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Old October 12, 2017, 00:10   #1
Falfan2017
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Would you be willing to make this tradeoff?

Standardized carry license that has reciprocity in all 50 states. However anybody that does not have the license has to have a background check done to buy a gun even from a non ffl private transaction.

Thoughts?
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Old October 12, 2017, 00:18   #2
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Nope....

I don't bargain...

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Old October 12, 2017, 00:23   #3
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Nope....

I don't bargain...


Exactly this
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Old October 12, 2017, 02:07   #4
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No.
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Old October 12, 2017, 02:48   #5
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Why is someone always looking for a way to diminish my rights?

No, my rights are non negotiable.

I carry anyway!
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Old October 12, 2017, 06:54   #6
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"the gun show loophole" I believe will lead to registration and liability. Everyones going to need insurance.
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Old October 12, 2017, 07:31   #7
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No. Never compromise away your rights.
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Old October 12, 2017, 07:39   #8
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No on principle. Pragmatically, we would gain the reciprocity and we already have the background check requirement in most jurisdictions, so technically it would be a net positive. I just don't condone more legalese paper on the books.
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Old October 12, 2017, 07:56   #9
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You're dreaming. No way that shitcago and new yawk shitty and other jurisdictions are going to allow you to bring guns
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Old October 12, 2017, 08:04   #10
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How about constitutional carry in all 50 states by any adult (adult = age for enlistment in military) not currently in jail, on probation, on parole, or adjudicated mentally incompetent.

Firearms may be purchased over the counter with no paperwork at all.

You know - like a free country would do.
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Old October 12, 2017, 08:38   #11
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Originally Posted by gunplumber View Post
How about constitutional carry in all 50 states by any adult (adult = age for enlistment in military) not currently in jail, on probation, on parole, or adjudicated mentally incompetent.

Firearms may be purchased over the counter with no paperwork at all.

You know - like a free country would do.
^ This, including Class III also.
If we are good to go with carrying firearms nationwide, then why should there be barriers to ownership of suppressors, full auto, et al?
In other words, repeal of NFA34 and whatnot.
I'm a dreamer, I know it.
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Old October 12, 2017, 09:44   #12
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Originally Posted by gunplumber View Post
How about constitutional carry in all 50 states by any adult (adult = age for enlistment in military) not currently in jail, on probation, on parole, or adjudicated mentally incompetent.

Firearms may be purchased over the counter with no paperwork at all.

You know - like a free country would do.
Gunplumber for President
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Old October 12, 2017, 10:50   #13
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I would do it, gladly.

Why? When I moved to the US in 1984, there was almost NO place in the US where you could even GET a ccw permit, never mind carry without them. You could buy handguns, but not carry them. So much for the constitution.

Only the inroads made by states slowly turning around and accepting ccw has made it better. This is a logical progression.
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Old October 12, 2017, 11:59   #14
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I would do it, gladly.

Why? When I moved to the US in 1984, there was almost NO place in the US where you could even GET a ccw permit, never mind carry without them. You could buy handguns, but not carry them. So much for the constitution.

Only the inroads made by states slowly turning around and accepting ccw has made it better. This is a logical progression.
And, as soon as you agree to a deal like this, they'll turn around and pull the reciprocity part...

And your license to do so...

It's not like your 'trustworthy' politicians haven't traveled that route before, you know.

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Old October 12, 2017, 13:22   #15
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Originally Posted by gunplumber View Post
How about constitutional carry in all 50 states by any adult (adult = age for enlistment in military) not currently in jail, on probation, on parole, or adjudicated mentally incompetent.

Firearms may be purchased over the counter with no paperwork at all.

You know - like a free country would do.
So simple.





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Old October 12, 2017, 13:31   #16
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I would consider this compromise. Decentralization of the US military. All hardware owned and operated by the local national guard post, all men of military age legally required to keep a select fire current issue rifle in their residence with 60 rounds of ammunition along with monthly training exercises. Then I would consider it.
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Old October 12, 2017, 13:33   #17
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Call them NFA weapons call them Title II weapons but when you call it Class 3 it just sounds ignorant as Class 3 describes the dealer not the weapons.

Not trying to be picky just figure those that talk about these things want to sound intelligent to the masses that are or have the potential to view here.




