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Old June 14, 2019, 08:31   #51
TedKennedy
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Originally Posted by bubbagump View Post
Which begs the question as to why anyone but a five-star raging idiot pays any attention to this whole fiction of 'war crimes' ...
Mostly it benefits those who can portray themselves as the biggest victim. Pretty good opportunity to be exploited under the right conditions.
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Old June 14, 2019, 09:56   #52
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Originally Posted by gunplumber View Post

China is using infiltration and manipulation, while Russia uses invasion, and US uses invasion while pretending we are the good guys.
??? where has Russia invaded lately?




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Old June 14, 2019, 10:07   #53
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??? where has Russia invaded lately?
Are you retarded?
Chechnya, Georgia, Crimea
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Old June 14, 2019, 10:54   #54
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Are you retarded?
Chechnya, Georgia, Crimea
Those 3 'invasions' were either in the Russian Federation (an internal affair) on it's borders and involved Russia's security, including responses to US meddling and muzzie terrorism, not resources.

They don't even want Ukraine, who other than having hot women are mostly just parasites. The Ukie's beaked funnels are now firmly latched onto US taxpayer's teat.

Crimea has been under Russian control for 250 years since they wrestled it away form the muzzie slave traders and they weren't about to lose their only warm water port to a CIA coup.
Russia just doesn't want another armed US base on it's doorstep, and who can blame them?

Russia hasn't gone around the world invading and toppling govts for control of resources (as you claimed) and to maintain the petrodollar, but we certainly have.





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Old June 14, 2019, 11:06   #55
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Originally Posted by juanni View Post
Those 3 'invasions' were either in the Russian Federation (an internal affair) on it's borders and involved Russia's security, including responses to US meddling and muzzie terrorism, not resources.

They don't even want Ukraine, who other than having hot women are mostly just parasites. The Ukie's beaked funnels are now firmly latched onto US taxpayer's teat.

Crimea has been under Russian control for 250 years since they wrestled it away form the muzzie slave traders and they weren't about to lose their only warm water port to a CIA coup.
Russia just doesn't want another armed US base on it's doorstep, and who can blame them?

Russia hasn't gone around the world invading and toppling govts for control of resources (as you claimed) and to maintain the petrodollar, but we certainly have.
Ahh - so invading another country because of muzzie terrorists is not really an invasion. So we didn't invade Afghanistan it was just a "security operation".

And when USSR supported (gov or rebels) forces in Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Malaya, Myanmar, kenya, Algeria, Sudan, Lebanon, Nicaragua, El Slavador, Congo, Yemen, Aden, Rhodesia, Dominican Republic, Chad, Vitenam, Bolivia, South Africa, Angola, etc. etc etc That doesn't count. But when the US supports the other side, that's does count.

Here's a tip for you, Einstein. Supporting a friendly country (or supporting a friendly rebellion) IS a war for resources. Resources don't have to be a tangible thing, like oil. They can be less-tangible things, like favorable fishing rights, air bases, favorable trade relations, etc.

But I get it - the Cold War wasn't a war. It was just "security operations". And the War on terror (however poorly executed) isn't a war, it's "security operations." Except when the US does it. Then it's Baaaaaaaaad!
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Old June 14, 2019, 11:33   #56
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You just really don't get it do you

For every German supporting the Shoah there were likely three or four other Europeans clapping hands too
You want to depict as purely a German event, that's what you been taught & obviously believe when in fact the reality was greatly different.

Anti Jewish sentiment was rampant largely because they refused to integrate much
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Old June 14, 2019, 11:41   #57
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Ahh - so invading another country because of muzzie terrorists is not really an invasion. So we didn't invade Afghanistan it was just a "security operation".
The Soviets are gone.
We were talking about Russia.

And no invading an adjacent state that has attacked you isn't an invasion for resources.

On 9 August 1999, Islamist fighters from Chechnya infiltrated Russia's Dagestan region, declaring it an independent state and calling for a jihad until "all unbelievers had been driven out".[27] On 1 October, Russian troops entered Chechnya.[28][29] The campaign ended the de facto independence of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria and restored Russian federal control over the territory.
^Pretty clear whom attacked whom.



Oh, and I don't believe Bush's fairy tale about Old Man Obama living in a cave in Afghanistan and growing 19 terrorists from magic beans.

However, if that tale was true, and if Bush provided proof to back it up to the American people and the UN (that pesky organization we created to address such things) or even to the Taliban as requested then certainly attacking OBL in that cave was justified if the other means failed.
But to invade, partly occupy and pour $Trillions into Afghanistan for 20 years was plain stupid.

Kinda makes you think we should have asked to see some of that proof before cheering that war on.




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Old June 14, 2019, 12:51   #58
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Originally Posted by juanni View Post
The Soviets are gone.
We were talking about Russia.

And no invading an adjacent state that has attacked you isn't an invasion for resources.

