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Old August 24, 2003, 13:20   #201
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Mark - thanks for the data. I've seen lots of these Egyptians either missing the disc, or with some sort of replacement disc - sometimes made of steel, sometimes brass. Also, you often see these replacement discs fixed with a slotted head screw. I don't know if that happened in Egypt ... or here.

What FN-49 wall charts do you have? The same as sold by Northridge (about 4' wide by 3' tall)?

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Old August 24, 2003, 13:44   #202
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Thats about the size of them, although I was unaware northridge was selling them - I thought I had chanced on something unique. Darn!
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Old September 02, 2003, 21:21   #203
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My thanks to the Mods for "topping" this thread.

Now, we had 6 rifles reported in August. We should be able to beat that for September ...... can't we?

I'm doing my part - I've got TWO inbound via BBT so we only need data on 5 more rifles to beat last months total !

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Old September 07, 2003, 20:45   #204
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UPDATE - the Goose has 2 more inbound thereby establishing my all-time record of 4 FN-49s inbound at the same time ..... it's obviously been a good month !

Now, we still need data on 3 more rifles to beat last month's total.

Anybody got an FN-49 waaaaaaay back in the corner of the safe that they haven't reported yet? If so, that baby needs to be checked out, wiped down .... and while your at it - capture some data for the 'ole Goose !



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Old September 08, 2003, 06:17   #205
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I've got a couple more for you from an estate

no crests, crowns or any other marks other then the FN address on the right hand side of the receiver. Woodwork is serial numbered to the rest of the rifle and the butt plate has a trap in it. Has stock reinforcing bolt
30-06
S/N 52437 (I think this is correct I've lost my piece of paper)

7mm
Venezuelan National Crest
S/N 908
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Old September 08, 2003, 09:37   #206
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Kevin - As always, thanks for the assist.

The "unmarked" rifle is from the Belgian contract. I have only limited information on why the receiver ring crest was scrubbed but it appears that MANY of the Belgian contract rifles were so modified. OTOH, I have reports of "crested" rifles in Italy, Canada, Luxembourg, and other places (including a few reports in the U.S.) so at least SOME rifles were released with the crest intact. I have two Belgian contract rifles in my collection and both are scubbed. Still looking for a "crested" rifle myself.

Since the Venezuelan contract was the first FN-49 production contract, the Vennie that you report is the 908th production FN-49 made (out of some 176,000 rifles) !


Thanks again,

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Old September 16, 2003, 23:45   #207
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OK - the Goose has received 4 rifles this month and entered that data ... Kevin gave me data on two more .... is there at least ONE more new FN-49 out there so we can beat last month's total !



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Old September 17, 2003, 19:59   #208
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Quote:
Originally posted by Goose52
OK - the Goose has received 4 rifles this month and entered that data ... Kevin gave me data on two more .... is there at least ONE more new FN-49 out there so we can beat last month's total !



Goose
How about the possibility of data...
I sold a midrange Egyptie last Jan as I didn't care for 8mm.
Currently have a Venusian on layaway at the neighborhood gun shop. I'll get specifics at next visit if that helps.
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Old September 17, 2003, 23:16   #209
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The "possibility of data" is a good thing ... the survey is not going anyplace and if/when you get your rifle ..... I'll be here !

Thanks!

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Old September 21, 2003, 00:26   #210
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Goose52
[B]The "possibility of data" is a good thing ... the survey is not going anyplace and if/when you get your rifle ..... I'll be here !

Thanks!


< G >
The Venusian is pretty, #2**2 on the upper, #2**7 on the lower- presumably 4 digit puts it early in the contract. It didn't seem appropriate to tear it down in the store, but bolt appears to be w/no cut.
Where's a good place to look for an original style scope mount?

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Old September 21, 2003, 10:36   #211
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cochisetexas - Thanks for the preliminary report. Not sure I know what you mean by "upper" and "lower" (sounds like AR-15 speak!). I think you saw one serial number on the receiver cover and the other serial number on the receiver, and they are off by 5 numbers?

