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Old November 12, 2017, 16:37   #1
d_s
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SIG AMT

Just got this transferred, import marks state "Katsenes Cie. Santa Monica, CA" . This one retains bayonet lug and milled in flash hider and grenade seals, not a barrel sleave.
[IMG]Sig AMT xxz[/IMG]
[IMG]Sig AMT XYZ[/IMG]
[IMG]7305964_01_sig_amt_640[/IMG]
[IMG]thumbnail (3)[/IMG]
[IMG]thumbnail (2)[/IMG]
[IMG]thumbnail (1)[/IMG]
[IMG]thumbnail[/IMG]
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Old November 12, 2017, 17:48   #2
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Awesome and congrats. Katsenes imported literally a handful of SIG-AMTs if Im not mistaken. Well done sir
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Old November 12, 2017, 18:26   #3
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That is BEAUTIFUL! Congrats!
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Old November 12, 2017, 18:50   #4
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Originally Posted by VALMET View Post
Awesome and congrats. Katsenes imported literally a handful of SIG-AMTs if Im not mistaken. Well done sir
Do you have any info on who Katsenes was or is? I have absolutely no info on this importer
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Old November 12, 2017, 19:19   #5
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I had been checking your thread and was happy to see you found one. Very nice.........I am green with envy..
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Old November 12, 2017, 20:00   #6
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WOW!

Super nice, man. Congratulations.
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Old November 12, 2017, 22:15   #7
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I add my congratulations.

It's a beautiful rifle...

Forrest
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Old November 12, 2017, 22:34   #8
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OP- while not about the AMT specifically, this thread by member KIT sheds some light on the importer...

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94445

They seemed to import a few various guns in pretty small numbers in the late-1970s and early-80s.
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Old November 12, 2017, 23:23   #9
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You need to bring that gun to the OR FAL get together next June.

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Old November 13, 2017, 06:48   #10
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Not an everyday rifle, but now it's your everyday rifle.
Congrats, she's a beauty!
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Old November 13, 2017, 12:05   #11
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Originally Posted by old_spambo View Post
You need to bring that gun to the OR FAL get together next June.

Spambo
I know it, Ive yet to make it to one of these group shoots, will have to change that in 2018
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Old November 13, 2017, 19:56   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d_s View Post
Just got this transferred, import marks state "Katsenes Cie. Santa Monica, CA" . This one retains bayonet lug and milled in flash hider and grenade seals, not a barrel sleave.
[IMG]Sig AMT xxz[/IMG]
[IMG]Sig AMT XYZ[/IMG]
[IMG]7305964_01_sig_amt_640[/IMG]
[IMG]thumbnail (3)[/IMG]
[IMG]thumbnail (2)[/IMG]
[IMG]thumbnail (1)[/IMG]
[IMG]thumbnail[/IMG]
Absolutely gorgeous!!!
PM to you.

Tony
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Old November 13, 2017, 20:35   #13
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Welp, bad news guys, I was looking over this gun more closely and though its hard to tell, I believe this gun to be a kit gun/reweld, there are obvious welds around the circumfrance of the receiver near the front trunion, and the rear sight. I know that SIG did not build them this way and the seller did not disclose that this was a reweld so I have asked the seller to refund this in full in exchange for his gun back.

To me, this not being disclosed in the original ad is a major, MAJOR offense and deserves to be returned to the seller. What is the general opinion about this, am I being too particular or am I justified?
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Old November 13, 2017, 21:13   #14
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I will tell you that the majority of those guns that came in had front bbl sleeves and varied flashiders as opposed to the 510-4 military type that yours seems to have (bayo lug, etc). The vast majority of imports I've ever seen (Benet, Federal Ord, Devco, Mandall, Sigarms) didn't look like yours.

Definitely worth sending back, esp if it was misrepresented. That said, if the money was right and you like it, shoot it and use it. If it were mine, upon seeing the welds, I wouldn't even have taken possession of it. Good luck, keep us posted.
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Old November 13, 2017, 22:20   #15
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I didn't say anything earlier because I didn't want to come across as being negative but I think you gut is telling you the truth. Only a handful (a few but almost none) came in with military contoured barrels. That your has one was an immediate red flag to me. While the pictures are not clear enough to be sure, it does look like there is a weld line near the rear. Also, the finish on the receiver looks too dull to be original but, again, it could be the pictures.
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Old November 13, 2017, 23:29   #16
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Better pictures of the 'welds' would help here...