On 9 August 1999, Islamist fighters from Chechnya infiltrated Russia's Dagestan region, declaring it an independent state and calling for a jihad until "all unbelievers had been driven out".[27] On 1 October, Russian troops entered Chechnya.[28][29] The campaign ended the de facto independence of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria and restored Russian federal control over the territory.
^Pretty clear whom attacked whom.



Oh, and I don't believe Bush's fairy tale about Old Man Obama living in a cave in Afghanistan and growing 19 terrorists from magic beans.

However, if that tale was true, and if Bush provided proof to back it up to the American people and the UN (that pesky organization we created to address such things) or even to the Taliban as requested then certainly attacking OBL in that cave was justified if the other means failed.
But to invade, partly occupy and pour $Trillions into Afghanistan for 20 years was plain stupid.

Kinda makes you think we should have asked to see some of that proof before cheering that war on.




.................juanni
That was the second Chechen war.

The first Chechen war, culminating in the carpet bombing of Grozny, didn't go so well - Russia wanted an oil pipeline. OR ELSE!
They eventually got control of the cities. Didn't go so well in the mountains.

There was a conflict between Chechen nationalists and co-opting by Islamic radicals. As is the nature of many conflicts.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I also don't put much stock in the Dread Pirate Roberts AKA OBL. It is a war for resources.
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Old June 14, 2019, 15:59   #59
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That was the second Chechen war.

The first Chechen war, culminating in the carpet bombing of Grozny, didn't go so well - Russia wanted an oil pipeline. OR ELSE!
They eventually got control of the cities. Didn't go so well in the mountains.

There was a conflict between Chechen nationalists and co-opting by Islamic radicals. As is the nature of many conflicts.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I also don't put much stock in the Dread Pirate Roberts AKA OBL. It is a war for resources.
The 1st war was about separatists wanting out of the Russian Federation, a off to the side civil war if you will.
So Russia invaded...... well Russia. Or at least a part of Russia, that had been part of Russia since 1864.
You know back when about our separatists were defeated in our big civil war when the US invaded the US.


So I am really not seeing where Russia has been doing all this invading of other countries for resources like we have.





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Old June 14, 2019, 16:34   #60
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So I am really not seeing where Russia has been doing all this invading of other countries for resources like we have
you don't see anything that doesn't fit your anti-American narrative.
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Old June 15, 2019, 11:52   #61
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you don't see anything that doesn't fit your anti-American narrative.
Got it backward.
Anti meddling, anti war, just like the founders, which is way, way out of style currently in the US.


The list of US military meddling, interventions and wars since 1991 when Russia was reconstituted from the Soviet Union.

