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Old April 20, 2003, 15:31   #151
Goose52
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Wow - sounds nice! It should have the unit disc however so you have to wonder what the history is on the stock . . .

Ya gonna shoot it?

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Old April 20, 2003, 20:28   #152
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I think that I will probably not shoot it. The gun obviously was built during the time of King Farouk. It may never have been issued. It certainly is as nice as any I have ever seen.
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Old April 20, 2003, 21:04   #153
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All 37000+ of the FN-produced Egyptian contract rifles were built during King Farouk's reign . . . hence the monarchical crown crest. The Egyptian contract was probably complete by 1951. Farouk abdicated in 1952 and the monarchy was disolved in 1953.

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Old April 21, 2003, 05:30   #154
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I thought the Eagle crest was Nasser's time as the Egyptian Republic or United Arab Republic?
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Old April 21, 2003, 07:22   #155
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That's why I said "FN-Produced" ! (I was wondering if the “Eagles” were going to be mentioned!)

The data is showing (so far) that there are only about 1,500 Eagle-crested rifles out there. The data is also showing that all of them were built here in the U.S. by Century from new, never used, spare receivers. There are NO all-matching "Eagles" out there and most have new barrels (not serial numbered to the receiver) and a mixture of Egyptian 8mm and Belgian 30-06 parts. Many are in the Century repro stocks but many are in Belgian-contract 30-06 stocks as well. Also, the Eagles have unique serial numbers with a “D” prefix that was not used by FN. There is not a single Eagle in the data base (out of 30) that gives any indication of ever having been assembled by FN.

The hypothesis is that these receivers were purchased by Egypt as spares, or perhaps with the intent of building complete rifles using their other spare parts. For whatever reason, they were never used (perhaps because the decision was made to produce the Hakim). As mentioned prior, the Egyptian contract was complete by around 1951 and the monarchy dissolved in 1953. So, given the Eagle-crest, these receivers would have been purchased sometime between mid-1953 out to mid-1956 when the FN-49 line was shut down. (I don't imagine that FN would have produced these receivers AFTER the line was closed down but it's possible I guess). At any rate, this WAS into the timeframe when Nasser took over from Nagiub, but perhaps prior to the formation of the UAR in 1958. Anyway, Century probably got these receivers as part of the deal when they bought the remaining Egyptian rifles and spares in the ‘80s and then they just built them in to rifles with the spare parts on hand including the aforementioned 30-06 parts.

The Eagle crest, BTW, is the "Eagle of Saladin" that was on the first Egyptian flag used after the monarchy was dissolved and is still used on the Egyptian flag to this day. Additionally, this symbol has been used by many other Arab nations over the past 1000 years or so.

The “Eagles” shoot as well as any FN-produced rifle, sometimes even better since most, if not all of them, were fitted with the new barrel. So, while not having a pure FN-pedigree, the “Eagles” are good shooters, and since there are only about 1,500 of them, are relatively rare and should probably be included in any comprehensive FN-49 collection.

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Old April 21, 2003, 10:11   #156
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Oh, my God! I have now seen everything! The end is near! Collectable Century Built Rifles, as a concept it is taking some time to get used to, believe me!
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Old April 21, 2003, 11:00   #157
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Bill - it REALLY is a strange concept, eh!

However, since the receivers are indeed FN-production, and have a unique crest, I believe that if you want to "collect the set" that an advanced FN-49 collector would need an Eagle in the collection.

Were this just the typical Century rebuilld - take a crown-crested receiver and start assembling with any & all parts on hand, then MHO is that there is NO collector value to those rifles - their only value is as shooters. However, due to the unique receiver crest, MHO is that these "Eagle" mongrels are something unusual or unique, and therefore have "collector" value.

I usually spend a lot of time discussing/explaining the Eagles to try to stop the typical Internet explanations that these were a RARE variant issued only to the Egyptian Presidential Guards or were part of a limited contract for some other Arab nation. The Arabic writing right under the Eagle crest reads "Egyptian Army" so we know they were intended for Egyptian service. The fact that there are absolutely NO correct, matching Eagles, and the preponderance of installed 30-06 parts support the hypothesis that they were built by Century.

