ID of metric carriers. And pics of an FN sand cut carrier.

[Pistolwiz]

As you can see in the pic these have a "wasp waist" unlike any of the hundreds of other metric carriers I've had go through my hands. The chrome one has an "H" on the spine with a chevron proof pointing away from the "H". The minty looking one has absolutely no markings at all. Any help to ID these would be greatly appreciated!

James GPG

[Pistolwiz]

Also.......here are some pics of what I believe is an FN metric sand cut carrier.

oooooohs....and..... aaaaaaaaaws when I saw this one! No it is not for sale. Belongs to a friend.

[Pistolwiz]

And a shot from the top.........................For those of us with a serious parts addiction! (Yes- I can stop any time I want to!)

[Brian in MN]

"H" on the spine with a chevron proof pointing away from the "H".

That sounds Belgian. Can you post a pic of it? The Argentines also used a chevron looking deal, looks kinda like a Brit broad arrow gone wild.

[Brian in MN]

The sand cut carrier looks like the real deal. Mine came in a Belgian 50.00 kit built around a Lithgow receiver. I bought the rifle for the inch pattern receiver. Your buddy now has an excuse to buy a DSA type I receiver to get those interior sand cuts!

[Pistolwiz]

The one on the left with the eagle.... I have many come through my shop. The "wasp waist" carrier is the one on the right. Thanks for your help Brian!

[gunplumber]

the "wasp waist" looks like a different style of sand cutting that was also done on the Israeli FAL. Look on the underside of the rails, there should be a very shallow clearance cut here as well. Reduces friction surface against receiver rails - gives crud a place to go.

Whether the wasp waist is strictly for use with a forward assist or whether that was subsequent to cutting them for dirt clearance, I couldn't tell you.

[Pistolwiz]

Hi Mark! Thanks for your help too! Here's a pic of the underside of the one with the markings. Both carriers have this same cut parallel with the axis of the carrier. And they both have the clearance "tabs" at the front and near the end of the underside of the rails. The markings aren't Izzy. I thinka german like eagle would be a no-no in Izzy land. Hmmmm- The mystery deepens!

[Brian in MN]

The H markings are FN.

I have a model A butt with stock cartouche somewhat similar to your eagle. It came off a German border guard rifle. Seems unlikely that they were sand cut. Don't know, though. The rifles were sold in the middle east so who knows. The guy I bought my 50.00 kit gun with the sand cut carrier insisted that the kit came out of Quatar.

[elbo]

Sand Cuts appear complete.

[NZ L1A1 Collector]

The eagle is most likely German from a ex Police boarder guard rifle

[gunplumber]

I don't believe germany made bolt carriers for the G1. They would have been Belgium made. And I see no reason why they would proofmark something they didn't make. Let me check my prooffmark book later. Unfortunately, I can't post the pictures 'cause mindspring is on Day 6 of m7 website being down.

And I have A Nazi proofed Israeli .308 Mauser .. .. .

[Brian in MN]

Originally posted by gunplumber
I don't believe germany made bolt carriers for the G1. They would have been Belgium made. And I see no reason why they would proofmark something they didn't make. .. .

Good point. However, the carrier is Belgian proofed so the eagle is: 1) some kind of Belgian marking or 2) someone else proofed it or 3) the marking is something other than a proof. It could be some kind of ownership or inspection marking. Possibly it was applied when the sand cuts were added to a standard carrier. I think that option 1 is very unlikely.

I'm not saying that the eagle is German for certain but these are the folks who just a decade or two earlier were serial numbering screws in K-98s.

[Falcon]

Here is the BWB proof that is probably being referred to, I've seen several variations.

...and a link to the BWB...Bundesamt für Wehrtechnik und Beschaffung

[Pistolwiz]

Thanks Guys! That does it for all the excellent condition metric carriers I have. They all have the H and the BWB eagle. So it seems that they are FN made for the German army/ border guard. FN made and sold to the Germans.

But the sand cut ones don't have the eagle. And one has absolutely no markings at all. And these sand cuts are quite different from the type of sand cuts on both inch types and the original FN 50.00 type carrier in the pics above. The chromed one has the H stamp. So its an FN. OK. Still a mystery as far as what rifles (If ever) were these issued with. Or were they experimental? Bought as armory stock? Could these be sand cuts for middle east customers?

Hey Ted- Do these look familiar to you? Are these the type carriers in the rifles that the Saudi's used when you were operating with them?

Ah....nothing like a mystery until the light of knowledge exposes it as history!

[Brian in MN]

If I recall correctly Ted has said that they were using Brit L1A1s but my memory ain't what it should be.

Here is a pic of my German butt proof.

[EMDII]

The Saudi rifles we had were all Metric 50.00, assembled locally under FN supervision (fabricated in Herstal). There were a few small Brit contingents that had L1A1. We would G2G and dring bathtub gin!

[Pistolwiz]

Thanks Ted! Did the 50.00's you had have sand cuts like these? I've had a bunch of Izzies come through since this thread started last year. With and without Belgian proofs. I wonder if these sand cuts were on any other types made by FN.

BTW- I eneded up with that Belgian sand cut carrier above and auctioned it off here a few months ago. Went for around $130.00 IIRC. Very kewl part.

[EMDII]

Thread

[EMDII]

I'm going to have to look at some VERY old pics (1979/1980). Anyone do a closeup of that April 1982 SOF in which I appear? resolution?

[Mr pogo]

Originally posted by Gunpartsguy
Thanks Guys! That does it for all the excellent condition metric carriers I have. They all have the H and the BWB eagle. So it seems that they are FN made for the German army/ border guard. FN made and sold to the Germans.

But the sand cut ones don't have the eagle. And one has absolutely no markings at all. And these sand cuts are quite different from the type of sand cuts on both inch types and the original FN 50.00 type carrier in the pics above. The chromed one has the H stamp. So its an FN. OK. Still a mystery as far as what rifles (If ever) were these issued with. Or were they experimental? Bought as armory stock? Could these be sand cuts for middle east customers?

Hey Ted- Do these look familiar to you? Are these the type carriers in the rifles that the Saudi's used when you were operating with them?

Ah....nothing like a mystery until the light of knowledge exposes it as history!

Geez, is this the record for untimely replies Ted?

A little more info as this thread started while I was away

The chrome carrier was more than likely done by Hesse, no OEMs chromed that part and Hesse chromed a bunch of Izzy parts.

There is a difference between the German eagle and the BWB eagle, the BWB mark is usually for stuff exported out of Germany. The pics of actual marks in this thread do not show the BWB mark, except for gpg's pic of top of two carriers. I dont recall seeing the BWB on the Turkish sourced G1s but who knows.
If I am following the thread correctly then the "Izzy" bolt carriers sound like repros if they have eagle marks or the mark is misinterpreted. FN made all the bolts and carriers for Israel and never has had an eagle proofmark.

*edit* gpg's pic of top of carriers finally loaded after I posted this

[Pistolwiz]

All my chrome parts are chromed by me (my contractor anyway).

From what I learned the BWB eagle was on German border guard guns. Correct?

Yeah, the weird one here is the Izzy type carrier with the BWB eagle. A freak?

Sold it a long time ago. Still a mystery though!