1991: Iraq: Operation Desert Storm, The Allied air to land offensive from 17 January 1991 to 11 April 1991[9]
1991: Iraq: Operation Desert Sabre, The Allied ground offensive from 24-27 Feb 1991[9]
1991–1996: Iraq: Operation Provide Comfort, Delivery of humanitarian relief and military protection for Kurds fleeing their homes in northern Iraq during the 1991 uprising, by a small Allied ground force based in Turkey which began in April 1991.
1991: Iraq: On May 17, 1991, President Bush stated that the Iraqi repression of the Kurdish people had necessitated a limited introduction of U.S. forces into northern Iraq for emergency relief purposes.[RL30172]
1991: Zaire: On September 25–27, 1991, after widespread looting and rioting broke out in Kinshasa, Air Force C-141s transported 100 Belgian troops and equipment into Kinshasa. American planes also carried 300 French troops into the Central African Republic and hauled evacuated American citizens.[RL30172]
1992: Sierra Leone: Operation Silver Anvil, Following the April 29 coup that overthrew President Joseph Saidu Momoh, a United States European Command (USEUCOM) Joint Special Operations Task Force evacuated 438 people (including 42 Third Country nationals) on May 3. Two Air Mobility Command (AMC) C-141s flew 136 people from Freetown, Sierra Leone, to the Rhein-Main Air Base in Germany and nine C-130 sorties carried another 302 people to Dakar, Senegal.[RL30172]
1992–1996: Bosnia and Herzegovina: Operation Provide Promise was a humanitarian relief operation in Bosnia and Herzegovina during the Yugoslav Wars, from July 2, 1992, to January 9, 1996, which made it the longest running humanitarian airlift in history.[10]
1992: Kuwait: On August 3, 1992, the United States began a series of military exercises in Kuwait, following Iraqi refusal to recognize a new border drawn up by the United Nations and refusal to cooperate with UN inspection teams.[RL30172]
1992–2003: Iraq: Iraqi no-fly zones, The U.S., United Kingdom, and its Gulf War allies declared and enforced "no-fly zones" over the majority of sovereign Iraqi airspace, prohibiting Iraqi flights in zones in southern Iraq and northern Iraq, conducting aerial reconnaissance, and several specific attacks on Iraqi air-defense systems as part of the UN mandate. Often, Iraqi forces continued throughout a decade by firing on U.S. and British aircraft patrolling no-fly zones.(See also Operation Northern Watch, Operation Southern Watch) [RL30172]
1993–1995: Bosnia: Operation Deny Flight, On April 12, 1993, in response to a United Nations Security Council passage of Resolution 816, U.S. and NATO enforced the no-fly zone over the Bosnian airspace, prohibited all unauthorized flights and allowed to "take all necessary measures to ensure compliance with [the no-fly zone restrictions]."
1993: Somalia: Battle of Mogadishu, or the First Battle of Mogadishu, the outcome of Operation Gothic Serpent. October 3–4, 1993, Task Force Ranger, made up largely of the 75th Ranger Regiment and Delta Force entered hostile urban area Mogadishu to seize two high ranking S.N.A. leaders. Two American UH-60 Black Hawks are shot down, 18 Americans are killed in action, with another 73 wounded, and 1 captured. The events of the battle were gathered in the book Black Hawk Down, which was later adapted to a movie of the same name.
1993: Macedonia: On July 9, 1993, President Clinton reported the deployment of 350 U.S. soldiers to the Republic of Macedonia to participate in the UN Protection Force to help maintain stability in the area of former Yugoslavia.[RL30172]
1994: Bosnia: Banja Luka incident, NATO become involved in the first combat situation when NATO U.S. Air Force F-16 jets shot down four of the six Bosnian Serb J-21 Jastreb single-seat light attack jets for violating UN-mandated no-fly zone.
1994–1995: Haiti: Operation Uphold Democracy, U.S. ships had begun embargo against Haiti. Up to 20,000 U.S. military troops were later deployed to Haiti to restore democratically elected Haiti President Jean-Bertrand Aristide from a military regime which came into power in 1991 after a major coup.[RL30172]
1994: Macedonia: On April 19, 1994, President Clinton reported that the U.S. contingent in Macedonia had been increased by a reinforced company of 200 personnel.[RL30172]
1994: Kuwait: Operation Vigilant Warrior began in October 1994 when Iraqi Republican Guard Divisions began repositioning within Iraq south near the Kuwaiti border. U.S. Forces countered with a movement of forces to the Gulf - the largest since Operation Desert Shield. The operation as officially terminated on December 22, 1994. Also see [11]
1995: Bosnia: Operation Deliberate Force, On August 30, 1995, U.S. and NATO aircraft began a major bombing campaign of Bosnian Serb Army in response to a Bosnian Serb mortar attack on a Sarajevo market that killed 37 people on August 28, 1995. This operation lasted until September 20, 1995. The air campaign along with a combined allied ground force of Muslim and Croatian Army against Serb positions led to a Dayton Agreement in December 1995 with the signing of warring factions of the war. As part of Operation Joint Endeavor, U.S. and NATO dispatched the Implementation Force (IFOR) peacekeepers to Bosnia to uphold the Dayton agreement.[RL30172]
1996: Central African Republic, Operation Quick Response: On May 23, 1996, President Clinton reported the deployment of U.S. military personnel to Bangui, Central African Republic, to conduct the evacuation from that country of "private U.S. citizens and certain U.S. government employees", and to provide "enhanced security for the American Embassy in Bangui."[RL30172] United States Marine Corps elements of Joint Task Force Assured Response, responding in nearby Liberia, provided security to the embassy and evacuated 448 people, including between 190 and 208 Americans. The last Marines left Bangui on June 22.
1996: Kuwait: Operation Desert Strike, American Air Strikes in the north to protect the Kurdish population against the Iraqi Army attacks.
1996: Bosnia: Operation Joint Guard, On December 21, 1996, U.S. and NATO established the SFOR peacekeepers to replace the IFOR in enforcing the peace under the Dayton agreement.
1997: Albania: Operation Silver Wake, On March 13, 1997, U.S. military forces were used to evacuate certain U.S. government employees and private U.S. citizens from Tirana, Albania.[RL30172]
