Need recommendation on milling machine.

**kev** · October 06, 2004, 18:04

I really don't know much about milling machines, but always wanted something to play with and learn on. I have all sorts of room, so that's not a problem. General projects like magazine mods and such, but I would probably want to be able to eventually tackle a receiver from scratch type of project. Certainly aluminum AR forgings and possibly even the FAL steel castings. Maybe not good enough to produce a functional FAL, but it would be nice to at least finish up a few for dummies or perhaps pistol/.22 conversions.

Anyway, the neighborhood Harbor Freight has this table-top mill on sale for $700, about $1/lb. Should I jump on this one?

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42827

BRM308 · October 06, 2004, 19:42

They're not bad. I have one. If at all possible get a knee mill(where the table rides up and down and not the head) like a Bridgeport or a M/D with a square, dovetailed column. Having to reset the head everytime it's raised up or down is a real pain in the ass.
If you do decide on that one, take it apart and clean the mating surfaces real well. Aparently the Chinese think that sand is a packing material.

vmtz · October 06, 2004, 22:11

I have one of the Harbor Freight mini-mills. I am just learning and at this time it suits my needs. Make sure you get one that takes R-8 tools. They are cheaper. At some point I will out grow it, but it is a good machine to start on. Most important rule is speeds and feeds.

Vince

yovinny · October 06, 2004, 22:57

Hey Kev
That might be OK for doing small, light jobs, but you'd probably be better off with a better quality, full size, machine. The old story, you get what you pay for, hold's true here as with any shop machine. Good deals can be had on used machines, but it's important to have someone that know's them look it over first. Used machines can also be found with set-up and tooling also included in the price, that in itself can save some serious hidden costs for a first time buyer. Personally, I havent been too thrilled with any of the made in China shop machines I've examined, although there much better then they were just a few years ago. There electric motors are still terrible and usually need to be replaced and there castings and tolerance's are pretty sloppy. Funny thing is that there biggest market is export to the USA, but they import older, used equipment from here to produce the stuff.
Cheers, YOOO VINNY

Rule .308 · October 06, 2004, 23:50

I have to agree with BRM308, I bought a larger mill from Harbor Freight and it has no knee. I did not think it would be much of an issue at first but I can attest to the fact that it is a royal pain in the butt to have to dial it in everytime I raise or lower the head. The way the head is configured on the mini mill you are looking at is such that it may not be as much of an issue, but I would spend more money and get more mill if I had it to do all over again.

vmtz · October 07, 2004, 07:13

I agree, if you know what you are doing with a mill the mini will not suit your needs. However, at 350 to learn on is cheaper then a full size one.

Vince

**idsubgun** · October 07, 2004, 07:43

kev,

This will make a great mill for learning as Vince has stated, but there will come a time when you'll want more.
If you're serious about this, I would look at some of the machines around $2000. They are heavier, more solid, and that is a major factor to doing any mill work. Stay away from the movable heads if possible, and go with a movable knee. This not only makes the head stouter, but eliminates having to re-tram your head everytime your move it up or down.
R-8 collets are a must! Don't get anything else! These collets are industry standard and can stay with you as you improve your equipment.

Now, If you have the space and are REALLY serious, keep an eye out in your local paper and see if you can find a used mill. A full sized one. I've seen them for as little as the more expensive table top models and you get a whole lot more bang for your buck.

But, all in all, I think you'll be much happier with a table top mill in the $1500-$2000 range. I hate to see you spend good money on the one you mentioned, only to find out later you wanted more.

JohninVT · October 07, 2004, 07:45

Look at Grizzly too. I have a lathe/mill combo that works great for small projects. With a rotary table, there isn't much you can't do between the lathe and mill.

skuld · October 07, 2004, 11:58

Try and find a used Brideport.

My dad and I bought a medium sized one from a high school that was no longer offering shop classes. Think we paid $1200 for it. Then about six months later at an auction we got a full sized Bridgeport for $1300. It's freakin' huge, 8 tall or so, at least it seems that big. The body on ours was made in the 40s or 50s, the head was built in the 70s or 80s. Good, solid, American-made machine.

