sight suggestions. If your front sight post will not raise any higher, I would recommend an Indian or Izzy rear sight. They are shorter than Inch, but not nearly as low as metric. The Indian sight would look more "natural" on an inch rifle than Izzy since design is very similar. I believe that a metric rear sight would be too drastic....instead of hitting 4' too high, you will end up beating the dirt. Congratulations on your first FAL! Wish my first FAL (also a Century Inch) proved to be as reliable as yours did! Sounds like you have a nice running start!

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