1997: Congo and Gabon: On March 27, 1997, President Clinton reported on March 25, 1997, a standby evacuation force of U.S. military personnel had been deployed to Congo and Gabon to provide enhanced security and to be available for any necessary evacuation operation.[RL30172]
1997: Sierra Leone: On May 29 and 30, 1997, U.S. military personnel were deployed to Freetown, Sierra Leone, to prepare for and undertake the evacuation of certain U.S. government employees and private U.S. citizens.[RL30172]
1997: Cambodia: On July 11, 1997, In an effort to ensure the security of American citizens in Cambodia during a period of domestic conflict there, a Task Force of about 550 U.S. military personnel were deployed at Utapao Air Base in Thailand for possible evacuations. [RL30172]
1998: Iraq: Operation Desert Fox, U.S. and British forces conduct a major four-day bombing campaign from December 16–19, 1998 on Iraqi targets.[RL30172]
1998–1999: Kenya and Tanzania: U.S. military personnel were deployed to Nairobi, Kenya, to coordinate the medical and disaster assistance related to the bombing of the U.S. Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.[RL30172]
1998: Afghanistan and Sudan: Operation Infinite Reach. On August 20, President Clinton ordered a cruise missile attack against two suspected terrorist training camps in Afghanistan and a suspected chemical factory in Sudan.[RL30172]
1998: Liberia: On September 27, 1998, America deployed a stand-by response and evacuation force of 30 U.S. military personnel to increase the security force at the U.S. Embassy in Monrovia. [1] [RL30172]
1999–2001: East Timor: Limited number of U.S. military forces deployed with the United Nations-mandated International Force for East Timor restore peace to East Timor.[RL30172]
1999: Serbia: Operation Allied Force: U.S. and NATO aircraft began a major bombing of Serbia and Serb positions in Kosovo on March 24, 1999, during the Kosovo War due to the refusal by Serbian President Slobodan Milošević to end repression against ethnic Albanians in Kosovo. This operation ended in June 10, 1999, when Milošević agreed to pull his troops out of Kosovo. In response to the situation in Kosovo, NATO dispatched the KFOR peacekeepers to secure the peace under UNSC Resolution 1244.[RL30172]
2000: Sierra Leone: On May 12, 2000, a U.S. Navy patrol craft deployed to Sierra Leone to support evacuation operations from that country if needed.[RL30172]
2000: Nigeria: Special Forces troops are sent to Nigeria to lead a training mission in the country.[12]
2000: Yemen: On October 12, 2000, after the USS Cole attack in the port of Aden, Yemen, military personnel were deployed to Aden.[RL30172]
2000: East Timor: On February 25, 2000, a small number of U.S. military personnel were deployed to support the United Nations Transitional Administration in East Timor (UNTAET). [RL30172]
2001: On April 1, 2001, a mid-air collision between a United States Navy EP-3E ARIES II signals surveillance aircraft and a People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) J-8II interceptor fighter jet resulted in an international dispute between the United States and the People's Republic of China called the Hainan Island incident.
2001–2014: War in Afghanistan: The War on Terror begins with Operation Enduring Freedom. On October 7, 2001, U.S. Armed Forces invade Afghanistan in response to the 9/11 attacks and "begin combat action in Afghanistan against Al Qaeda terrorists and their Taliban supporters."[RL30172]
2002: Yemen: On November 3, 2002, an American MQ-1 Predator fired a Hellfire missile at a car in Yemen killing Qaed Salim Sinan al-Harethi, an al-Qaeda leader thought to be responsible for the USS Cole bombing.[RL30172]
2002: Philippines: OEF-Philippines, As of January, U.S. "combat-equipped and combat support forces" have been deployed to the Philippines to train with, assist and advise the Philippines' Armed Forces in enhancing their "counterterrorist capabilities."[RL30172]
2002: Côte d'Ivoire: On September 25, 2002, in response to a rebellion in Côte d'Ivoire, U.S. military personnel went into Côte d'Ivoire to assist in the evacuation of American citizens from Bouaké.[13][RL30172]
2003–2011: War in Iraq: Operation Iraqi Freedom, March 20, 2003, The United States leads a coalition that includes the United Kingdom, Australia and Poland to invade Iraq with the stated goal being "to disarm Iraq in pursuit of peace, stability, and security both in the Gulf region and in the United States."[RL30172]
2003: Liberia: Second Liberian Civil War, On June 9, 2003, President Bush reported that on June 8 he had sent about 35 U.S. Marines into Monrovia, Liberia, to help secure the U.S. Embassy in Nouakchott, Mauritania, and to aid in any necessary evacuation from either Liberia or Mauritania.[RL30172]
2003: Georgia and Djibouti: "US combat equipped and support forces" had been deployed to Georgia and Djibouti to help in enhancing their "counterterrorist capabilities."[14]
2004: Haiti: 2004 Haitian coup d'état occurs, The US first sent 55 combat equipped military personnel to augment the U.S. Embassy security forces there and to protect American citizens and property in light. Later 200 additional US combat-equipped, military personnel were sent to prepare the way for a UN Multinational Interim Force, MINUSTAH.[RL30172]
2004: War on Terror: U.S. anti-terror related activities were underway in Georgia, Djibouti, Kenya, Ethiopia, Yemen, and Eritrea.[15]
2004–present: The U.S. deploys drone strikes to aid in the War in North-West Pakistan
2005–2006: Pakistan: President Bush deploys troops from US Army Air Cav Brigades to provide Humanitarian relief to far remote villages in the Kashmir mountain ranges of Pakistan stricken by a massive earthquake.
2006: Lebanon: part of the 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit[16] begins evacuation of U.S. citizens willing to leave the country in the face of a likely ground invasion by Israel and continued fighting between Hezbollah and the Israeli military.[16][17]
2007 - The Mogadishu Encounter, on November 4, 2007, Somali Pirates boarded and attacked a North Korean merchant vessel. Passing U.S. Navy Ships and a helicopter that were patrolling at the time responded to the attack. Once the ship was freed from the pirates, the American forces were given permission to board and assist the wounded crew and handle surviving pirates.