Keep in mind that DSA sold new 510-4 barrels for years and also had the rest of the 510-4 parts in kits. It would have been very easy to install one of the SIG 510-4 barrels on an AMT, also replacing the front sight base with an original one with the bayonet lug.

Just sayin'...

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Old November 14, 2017, 10:10   #17
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Originally Posted by Combloc View Post
Also, the finish on the receiver looks too dull to be original but, again, it could be the pictures.
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Old November 14, 2017, 12:21   #18
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I will add pics here in a bit, I couldn't see the welds until I got it in some sun light and I calmed down a bit to REALLY inspect it. And yes, it was completely misrepresented, I grilled the guy repeatedly regarding its authenticity and he was adamant that it was legit.
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Old November 14, 2017, 12:49   #19
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Here are the pics, the welds are fairly good and hard to see unless you are really, really looking, something I didnt pick up on while at the dealer doing the 4473
[IMG]IMG_9091[/IMG]
[IMG]IMG_9090[/IMG]
[IMG]IMG_9089[/IMG]
[IMG]IMG_9088[/IMG]
[IMG]IMG_9087[/IMG]
[IMG]IMG_9086[/IMG]
[IMG]IMG_9085[/IMG]
[IMG]IMG_9084[/IMG]
[IMG]IMG_9083[/IMG]
[IMG]IMG_9082[/IMG]
[IMG]IMG_9081[/IMG]
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Old November 14, 2017, 13:11   #20
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Update, spoke with the Seller, hes admits responsibility for the slip on the description and has committed to working out a price renegotiation. Moral of the story, NEVER break any of your own rules, I always said I would NEVER buy anything off of Armslist, I broke my own rule and now have to suck it up
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Old November 14, 2017, 19:13   #21
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Was it a reweld/rebuild of the original receiver???
The serial number is the range for a Katsenes.
Probably a re-barrel too (Estes Adams maybe)--- all that I have seen have had commercial barrels, except those marked SG510-4 over SIG AMT.

Tony

Last edited by AGG; November 14, 2017 at 19:26.
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Old November 15, 2017, 12:33   #22
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Originally Posted by AGG View Post
Was it a reweld/rebuild of the original receiver???
The serial number is the range for a Katsenes.
Probably a re-barrel too (Estes Adams maybe)--- all that I have seen have had commercial barrels, except those marked SG510-4 over SIG AMT.

Tony
I'd have no idea, im assuming this was a reweld of an original reciever and a rebarrel with an original AMT barrel given that its all a milled one piece barrel?
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Old November 15, 2017, 19:01   #23
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I'd have no idea, im assuming this was a reweld of an original reciever and a rebarrel with an original AMT barrel given that its all a milled one piece barrel?
I think it is a rewelded, original receiver and rebarrel, with a 510-4 barrel assembly (bayonet lug/barrel profile)!!!

Tony
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Old November 15, 2017, 19:25   #24
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Originally Posted by AGG View Post
I think it is a rewelded, original receiver and rebarrel, with a 510-4 barrel assembly (bayonet lug/barrel profile)!!!

Tony
Thanks Tony, by chance, do you know if swapping barrels is an easy affair given there is no gas port, I would think you could simply remove one barrel, and install it on another AMT?
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Old November 15, 2017, 19:26   #25
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Originally Posted by AGG View Post
I think it is a rewelded, original receiver and rebarrel, with a 510-4 barrel assembly (bayonet lug/barrel profile)!!!

Tony
Im also curious to hear opinions of the group, do rewelds significantly weaken the receiver, or are they pretty much on par with originals durability wise?
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Old November 16, 2017, 01:16   #26
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What are the markings on top of the trunnion?
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Old November 16, 2017, 09:57   #27
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Thanks Tony, by chance, do you know if swapping barrels is an easy affair given there is no gas port, I would think you could simply remove one barrel, and install it on another AMT?
All of the rebarrels that I have seen were done by Estes Adams--- a premier SIG AMT/PE57 builder!!!

Tony
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Old November 16, 2017, 09:59   #28
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Im also curious to hear opinions of the group, do rewelds significantly weaken the receiver, or are they pretty much on par with originals durability wise?
Depends upon who does the work and how it was done--- your last 2 pics seem suspect!!!

Tony
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Old November 16, 2017, 10:01   #29
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What are the markings on top of the trunnion?
Curious to know this as well!!!

Tony
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Old November 16, 2017, 12:18   #30
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Curious to know this as well!!!

