Winchester Model 97 as good all around shotgun?

[WJ-Polish Guy]

I become troubled lately with shotguns, but I do not know much bout them.

Help me understand fascination with Winchester model 97. History aside, I`m thinking of replica only. Is it functional shotgun by today standards?

Is action particulary smooth and well working? How the action compare to the more modern designs?

I never carry nothing with round in chamber, so lack of manual or internal safety doesn`t scare me at all.

[yovinny]

Thats not really a fair question WJ. The fascination with the 97 cant be seperated from it's history. Any more than it could be with the 1911, Tompson, BAR, Garand, FAL or a large host of others.
Mechanically, it's not a smooth action, kind of clunky actually and not without it's own quirks. Yet it's a John Browning design and an all STEEL gun. It's heavy and not very safe by todays standards, yet it's done it's job for over 100 years and probably will 100 years from now. Long after some "modern" design stops working or needs a damn O ring to work right.
If you've never handled one before, it will not be a good choice for you to start with.
If you'r just looking for a home protection shotgun, you'd probably be much better served by a Rem 870.
YOOO VINNY

[MM in NM]

They don't call them "Widow makers" for nothing. The only AD I've had in over 30 years was unloading a 97. I also have a buddy that blew a hole in the bottom of his duck boat and I've heard of other AD's. While no guns are toys these are a questionable over century old design that may have been fine at the turn of the 20th century but not the 21st.
The wooden stock also is a weak point, look at just about any original gun and you'll probably find it cracked at the wrist.

Neat factor: high
safety factor: low

Like the above guy says, If you really want a 97 go ahead and get one but beware how you handle it. It's clear that unless you have another reason to get a 97 (maybe you're a cowboy shooter) almost any modern design will give you much more gun for your money. I happen to be partial to Winchester 1300's myself.

[WJ-Polish Guy]

Hi Vinny! I alredy have 870, I want to add few shotguns to my collection.

Thing is all guns I own have to be fully "functional". I love old iron myself, over the polymers and aluminum, but it must pass time challenge. Some designs are timeless some just interesting, but absolete...

I was wondering what is bout 97 that people keep talking bout it.

[Cowbuyu]

The Winchester model 97 is very popular with the Cowboy Action Shooting (CAS) crowd, as it is allowed under the rules set forth by SASS. A few years ago you couldn't hardly give the things away, but supply and demand has driven the prices way up. There are a lot of them out there sending a lot of shot down range every weekend, and they hold up pretty good under the abuse they get. One big drawback in shooting a 97 is the way the bolt assembly slides back out of the receiver when you work the slide, and it has a couple of razor sharp edges that just happen to run right over the top of your hand, guess what......? keep band aids handy! The Chinese copies up to the 4th generation were pretty crude and had stiff actions, needed work to make them run right, the 4th gen guns are pretty good. However, Norinco had an import ban slapped on them by our gov. about a year ago and the prices are darn near what a real Winchester can be bought for now.
BTW, if you haven't ever gone to watch a Cowboy Action shoot, you owe it to yourself. It's just about the most fun you can have with your clothes on!

[yovinny]

Well the 97 is far from obsolete, unless you consider other guns like the 1911 or maybe the single action revolver obsolete. Like I said, it's been working for 100 years and will be 100 years from now.
There are safer designs in modern shotguns, also a lot poorer, less reliable, more prone to break and wear out designs too.
There are no AD's, it's human error or mechanical failure, the latter I've never seen in 25 years of using Win 97's.
Do the thin wrists on the stocks crack ? absolutely. It's something not likely with the clubs they put on pump guns today, but in a 100 years let me know. One of my shooters has been cracked since I got it 25 years ago, hasent slowed it down yet.
Some people drive Hyundi's some cadillacs.
Some people use 1911's, some shouldent, there much better off with a Glock.
Is a Glock a more modern safer design ? Probably for you'r average bear.
But this bear will stick with his 97's, 1911's, etc, etc.
When another shotgun comes out, designed by John Browning, all steel, with a 100 year track record, that you can adjust the headspace as it wears in, and can break down and fit in a scope case, and that you know it will ALWAYS go bang, let me know, I'll buy two.
YOOO VINNY

[Palerider]

Originally posted by Cowbuyu
the 4th gen guns are pretty good. However, Norinco had an import ban slapped on them

What 'generation' and manufacturer are the current offerings on the market, such as FAC's? I tried to get the name from their rep, but he never was able to name it, stating only that it is the name Norinco changed their name to.
http://www.gunsnstuff.net/016.asp

[Cowbuyu]

I believe those listed on the site are the 4th generation, due to the description stating that they have American walnut stocks (not sure how that works on a Chinese built gun) I would suggest calling and ask them about which series it is. I'm sure they are still Norinco's, but after the ban was imposed, they probably just made a new sign for the front of the building and changed the roll stamp for the receiver to get around it.............

[etp777]

Can't beat the intimidation factor of a '97 trench gun with bayonet attached.