2007: Somalia: Battle of Ras Kamboni, On January 8, 2007, while the conflict between the Islamic Courts Union and the Transitional Federal Government continues, an AC-130 gunship conducts an aerial strike on a suspected al-Qaeda operative, along with other Islamist fighters, on Badmadow Island near Ras Kamboni in southern Somalia.[18]
2010–present: al-Qaeda insurgency in Yemen: The U.S. has been launching a series of drone strikes on suspected al-Qaeda, al-Shabaab, and ISIS positions in Yemen.
2010–2011: Operation New Dawn, On February 17, 2010, U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates announced that as of September 1, 2010, the name "Operation Iraqi Freedom" would be replaced by "Operation New Dawn". This coincides with the reduction of American troops to 50,000.
2011: 2011 military intervention in Libya: Operation Odyssey Dawn, United States and coalition enforcing U.N. Security Council Resolution 1973 with bombings of Libyan forces.
2011: Osama Bin Laden is killed by U.S. military forces in Pakistan as part of Operation Neptune Spear.
2011: Drone strikes on al-Shabab militants begin in Somalia.[19] This marks the 6th nation in which such strikes have been carried out,[20] including Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Yemen[21] and Libya.
2011–present: Uganda: U.S. Combat troops sent in as advisers to Uganda.[22]
2012: Jordan: 150 U.S. troops deployed to Jordan to help it contain the Syrian Civil War within Syria's borders.[23]
2012: Turkey: 400 troops and two batteries of Patriot missiles sent to Turkey to prevent any missile strikes from Syria.[24]
2012: Chad: 50 U.S. troops have deployed to the African country of Chad to help evacuate U.S. citizens and embassy personnel from the neighboring Central African Republic's capital of Bangui in the face of rebel advances toward the city.
2013: Mali: U.S. forces assisted the French in Operation Serval with air refueling and transport aircraft.
2013: Somalia: U.S. Air Force planes supported the French in the Bulo Marer hostage rescue attempt. However, they did not use any weapons.[25]
2013: 2013 Korean crisis
2013: Navy SEALs conducted a raid in Somalia and possibly killed a senior Al-Shabaab official, simultaneously another raid took place in Tripoli, Libya, where Special Operations Forces captured Abu Anas al Libi (also known as Anas al-Libi)[26]
2014–present: Uganda: V-22 Ospreys, MC-130s, KC-135s and additional U.S. soldiers are sent to Uganda to continue to help African forces search for Joseph Kony.[27]
2014–present: American intervention in Iraq: Hundreds of U.S. troops deployed to protect American assets in Iraq and to advise Iraqi and Kurdish fighters.[28] In August the U.S. Air Force conducted a humanitarian air drop and the U.S. Navy began a series of airstrikes against Islamic State-aligned forces throughout northern Iraq.[29][30]
2014: 2014 American rescue mission in Syria: The U.S. attempted to rescue James Foley and other hostages being held by ISIL. Air strikes were conducted on the ISIL military base known as "Osama bin Laden camp". Meanwhile, the bombings, Delta teams parachuted near an ISIL high-valued prison. The main roads were blocked to keep any target from escaping. When no hostage was found, the American troops began house to house searches. By this time, ISIL militants began arriving to the area. Heavy fighting occurred until the Americans decided to abandon the mission due to the hostages being nowhere in the area. Although the mission failed, at least 5 ISIL militants were killed, however 1 American troop was wounded. According to the reports, Jordan had a role in the operation and that one Jordanian soldier had been wounded as well. This was unconfirmed.
2014–present: American-led intervention in Syria: American aircraft bomb Islamic State positions in Syria. Airstrikes on al-Qaeda, al-Nusra Front and Khorasan positions are also being conducted.
2014–present: Intervention against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant: Syrian locals forces and American-led coalition forces launch a series of aerial attacks on ISIL and al-Nusra Front positions in Iraq and Syria.
2014: 2014 Yemen hostage rescue operations against al-Qaeda: On November 25, U.S. Navy SEALs and Yemeni Special Forces launched an operations in Yemen in attempt to rescue eight hostages that were being held by al-Qaeda. Although the operation was successful, no American hostages were secured. In the first attempt, six Yemenis, one Saudi Arabian, and one Ethiopian were rescued. On December 4, 2014, al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) threatened to execute the Somers if the U.S. failed to the unspecified commands. AQAP also stated that they would be executed if the U.S. attempted another rescue operation. On December 6, a second operation was launched. 40 U.S. SEALs and 30 Yemeni troops were deployed to the compound. A 10-minute fire fight occurred before the American troops could enter where the remaining hostages (Somers and Korkie) were being held. They were alive, but fatally wounded. Surgery was done in mid air when flying away from the site. Korkie died while in flight, and Somers died once landed on USS Makin Island. No American troop was killed/injured, however a Yemenis soldier was wounded.
2015: April 30, 2015 U.S. sends ships to the Strait of Hormuz to shield vessels after Iranian seizure of a commercial vessel, MV Maersk Tigris. Iran fired shots over the bow, and seized the ship registered in the Marshall Islands, as part of a decade-long legal dispute between Iran and Maersk.[31]
2015–present: In early October 2015, the US military deployed 300 troops to Cameroon, with the approval of the Cameroonian government; their primary mission was to provide intelligence support to local forces as well as conducting reconnaissance flights.[citation needed]
2017: 2017 Shayrat missile strike: Tomahawk missiles launched from US naval vessels in the Mediterranean hit a Syrian airbase in Homs Governorate in response to a chemical weapons attack against civilians south-west of Idlib. Seven were killed and nine wounded.[32]
2018: 2018 bombing of Damascus and Homs was launched in response to the alleged Douma chemical attack against civilians in April 2018.[33]