Ask around at machine shops, see who buys their old machinery, maybe that guy can get you a good deal on something. We get a lot of our stuff from Lockheed at their auctions, so also look for a largish manufacturer in your area.

-skuld

(btw, and not to hijack the thread, but if anyone needs any cutters, let me know.)

JohninVT · October 07, 2004, 13:10

I could have had either of my father's Bridgeports for nothing when he retired. The reason I didn't grab one is space and electricity. If you have the room and don't plan on ever moving it, a used Bridgeport is the way to go. They also use a lot of juice.

frankxtc · October 07, 2004, 16:22

I'm with the used bridgeport guys here.
Depending on what big city you might live near, if there is much heavy
manfacturing there will be a bunch of used b-ports for sale at any
given time.
When I decided to get a mill, I went to look at every Bridgeport that came up for sale, not
intending to buy any at that time.
I just wanted to learn about condition of equipment and prices.
That way when, after about a year (not much machine work around here), I found
a Bridgeport "J" head that was not worn out, had a good table and no signs of misuse, I bought it.
I have used it for many more things than gunsmithing too...

Mad Bodhi · October 07, 2004, 17:30

Grizzly Industrial G8689 $495.00 + $58.00 shipping
Hard to beat for something to learn on.

**kev** · October 07, 2004, 18:24

Thanks for all the imput guys; think I'll pass on this one. For a small mill, it seems pretty stout, but since I don't know much about the things I guess I really wouldn't know where to start w/tooling, etc. I'm not hot in the market for machine tools right now and other bigger things are pressing anyway. Just tripping over a little 'impulse' type of thing here. Walked into Harbor yesterday and bought an 8000# winch I didn't need and figured I probably didn't need this either, so I was thinking about it.

I've got a gunsmith buddy with a Bridgeport I can use any time I need and that's probably where I should be spending my time,....just watching and learning. It's just not convenient to go there very often and there are other projects always going on around there. Still, time isn't a factor. Neither is room,....I've got a 60x80 shop with plenty or ROOM! Don't have three phase tho, and that's something I've been avoiding.

Still, I'm not far from Chicago and Gary IN, and work from Toledo and Detroit, so I'm probably in the world's greatest area for used US equipment. When I get searching seriously, I'll check out what's available around here. Thanks again all.

Rhineland1 · October 07, 2004, 18:58

Go with a R8 knee mill for beginers. Look here for used equipment www.machinetools.com.

bullseye · October 08, 2004, 00:33

If you can't find a used Bridgeport or copy or just don't want the hassle because of size and possible 3 phase. I would get the larger harbor frieght mill when it goes on sale I think it was about 600 a couple of months back. P.S. If you do get a three phase set up I bought a great rotary phase convertor from a company out of arizona and was treated real well(recieved it 4 days after payment. Fan housing was smashed in shipping. They sent me a new one w/ fan I got it in 2 days even after I told the guy I would just bang it out myself.) It was only $180 for a 3hp with a GE idler motor (US made). Email me if interested I would have to find there info

Quarterbore · October 08, 2004, 07:47

Quote:

Originally posted by bullseye
Email me if interested I would have to find there info [/B]

I would be interested in the info as well... can you post contact info!

Regarding mills, you really need to decide what you want to do... If you are only planning to do small projects like 1911, FAL, or AR receivers one of the small mills will work fine... If you want to take plate steel and make a 1919a4 sideplate you may do well to get a bigger milling machine.

I have an old Round Ram Bridgeport with an M-Head and a power feed table. It used the MT-2 Collets but that has not been a problem as I managed to get collets, drill chuck, boring head, and MT-2 Drills and reamers... My only problem is I have bought all the tooling and have yet to get the 3-phase power running yet

My Bridgeport weighs about 1500-2000 pounds and it is small for a Bridgeport! Now, I do have a collection of Bridgeport manuals that I put together on CD that I sell if you are interested. I put this together as I had a bitch of a time finding the information and it may help you understand the differences between the various "affordable" bridgeport mills, heads, speeds, tables, collets, etc... Here is a link http://quarterbore-inc.com/bridgeportmillcd.htm

**idsubgun** · October 08, 2004, 07:59

3-phase power:

I've ran my mill (3 HP motor) on a static phase converter for nearly 12 years. A static converter is all that is needed. You don't need a rotary converter for home use.

