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Old June 03, 2019, 16:03   #1
Invictus77
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American Eagle 5.56 experience???

I went to a friend's farm yesterday who has a range set-up out to 1,000 yards. My own purpose was to sight in a new Vortex scope on a 20" HB AR at 300 yards for coyotes.

It was shooting a 2.5-3 MOA group which was very disappointing. I only took the one rifle and one brand of ammo with me. I will do this again and at this point I cannot rule out the rifle just yet, but my gut tells me it is probably the ammo.

It was American Eagle XM193 which I picked up cheap a couple years ago. It has been fine for steel plate banging on my home 100 yard range and it just happened to be what I grabbed yesterday.

Anyone else had any experience with this ammo, good or bad?
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Old June 03, 2019, 16:27   #2
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I think I have a bunch of it...I am hoping to get to the range next week, will let you know how it works out for me
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Old June 03, 2019, 17:42   #3
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Good bullets fired through good barrels usually produce good groups.

Shitty bullets fired through good barrels always produce shitty groups.

ALL bulk-pack 55 grain bullets are shitty bullets.

You do the math.

I've shot a lot of that stuff through good barrels. Usually groups sorta-OK, then throws a shot way out of the group. No shocker there.

Life is too short to shoot crappy ammo unless all you really care about is making loud noise and showing off your "cool guns" to people who either don't know better, or who just don't give a shit.
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Old June 03, 2019, 18:23   #4
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Do you reload? Nosler 77gr. CCís are the bomb.
XBR 8208 and Tac go nicely with those bullets.
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Old June 03, 2019, 18:42   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.E.G. View Post
Shitty bullets fired through good barrels always produce shitty groups.
I'm 99% confident that is the case here. I had sighted it in a couple weeks or so ago at 100 yards and it was keeping well under 1" groups when I did my part. I have at least 5 brands of 556 around here and I don't recall what I used that day at home, but yeah I am guessing it was not the AE stuff.
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Old June 03, 2019, 19:01   #6
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In my experience, the Fed XM193 is mediocre at best.

Currently, the best cheap M193-type ammo available is the Wolf Gold .223 Rem. 55gr FMJ (which is just 5.56x45mm M193 (with the M193 FMJBT bullet)) that Wolf imports from Taiwan. It's probably not advertised as 5.56x45mm M193 to circumnavigate some export/import regulations. It beats Rem/Win/Fed/IMI/etc. M193 type ammo, hands down...

And, if the Wolf Gold wasn't available, I'd probably shoot the PPU or S&B M193-type ammo. Notice no US produced stuff mentioned here, and that's no error of omission. High end specialty ammo is somewhat of a different situation...

That's 'in my opinion,' of course, and YMMV. Of course, my opinion is based on shooting a lot of the stuff available, but whatever...

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Old June 03, 2019, 19:03   #7
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I can only comment on the Federal AE 50 grain hollow point bullets. I killed a lot of coyotes with them, probably at least 50, and never had one run away wounded. They are tough little bullets, and shot amazing groups for me. AZ coyote hunting is a short range sport, if you do your job calling them in, 50-80 yard shots are the norm.

In fact, I took my Remington .223 VS to South Africa one year, and attended a benchrest match, shooting them. One of the top benchrest shooters shot a couple of groups with it, using his rest and equipment. He told me if it was an official match, the rifle would have beat the SA record for stock class, factory ammo.

Best of all, these were $4/20 back in the mid 90's. I still have about a 1000 left.

Another comment, never ever shoot coyotes using FMJ bullets, unless you enjoy tracking wounded ones. Had a buddy that insisted on shooting them, he wounded almost every one he shot.
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Old June 03, 2019, 19:05   #8
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Shooting over a half a mile away with that stuff, I'd be fine with the results. It's basically mil spec. Have the 855 and never thought of it as anything but shooting ammo
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Old June 03, 2019, 20:44   #9
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Another comment, never ever shoot coyotes using FMJ bullets, unless you enjoy tracking wounded ones. Had a buddy that insisted on shooting them, he wounded almost every one he shot.
Shit, if I'd known we were talking about shooting coyotes, I'd have suggested something other than M193 (unless the range is close).

I'd prefer the M193 on deer over most 'sporting' bullets. If it was legal, of course, but it isn't most everywhere, so scratch that comment ...

And, of course, of course, 5.56x45mm would not be my first choice for deer anyway...