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^ This, including Class III also.
If we are good to go with carrying firearms nationwide, then why should there be barriers to ownership of suppressors, full auto, et al?
In other words, repeal of NFA34 and whatnot.
I'm a dreamer, I know it.
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Old October 12, 2017, 13:39   #18
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No, no, and no. As was said before, Constitutional Carry in all 50 States. Any step towards that goal would be welcomed by me, but not at the expense of another right being whittled away.
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Old October 12, 2017, 13:47   #19
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No, because in the end they will use those lists. The last head of the Justice department was making sure those CCW permits were in the files. With those files, your financial future is in there hands. Remember in Red Dawn the first thing the commander wanted done. Maybe a movie but a bit of truth to it. Just look at NYC.
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Old October 12, 2017, 13:49   #20
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I would consider this compromise. Decentralization of the US military. All hardware owned and operated by the local national guard post, all men of military age legally required to keep a select fire current issue rifle in their residence with 60 rounds of ammunition along with monthly training exercises. Then I would consider it.
Even me as a "furriner" see that as a colossal cave. No bloody way! Tell me you're joking, you gotta be?

I've long said that people should have recurrent firearms training, especially for select fire weapons, and walking around with stuff, but you're idea is a real step towards confiscation.
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Old October 12, 2017, 13:51   #21
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No, because in the end they will use those lists. The last head of the Justice department was making sure those CCW permits were in the files. With those files, your financial future is in there hands. Remember in Red Dawn the first thing the commander wanted done. Maybe a movie but a bit of truth to it. Just look at NYC.
In Texas, they say the cops don't know if you have a CHL, but how can they not? It's a Government form of ID here.
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Old October 12, 2017, 14:11   #22
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How about constitutional carry in all 50 states by any adult (adult = age for enlistment in military) not currently in jail, on probation, on parole, or adjudicated mentally incompetent.

Firearms may be purchased over the counter with no paperwork at all.

You know - like a free country would do.
I've heard some batting a similar idea around....give a yard and take a mile. Requiring a mental health check (with an appeals process) combined with a Constitutional "shall issue" for a national one-size-covers-all-rights for a gun ID card will give a lot of folks pause though. But no more paperwork on any guns (including cross state transactions) and 50 state concealed carry. And get rid of the Hughes Amendment.

If Paddock was the actual shooter and not a patsy, I doubt he would have been able to pass a mental health exam.
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Old October 12, 2017, 15:27   #23
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Of course, the inherent problem is who establishes the "mental health" criteria, and who determines if an individual meets them ? After all, it's not as if the medical profession is the most conservative group of folks, much less the most objective.

Again, in principle I really like the idea. However, as we all know, the devil is in the details.
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Old October 12, 2017, 15:36   #24
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Call them NFA weapons call them Title II weapons but when you call it Class 3 it just sounds ignorant as Class 3 describes the dealer not the weapons.

Not trying to be picky just figure those that talk about these things want to sound intelligent to the masses that are or have the potential to view here.
Thanks. It annoys the crap out of me too.
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Old October 12, 2017, 15:55   #25
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Old October 12, 2017, 16:39   #26
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I've heard some batting a similar idea around....give a yard and take a mile. Requiring a mental health check (with an appeals process) combined with a Constitutional "shall issue" for a national one-size-covers-all-rights for a gun ID card will give a lot of folks pause though. But no more paperwork on any guns (including cross state transactions) and 50 state concealed carry. And get rid of the Hughes Amendment.

If Paddock was the actual shooter and not a patsy, I doubt he would have been able to pass a mental health exam.
You and other fine folks are missing things:

ADJUDICATED meaning you have been judged mentally incompetent by a Court.

Like it or not, under our system imposed by the 1968 GCA you can be mad as a hatter and remain lawful to possess firearms.

In the 90s the Clintons attempted to stretch this to include panel based declarations of mental illness by the military, bunch of vets in Nevada were raided and disarmed using VA records. After the VFW and Legion got involved it was stopped RFN.

If you have been legally found a nutter in a Court room I'm fine with you not being allowed to own weapons, a car, etc.
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Old October 12, 2017, 21:10   #27
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In NYS you have to get a NICS check even for a ftf sale.

You cannot even hold a pistol in your hand, unless you have a Pistol Permit. Each pistol sale has to be examined by the NICS, the POPE, the Local Pistol Permit Office and the NYSP, and then you can take possession of the pistol.

Plenty of stings out there by ATF and local cops, trying to grab the unwary, trying to avoid the NICS.

You mean it is different out there, somewhere? I just recertified my Pistol ownership Permit, and for each gun I own, to the NYSP.
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Old October 12, 2017, 22:51   #28
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In NYS you have to get a NICS check even for a ftf sale.

You cannot even hold a pistol in your hand, unless you have a Pistol Permit. Each pistol sale has to be examined by the NICS, the POPE, the Local Pistol Permit Office and the NYSP, and then you can take possession of the pistol.