Unless someone has installed an Egyptian 8mm bolt, the bolt in this rifle WILL be cut for the Venezuelan-style firing pin safety stop.

There were only 8000 Venezuelan contract rifles made in two variants - the "early" and "late" variants. Your rifle is right in the middle of the "early" variant range (Serial Number 1 to around 4000).

While all of the Venezuelan contract rifles had the scope cut, there is no firm evidence that Venezuela ever rigged any of their rifles as snipers. I do have 3 Vennie "snipers" in the data base that all have an unusual small-knob Echo mount and all have 40's/50's vintage German scopes installed. However, I have no evidence of whether this was done while in Venezuelan service or whether this equipment was installed by the importer or a retailer to increase the sales margin on the rifles. Anyway, this is a long-winded way of saying that if there was an "original" mount for the Vennies - it was this really rare small-knob Echo mount.

Now, a mount that will work comes with the FN-49 scope rigs sold by Northridge and Sarco (in these sets, the scope itself was used on Belgian-contract snipers, the base, mount, and rings assemblies were used on both Belgium and Luxembourg-contract snipers). The rigs sell for $795 retail. You can occasionally find just the base, mount, and rings for around $300. This rig is shown in the bottom picture up on post # 186 of this thread. Keep in mind that if you go this route, the base normally WILL shift in recoil unless you take measures to anchor it down. The military used various bonding, soldering, peening/staking, and even weld to hold the mount on. Also keep in mind that installing this base on your rifle WILL damage the paint ....

HTH

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Old September 22, 2003, 20:27   #212
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Yo Goose-
- Thanks for the preliminary report. Not sure I know what you mean by "upper" and "lower" (sounds like AR-15 speak!). I think you saw one serial number on the receiver cover and the other serial number on the receiver, and they are off by 5 numbers?

>AR my butt! I've been building FALs for the last 3 years and I speak middle FN- somewhere between the -49 and the FNC. So that's the rec cover, huh? Yes to the numbers being off by 5- when I pay it off I'll tear it all down and see what's what.

Unless someone has installed an Egyptian 8mm bolt, the bolt in this rifle WILL be cut for the Venezuelan-style firing pin safety stop.

>I'll be interested to see how they do it.

Now, a mount that will work comes with the FN-49 scope rigs sold by Northridge and Sarco - The rigs sell for $795 retail. You can occasionally find just the base, mount, and rings for around $300. This rig is .. normally WILL shift in recoil unless you take measures to anchor it down. The military used various bonding, soldering, peening/staking, and even weld to hold the mount on. Also keep in mind that installing this base on your rifle WILL damage the paint ....

>If this rifle performs as well as I expect it to- it seems to be low mileage and non-abused- it will be a keeper. For that kind of money, I believe I will make one on the pattern of the illustration- I think I can eliminate the drift... The paint is...paint. Tell me - is it blastphemous to think of parkerizing it?

C/T
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Old September 22, 2003, 21:02   #213
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Well, it will be your property and you can do with it what you will .... but if you do park the rifle it will loose most of it's collector value that it may have had and will be valued as a shooter only. As an example, a 99% kinda Vennie could go (and they have gone) for $800 on up - park the same rifle and all of a sudden it's a $500 rifle (to a collector). If the condition of this rifle is relatively poor ... then you may have nothing to loose.

There were few of these made, and even fewer remain in original condition, so to a collector, taking an original condition rifle and altering it is considered poor form ....

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Old September 22, 2003, 21:37   #214
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Quote:
Originally posted by Goose52
Well, it will be your property and you can do with it what you will .... but if you do park the rifle it will loose most of it's collector value that it may have had and will be valued as a shooter only. As an example, a 99% kinda Vennie could go (and they have gone) for $800 on up - park the same rifle and all of a sudden it's a $500 rifle (to a collector). If the condition of this rifle is relatively poor ... then you may have nothing to loose.

There were few of these made, and even fewer remain in original condition, so to a collector, taking an original condition rifle and altering it is considered poor form ....

