|March 19, 2013, 22:22||#51|
FALaholic #: 6530
Join Date: May 2002
"I believe that time wounds all heels" ----John Lennon
|March 20, 2013, 09:40||#52|
Hobbyist among Operators
FALaholic #: 20092
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Man you guys are all overboard. Key here is to get a Silencer right? In my own quest to obtained a Silencer, I also learned a lot about Trusts.
First and Foremost, I want to remind everyone that Cartmann is a Hobbyist. He is not a Lawyer, Operator, or one of the Cool Kids.
Here is Cartmann's guide to avoid NFA Trust Problems. Again.. Cartmann is not a scum sucking lawyer trying to get $600 from you, so take his advice for what it's worth (you paid nothing for it after all).
Cartmann is not a big fan of someone saying "your paperwork is not valid", without them explaining what makes it not valid or what will. Here, Cartmann will TRY to explain what he did to get his Trust to go through the ATF. In addition Cartmann will give advice on how to simplify things, and point out where you might encounter problems.
Cartmann has used this one Generic_Trust and it has worked great! It was created from Quicken Willmaker.
Cartmann has also seen the Trust created by the Trust Lawyer guys. Cartmann has a friend that went this route. It appears to also be one created from a generic model (though a whole lot longer than the one from Quicken Willmaker). This one trust will run you $600, a lot of people are willing to go this route because they are very fearful of the ATF and afraid of unwanted problems that might arise. These Trust-Lawyer guys scare you into buying a trust from them because they want $600 from you that took 3 minutes to create.
1) So why do a Trust for an NFA item?
Here are a couple of reasons why Cartmann likes the Trust Route to acquire NFA items:
- You can bypass the whole local CLEO (Chief Law Enforcement Officer) signoff and you do not need finger printing, this speeds up the process. Also Trust Applications seems to also go through the ATF faster since they do not have to verify the CLEO and finger print. Cartmann acquired 4 NFA items this year and each one took between 7-8 weeks between time of mailing it out, and Cartmann receiving the NFA item in his hands.
- Some local CLEOs won't even sign your Form-4, so a trust is the only option.
- Trusts are easy to amend and work with. To add items all you do is send the same Trust to the ATF with a modified Schedule-A (list of Trust Properties)
2) So why Can you get around finger printing with a Trust?
A Trust is not an individual, it's more like a Corporation. You can't fingerprint a Corporation (hence why we can get around the whole CLEO Sign-off and fingerprint thing). EricCartmann can be fingerprinted, but entity "The EricCartmann Revocable Living Trust" cannot be fingerprinted.
3) Make your Trust Revocable, even state that in the Title. "The EricCartmann Revocable Living Trust"
NFA Trusts should always be Amendable and Revocable, so you should clearly state this in the Trust. Quicken Willmaker and all the models of Revocable Trust I have seen on the web all clearly state this.
The Grantor (also called Settlor) is the person who wrote up the trust and the only person/persons who can amend the trust. To simplify things I would make you and only you the Grantor of the Trust.
Trustees are the people on your Trust that have ownership in your Trust Property (In this case the NFA items you have in your Schedule-A). Since we are getting around the whole fingerprinting thing, unlike a "Regular" trust where you can put as many trustees as you want, I would really limit the trustee to only yourself.. or at most you and your wife and that's it. I would not put any friends or other relatives as a trustee. Whatever Trustee you decide to put down, make sure they do not have any felonies are any criminal offense for that matter, and over 21 years old. Here Cartmann only has himself as a Trustee because he wanted to simplify things and play it safe. If you are the only Trustee, you should know if you are over 21 or have a felony or not. If you do not know, just check your Drivers License for your age, and go to the local PD to check to see if you have any criminal record ;-)
6) Successor-Trustee and Alternate-successor-trustee
Clearly state who these individuals are. To simplify things, Cartmann only put down one individual for successor-trustee and one alternate-successor-trustee. Also the people Cartmann did put down, he made sure these individual are over 21, and made sure that they did not have any felonies or any other problems with the laws.
7) Death of Grantor/Settlor
State that the trust become "Irrevocable" and ends at the time of your death. This way all property properly transfer to the Successor Trustee(s) and the Trust ends at the time of you death (or if you become Incapacitated) .
8 ) Incapacity of Grantor
Make sure you have a list of people to determine when you have become "Incapacitated". These people should not be the trustee or alternate-trustee just in case of alterior motives ;-)
9) Trust Laws varies from State to State
Make sure you know the trust laws in your state and how to notarize it. Just because one trust is good in one state does not mean it is good in another. Nevada is a Trust state, so as long as it is properly notarized you should be good to go.
10) Properly Witnessing of Trust
Each state has a different set of laws on how they consider a trust to be properly witnessed. In Nevada you only need to have it notarized. In Louisiana, you need 2 witnesses as well as it being notarized.
11) Access to NFA items.
According to the ATF, no one must have access to your NFA items. What does this mean? Cartmann does not know exactly, but the way Cartmann sees it, if he has a safe and only Cartmann knows the combo of the Safe, then that pretty much covers this area.
12) Funding a trust
A trust should be funded to be legitimate. There has to be a reason why you set that trust up in the first place, and that reason is to set up the proper transfer of certain property. For your first NFA item, your Schedule-A (list of trust properties) should at the very least have something on it besides the NFA item(s) you plan to purchase. I would set up a bank savings account under the name "The EricCartman Revocable Living Trust" and add it in your Schedule A because all Entities such as this trust should have a bank account in addition to other trust properties.
13) Making payment to ATF
When paying the $200 Tax Stamp, I would show the money order came from "The EricCartmann Revocable Living Trust" and not just "EricCartmann". A postal money order works, but make sure it came from the Trust and not the individual. This goes with all Form-4 stuff, the Trust-Entity ("The EricCartmann Revocable Living Trust") and not the individual (EricCartmann) is what should be stated.
14) Schedule-A should have area for a Notary
In your Schedule-A I would add a place for a signature and Notary. This is because you will be updating the Schedule A more in the future and the only real way to tell what is the most up to date Schedule A is by date and notary.
15) Moving to another State.
When moving to another state, make sure you properly amend the trust to state the new State.
|March 26, 2013, 22:27||#53|
FALaholic #: 21037
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Springfield, Oregon
Another thing to think about is to find a good friend who has paid an attorney for an NFA trust, copy it word for word changing the names only. It takes quite a bit of time to type out 15 to 20 pages but hell we're talking about saving $600 dollars of fiat. Besides what you get is an attorney drafted Trust but in your name. It at least sounds good conceptually.
- Elite Team Fighter