Tony
It's

SIG-AMT
15189

By pure coincidence I came into contact with Estes Adams yesterday and I have put forth a bunch of questions about this to him, I will report back if I get anything useful
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Old November 16, 2017, 12:23   #31
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Estes Adams has confirmed that this gun was a "resurrected" SIG 510-4 kit
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Old November 16, 2017, 14:00   #32
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Originally Posted by d_s View Post
Estes Adams has confirmed that this gun was a "resurrected" SIG 510-4 kit
From a demilled, imported AMT?

All the 510-4 kits I have are Beretta made.
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Old November 16, 2017, 15:58   #33
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From a demilled, imported AMT?

All the 510-4 kits I have are Beretta made.
He didnt specify the make, I though 510-4's were specific to Chile?
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Old November 16, 2017, 16:51   #34
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"responsibility for the slip on the description..."

This jackass flat out lied to you. You said you grilled him about the authenticity and this fugger told you exactly what you wanted to hear.

I would have returned it and demanded every damned penny back including shipping both ways.

That's pretty piss-poor when you can't even trust another gun guy to do the right thing.
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Old November 16, 2017, 17:27   #35
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"responsibility for the slip on the description..."

This jackass flat out lied to you. You said you grilled him about the authenticity and this fugger told you exactly what you wanted to hear.

I would have returned it and demanded every damned penny back including shipping both ways.

That's pretty piss-poor when you can't even trust another gun guy to do the right thing.
I've been incredibly lucky over the years to have been fairly issue free over many transactions, but lately, and I dont know if its because there is a huge influx of new shooters and gun enthusiasts or what is going on, but alot of buyers and sellers I've dealt lately with have been everything from flakey, to down right incompetent, especially on gunbroker and my first and LAST transaction on Armslist, which up until lately, had been 100% issue free as far as dealings with other people. Make me wonder if I am the only one or if others have experienced the same thing
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Old November 16, 2017, 17:27   #36
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Does the trunnion #15189 match the number on the import marked lower and other parts?

Even though it's a reweld, it looks like a nice rifle. Seller appears to been trying to deceive.

One factor is how much you paid? If you paid less than $4k, you probably still did alright. The labor for a build like that will run $2500 alone.
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Old November 16, 2017, 17:30   #37
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Does the trunnion #15189 match the number on the import marked lower and other parts?

Even though it's a reweld, it looks like a nice rifle. Seller appears to been trying to deceive.

One factor is how much you paid? If you paid less than $4k, you probably still did alright. The labor for a build like that will run $2500 alone.
Yes, the numbers all match the trunion, as far as the final cost after the renegotiation, it all comes out to be a bit north of 4K, all in all, it will make a nice shooter
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Old November 16, 2017, 17:40   #38
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Yes, the numbers all match the trunnion, as far as the final cost after the renegotiation, it all comes out to be a bit north of 4K, all in all, it will make a nice shooter
I think you did all right in the end then. All I wanted was a shooter, but ended up finding an unfired AMT for $4500. It hurt to shoot it the first time, but I'm over that.

If you ever have a problem with a weld, you can always just have it TIG'd back up. No big deal.



I have a bunch of kits and repair sections. We'll be doing builds only because no one other than Estes will. We are working on the jigs to make it efficient and profitable.
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Old November 16, 2017, 19:00   #39
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He didnt specify the make, I though 510-4's were specific to Chile?
And Bolivia...

Forrest
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Old November 16, 2017, 21:40   #40
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Funny when I loaded the thread yesterday and the first pic came up I said "that don't look right" and well it turned out it wasn't.

Too bad we have the stupid laws we have as these rifles sell in gunshops in Switzerland for a couple hundred bucks.
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Old November 18, 2017, 16:25   #41
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I've been incredibly lucky over the years to have been fairly issue free over many transactions, but lately, and I dont know if its because there is a huge influx of new shooters and gun enthusiasts or what is going on, but alot of buyers and sellers I've dealt lately with have been everything from flakey, to down right incompetent, especially on gunbroker and my first and LAST transaction on Armslist, which up until lately, had been 100% issue free as far as dealings with other people. Make me wonder if I am the only one or if others have experienced the same thing
You Sir, are not the only one. I believe you're assessment is correct pertaining to the newer crop of folks dealing in firearms. Or maybe it's just Americans in general? As it's not just in dealing with firearms.....a guy can't seem to trust anyone anymore with just about anything. It's getting ruff out there.
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