The differences are:

Static - you lose 1/3 of your horsepower (no biggie) and when the mill is turned on, it ramps up to speed/RPM's (a couple of seconds).

Rotary - you keep all your horsepower and you get instant speed (RPM's).

One thing to remember when ordering a phase converter, no matter which type, is to buy more then your motor is rated for. My motor is 3 HP and I bought the heavy duty 5 HP static converter. This way you don't tax the system.
BTW, you'll never notice the HP loss with a static converter. I've ran jobs on my mill that required heavy cutting and it works fine.

darkknight9 · October 08, 2004, 08:13

Where does a guy go to learn how to use one of these things?

frankxtc · October 08, 2004, 11:17

I learned alot from videos from Rudy. He has done it all
and is good at teaching and communicating.

http://www.bay-com.com/browse.cfm?catID=5

**idsubgun** · October 08, 2004, 14:30

Quote:

Originally posted by darkknight9
Where does a guy go to learn how to use one of these things?

See if a local college has a Vo-Tech program. Sometimes they have short courses at night for the hobbiest.
Or, call around to some local machine shops and ask if they know of any night courses around your area.
We had one here, and before I decided to go to the full 2 year program, I went to a night course for about 6 weeks, IIRC. It was 2 times a week, I think (it's been many, many years ago).

Clark · October 08, 2004, 21:10

My brother got an old minty Clausing 8520 mill for home gunsmithing, and he knew how to use it, because he worked for years a mill operator.

Three years ago, at age 50, I got an old Rockwell Rockwell 21-100 mill for home gunsmithing, and started learning how to use it.
Mills are much easier than lathes for me.
Making cuts on a mill reminds me of mowing the lawn, and then mowing it again, a little shorter each time.

October 06, 2004, 18:04	#1
kev Curio & Relic Contributor FALaholic #: 71 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Indiana and various others Posts: 3,782	Need recommendation on milling machine. I really don't know much about milling machines, but always wanted something to play with and learn on. I have all sorts of room, so that's not a problem. General projects like magazine mods and such, but I would probably want to be able to eventually tackle a receiver from scratch type of project. Certainly aluminum AR forgings and possibly even the FAL steel castings. Maybe not good enough to produce a functional FAL, but it would be nice to at least finish up a few for dummies or perhaps pistol/.22 conversions. Anyway, the neighborhood Harbor Freight has this table-top mill on sale for $700, about $1/lb. Should I jump on this one? http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42827 __________________ Gun control is not about guns; it's about control. RUE?

October 06, 2004, 23:50	#5
Rule .308 Registered FALaholic #: 51 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: fountain valley, ca Posts: 450	I have to agree with BRM308, I bought a larger mill from Harbor Freight and it has no knee. I did not think it would be much of an issue at first but I can attest to the fact that it is a royal pain in the butt to have to dial it in everytime I raise or lower the head. The way the head is configured on the mini mill you are looking at is such that it may not be as much of an issue, but I would spend more money and get more mill if I had it to do all over again. __________________ Rule .308

October 07, 2004, 11:58	#9
skuld Registered FALaholic #: 3998 Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Ft. Worth, TX Posts: 583	Try and find a used Brideport. My dad and I bought a medium sized one from a high school that was no longer offering shop classes. Think we paid $1200 for it. Then about six months later at an auction we got a full sized Bridgeport for $1300. It's freakin' huge, 8 tall or so, at least it seems that big. The body on ours was made in the 40s or 50s, the head was built in the 70s or 80s. Good, solid, American-made machine. Ask around at machine shops, see who buys their old machinery, maybe that guy can get you a good deal on something. We get a lot of our stuff from Lockheed at their auctions, so also look for a largish manufacturer in your area. -skuld (btw, and not to hijack the thread, but if anyone needs any cutters, let me know.) __________________ Han fired first.

