anyone use magsafe or other frangible ammo for carry/defense?

[bangophile]

i know it doesn't penetrate far but it does liberate all of it's energy and you'd think it would make a mess like a mini shotgun round. why isn't frangible ammo more popular for carry, and would it be a legal nightmare if you actually defended yourself with it?

[LV Hospice RN]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bangophile
i know it doesn't penetrate far but it does liberate all of it's energy and you'd think it would make a mess like a mini shotgun round. why isn't frangible ammo more popular for carry, and would it be a legal nightmare if you actually defended yourself with it? [/QUOTE

BANGOPHILE: Normally i carry a .40 S & W HK USP but there are times in the summer when i need to carry something smaller. I carry a AMT Backup .380 and i load it with Glaser Safety Slugs. At anything more than 10 yards or so the ammo is very inaccurate...however, as you stated it does totally dump the energy into the target (assuming you hit it).

From a legal standpoint i am sure it would be brought out in court the type of ammo you used. It would obviously look bad, however, i think the ole "i would rather be judged by twelve than carried by six" applies.

[Gremper]

One reason I carry Federal HydraShok ammo is that it was considered the most effective .45 ACP load by the FBI. Then they went to a less expensve load. Fragmenting rounds are probably very effective but only against soft-skinned targets. Any barrier, be it heavy clothing, auto glass, etc. will seriously degrade its effectiveness.

[ironman0311]

http://www.rbcd.net/

This stuff even makes a 9mm viable!

The .45 is DEVASTATING.

The 10 mm is FRIGHTENING! (penetrates1/4" S/S 20yds)

[familyman357]

bangophile,

You've already hit upon the major problems with using "frangible" ammunition for anything other than some possible very specialized situations:

It makes nice big holes in gelatin (that go a loooong way toward boosting sales), but the penetration of any significant component of the bullet is far too shallow or unreliable to reach / damage vital organs. And if your shot first has to pass through an arm, your assailant is wearing heavy clothing, or if your assailant is just plain fat, frangible ammunition performance is even worse.

Plus, in the shooting aftermath, you will be painted as some sick freak who had to go out of his way to buy expensive, hard-to-find super-killer / super-maiming ammo to shoot the poor bad guy with.

Now, if you live in an apartment or something, you can probably defend your frangible ammunition choice in court. But you're still stuck with using ammunition that may not help you survive long enough to get sued.

P.S. Frangible ammo manufacturers make a big to-do about "energy transfer" shock waves and stuff. At rifle velocities, this is a recognized phenomenon. At handgun velocities, this phenomenon pretty much doesn't exist.

Bottom line: there is no magic bullet.

[BTS]

Most of the advice I’ve seen on Ammolab.com is to avoid pre-fragmented/frangible rounds. It might limit your response options in less than ideal situations.

As an extreme, here is an excerpt from “Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness” by Urey Patrick of the FBI FTU available at: http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm .

Since the highest handgun velocities generally do not exceed 1400-1500 feet per second (fps) at the muzzle, reliable fragmentation could only be achieved by constructing a bullet so frangible as to eliminate any reasonable penetration. Unfortunately, such a bullet will break up too fast to penetrate to vital organs. The best example is the Glaser Safety Slug, a projectile designed to break up on impact and generate a large but shallow temporary cavity. Fackler, when asked to estimate the survival time of someone shot in the front mid-abdomen with a Glaser slug, responded, "About three days, and the cause of death would be peritonitis."

Don’t know any about the legal side of it.

[madecov]

While I don't carry it, I have a boat load of the MagSafe made by the late Joe Zambone. I used to sell the stuff at gunshows years ago.

Been wanting to do a test with it involving an old roast beef, and 15 yds just to see what the stuff is capable of. I have virtually every offering Magsafe ever made