Just trying to spread factual information . . .

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Old April 26, 2003, 18:03   #158
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Another Tulsa Show, small one this time, but spotted an FN-49 halfway across the room. Told the wife to watch my table, and went after it.

Came back with now ex-owner in tow.

Columbian Contract.

Serial number 0180, on receiver, top cover, barrel, bolt and carrier. ALL match.

Thread protector muzzle cap, dunno if welded, no appropriate tool to attempt removal.

Crossbolt in stock below receiver ring.

Locking screws present on all three main trigger group screws.

Upper handguard two piece, pieces match, but slightly darker than buttstock.

Low gloss finish on stock, no marks or cartouches anywhere.

Trapdoor buttplate.

Two piece firing pin, and firing pin safety.

Grooved for scope mount.

Bore and gas tube shiney and free from rust.

Overall finish on metal is too good, possibly arsenal or previous owner refinished, but is correct baked enamel.

OK, I got the 30-06 I wanted, and didn't even have to trade the Vennie off to get it.

Another keeper..???

You betcha...
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Old April 26, 2003, 18:21   #159
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OK, Lonny the fight is on. You got my gun through unfair tactics. You been hanging around Tulsa long enough. Find some place else to poach my guns.
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Old April 26, 2003, 18:21   #160
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Lonny - Thanks for the contribution. It is indeed a small world since the previous owner of that rifle already submitted the data!

Thanks,

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Old April 26, 2003, 18:27   #161
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Quote:
Originally posted by DABTL
OK, Lonny the fight is on. You got my gun through unfair tactics. You been hanging around Tulsa long enough. Find some place else to poach my guns.
Poaching?

On the north side of the Red River?

Not hardly....



Goose, I thought it might be already in your data base, from talking to the previous owner, but I figured if it was, you'd know it.

P.S. Bill, it's a really dinky show, hardly worth the 15 mile drive from my place, much less from Dallas...

Still, I did some horse trading, and sold a few small items...(Still ended up in the hole. Thank God I don't do this for a living...)
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Old May 01, 2003, 23:19   #162
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All right all you gun show warriors . . . find me some more FN-49 data !



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Old May 06, 2003, 10:42   #163
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BREAKING NEWS !!!!!!!!!!!

The lost FN49s in the Indonesian Navy service have been traced and found ...... exactly 7995 of them. Only 6000 or so are in good operational condition. More info to follow soon. No. They will not sell these. Their Navy is not as corrupted as their Army .... good for them, bad for us.

Some historical facts and perhaps photos will follow soon ....

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Old May 06, 2003, 11:03   #164
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Ozy - GREAT news. Keep us informed ! ! !

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Last edited by Goose52; May 06, 2003 at 16:56.
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Old May 16, 2003, 16:31   #165
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Anybody buy an FN-49 lately?



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Old May 16, 2003, 16:54   #166
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Quote:
Originally posted by Goose52
Anybody buy an FN-49 lately?



Goose
I haven't lately but, I like the line. It would look good as a T-shirt logo.
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Old May 16, 2003, 17:18   #167
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. . . sorta like "Got Milk?" but different, eh !



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Old May 16, 2003, 22:29   #168
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Quote:
Originally posted by Goose52
. . . sorta like "Got Milk?" but different, eh !



Goose
Yeah, that's it. "Got an FN-49?"
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Old June 02, 2003, 17:55   #169
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Wow, a whole month has gone by without any 'Filers' buying an FN-49 ...

Strange, that ....



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Old June 03, 2003, 11:05   #170
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My Venezualan is up for sale.