Goose
Hmmm. Poor form- drat. Spoilsport! Never having considered myself a collector perhaps I am exempted. If there is a real possibility of the unit being valuable to a collector I spose the original condition is ok- it's maybe an 80% weapon now, with nice rifling and like zero throat erosion. When I tear it down I should be able to determine exactly how original it all is.
The only other painted weapons I have had were SMLE's. A nice parkerizing job on a Mk 1 and a Mk 4 both seemed to increase their value when I was tired of them. Got significantly more for them than I paid 2 years previously.

I;ll post you when I can evaluate the Venusian.
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Old September 27, 2003, 02:19   #215
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Ok sorry for the late entry, Here it goes:
Egpytian FN 49
S/N # 3673X
Crown
Possible scope rail ???
No cross bolt in stock
No mid- swivel
no firing pin safety stop cut-out
Bolt s/n matches Rec'vr
Rec'vr Has the "L" with a star above it, while bolt has "H" with a star above it.
Missing ID disc.
Brass butt plate
Underside of stock behind the trigger guard has the letters K&X with something unreadable above it.

That all folks.
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Old September 27, 2003, 14:30   #216
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There are different types of collectors. Some are more concerned with original than condition. Others are more concerned with condition than original.

Like my "garand" collection includes many new commercial barrels, and some commercial stocks. All are refinished and in perfect condition - just not original. It pleases me more to have a representative sample of a gun type in perfect condition than to have an all-original beat up rifle.

I can refinish your Venie in original style for $200 including return shipping. Thats paint over park, with masking and bare mtal per original.

I ahve a 100% unfired original venie, but it has some rust on the bare-matal butplate. Hmmm. What to do. Any attempt to remove the rust will alter the otherwise brite butplate.

But rust is ugly.


even steel wool wioll darken it.
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Old September 27, 2003, 18:28   #217
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SJetwrench - Thanks for the report. You have a high number rifle right near the end of production.

Mark - Like I said, I don't go around and tell folks what to do, or not do, with their rifles. But - when asked my opinion I will usually give the same answer as I did above. The question was park - a non-original finish. Your proposal, paint over park, matches the original spec ... but now we're talking about a restoration, not THE original FN applied finish. This changes the value for me as compared to an original rifle - but I would value a "restored" or a rifle refinished to the original spec, higher that a rifle that has a non-original finish.

I actually do own several rifles that have been repainted - 1 is my beater Egyptian that I use as my plinker, but 2 others are reasonably rare (Argy and Colombian) and they are only "placeholders" in my collection until an adequate original rifle comes along.

I think that part of the issue is that we're talking about rifles that are not necessarily really rare, nor are they yet really very old - so people will perhaps be inclined to go for a nice appearance rather than originality. Also we're discussing the issue in a forum that specializes in building rifles from mixed parts - a mixmaster or mongrel in some collecting circles. That then means that many folks will have a certain perspective on this issue that may differ from collectors in other disciplines. Were you to ask an advanced collector of Lugers, Colt's SAAs, 19th Century Winchesters, etc. about the difference in value between an original firearm, and one refinished to look like new, I think you know what answer you would get.

But - it's a free country and folks may do as they wish ! And on your Vennie with the corrosion on the buttplate, I'd try some 0000 steel wool (maybe three 'ought to give more of a brushed appearance

BTW - I just sent you an email on an unrelated subject.

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Old September 30, 2003, 19:34   #218
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Well, September is just about over and we got only 6 rifles this month ... tying last month. Kevin gave me data on two ... and the 'ole Goose had to go out and buy 4 rifles his ownself ! My FN-49 warchest is going to be seriously depleted for a while so NEXT month ... somebody ELSE has to buy some FN-49s !

I'm at 876 rifles so that 900 barrier is getting close ... howzabout some help !



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Old October 07, 2003, 00:40   #219
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1245X Egyptian
with crown
with safety on the bolt does not match
it does have ID disc
no scope rail
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Old October 07, 2003, 17:27   #220
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Confed Pirate - Thanks for the data ... that puts me up to 880 rifles.

Getting close to 900 and that 1,000 rifle goal I set nearly 2 years ago is within reach !