^Russia nor any other nation even come close.





................juanni

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Old June 15, 2019, 12:48   #62
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you don't see anything that doesn't fit your anti-American narrative.
No, he does not,,,the internet was created for J,,,allows him to blather on and on,,,of course its always someone else doing the thinking/writing,,he's just a septic holding tank, that blows off its lid from time to time, with others old shit.
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Old June 15, 2019, 13:06   #63
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of course its always someone else doing the thinking/writing,,he's just a septic holding tank, that blows off its lid from time to time, with others old shit.
yeah, he's great at cutting and pasting things he doesn't understand.

Because a mid-air collision is "meddling" (huh?).

There are millions of people today living in freedom thanks to American "meddling". Reagan, Thatcher, JP2, and the house of Saud made the Soviet Union collapse and freed eastern Europe from communist tyranny.

Not all US interventions are righteous, but burying one's head in the sand is not a viable foreign policy.
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Old June 15, 2019, 13:39   #64
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...................

Oh, and for what it's worth, I also don't put much stock in the Dread Pirate Roberts AKA OBL. It is a war for resources.
Excellent reference.

And for j.. on that topic ~

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Anyone that says differently is selling something. "




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Old June 15, 2019, 17:08   #65
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No, he does not,,,the internet was created for J,,,allows him to blather on and on,,,of course its always someone else doing the thinking/writing,,he's just a septic holding tank, that blows off its lid from time to time, with others old shit.
Well don't know about all that Paul
You demand internet cites regularly in our discussions
You & my other friend V use them all the damn' time too

I mostly attempt to avoid them
corner me as in the Jewish graveyard debate, well I will open a can of virtual whoopass

I have just a ton of vintage reference paper I have thought on placing online
I have observed that's a dangerous game. All it takes is some lunatic C/Ping something then it get's discounted

Upstairs there is a current thread on todays workplace
I think it's Surly bemoaning all the fookin' morons with smartphones who figure they are somehow intellectual on every subject matter these days
I get it regularly at shows, annoys me to no small end but I usually bite my lower lip and write whomever off as a complete fool
conversely that same crowd will sometimes accuse me of being a Google fingering fool which amuses those who actually know me to no small end.

Mark:


Dunno' about that freedom bullshit
While I'm with you on Regan & Thatcher
The House of Saud ?
Really brother ?
they have been radical enablers for DECADES

Some examples
Who backed Idi Amin in Uganda ?
2 groups
The House of Saud and to a far smaller level Israel
Amin slaughtered millions as an Islamic holy leader, largely Christian Blacks
Regan & Thatcher were too busy fookin with Whites in Rhodesia and SA

So what happened to that murderous thug ?
America airlifted him, his many wives and children plus tons of gold to Saudi Arabia where he lived as a prince until death some years ago

Want me to get into the Congo mess ?

How about the Mau Mau
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Old June 15, 2019, 17:19   #66
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yeah, he's great at cutting and pasting things he doesn't understand.

Because a mid-air collision is "meddling" (huh?).

There are millions of people today living in freedom thanks to American "meddling". Reagan, Thatcher, JP2, and the house of Saud made the Soviet Union collapse and freed eastern Europe from communist tyranny.

Not all US interventions are righteous, but burying one's head in the sand is not a viable foreign policy.
Tagline worthy, that
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Old June 15, 2019, 18:05   #67
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yeah, he's great at cutting and pasting things he doesn't understand.

Because a mid-air collision is "meddling" (huh?).

There are millions of people today living in freedom thanks to American "meddling". Reagan, Thatcher, JP2, and the house of Saud made the Soviet Union collapse and freed eastern Europe from communist tyranny.

Not all US interventions are righteous, but burying one's head in the sand is not a viable foreign policy.
I do so enjoy,,,,throwing Sir Winston, FDR, And Stalin out for him to blow a gasket on,,,but like them or not,,perfect they sure as hell were not,,,they got the job at hand done.