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Old June 03, 2003, 21:44   #171
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Luxembourg
Marked “AL”
SN: 10xx (all match, receiver, bolt, top cover, no number on bolt carrier)
No scope cut on left rail
Ridged metal butt plate, no trap, curved top with screw
No reinforcing bolt in stock

Colombia
National Crest
SN: 08xx (all match, receiver, bolt, top cover, and bolt carrier)
No scope cut on left rail
Original rubber butt pad
No reinforcing bolt in stock
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Old June 03, 2003, 22:39   #172
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8mm Egyptian
Fabrique Nationale D'Armes DE Guerre - Herstal- Belgique
Serial Number 52XX
Receiver ring crest: crown

Have scope cut on left receiver rail? Yes
Have a middle sling swivel located about 2" in front of the magazine? No
Have a reinforcing crossbolt in the stock? No

Yes the bolt machined to take a firing pin safety stop

bolt serial number match the receiver serial number? The numbers are not matching

Threaded muzzle with protector

Bayonet lug ground off

Sporterized Stock
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Old June 03, 2003, 22:45   #173
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Bill/H - Thanks for taking the time to report the data on your rifles. Can you give me one more digit of your serial numbers. To get the fidelity that I need in the data, I can have no more than one "X" in the number. For instance, I already have 3 Lux rifles in the 10XX block and already have another Colombian in the 08XX block.

There are some anomalies in the data your rifles - maybe you can recheck some of the features:

Lux
  • The bolt carrier should be serial numbered - usually on the side, but could be on the back below the hole for the return springs. If not numbered, this could be a replacement carrier.
  • All of the Lux contract rifles in the data base have the stamped steel buttplate with trap. Does this stock have a circular cartouche on the right side of the butt? ... or give an appearance that the stock has been sanded in that area?
Colombian
  • Can you confirm that this rifle has NO scope cut as shown in the picture on the first post? Which side of the receiver is the Fabrique Nationale .... Herstal ... stamping on? All Colombians to date have the scope cut.
  • Can you confirm that there is no stock crossbolt. All Colombians so far have had the crossbolt.
Thanks,

Goose
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Old June 03, 2003, 22:52   #174
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weaponeer2000 - Looks like you posted while I was responding to the prior post. Thanks for the data on your rifle.

Can you give me one more digit of your serial number. I already have another rifle in the 52XX block.

Also, can you recheck your scope cut? Rifles in your serial number range should NOT have the cut. Check out this pic. Does the left side of your receiver look like #1 in the below picture? Also, which side of your receiver is the Fabrique Nationale ... Herstal ... stamped on?



Thanks,

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Old June 03, 2003, 23:04   #175
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Ser # 526X

Due to the brightness and contrast of the photo it's really hard to tell.

so maybe not

Fabrique Nationale ... Herstal ... is stamped on the left side
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Old June 03, 2003, 23:27   #176
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Goose - here's my reply to your questions:
Lux
- SN: 101x

* The bolt carrier should be serial numbered - usually on the side, but could be on the back below the hole for the return springs. If not numbered, this could be a replacement carrier.
- Not numbered anywhere

* All of the Lux contract rifles in the data base have the stamped steel buttplate with trap. Does this stock have a circular cartouche on the right side of the butt? ... or give an appearance that the stock has been sanded in that area?
- No cartuoche there, there is a circular cartouche (about 3/8" in diameter) on the stock about 1" directly in front of the forward trigger guard screw.

Colombian
- SN: 081x

* Can you confirm that this rifle has NO scope cut as shown in the picture on the first post? Which side of the receiver is the Fabrique Nationale .... Herstal ... stamping on? All Colombians to date have the scope cut.
- the Fabrique Nationale .... Herstal ... stamping is on the right side of the receiver below the bolt handle, just above the stock line. (The AL has it on the left side of the receiver). I have looked at your photo again, and both of my rifles have a solid rail that runs from the stock back to the end of the stripper clip release button. I do not have the scope cuts.

* Can you confirm that there is no stock crossbolt. All Colombians so far have had the crossbolt.
- no crossbolt in the stock. I did not remove the action from the stock to see if there are cuts in the receiver. Just a piece of trivia - I lived in Cincinnati many years ago, there was a gun store in northern Kentucky, I don't remember the name, something like Elmer Joyce guns. They had about 50 Colombian FN-49s that they were putting together, all metal looked brand new and unfired. They were missing hand guards and magazines. This is not one of those rifles, but I wonder where they ended up.