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Old June 03, 2019, 20:57   #10
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What twist is the barrel?
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Old June 03, 2019, 21:04   #11
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What twist is the barrel?
It should make no difference from a 20in HBAR. While 1/12 would be optimal for 55gr, 1/7 and 1/9 will usually shoot it just fine too...

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Old June 03, 2019, 21:06   #12
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Shit, if I'd known we were talking about shooting coyotes, I'd have suggested something other than M193 (unless the range is close).
And, hagar, I missed the initial comment about 300 yards for coyotes...

That's on me and I apologize for this comment...

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Old June 04, 2019, 16:13   #13
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I just zeroed my newest rifle last week with these. I'm running a 16" SS,Hbar, barrel with mid- length gas. Chambered in .223 Wylde. At a hundred yards they were right at 1.5" for 5 shot groups. This was with an Eotech. Might have been able to squeeze a bit better out of actual crosshairs. I think if I were going to go for longer range, that I would probably want a slightly heavier bullet. For coyotes, I think I might also try a soft point or a hollow point. Otherwise, like WEG said, you will be tracking them.
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Old June 04, 2019, 16:35   #14
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For the record, I do use PSPs for actual coyotes, but this was virtually unplanned as I was going to his house for other reasons and just grabbed a couple of other pre-loaded mags and the rifle to use his range while I was there.

In hindsight, I also had a mag of 10 PSPs with me that stay in the rifle which I should have tried while I was there, but the grouping was so disappointing I gave up quickly until I can do it again with more variety of ammo and a second HB for comparison.
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Old June 04, 2019, 21:50   #15
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Iím in the process of purging all magazine-length 5.56 that isnít 75-grain Hornady Match bullets. The Hornadys are the absolute best choice where value:accuracy is the standard, and where all firing is inside 300 yards. If you have to shoot magazine-length ammo at greater than 300 yards go with the higher-priced 77 Sierra MatchKing. You can push the 77 SMK a little harder without as much risk of shedding the jacket. The 80 SMK is hard to beat if you can load longer than magazine.

Life is too short to shoot crappy ammo.
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Old June 04, 2019, 22:24   #16
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I like XM193 for general use

I stock XM193 for shooting in my SP1s. I think itís good for itís original military application, man sized targets out to moderate range. I shoot black hills if Iím shooting for small groups. I say lifeís too short to limit oneself to top shelf ammo. XM193 works great on junked cars, boats and school busses at Creek and keeps the bill reasonable with no fear of out of spec cheapo foreign milsurp causing an issue. I like it for stockpile purposes as well.
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Old June 06, 2019, 18:05   #17
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UPDATE:

I had some time this afternoon and looked over the upper closely which I bought used and fully assembled. I am far, far, far from an AR expert, but in addition to the barrel nut being loose, I can safely say this is the most F'ed up assembly of an upper I have personally laid eyes on. The 3 MOA is not necessarily the ammo.

The new Vortex glass will move over to a Colt HB, the jury is still out on the ammo, and this particular AR will go back on the "project" shelf for another rainy day
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Old June 07, 2019, 00:08   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Invictus77 View Post
UPDATE:

I had some time this afternoon and looked over the upper closely which I bought used and fully assembled. I am far, far, far from an AR expert, but in addition to the barrel nut being loose, I can safely say this is the most F'ed up assembly of an upper I have personally laid eyes on. The 3 MOA is not necessarily the ammo.

The new Vortex glass will move over to a Colt HB, the jury is still out on the ammo, and this particular AR will go back on the "project" shelf for another rainy day
Well, a loose nut will cause problems on anything.
Glad you found that out, it might have gotten ugly.

Who assembled the upper?
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Old June 11, 2019, 18:06   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Invictus77 View Post
I went to a friend's farm yesterday who has a range set-up out to 1,000 yards. My own purpose was to sight in a new Vortex scope on a 20" HB AR at 300 yards for coyotes.

It was shooting a 2.5-3 MOA group which was very disappointing. I only took the one rifle and one brand of ammo with me. I will do this again and at this point I cannot rule out the rifle just yet, but my gut tells me it is probably the ammo.

It was American Eagle XM193 which I picked up cheap a couple years ago. It has been fine for steel plate banging on my home 100 yard range and it just happened to be what I grabbed yesterday.

Anyone else had any experience with this ammo, good or bad?
Have shot many 1000s thru my Colt M-16over the years.No problems at all.
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