Some days,,I mention Bomber Harris,,,now that one rates a few pages of cut and paste,,been saving General Tibbit's for the right time. Already used General (burn them all) Lamay.
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Old June 15, 2019, 18:28   #68
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Old Yesterday, 01:19   #69
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Mark:


Dunno' about that freedom bullshit
While I'm with you on Regan & Thatcher
The House of Saud ?
Really brother ?
they have been radical enablers for DECADES
AWACs to the Saudis (which pissed of the Israelis, of course). In turn, not participate in the OPEC embargo and undercut the value of USSR oil - their only real international asset. Contributed substantially to the USSR economic collapse. Reagan's deficit spending buried them - they couldn't compete in the arms race economically, so after Reykjavík Summit, where Ronnie walked away over Star Wars (a bluff, as it didn't really exist), Gorby gave up and we got perestroika and glasnost.

yeah, Ronnie, Maggie, and PJ2 (and Lech Wałęsa and the meddling CIA) couldn't have done it without the House of Saud. Not saying that SA is a positive contribution in toto (quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum sonatur), but they were there when it counted. How long before the debt is paid, is reminiscent of the French in our War for Independence. I think bailing them out of two World Wars is paid in full, but what do I know . .. we'd still be a colony without those (now) cheese-eating surrender monkeys. (but we have wine and baguettes!)
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Old Yesterday, 01:28   #70
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No such thing as perfect people/persons,, or nations.

SA has been both helpful, and not so helpful at times.

Accept the help when offered, then mitigate the times they are not so helpful.
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Old Yesterday, 13:01   #71
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Stupid question: based on the arguments presented in this discussion why don't we just take over Afghanistan, kill anyone who remotely looks like might have heard of Muhammad or Mecca, and then repopulate it with people who are more, ahem, thankful to us, supportive of our interests, who will keep Pakistan in check (which might make India happy)? It should not take 20 years to do that; we are not the Soviet Union after all.

Send a message to the other nations: Mess with the US, you are out of the planet.

Then you can go to Mexico and tell if it can't get it's ass in order, the US can do that for them, in our particular way.

Instead of the wish-washy that is being played right now that costs so much in resources including US lives.
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Old Yesterday, 13:32   #72
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AWACs to the Saudis (which pissed of the Israelis, of course). In turn, not participate in the OPEC embargo and undercut the value of USSR oil - their only real international asset. Contributed substantially to the USSR economic collapse. Reagan's deficit spending buried them - they couldn't compete in the arms race economically, so after Reykjavík Summit, where Ronnie walked away over Star Wars (a bluff, as it didn't really exist), Gorby gave up and we got perestroika and glasnost.

yeah, Ronnie, Maggie, and PJ2 (and Lech Wałęsa and the meddling CIA) couldn't have done it without the House of Saud. Not saying that SA is a positive contribution in toto (quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum sonatur), but they were there when it counted. How long before the debt is paid, is reminiscent of the French in our War for Independence. I think bailing them out of two World Wars is paid in full, but what do I know . .. we'd still be a colony without those (now) cheese-eating surrender monkeys. (but we have wine and baguettes!)
Very good points on the Saudis

While the French tend to get all the credit during our Revolution Spain contributed an enormous amount of arms & powder as well as cash in the form of Silver so the Continetal Congress could make good on debts
That's why Spanish silver remained legal tender in America well into the early 19th century

seem to recall the Swedes and Dutch poured cash in too.
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Old Yesterday, 21:02   #73
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There are millions of people today living in freedom thanks to American "meddling". Reagan, Thatcher, JP2, and the house of Saud made the Soviet Union collapse and freed eastern Europe from communist tyranny.

Not all US interventions are righteous, but burying one's head in the sand is not a viable foreign policy.
The Soviet Union collapsed because it wasn't economically viable to 'pretend to pay people that pretend to work" and the folly of central planning.

Sure Ronnie spending billions we didn't have in Afghanistan and creating
AQ probably helped the demise, but the Soviet Union was going down anyway. And of course AQ went on to pursue it's own agenda.

As are we with all our socialism, crony capitalism, welfare and debt.

And as RSS points out their are millions dead from our meddling too, including many millions who lived under US installed and propped up dictators.

So where do you get the idea that our nation was founded to go out in the world and spread freedom by gunpoint?





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Old Yesterday, 21:34   #74
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The Soviet Union collapsed because it wasn't economically viable to 'pretend to pay people that pretend to work" and the folly of central planning.

Sure Ronnie spending billions we didn't have in Afghanistan and creating
AQ probably helped the demise, but the Soviet Union was going down anyway. And of course AQ went on to pursue it's own agenda.

As are we with all our socialism, crony capitalism, welfare and debt.

And as RSS points out their are millions dead from our meddling too, including many millions who lived under US installed and propped up dictators.

And where do you get the idea that our nation was founded to go out in the world and spread freedom by gunpoint?





..............juanni
Yeah well, why was Uganda important ?

get this, Coffee beans & fookin' Tea leaves...
shades of the Banana Wars folks ?

huge industry, millions of bucks involved

Philippines
why did we get all stupid early 2000s pouring millions in for their military ?

PINEAPPLE which is mostly owned by Dole

Columbia again is about Coffee, not dope
it's an enormous commodity worth billions of bucks globally overall
we hardly wage war over right or wrong, it's mostly about things we want
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Old Yesterday, 23:51   #75
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Yeah well, why was Uganda important ?
well it ain't because of some Kony / Lord's Resistance Army that nobody had heard from for 20 years (but kudos for great YouTube agitprop!.
A masterful disinformation campaign! "He's as bad as Hitler!" ( Said no Uganda who had never even heard of him).