Plenty of stings out there by ATF and local cops, trying to grab the unwary, trying to avoid the NICS.

You mean it is different out there, somewhere? I just recertified my Pistol ownership Permit, and for each gun I own, to the NYSP.
Wow that sounds terrible. What happens if you move to ny and already own guns?
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Old October 12, 2017, 23:39   #29
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Wow that sounds terrible. What happens if you move to ny and already own guns?
Don't...

I say that as an ex-New Yorker.

Then again, move to Colorado and you will also have to background every transfer, including ftf...

And it's even worse than that...

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Old October 13, 2017, 04:37   #30
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Nope....

I don't bargain...

^^^ This.
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Old October 13, 2017, 08:35   #31
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You and other fine folks are missing things:

ADJUDICATED meaning you have been judged mentally incompetent by a Court.

Like it or not, under our system imposed by the 1968 GCA you can be mad as a hatter and remain lawful to possess firearms.

In the 90s the Clintons attempted to stretch this to include panel based declarations of mental illness by the military,
Yeah, I think any vet receiving disability payments for PTSD should be considered "adjudicated". Too f-cked up to handle your own affairs without a handout from your fellow citizens? Then you are certainly too f-cked up to possess a gun. Common sense, that, but all these entitled veterans will wail and moan that they somehow deserve to have guns while receiving compensation payments for their mentally illness.
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Old October 13, 2017, 09:29   #32
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Yeah, I think any vet receiving disability payments for PTSD should be considered "adjudicated". Too f-cked up to handle your own affairs without a handout from your fellow citizens? Then you are certainly too f-cked up to possess a gun. Common sense, that, but all these entitled veterans will wail and moan that they somehow deserve to have guns while receiving compensation payments for their mentally illness.
That's going to be a really unpopular stance, but I agree 100%.
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Old October 13, 2017, 09:36   #33
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Yeah, I think any vet receiving disability payments for PTSD should be considered "adjudicated". Too f-cked up to handle your own affairs without a handout from your fellow citizens? Then you are certainly too f-cked up to possess a gun. Common sense, that, but all these entitled veterans will wail and moan that they somehow deserve to have guns while receiving compensation payments for their mentally illness.
ya bastidge Hard Ass

but yeah I tend to agree that if you are taking the peoples coin for mental illness you become self ajudicated.

The deal in Nevada was completely different though
those were just Men who had conditions such as "battle fatigue" and ended up in a military Hospital. Don't know if any of them were taking VA disability payments. I do recall one was a WWII vet, a rancher. Not a sad sack type or burden on society.

These days there are just a hot mess of assholes on the VA dole claiming PTSD, particularly females. Quite a number were never even deployed.
I researched this awhile back in an attempt to understand how a buddies son was clearing close to 2K in just VA bennies a month. Kid never set foot in a combat zone. He just sits in his efficiency apartment playing video games, surfing the web and watching pay per view.
Not a damn thing wrong with him either
latest I heard from his father was the kid was working on buying a house through some shit assed VA program for the "disabled"

I'm all for and about support our Vets but some are abusing it as a military form of the ole Ghetto Lottery.
So I am mostly with you.
I have seen this abuse first hand.

it can get super crazy if the Vet is a mother with bastard children, talking thousands in bennies a month, even more with VA educational and/or business development grants and almost no interest loans
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Old October 13, 2017, 10:21   #34
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That's going to be a really unpopular stance, but I agree 100%.
maybe so but it should be seen as a confessional adjudication Ted.

These are folks who freely admit they are nutters, some just to get a check.

If you actually are such a bad nutter that you deserve governmental support it's probably fine that you are disarmed and riding the back of the local short bus.

Same deal if you are scamming, maybe more so.

I'm sorry, as it is diagnosed today often times I can't support normal rights for nutters that adjudicate themselves.
Actions have consequences.
If you are truly a wackaloon drowning yourself with hot medz for your head no one wants you behind the wheel, much less all gunned up.
Basically accepting support payments I see as fast tracking ones self to formal ajudication of primary mental illness.

For example one guy I grew up with managed to obtain full disability payments after the third time the State sent him to inpatient treatment over DUIs. Not seen him for over a decade but back in the 90s at one point he was taking in over $1500.00 CASH a month
yeah, for being a drunk.
worst part was he wasn't.