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Old October 15, 2003, 19:45   #221
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I just purchased the following FN-49 in 30-06.

Colombian Crest
Serial # - 039X
Dovetailed for scope
Ridged steel buttplate - no trap
has crossbolt

The finish is a black paint.
I hope this is helpful. Any info you can give me would be appreciated.
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Old October 16, 2003, 18:32   #222
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calvinike - Thanks for the report - it's always good to get more info on the Colombians.

Your rifle has the correct features and is just a bit below mid-range as there were only 1000 rifles in the Colombian contract.

You should strip your bolt to see if you have a 1-pc or 2-pc firing pin. It's strongly recommended that every FN-49 run the 2-pc pin set-up in order to reduce the likelihood of slam-fires that can occasionally occur in the event of breakage of the long 1-piece firing pin.

Thanks again,

Goose

Last edited by Goose52; October 16, 2003 at 22:27.
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Old October 16, 2003, 20:23   #223
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Talking FN49

Here you go Mr Goose

FN49 Egypian 8MM Finish black paint over park
SN: 674X
Stock walnut with brass butplate and brass unit disc, arsenal repaired
two piece handguards.
no muzzle break
non welded tread protector full lenght
bolt is sloted for firing pin stop (Need one)
numbers do not match on bolt but has arabic numbers
two piece firing pin
no third swivel
receiver is sloted for scope mount


After reading all these posts I'm kinda scared to shoot it.
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Old October 16, 2003, 22:36   #224
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1972Doug - Thanks for the excellent report. The rifles in the 6000 serial number range are the only early rifles with the scope cut. There is a small run of scope-cut rifles in the 16000 range, then you go all the way to about 27000 and then they all have the scope cut until end of production at 37000 or so.

On shooting your rifle, you have the 2-pc pin so that's good. Make sure that you use military-spec ammo or if you handload, use a CCI #34 primer. Always feed the rifle from the magazine (with the bolt stripping the round from the mag.) Don't place a round in the chamber and hit the bolt release.

Also, since you have a non-matching bolt, you should get your headspace checked.

Thanks again,

Goose
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Old October 21, 2003, 23:23   #225
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OK - three new rifles so far this month ... can we find at least 3 more ?



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Old October 26, 2003, 18:18   #226
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Hey Goose,
Here's one I picked up yesterday at the local gunshow:
Egyptian contract
8 x 57mm caliber
ser #: 3405X, all matching
Crown stamp
It is cut for the scope
It has the middle sling swivel
There is no reinforcing crossbolt
No firing pin safety stop
One piece firing pin.
It has a stock disc.
Thanks for doing this survey
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Old October 26, 2003, 18:35   #227
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Gopher - You have what I call the "3-swivel" variant ... only 2,500 of those made. It's a keeper ... don't let it get away.

Don't forget to order your 2-piece firing pin. GunParts/Numrich is the only outfit that has both pin sections in stock. Go to: http://www.e-gunparts.com/productsch...odel=1410z1949

Look for part numbers:
10 50450 Firing Pin, Rear
12 50460 Firing Pin, Front

I just ordered some more pins from them - they ship fast and I got 'em in 3 days.

Thanks again,

Goose
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Old October 29, 2003, 13:16   #228
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Red face Firing pin

Mr Goose
After posting my 8mm on your survey, I read in another post that you said to make sure your rear head of the firing pin had a slot for firing pin safety stop. I found a safety stop on the Sarco web store and ordered it, my question is how do you tell if your firing pin is slotted.

Thanks
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Old October 29, 2003, 13:57   #229
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Doug If you saw a post where I advised someone to check for a slotted rear pin section to work with the firing pin safety stop (FPSS), then that post was directed to the owner of a Venezuelan or 30-06 FN-49. The Egyptian contract FN-49s (8mm) were the only FN-49 contract that did NOT use an FPSS and therefore did NOT used slotted firing pins. Some of these Egyptian contract rifles were fitted with bolts that were milled for the Venezuelan-style FPSS (as shown in my Pic # 3 on the first post of this thread) but the FPSS was never installed.