Course, could probalby match it with a 520A or similar trench gun with bayonet attached.

[Rivaltm]

you may wanna acquaint yourself with it first.

my dad passed one down to me and the first time i loaded it i couldnt figure out how to unload it. Had an AD (into the ground, luckily) which scared the living s*** outta me.

I also can't seem to get teh mag tube back on right.

[yovinny]

Well, like I said there quirky. Be carefull with assembly/disassembly, while they'll melt like butter for someone who's experienced handling them, you can very quickly mess them up if you arent. It's easier for me to post this than explain it step by step. This is assembly from step 1, take the barrel w/ mag tube out and try it again, make sure the bolt and carrier are closed in battery. If you still have problems, LMK, it's possible the threads are already damaged or something else is wrong.
YOOO VINNY

[WJ-Polish Guy]

Originally posted by yovinny
... Probably for you'r average bear.
But this bear will stick with his 97's, 1911's, etc, etc.
When another shotgun comes out, designed by John Browning, all steel, with a 100 year track record, that you can adjust the headspace as it wears in, and can break down and fit in a scope case, and that you know it will ALWAYS go bang, let me know, I'll buy two.
YOOO VINNY

So should I get one? And which one, trench model or plain one?

[yovinny]

Trench guns are kool, if I was going to buy a Chinese made one, that's what I'd get. But know that the China guns are made like the early fixed barrel ones, not the later take downs and trench handguards prohibit take down with either model.
Why not find an original one ?? Orig riot and trench guns are priced out of sight but theres plenty around with long bird barrels that are take down guns, something the Chinese ones arent. You can find them for around the same price $300-400 and cut it down to a riot gun yourself and it wil say Winchester on it, not China That's what I did with my last one, got it 2 years ago for $325. cut it down and put an oversize bead on it. I like it, but I'm kind of partial to them, think I have eight 97's now. That's my last one in the pic above
Just my $.002
YOOO VINNY

[WJ-Polish Guy]

Vinny! You have some serious arsenal home. I`m jelous...

[yovinny]

OOPP that A word, is a bad word WJ. I like to call it a historical display of American weaponry. Trench and riot guns from both World Wars along with web gear, bayonets and other accoutrements. While some arent used because of there value, I more truly get to enjoy the ones like the one above. It and a few others get used for there intended purpose and are shot on a regular basis, thats truly what they were ment for.
YOOO VINNY

[gordo63]

I used to have a late model 97 police gun. To me, the gun was as rugged and as good handling as any police type shotgun ever made. The pistol grip on this model WAS NOT a weak point - it was beefed up just right and would be as stout as any wood (non reinforced) stock could have been.

I still own an old model (serial number dates it being produced around 1902) with a 28" modified. I still carry it dove hunting occasionally just for ole times sake. To me, the guns are very reliable and have a great "feel" to them. I have definitely bagged alot of game with a '97.

As far as ADs are concerned, I have had only one. That was several years ago (back when you could use lead shot for waterfowl) and I was goose hunting with a 34" barrelled 97. My gloved hands slipped off the hammer while letting it back down. It was pointed in a safe direction when it fired so it just poked another hole in the sky. I took a lot of ragging from the guys but I just smiled. I used to shoot old 1.5oz #4 lead loads in that ole gun and the ducks and geese never knew what hit 'em.

[Opie]

On the Norinco Trench guns if you put the hammer at half cock it locks up the slide and hammer until you ear the hammer all the way back. I've never had an AD with mine, but I don't put a round in the chamber until just before shooting. If you buy one WJ you'll like it; they are about 270-300 bucks now, and those are the Norinco copies.

[Noah Zark]

One thing of which to be aware is the tendency for the extractors to break on 97s. Some guns that I see have at least one of the extractors broken, and the owner doesn't realize it because the weapon generally still functions.

I had two 97s and sended up selling both because the bolt would cut my right hand as it slid out the back of the receiver, if my hand slipped forward on the stock under recoil.

My recommendation is an Ithaca 37. All steel, closed receiver that loads and ejects from the bottom, and the earlier models had no disconnector which allowed one to hold back the trigger and work the slide to fire the weapon rapidly.

JMO,

Noah

[Apache66]

Maybe try a Browing Auto-5 or Remington Model 11, I picked up an 11 for cheap, as it was very rough and had a junk hand made stock set, turns out it was made in 1914 and is a masterpiece of machining. A lot safer than the 1897.

[Dean P]

It is not the best of shotguns, whether for hunting or defense. The mod 12 a big improvement, beats the hell out of it.

[Palerider]

Originally posted by Noah Zark
earlier models had no disconnector

I thought all 37's had no disconnector.
Has anyone found one with a disconnector?

[Noah Zark]

Originally posted by Palerider

I thought all 37's had no disconnector.
Has anyone found one with a disconnector?

Some made in the 80s did. Then Ithaca went bankrupt (again) and when production of the 37 started back up in the 90s the disconnector was missing.

Noah