I hope this helps,
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Old June 04, 2003, 09:47   #177
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weaponeer2000 – Thanks for the come-back. Nope – no scope cut for you. You can see in your pic that the FN stamping is on the left and there is no segmented dovetail on that side as shown in #1 of survey pic.

Bill/H – Thanks also for the data.

The bolt carriers were a serial-numbered part on all FN-49 contracts so you may have a replacement carrier. On the stock, the only production FN-49 stock with NO crossbolt and the corrugated steel buttplate w/no trap was the stock fitted to the “late” variant Venezuelan contract rifles. The late Vennies and the “early” variant Luxies were probably being produced concurrently at FN but I wouldn’t imagine that a Vennie stock could have been installed on a Lux at the factory and escape the FN quality control AND any required customer inspection. Perhaps this stock was fitted by a prior owner here in the U.S. BUT a late variant Vennie stock had the large “FAV” cartouche on the right side of the butt.

On the Colombian – I have no explanation for your stock w/no crossbolt. On the scope cut – the FN marking default location was on the left side UNLESS there was a scope cut and then the marking was moved to the right side. Since your marking is on the right …. there should be a scope cut on the left like shown in #2 of my survey pic posted above. Another mystery ! !

**********

Thanks for the data guys!

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Old June 04, 2003, 09:52   #178
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Bill/H - Thanks for the info about the Kentucky shop that "put-together" the 50 Colombians. Since there were only 1000 Colombian contract rifles, that means that 5% of all Colombians now have suspect pedigrees.

I have seen a Colombian that had perfect BLUEING (not black paint) and a stock with a stamped steel buttplate WITH trap door ... both non-original features. The rifle looked NEW .... perhaps this was one of the rifles from the Kentucky shop!

Thanks again,

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Old June 04, 2003, 19:48   #179
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OK, before I skew your data forever with a stupid anomaly, I need to plead stupid. I went back through the entire set of posts and found the two pictures that you posted on Aug. 5, 2002 for db58. I kept looking at pic #1 at the beginning of this thread and seeing the center cut in the side of the receiver. I thought that was the scope cut, but nooooo. I get it now, my Colombian has the scope cut, the Luxy does not. Sorry for the bad data.

On the other note, the Colombian 49’s at the Kentucky shop were painted, not blued. The paint was absolutely stunning, no nicks, no scratches, just shiny beautiful black paint. The stocks were perfect, light colored, nice grain, just a light oil finish. They looked like they were brand new and just came from the arsenal. A friend of my Dad bought one, I will see if my Dad is still in contact with the guy. If I can get any data, like the serial number, I will post it. I wish I knew if all of those 49’s had their numbers in the same range. This was about the 1979-1980 timeframe. Maybe someone else on the board saw them.
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Old June 04, 2003, 21:13   #180
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Bill/H - No problem good buddy! I have nearly 770 rifles in the data base now and I have enough data to pretty much know what to expect so I ask questions when something seems out-of-whack. Also, you never know when you'll run into a small run of rifles with a consistant anomaly .... when you see enough of a trend, then you start to figure that you have now identified another confirmed variant. Just like on the Egyptians, I've identified 3 different runs of receivers with the scope cut. The first 2 runs were a matter of a few hundred rifles only.

On the 50 Colombians - I filed away your latest data. The first advertisement offering the Colombians for sale that I know of was in the July 1967 American Rifleman. I had assumed that all of the Colombians were pre-GCA-68. As you know, import of milsurp rifles was banned between late 1968 until 1994 so it's interesting that the cache of 50 Colombians were in the country since 1968 and the Kentucky outfit must have bought this batch from someone in the US as they couldn't be imported then.

Thanks again for the data,

Goose
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Old June 17, 2003, 20:32   #181
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OK - I know there's some FN-49 owners out there that haven't checked in yet ...... don't be shy !