According to your original survey data, you said that you had a bolt that looked like Pic #3 that had an Arabic serial number on it. If that’s correct, then you will NOT be able to install an FPSS as it uses the VERY hard to find Venezuelan “spring-style” FPSS. The part you will get from Sarco will just about definitely be the 30-06/7.65 “plate-style” FPSS which will not work in a bolt with the Vennie spring-style milling.

In addition, the milling in the bottom of the bolt carrier, that is critical in the proper operation of the FPSS, is different between the “spring” and “plate” style designs. So, even if you could figure out a way to make a plate-style FPSS work in the Vennie style bolt milling, you would still probably not have proper function unless you ALSO used a 30-06 bolt carrier.

If you get a pin with a slotted rear section, it will still work fine in the Egyptian bolt, but you will not be running an FPSS. Since the supply of rear pin sections WITH the slot appears to be just about gone, it’s probably unlikely that you will get a slotted one anyway. However, if you did get a slotted rear, you could probably make a few extra dollars by trading/selling it to an owner of a 30-06 or 7mm FN-49 that is looking for a slotted rear section.

Now, just to answer your original question, here’s what a 2-piece, slotted pin looks like:



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Old October 29, 2003, 14:41   #230
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Firing pin safety stop

Goose,
Thanks for the reply, I have disassembaled my bolt and it does not have a slotted firing pin and as for the stop, well next time I will ask questions before ordering things.

Thanks
Doug
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Old October 29, 2003, 16:34   #231
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Muzzle brake

Mr Goose,

You seem to be the most informed about FN49s, as previous posted my rifle has the orginal eqypian muzzle nut with flats and I would like to install the orginal muzzle break on it, do you know of any source for this item.

Thanks
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Old October 29, 2003, 20:55   #232
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Doug - The muzzle cap installed on your rifle IS the correct device for your rifle. The only Egyptian contract FN-49s that had the FN-produced muzzle brake were the fully-rigged Egyptian snipers .... probably less than a few hundred of the snipers were ever made. The only other usage of the FN brake was on all of the Venezuelan contract FN-49s.

Now, if you are still interested in installing the FN-produced brake, they are REALLY hard to find. There is no commercial source for these and your only hope is to find a private party with one to sell. I ran WTB ads on a number of different boards, offering from $75 to $100 for the FN brake ... and after several months I finally got one.

This is what you're looking for:



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Old October 30, 2003, 16:51   #233
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Gas adjustment

Goose

Once again thankyou for the information about the muzzle brake, now one more question on the rifle I have aquired, the gas adjustment sleeve was broken and I have ordered another. The question I have is that on the adjustment sleeve there is a series of holes, do these holes serve the same purpose as those on the fal. I guess what I'm trying to ask is just how do you adjust the gas sleeve. Also on the stock disc, is it a two piece affair. My rifle has a disc without screw and no markings but the disc has a hole that is threaded.

Thanks
Doug
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Old October 30, 2003, 18:57   #234
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The holes in the gas adjustment sleeve are designed to be engaged by a special spanner wrench. This wrench was also used to remove the various muzzle caps and the muzzle brake. If the sleeve has not become too gas fouled, it can usually adjusted by hand. Otherwise, it's handy to have the gas wrench (available from Northridge, maybe GunParts or Sarco but I haven't checked lately). If you question about how to adjust the gas was related to actually adjusting the gas for proper operation - go here: http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showt...threadid=90742

Not sure what you mean about the unit disc being a two piece? Do you mean 1) the disc and 2) the screw ? At any rate, here is what the disc looks like:



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Old October 31, 2003, 12:05   #235
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Stock disc and FPSS

Mr Goose,

Received my order from sarco and you are correct about FPSS, it is a slinder piece that appears to be for a sloted firing pin, quess I'm stuck with it, cost more to return than its worth. Now to the stock disc, as I said my stock has a disc inletted but not marked without the screw. When I asked if it was a two piece, I mean does it require another disc that sits ontop of unmarked one then retained with screw.

Thanks
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Old October 31, 2003, 12:54   #236
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The original disc is one, thick brass piece as shown in the pictures. If you remove this one piece disc from the stock, all you will see behind it is wood.