Asshole rarely drank but when he did he was blacked out stupid behind the wheel
Out of four DUI, the last two he was found sleeping in his car outside a club.
that's still DUI if you have keys here, called APC, at least once he had weed on him too. By 89' he was certified as "disabled"
He just hunted, trapped and fished after that

Pretty sure that form of disability is down to under $800 cash a month now in MoneySota.
Of course that's the cash allowance. These days here it's dumped on the State EBT card. That's why cashiers at grocery stores will inquire "Cash Back" ?
Started with EBT

anyways, I'm fine with restricting the "rights" of the self admitted crazies or those ajudicated through the Court system. That's my absolute boundry though.
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Old October 13, 2017, 10:29   #35
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Yeah, I think any vet receiving disability payments for PTSD should be considered "adjudicated". Too f-cked up to handle your own affairs without a handout from your fellow citizens? Then you are certainly too f-cked up to possess a gun. Common sense, that, but all these entitled veterans will wail and moan that they somehow deserve to have guns while receiving compensation payments for their mentally illness.
I hate to say it, but +1 here....lots of abuses.

I met a guy a few months ago that did a tour and got out with a VA PTSD 100% disability...Didnt say what he said he gets for that, but he was telling me all about working 60hr weeks installing dishes for dish network and ONLY making like 2k a week...
I asked him, WHERE CAN I APPLY !!!????
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Old October 13, 2017, 11:13   #36
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I know a Marine Vietnam Vet, who filed for PTSD payments from the VA, and got it after a long investigation.
He claimed he was still bush crazy, and was also working for the USPS.

He fears he cannot pass a NICS check and buy a gun anymore.
I suspect he may be right.

This year, every white NYS pistol permit holder has to recertify. Re-certification is only good for the next 5 years. Remember, you cannot even own or buy a handgun in NYS without a permit; a permit that is not generally available to blacks or minorites, due to old regulations against minorities and anarchists.

I was # 320,xxx, in July, out of 2millon plus permit holders. Probably many old permitees are dead or moved out of state.
I pray that the SCOTUS finally buries our gun laws.

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Old October 14, 2017, 08:09   #37
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Originally Posted by gunplumber View Post

Firearms may be purchased over the counter with no paperwork at all.

You know - like a free country would do.
This is what always drives me crazy about buying guns at retail is the stupidity
of having done the work to get cleared to carry a handgun and yet I have to repeatedly fill out all this paperwork. It simply makes no sense unless you are
a democrat or beauracrat looking to creat a database. Btw they are busy doing
that.....you don't think they sit around and go thru all those boxes of 4473s from
gun shops they forced to close to find a stolen gun do you?
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Old October 16, 2017, 21:00   #38
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I've heard some batting a similar idea around....give a yard and take a mile. Requiring a mental health check (with an appeals process) combined with a Constitutional "shall issue" for a national one-size-covers-all-rights for a gun ID card will give a lot of folks pause though. But no more paperwork on any guns (including cross state transactions) and 50 state concealed carry. And get rid of the Hughes Amendment.

If Paddock was the actual shooter and not a patsy, I doubt he would have been able to pass a mental health exam.
That is the flaw in your thinking...that a citizen must just pass some test and it will all be safe and ok. No, it will never be safe to have an armed citizenry and innocent people will die because we do. Ten percent of our people have no business handling a firearm but they have every right to do so. When I consider most of the women I know, that 10% estimate goes up considerably. And the people we least trust with firearms will ignore the law anyway. However, this undesirable condition is better than the alternative, which is the inevitable rise of tyranny and the slaughter of millions while we sit and watch, helpless and unarmed.

No gun law will make you safer. Get this through your thick phuckin' skulls.
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Old October 16, 2017, 22:38   #39
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What I would do doesn't much matter.

The kids these days will have to sort these things out.

Old guys are still gonna do what they want to do until somebody catches them, or stops them, or if finding clean drawers become a superseding priority.

Look at what's happening all around us, and you have a pretty good idea what's coming.
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Old October 16, 2017, 22:39   #40
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What I would do doesn't much matter.

The kids these days will have to sort these things out.

Old guys are still gonna do what they want to do until somebody catches them, or stops them, or until finding clean drawers becomes a superseding priority.

Look at what's happening all around us, and you have a pretty good idea what's coming.
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Old October 17, 2017, 00:19   #41
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Originally Posted by gunplumber View Post
How about constitutional carry in all 50 states by any adult (adult = age for enlistment in military) not currently in jail, on probation, on parole, or adjudicated mentally incompetent.

Firearms may be purchased over the counter with no paperwork at all.

You know - like a free country would do.
^^^^^^^^^^There it IS. Fair and Un-infringing, If the gun grabbers keep going, I'm sure they can start the civil War that no sane person want's, So at that time I will begin scalping LIVE if possible until I have 5 miles of scalps, Hang on to yer hats Polyticians.
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