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Old June 21, 2003, 18:02   #182
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I saw an FN49 at a gun show a couple weeks ago, CA convert to .308. I was very tempted, but didnt know much about them and didnt know what to pay. Ive been surfing thru these threads to try to get an idea. Any one have a range on the values of these?
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Old June 21, 2003, 18:26   #183
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CA (Century Arms?) didn't convert fn49s to 308. If the rifle you saw was chambered for 7.62x51 (308) it would be an Argentine contract and might sell for 500 to 1400 as condition warrants. If the rifle was a Century Arms built type it would sell for 375 to 550$ If it was a Century import marked Egyptian type it would go for 400 to 1000 depending on conditon. If the rifle was a custom conversion to 308 it would be worth the sum of the parts.
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Old June 22, 2003, 06:43   #184
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Goose52:

Just remembered to sen data on this unit:

Bbl'd action picked up at a show.
Egyptian 8mm, SN3062X, crown ring stamp, 7, J, 9 stamped on the rear bottom internal flat of rcvr. no import markings on bbl or rcvr, scope cuts on LS rcvr.

So this begs the question...Do I build it as such, or hold out the hope for a proper scope mount, and use it to "re-build" another? Still looking for trigger group and stock..a long term project

Best,
Paul
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Old June 22, 2003, 10:47   #185
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Egyption 8mm
s/n 734X
crown
NO scope cut
NO middle sling swivel
NO reinforcing crossbolt

NO, bolt machined to take a firing pin safety stop

NO, bolt serial number does not match the receiver serial number?
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Old June 22, 2003, 13:32   #186
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FINALLY ... More rifles ! It was a long dry spell. You guys have just not been buying enough FN-49s lately!

Paul - Thanks for the contribution. A few comments:

On finding a "proper scope mount" ... keep in mind that the military base, mount, and OIP scope (as sold by Northridge and Sarco for $795) are only really correct on Belgian-contract 30-06 rifles. While nearly 1/3 of all Egyptians (10,000 rifles) had the scope cut, there may have only been around 100 (perhaps up to 200) fully-rigged Egyptian snipers ever made and they used a unique OIP-1955 base and a Meopta scope as shown in the below pic. So, it's unlikely that you'll find the "proper" rig !


If you meant that you wanted to take advantage of the scope cut on this rifle by utilizing the military base and Echo mount to mount a commercial scope - that will run you about $300 or so for the base and mount. That works out pretty well as shown in the following pic.



Andrew - Thanks for taking the time to submit your data


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Old June 23, 2003, 17:54   #187
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Reply to Gunfish:
"CA (Century Arms?) didn't convert fn49s to 308. If the rifle you saw was chambered for 7.62x51 (308) it would be an Argentine contract and might sell for 500 to 1400 as condition warrants. If the rifle was a Century Arms built type it would sell for 375 to 550$ If it was a Century import marked Egyptian type it would go for 400 to 1000 depending on conditon. If the rifle was a custom conversion to 308 it would be worth the sum of the parts."
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Gunfish,
thanks - roger that, may have been handled by Century and not converted. It had their stamp on it which concerned me. Ive been reading up and will be better prepared when I come across one next.
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Old July 26, 2003, 18:58   #188
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Wow - a month has gone by and no FN-49 survey reports ... I need some rifles!!!

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Old July 26, 2003, 19:45   #189
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Sorry the details are limited but they are as given in the catalogue, here are a couple of other that have appeared in catalogues over the past few months. I would guess that most of the SAFN's in NZ have been sourced through Century Arms.

30-06
select fire
Crown 'ABL' 1951 on receiver
S/N 36127


30-06
semi auto
S/N 34970


7.92 mm
Crown
has brass disk iletted into the butt
S/N 11367


8x57 mm
Egyptian
Crest
S/N 16020


30-06
Venezuelan National Crest
S/N 417


7.92 mm
Egyptian Crown
coin in-letted into the butt with "Republique Francaise" on it.
S/N 20305
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Old July 26, 2003, 20:45   #190
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Kevin - THANKS as always. FYI - I already had several of those rifles so perhaps they are back on auction after you originally reported them in early 2002!

