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Old July 17, 2017, 14:08   #1
planemarty
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HK G-3 Research-H&R Museum Records access

Can anyone get me in contact with someone who could access these records? I'm trying to research a G-3 that supposedly was imported by H&R when they partnered with HK in the 60's. Supposedly, these are original HK rifles that were part of the H&R museum that were later sold. I know at least two exist. The two I have seen are identical to each other and have some odd quirks you don't normally see.

The selector is marked Safe, SA, FA, the Bolt carrier has thumb grooves to push it into battery, the receiver around the trunnion is beefed up like it is designed for the heavy bipod. All these features mirror features found on the T223 (HK 33 used by SEALS in Vietnam. A few other weird features are the cocking handle and bolt carrier connection. The bolt carrier has a section in the front with a smaller diameter that seats into the cocking handle. The furniture is always green with a slimline stock and both examples I have seen had a buttstock with a different color parkerization than the rest of the rifle.

I've seen paperwork on one of them and the maker is Heckler and Koch GMBH,Oberndorf-Neckar Germany.

The URL below shows some example photos:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/OcHJ6jlfblHGoxr83

Last edited by planemarty; July 17, 2017 at 14:49.
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Old July 17, 2017, 18:16   #2
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I've done some work for the HK museum - I've forwarded your request. No promises.
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Old July 18, 2017, 00:16   #3
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I don't have too much more on these G3's than you've already posted. Yes the collar on the G3 is for a heavy bipod but not the same style that most are use to seeing. The collar is permanent to the receiver and the bipod would latch just as it would on the T223. It has a single spring loaded catch that latches behind the wide part of the collar and the legs would fold forward toward the muzzle when closed. Since the collar is fixed the wide hand guard will not fit, hence the slim line hand guard.

I see the odd shaped cocking handle but what I think your referring to about the bolt carrier fitting into the cocking handle may be a very long cocking tube support. There is no way that the carrier tube would seat into the charging handle as if it were attached to it. All seems very odd for a full length G3 if that's the case. The photo is clear enough that you can't see a standard cocking tube support, cocking tube gap or the nub that is on the front end of a standard G3 bolt carrier tube.

Please update in your findings, hopefully gunplumbers contacts will come up with something. With the few remnants of the H&R / HK rifles that remain there is probably fewer people that have or know the information that your looking for.

I've tried without success to contact someone at the Institute of Military Technology (aka, Reed Knights collection/museum) about some information regarding the T223 rifle...never got any response. If anyone it would either be them, Dan Shea (Long Mountain Outfitters) or Ian McCollum (Forgotten Weapons) that might be able to provide some insight.

The other odd feature concerning the G3 in your link, no H&R or HK import markings? The T223 was marked.
I remember seeing those pics of the G3 a few years back, it was on Gunbroker for quite a while.

Here's a close up of the latch on the bipod that would fit that style collar. As with any of the HK bipods, the .223 has a shorter leg due to the length of the hand guard. If they actually made one with longer legs for the G3 I don't know, never seen one.

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Old July 19, 2017, 10:42   #4
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Does anyone have a link to this HK museum?
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Old July 19, 2017, 21:50   #5
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Surely, someone amoung us has a link to this HK museum? ANYBODY?
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Old Yesterday, 09:48   #6
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I didn't know that H&R ever had a museum?
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Old Yesterday, 11:18   #7
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There are original uncut M-14, M16A1's, T223's, and supposedly G-3's like this one that all came out of H&R before they shut down. I- like others want to track the history of this and info is extremely elusive on the subject. I believe these G-3's are 100% legit German HK YMMV when it comes to that. I know the examples I've seen didn't have any manufacture marks indicating conversion.
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Old Yesterday, 11:30   #8
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There are a few (very very few) semi G3s that were brought in at the end of 1959 for what I believe was a pilot series for civilian sales. I'd guess that Interarms is who imported those. One changed hands in the 1990s and I haven't heard about any of the others.
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Old Yesterday, 11:32   #9
planemarty
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[QUOTE=21HK;4452092]I don't have too much more on these G3's than you've already posted. Yes the collar on the G3 is for a heavy bipod but not the same style that most are use to seeing. The collar is permanent to the receiver and the bipod would latch just as it would on the T223. It has a single spring loaded catch that latches behind the wide part of the collar and the legs would fold forward toward the muzzle when closed. Since the collar is fixed the wide hand guard will not fit, hence the slim line hand guard.