October 07, 2004, 16:22	#11
frankxtc Registered FALaholic #: 10952 Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 57	b-port I'm with the used bridgeport guys here. Depending on what big city you might live near, if there is much heavy manfacturing there will be a bunch of used b-ports for sale at any given time. When I decided to get a mill, I went to look at every Bridgeport that came up for sale, not intending to buy any at that time. I just wanted to learn about condition of equipment and prices. That way when, after about a year (not much machine work around here), I found a Bridgeport "J" head that was not worn out, had a good table and no signs of misuse, I bought it. I have used it for many more things than gunsmithing too...

October 07, 2004, 17:30	#12
Mad Bodhi Registered FALaholic #: 15393 Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 44	Grizzly Industrial G8689 $495.00 + $58.00 shipping Hard to beat for something to learn on. __________________ When young men seek to be like you,when lazy men resent you,when powerful men look over their shoulder at you,when cowardly men plot behind your back,when corrupt men wish you were gone and evil men want you dead... only then will you have done your share-Unknown

October 06, 2004, 19:42	#2
BRM308 Registered FALaholic #: 32 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Batavia,IL. USA Posts: 786	They're not bad. I have one. If at all possible get a knee mill(where the table rides up and down and not the head) like a Bridgeport or a M/D with a square, dovetailed column. Having to reset the head everytime it's raised up or down is a real pain in the ass. If you do decide on that one, take it apart and clean the mating surfaces real well. Aparently the Chinese think that sand is a packing material.

October 06, 2004, 22:11	#3
vmtz FALaholic #: 1125 Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Here right now Posts: 17,641	I have one of the Harbor Freight mini-mills. I am just learning and at this time it suits my needs. Make sure you get one that takes R-8 tools. They are cheaper. At some point I will out grow it, but it is a good machine to start on. Most important rule is speeds and feeds. Vince

October 06, 2004, 22:57	#4
yovinny Registered FALaholic #: 7679 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NY transplant to central Illinois, Now in Kentucky Posts: 3,414	Hey Kev That might be OK for doing small, light jobs, but you'd probably be better off with a better quality, full size, machine. The old story, you get what you pay for, hold's true here as with any shop machine. Good deals can be had on used machines, but it's important to have someone that know's them look it over first. Used machines can also be found with set-up and tooling also included in the price, that in itself can save some serious hidden costs for a first time buyer. Personally, I havent been too thrilled with any of the made in China shop machines I've examined, although there much better then they were just a few years ago. There electric motors are still terrible and usually need to be replaced and there castings and tolerance's are pretty sloppy. Funny thing is that there biggest market is export to the USA, but they import older, used equipment from here to produce the stuff. Cheers, YOOO VINNY

October 07, 2004, 07:13	#6
vmtz FALaholic #: 1125 Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Here right now Posts: 17,641	I agree, if you know what you are doing with a mill the mini will not suit your needs. However, at 350 to learn on is cheaper then a full size one. Vince

October 07, 2004, 07:43	#7
idsubgun "Comfortably Numb" Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 3100 Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Soon to be Missouri Posts: 9,271	kev, This will make a great mill for learning as Vince has stated, but there will come a time when you'll want more. If you're serious about this, I would look at some of the machines around $2000. They are heavier, more solid, and that is a major factor to doing any mill work. Stay away from the movable heads if possible, and go with a movable knee. This not only makes the head stouter, but eliminates having to re-tram your head everytime your move it up or down. R-8 collets are a must! Don't get anything else! These collets are industry standard and can stay with you as you improve your equipment. Now, If you have the space and are REALLY serious, keep an eye out in your local paper and see if you can find a used mill. A full sized one. I've seen them for as little as the more expensive table top models and you get a whole lot more bang for your buck. But, all in all, I think you'll be much happier with a table top mill in the $1500-$2000 range. I hate to see you spend good money on the one you mentioned, only to find out later you wanted more.

October 07, 2004, 07:45	#8
JohninVT Registered FALaholic #: 5222 Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 689	Look at Grizzly too. I have a lathe/mill combo that works great for small projects. With a rotary table, there isn't much you can't do between the lathe and mill.