Also, there is an anomaly in the ABL with the 1951 date. I had several reports from FN-49 owners in Italy that established the break in production between the 1951 and 1952 production years at around serial number 33000. This rifle that you reported is 36127. I've entered that 1951 date in "red" in the data base and I'll be waiting to get more data to see if I can pin down this breaking point a bit better.

Also, in regards to Century - here in the U.S. Century is only known to have imported the Egyptians. Other importers here brought in the 30-06 Luxembourgs and Colombians, and the 7mm Venezuelans, prior to 1968. Speaking of Venezuelans - they were all chambered in 7x57 so either the catalog listing for Ven #417 in 30-06 is in error - or someone rebarreled or rebored that rifle to 30-06!

Thanks again - you put me up to 798 rifles - the 800 milestone is just around the corner and the 1,000 goal is getting within reach!

Goose
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Old July 31, 2003, 11:43   #191
meisterdg
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Finally got around to pulling it out of the safe:

Egyptian FN 49
serial # 540X
has the crown stamp
no scope rail cut
this is a Century gun and has the replacement stock, and I forgot to check the bolt for the cut.
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Old July 31, 2003, 17:21   #192
Goose52
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meisterdg - Thanks for the data. Good luck on your stock search.

Goose
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Old August 07, 2003, 10:31   #193
TrooperDan
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FN-49

Goose, I have a FN-49 from the Egyptian contract.
Serial number is 28502 and it has a crown on top of the reciever ring. I don't know about the other detilas; I didn't make note of them!
Dan in NC
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Old August 07, 2003, 10:43   #194
Goose52
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TrooperDan - Thanks for the input. Your rifle is near the beginning of the serial number range to have the scope cut on the left receiver rail (Fabrique Nationale markings would be on the right). If you get a chance to confirm that, it would help.

Thanks again,

Goose
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Old August 07, 2003, 16:11   #195
LGW-1
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Survey

Goose, here is the information:

Egyptian Contract:
S/N: 2617X
Has Crown stamp
No scope rail cut
No middle sling swivel
No crossbolt in stock


Venezuelan Contract:

S/N: 658X
Cartouche is present
Rear guard screw has locking screw
2 pc. hand guard
Unfired(other than Factory testing)

.30-"06

AL Contract
S/N: 632X
Has scope cut
Stamped steel w/trap buttplate
Has crossbolt below receiver ring
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Old August 07, 2003, 17:24   #196
Goose52
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LGW-1 - A three-fer ..... GREAT! Thanks for the report; you've given me a nice little push to keep up the momentum in heading for the next goal of 900 rifles in the data base.

Everything sounds absolutely correct in your rifles - your Egyptian is near the end of the serial number range for rifles WITHOUT the cut (rifles from somewhere in the 27XXX range and higher had the cut), and you have a "late" variant Vennie and a "late" Luxie.

Thanks again,

Goose

Last edited by Goose52; August 07, 2003 at 18:03.
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Old August 08, 2003, 22:38   #197
204
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Goose, I finally got the neighbor boy's rifle for $270. It is in really good shape. Here is the info:
Egyptian contract
# 2112x
Crown crest
no to all other questions
Bolt has no #'s at all but rifle has matching #'s where I can find them.

kenny
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Old August 08, 2003, 23:05   #198
Goose52
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kenny - thanks for the data. Remember to strip the bolt and make sure that you have a 2-piece firing pin before shooting the rifle!

Goose
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Old August 23, 2003, 18:48   #199
Goose52
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Two weeks with no reports ! Have I finally reached the point where I have EVERY FN-49 owned by "Filers" in the data base?



Goose
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Old August 24, 2003, 12:46   #200
gunplumber
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Got another one - heheheh

35797, crown, scope mount, standard bolt w/no cut.

Odd - there is an ID disk in the stock however it has no markings, and is solid - it is not screwed in with the 2-hole-headed screw I am used to seeing. Stock is refinished, perhaps this is not an original disk.

Any offers on my FN 49 Factory wall-charts? Heavy canvas, full color, Flemish
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