Sounds like someone stuck a brass washer or fabricated some sort of disc from brass sheet stock and stuck it in your stock ...

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Old October 31, 2003, 13:04   #237
1972Doug
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Stock disc

Dear Mr. Goose:

Thank you for your knowledge and quick anwsers.

Doug (tomball,Texas)
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Old November 05, 2003, 15:37   #238
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Hmmm - first we had a feeding frenzy of FN-49 owners desiring to purchase muzzle brakes. Now we have the new Argentine FN-49 import that's generating a number of posts.

I sure hope that this sudden emergence of current FN-49 owners and the interest being shown by would-be owners translates into additional survey data .... things have been awful slow lately !



Goose
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Old November 06, 2003, 13:32   #239
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3006

"AL" markings "LUX"

serial# 5593 all match

cut out for full auto in stock, refinished.

original finish ,warn in areas.
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Old November 06, 2003, 13:53   #240
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forgot to add

scope cut =yes

reinforcing crossbolt in the stock = yes

Does the rear guard screw (behind trigger guard)

have a small lock screw? = yes but the order is reversed, locking screw

towards clip.

handguard = 2 peice

Have a middle sling swivel located about 2" in front of the magazine? = fig.2

is located at front end of clip,inline with edge of clip.
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Old November 06, 2003, 14:27   #241
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3006fn - Welcome to FAL Files and thanks for the report on your Luxembourg contract FN-49.

Have Fun !

Goose
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Old November 07, 2003, 23:52   #242
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Goose,

Ordered the Argy this afternoon. Thanks for all the info today. Now I have to be PATIENT and wait for it to show up. (Patience is NOT one of my virtues!!) As soon as it gets here, I will inspect and get info together for you.

BTW - how many Argy's do you have so far? How many below serial number 100? How many with bayo with matching number? Just curious.
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Old November 08, 2003, 00:43   #243
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I have 50 Argentine contract rifles in the data base at present. Six of those are below 100. I do not survey for matching bayonets. However, the Aztec import from 95/96, and now this import, are the only FN-49 imports, of any contract, that I know of where there was the possibilty of getting a matching bayo.

I'm hoping that this latest import will double the number of Argentines in the data base.

Goose
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Old November 09, 2003, 12:36   #244
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here ya go Goose52. just brought this home.

Venezuelan Contract (7x57 chambering):

Serial number: 792x

has circular "Fuerzas Armadas Venezuela" cartouche

Does have the rear guard lock screw

Optional question: Have a 2-piece or 1-piece handguard? two piece

optional (extra) answer: some retarded, crooked-toothed beaver nawed on it. UGH!
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Old November 09, 2003, 13:21   #245
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Ouch ! Well, this was typical of what many of the folks did in the 50s and 60s when the milsurps were imported by the boat-load. The Vennies sold for as little as $69 back then and people thought they would "personalize" the rifles a bit. No one was thinking of how few of these were made or any other "collector" factors - it was just another shootin' iron ....

BTW, this is a "milestone" rifle as it is now the highest numbered Vennie in the data base.

Since this is the highest Vennie, and since you posted the pic showing the serial numbers anyway, can you share the last digit of the serial? Looks kinda like a "0"

Thanks,

Goose
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Old November 09, 2003, 13:30   #246
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goose52,
it's #7928
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Old November 09, 2003, 14:50   #247
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FALna45 - Thanks for the number. For now, you're the "top dog" on the Vennie totem pole !

Goose
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Old November 10, 2003, 09:04   #248
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Goose,

What is the lowest number Argy you have in the database?

I sure hope I have enough patience to wait for UPS to show up later this week. It's gonna be a loooooooooooooooooong week for me................
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Old November 10, 2003, 10:29   #249
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Lowest Argie so far is # 0017. I expect that to go a bit lower as a result of this latest import ...

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Old November 10, 2003, 13:30   #250
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Wow, that is great. Mine is 0063 (or so they tell me). I'll know more when it gets here.

As you continue to collect this info, what are your plans for your database?
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