I see the odd shaped cocking handle but what I think your referring to about the bolt carrier fitting into the cocking handle may be a very long cocking tube support. There is no way that the carrier tube would seat into the charging handle as if it were attached to it. All seems very odd for a full length G3 if that's the case. The photo is clear enough that you can't see a standard cocking tube support, cocking tube gap or the nub that is on the front end of a standard G3 bolt carrier tube.

Please update in your findings, hopefully gunplumbers contacts will come up with something. With the few remnants of the H&R / HK rifles that remain there is probably fewer people that have or know the information that your looking for.

I've tried without success to contact someone at the Institute of Military Technology (aka, Reed Knights collection/museum) about some information regarding the T223 rifle...never got any response. If anyone it would either be them, Dan Shea (Long Mountain Outfitters) or Ian McCollum (Forgotten Weapons) that might be able to provide some insight.

The other odd feature concerning the G3 in your link, no H&R or HK import markings? The T223 was marked.
I remember seeing those pics of the G3 a few years back, it was on Gunbroker for quite a while.

Here's a close up of the latch on the bipod that would fit that style collar. As with any of the HK bipods, the .223 has a shorter leg due to the length of the hand guard. If they actually made one with longer legs for the G3 I don't know, never seen one.








This G3 could be early enough it didn't need import marks. I have original H&R posters about the partnership with HK. The T223 is pictured prominently and the G-3 is there but no details are available. The T223 was pushing to compete with the M-16 and I believe H&R actually manufactured them (can anyone confirm?) hence they would be marked with H&R. I think the similarities in the two models could be H&R asking HK for certain factory mods. This is a time I wish Aberdeen Proving Grounds Small Arms Museum was still around.
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Old Yesterday, 11:39   #10
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This rifle would have to be from somewhere between 1963-1968 to be devoid of import marks. The March 1962 G-3's have a different connection where the cocking handle tube meets the front sight.The tube on those had the same diameter for the entire length. This has the later style "free-floating" cocking tube that necked down at the front sight.

Valmet- That's the first I've heard of any G-3's that predate the 3/62 rifles. Thanks for the info!
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Old Yesterday, 11:42   #11
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When I say few, I'm thinking like less than 10 guns. Rifle that sold 20ish yeas ago was marked 9/59 IIRC.
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Old Yesterday, 15:11   #12
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Not speaking of an H&R museum. Specifically looking for the H&K (HECKLER & KOCH) museum thst was eluded to above. Not even Google has heard of this museum. Just wondering where the website for this "museum" can be viewed.
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Old Yesterday, 22:04   #13
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So upon research, i see that the closest thing to a museum here in the states is "The Grey Room" at HK USA in VA. But then again there is Reed Knight down in FL.
The only REAL HK museum is in Orndorff Germany. So i ask again Gunplumber, what HK museum did you do work for?
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Old Yesterday, 23:06   #14
planemarty
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Michael- Good luck in finding the HK museum. My original topic for this thread was the Harrington and Richardson Musem though.
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Old Today, 06:27   #15
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Our good friend T Mark has eluded to the "fact" that he was xalled upon to do work for "the HK Museum". I am dieing to find out just exactly WHAT museum he is trying to casually pass off that he did work for.
Maybe he will be good enuf to step up and give us some positive statement of just where his museum quality work can be viewed.
What say ye marky?
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Old Today, 07:37   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael_g927 View Post
Our good friend T Mark has eluded to the "fact" that he was xalled upon to do work for "the HK Museum". I am dieing to find out just exactly WHAT museum he is trying to casually pass off that he did work for.
Maybe he will be good enuf to step up and give us some positive statement of just where his museum quality work can be viewed.
What say ye marky?
I see you've crawled back from your last bitch-slapping - begging for more, are you?