October 07, 2004, 13:10	#10
JohninVT Registered FALaholic #: 5222 Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 689	I could have had either of my father's Bridgeports for nothing when he retired. The reason I didn't grab one is space and electricity. If you have the room and don't plan on ever moving it, a used Bridgeport is the way to go. They also use a lot of juice.

October 07, 2004, 18:24	#13
kev Curio & Relic Contributor FALaholic #: 71 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Indiana and various others Posts: 3,782	Thanks for all the imput guys; think I'll pass on this one. For a small mill, it seems pretty stout, but since I don't know much about the things I guess I really wouldn't know where to start w/tooling, etc. I'm not hot in the market for machine tools right now and other bigger things are pressing anyway. Just tripping over a little 'impulse' type of thing here. Walked into Harbor yesterday and bought an 8000# winch I didn't need and figured I probably didn't need this either, so I was thinking about it. I've got a gunsmith buddy with a Bridgeport I can use any time I need and that's probably where I should be spending my time,....just watching and learning. It's just not convenient to go there very often and there are other projects always going on around there. Still, time isn't a factor. Neither is room,....I've got a 60x80 shop with plenty or ROOM! Don't have three phase tho, and that's something I've been avoiding. Still, I'm not far from Chicago and Gary IN, and work from Toledo and Detroit, so I'm probably in the world's greatest area for used US equipment. When I get searching seriously, I'll check out what's available around here. Thanks again all. __________________ Gun control is not about guns; it's about control. RUE?

October 07, 2004, 18:58	#14
Rhineland1 Registered FALaholic #: 2450 Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: dallas, Posts: 1,164	Go with a R8 knee mill for beginers. Look here for used equipment www.machinetools.com.

October 08, 2004, 00:33	#15
bullseye Registered FALaholic #: 11571 Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 88	If you can't find a used Bridgeport or copy or just don't want the hassle because of size and possible 3 phase. I would get the larger harbor frieght mill when it goes on sale I think it was about 600 a couple of months back. P.S. If you do get a three phase set up I bought a great rotary phase convertor from a company out of arizona and was treated real well(recieved it 4 days after payment. Fan housing was smashed in shipping. They sent me a new one w/ fan I got it in 2 days even after I told the guy I would just bang it out myself.) It was only $180 for a 3hp with a GE idler motor (US made). Email me if interested I would have to find there info

October 08, 2004, 07:59	#17
idsubgun "Comfortably Numb" Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 3100 Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Soon to be Missouri Posts: 9,271	3-phase power: I've ran my mill (3 HP motor) on a static phase converter for nearly 12 years. A static converter is all that is needed. You don't need a rotary converter for home use. The differences are: Static - you lose 1/3 of your horsepower (no biggie) and when the mill is turned on, it ramps up to speed/RPM's (a couple of seconds). Rotary - you keep all your horsepower and you get instant speed (RPM's). One thing to remember when ordering a phase converter, no matter which type, is to buy more then your motor is rated for. My motor is 3 HP and I bought the heavy duty 5 HP static converter. This way you don't tax the system. BTW, you'll never notice the HP loss with a static converter. I've ran jobs on my mill that required heavy cutting and it works fine.

October 08, 2004, 08:13	#18
darkknight9 Registered FALaholic #: 7459 Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,040	Where does a guy go to learn how to use one of these things? __________________ "Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est." Latin: "A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand." -Seneca, Letters to Lucilius ...in a divorce, it is easier to leave mad than to say, 'I just can make more money doing something else.' -DABTL

October 08, 2004, 11:17	#19
frankxtc Registered FALaholic #: 10952 Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 57	I learned alot from videos from Rudy. He has done it all and is good at teaching and communicating. http://www.bay-com.com/browse.cfm?catID=5

October 08, 2004, 21:10	#21
Clark Registered FALaholic #: 1213 Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 750	My brother got an old minty Clausing 8520 mill for home gunsmithing, and he knew how to use it, because he worked for years a mill operator. Three years ago, at age 50, I got an old Rockwell Rockwell 21-100 mill for home gunsmithing, and started learning how to use it. Mills are much easier than lathes for me. Making cuts on a mill reminds me of mowing the lawn, and then mowing it again, a little shorter each time. __________________ No technical content or wit in your rude post... no response from me....I'll give the last word to a turd.

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