6.5 billion barrels of oil discovered in the Lake Albert basin back in '06 - that might have something to do with the US deciding it needed to help Uganda "fight the bad guy - he's worse than Hitler!".

Idi Amin Dada was an interesting character and props to Forrest Witaker in what I think was one of his best roles. But other than Entebbe - not the stupid 7 days fiction, but the real 1 hour operation - that's about the only mention of Uganda since the Brits gave up hegemony in 1921 (and yeah, coffee and cotton).
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Old Today, 00:02   #76
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Like grandpa Bush? And other US industrialists who supplied Nazis during the war?

https://www.amazon.com/Traitors-Aust...s+frank+walker
Yes. Just like them.
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Old Today, 07:00   #77
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well it ain't because of some Kony / Lord's Resistance Army that nobody had heard from for 20 years (but kudos for great YouTube agitprop!.
A masterful disinformation campaign! "He's as bad as Hitler!" ( Said no Uganda who had never even heard of him).

6.5 billion barrels of oil discovered in the Lake Albert basin back in '06 - that might have something to do with the US deciding it needed to help Uganda "fight the bad guy - he's worse than Hitler!".

Idi Amin Dada was an interesting character and props to Forrest Witaker in what I think was one of his best roles. But other than Entebbe - not the stupid 7 days fiction, but the real 1 hour operation - that's about the only mention of Uganda since the Brits gave up hegemony in 1921 (and yeah, coffee and cotton).
'Big Daddy Amin' was indeed an interesting character.
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Old Today, 08:33   #78
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well it ain't because of some Kony / Lord's Resistance Army that nobody had heard from for 20 years (but kudos for great YouTube agitprop!.
A masterful disinformation campaign! "He's as bad as Hitler!" ( Said no Uganda who had never even heard of him).

6.5 billion barrels of oil discovered in the Lake Albert basin back in '06 - that might have something to do with the US deciding it needed to help Uganda "fight the bad guy - he's worse than Hitler!".

Idi Amin Dada was an interesting character and props to Forrest Witaker in what I think was one of his best roles. But other than Entebbe - not the stupid 7 days fiction, but the real 1 hour operation - that's about the only mention of Uganda since the Brits gave up hegemony in 1921 (and yeah, coffee and cotton).
Interesting
wasn't aware of that recent petroleum reserve discovery there.
point is back in the day Uganda under Amin was mostly about coffee beans

On oil though
One of our fellow vendors sons ended up deployed to Somalia
his tour of duty was part of a security detail for petroleum engineers
way the kid told his story our incursion there was all about oil exploration

Another character we used to know was former CIA in SE Asia
His story on Vietnam was that the French had discovered the oil fields under the South China Sea in the 50s however there was no tech available to tap it at that time.
When the French abandoned Indochina we jumped feet first in it to deny the commies access to the deposit in the future.

This is what's going on now with the PRC establishing dominion over the South China Sea seizing islands from the Philippines and such by invasion
Hardly covered at all by the western media but it's a big deal in SE Asia

Entebbe...

You knew that the troops the IDF landed were allegedly Black right ?
not only that but they were clothed as Ugandan Army and armed with the same Ingram 9mm M10 SMgs the Izzy's had sold Dada
yeah one of Uganda's main army guns was the MAC10

The Deac M10s being sold in the UK are African sourced btw

Amin was one nasty piece of dog shit Mark
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Old Today, 08:39   #79
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Amin was one nasty piece of dog shit Mark
Any other earth-shattering revelations you wish to share? Maybe some other mid-eastern or African dictator who was a meanie?
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Old Today, 11:26   #80
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Any other earth-shattering revelations you wish to share? Maybe some other mid-eastern or African dictator who was a meanie?
nope
just he was our stooge controlled by America and Israel while he openly went about tribal genocide and while America licked Maggies asshole over Rhodesia
pretty sure that was Thatcher shit games, not going to google it up, the UK sucks dog turds

That was the real suck of it all
America gimped on over Black votes on the horn while other Negros were carving tits off women. That's where all this shit started Mark
it was maddening listening to jackasses braying on about the Rhodies & SA back then when there were other just huge problems afoot in Africa

As much as we sometimes slapfest I seriously respect your opinions on many things Mark
Started even earlier, back in the 50s in Congo really, that's still a war zone

England got all up in the panties over the system Rhodes put in place, aparthied then later shaped it out as some dutch german innovation which it never was.

Germany administered African colonies 180 degrees from the English
we can get into that too if you wish, just saying there is plenty of shitty doings in Africa well outside this idiot slavery notion.
serious genocides of peoples there by other Blacks and yes Europeans

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Old Today, 11:52   #81
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serious genocides of peoples there by other Blacks and yes Europeans
I don't understand why you think this is some revelation. I thought it was common knowledge.
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Old Today, 15:18   #82
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I don't understand why you think this is some revelation. I thought it was common knowledge.
Should be but even to many here it's not Mark
that's what these discussions are good for
making folks aware of factual reality opposed to bullshit
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