I've been a subcontractor for the HK repair department for around 25 years. They were one of my first customers. A friend of a friend and one of my mentors in metal finishing, went from Hereford* to HK training, and got me an opportunity to show what I could do. Now, it's no secret that if you send a rifle to HK for refinish, they send it to me. And when the guys (and gal) from the HK repair department came out to Yuma for some testing, I drove down to meet up. It's not a big deal, they are people just like any other company. Heck, I've got a small order in from Ashburn right now. Anyway, last year I did a G3k that was destined for the HK museum.

So when Planemarty asked about an H&R import G3, I'm like "hey, I know a guy . . . let me see if I can help." 'Cause I'm awesome that way. My guy just might know about rare HK imports, or have access to those records.

And as usual, you post your smarmy bullshit, just begging me to once again put my boot up your ass. So go f-ck yourself, loser.

*Hereford is a place in England where there are some guys who historically like the MP5 and the G3K - this guy played with one at Prince's Gate. My guy was their POL supplier. 10 years later, that guy was working for the HK training division, and my guy had immigrated to Phoenix by way of South Africa. So it was no big deal to pick up a phone and say "hey guys, we've got a finish here that matches your factory finish -except better. Send us some stuff . http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/arti...-402303162.jpg
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Old Today, 08:07   #17
michael_g927
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Oh goodie. So exactly What museum do you speak of? You keep referring to "The HK museum and yet you still FAIL to mention what and where this museum is. You use vague terms like "my guy", and a friend of a friend type statements. Nothing solid.
So again, what HK museum are you talking about?
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Old Today, 08:58   #18
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Originally Posted by michael_g927 View Post
Oh goodie. So exactly What museum do you speak of? You keep referring to "The HK museum and yet you still FAIL to mention what and where this museum is. You use vague terms like "my guy", and a friend of a friend type statements. Nothing solid.
So again, what HK museum are you talking about?
(Sigh)

Bitch, how the f-ck should I know? I've never been there. Other than gray room, I was unaware there was one. But when Bob says "hey Mark, this demo G3k I'm sending you is going in the HK Museum" I extrapolate from that

1. There is an HK museum
2. My guy has access to it
3. He might know someone with access to the records the OP seeks.

So f-ck off and die already, troll.
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Old Today, 09:12   #19
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You sir, have never been to the grey room. And HK the manufacturer has absolutely NO need for your services.
When i read your initial statement it smacked of the time you posted the plack you "were awarded" for being "the top master gunsmith in (was it the US or the whole world?). Which was proven to be totally fabricated by yourself.
You see, i live in the Tulsa area. I am blessed with having access to the number one custom HK manufacturer ( you know, a company that actually manufacturs firearms with their name on it as well as their serial numbers) as well as guys like The Godfather of HK, Bill Flemming.
Your statement was a good laugh in the HK community. I am sure this is why you are the laughing stock of HKPRO.
It is obvious that you knew exactly where my questions were going on this, as your response was delayed until being called by name, and then you opened upbwith insults!
Then ultimately you backpeddled on my simple question "where is this HK Museum? A guy like you looking to put a feather in your hat would know EXACTLY where your work can be viewed. Fact is, you are a fraud. Just a spray painting hack in a backwoods shed.
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Old Today, 09:31   #20
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Michael-

Thanks for taking over my request for information thread for a trolling attack on someone willing to help. Do me a favor- Take this pettiness to a PM if you want to fight. I genuinely want to gather information on some odd rifles and don't need you pulling it off topic.

Thanks!
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