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Old December 08, 2012, 09:15   #1
2barearms
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Better get a clue, Barak Stalin Obama.

Barak's Food Kommissar thinks we should be more kind to animals and other
such nonsense. We are all going to starve before these idiots get done with us.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...12-08-08-24-10
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Old December 08, 2012, 10:04   #2
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..and from the ass-o-CIA-ted press no less...

Rural America should just stop feeding these idiots.
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Old December 08, 2012, 10:16   #3
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Starvation worked for the Soviet Union,China,Ukraine,etc...Nothing new under the sun.


As for rural America shrinking-yep.The county I live and work in was one of the top 3 in Iowa that lost population.All the rural counties are losing population.

Every year I see farmsteads knocked down and farmed over.The small guys get out and are bought up by the bigger farms.Lots of corn and bean farmers around here farming 4000acres plus (25 years ago 500 acres was big).With the advent of technology,chemicals,and big machinery,people aren't needed.

Hogs and cattle are the same way-not many small cattle and hog producers.Now it's all big cattle lots and hog confinements.I have 3 hog confinements (5k per) one the road a mile north of me.Guy has 14 of them within 10 miles.Water and feed is automatic,shit goes into a holding tank underneath,and the feed is delivered to the bins by the truckload.The curtains and ventilation are automatic.He has two high school kids that check on things to make sure everything is running right.

The small towns aren't any better.Every year sees a couple older run down houses knocked down.Nobody comes and builds new ones because there are no jobs-you have a ways to drive to a bigger city.Price of fuel negates any savings on housing.Most people in town are way up there in age,or a lot of welfare types coming in anymore.



Nope,rural America is dying and there is nothing you can do about it.(Probably wont stop the gov from spending tons of money on stupid feel good shit anyway).
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Old December 08, 2012, 10:36   #4
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It's all part of the plan. One way or another, people will be forced into cities,and forced into gov. dependence for food, shelter, ect. Politicians can't allow self reliant people to continue living in rural areas. Starvation is a fantastic weapon.
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Old December 08, 2012, 11:17   #5
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It's all part of the plan. One way or another, people will be forced into cities,and forced into gov. dependence for food, shelter, ect. Politicians can't allow self reliant people to continue living in rural areas. Starvation is a fantastic weapon.
Forced from rural areas, to cities, to ghettos, a la Warsaw.

European history repeats itself in the good ol' U.S. of A.
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Old December 08, 2012, 15:51   #6
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WASHINGTON (AP) -- Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack has some harsh words for rural America: It's "becoming less and less relevant," he says.
I say Tom Vilsack needs to sit down and shut the f*ck up. Before he gets his ass beat.

What a poindexter.

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Old December 08, 2012, 16:57   #7
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Our fastest growing segment is out of state welfare recipients moving up here. Major issues with heroin, meth and bathsalts up here now. It's insane.
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Old December 08, 2012, 17:26   #8
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Our fastest growing segment is out of state welfare recipients moving up here. Major issues with heroin, meth and bathsalts up here now. It's insane.

Hell, why feed em food, just feed em drugs and when they go rabid shoot em.
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Old December 08, 2012, 18:13   #9
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I'm lucky I guess. We have lots of small farms. The local restraunts try and keep their food supplies local as do the school cafeterias. Farmer's markets. People keep the money in our community. We have lots of beef and livestock that is free roaming and grass feed. Everything taste getter here. Does cost more than your fast food and everything is made to order. Only chain within 40 mins of me is Subway. Our town will not let any francises open up here. Its a little slice of heaven here. Some of the hippies get annoying though.
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Old December 08, 2012, 20:48   #10
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I'm lucky I guess. We have lots of small arms...Its a little slice of heaven here. Some of the hippies get annoying though.
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Old December 08, 2012, 22:16   #11
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Hell, why feed em food, just feed em drugs and when they go rabid shoot em.
"Let them eat cake"
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Old December 08, 2012, 23:29   #12
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I'm lucky I guess. We have lots of small farms. The local restraunts try and keep their food supplies local as do the school cafeterias. Farmer's markets. People keep the money in our community. We have lots of beef and livestock that is free roaming and grass feed. Everything taste getter here. Does cost more than your fast food and everything is made to order. Only chain within 40 mins of me is Subway. Our town will not let any francises open up here. Its a little slice of heaven here. Some of the hippies get annoying though.
You must be near Grand Junction. THE very best fruit I've ever eaten came from the farmers market in Cliffton
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Old December 09, 2012, 02:48   #13
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The high cost of fuel is killing farming & ranching & rodeo. a bale of hay around here is $12 to $15 & regular gas is $3.35 a gallon.
The nice 55% death tax on property is the stake through the heart, thanks democrats.
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Old December 09, 2012, 06:44   #14
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Farmers around here go into the impliment dealers this time of the year,saying,"I have to spend this much..." Apparently there are certain thresholds that must be met to keep the subsidies flowing,or puntative taxes ensue or something.
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Old December 09, 2012, 09:25   #15
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& regular gas is $3.35 a gallon.
, thanks democrats .
So why was $4/gallon gas in the summer of 2008 not an economic burden again?
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Old December 09, 2012, 10:21   #16
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The high cost of fuel is killing farming & ranching & rodeo. a bale of hay around here is $12 to $15 & regular gas is $3.35 a gallon.
The nice 55% death tax on property is the stake through the heart, thanks democrats.
Yeah, "death tax" is the cause of the demise of rural America It does stink to pay on money that was already taxed once, but that really had nothing to do with what this is talking about. Try blaming Monsanto or something that makes more sense.
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Old December 09, 2012, 10:24   #17
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You must be near Grand Junction. THE very best fruit I've ever eaten came from the farmers market in Cliffton
You must have had a Palisade peach I'm about 2 hour south of GJ. 2 hours from the closest mall and 1 stop light in a 30 mile radius.
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Old December 09, 2012, 10:32   #18
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You must have had a Palisade peach I'm about 2 hour south of GJ. 2 hours from the closest mall and 1 stop light in a 30 mile radius.
I'll be going thru the Central/West on Vacation next year, sounds like a great
place to visit. Went thru the Desert this year and down the Coast to Florida last year. Want to see Colorado, Idaho and Montana.
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Old December 09, 2012, 10:38   #19
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Definitly check out SW CO if you can. Ouray and Silverton should be on the top of your list of places to see. Pretty amazing place.
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Old December 09, 2012, 10:48   #20
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Right here is your 55% death tax, hanging:

"There is no way financially my kids can pay what the IRS is going to demand from them nine months after death and keep this ranch intact for their generation and future generations," said Kester, of the Bear Valley Ranch in Central California.
Two decades ago, Kester paid the IRS $2 million when he inherited a 22,000-acre cattle ranch from his grandfather. Come January, the tax burden on his children will be more than $13 million.

Colorado has been invaded by California liberal types and I fo not go there anymore.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...#ixzz2EZOqa3g4
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Old December 09, 2012, 11:24   #21
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Here is more reading on the estate tax http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=2655
Only kicks in after each person that inherits gets $5.12 million. Does not affect the small or medium farmer or rancher. Not saying its right, but does not affect the average person.

Myth 5:* Many small, family-owned farms and businesses must be liquidated to pay estate taxes.
Reality:* Only a handful of small, family-owned farms and businesses owe any estate tax at all, and virtually none would have to be liquidated to pay the tax.
TPC estimates that only40 small business and farm estates nationwide will owe any estate tax in 2012. [10] * (TPC’s analysis defined a small-business estate as one with more than half its value in a farm or business and with the farm or business assets valued at less than $5 million.) *This figure represents only 0.0015 percent of all estates — that is, about one estate out of every 65,000 people who die this year.* Furthermore, these 40 estates will owe just 3.1 percent of the estate’s value in tax, on average.[11]
These findings are consistent with a 2005 CBO study that exploded the myth that many small businesses and farms have to be liquidated to pay the estate tax.* CBO found that of the few farm and family business estates that would owe any estate tax under the 2009 rules, the overwhelming majority would have sufficient liquid assets (such as bank accounts, stocks, bonds, and insurance) in the estate to pay the tax without having to touch the farm or business.[12] *
Furthermore, for the few taxable estates that would face any liquidity constraints, there are special provisions written into the law for them — such as the option to spread estate tax payments over a 15-year period and at low interest rates — that would allow them to pay the tax without having to sell off any of the farm assets.
Myth 6:* The estate tax constitutes “double taxation” because it applies to assets that already have been taxed once as income.
Reality:* Large estates consist to a large degree of “unrealized” capital gains that have never been taxed; the estate tax is the only means of taxing this income.
Much of the money that wealthy heirs inherit has never been taxed.* In fact, that’s one reason why policymakers created the estate tax in 1916:* to serve as a backstop to the income tax.*
Capital gains tax, a type of income tax, is due on the appreciation of assets, such as real estate or an art collection, only when the owner sells the asset.* Therefore, the increase in the value of an asset is never subject to income tax if the owner holds on to the asset until death.* These unrealized capital gains account for a significant proportion of the assets held by taxable estates — a little more than one-third, according to a study by economists James Poterba and Scott Weisbenner.[13] For the largest estates, the proportion is higher:* 56 percent of the value of estates worth more than $10 million comes from unrealized capital gains.
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Old December 09, 2012, 12:04   #22
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Here is more reading on the estate tax http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=2655
Only kicks in after each person that inherits gets $5.12 million. Does not affect the small or medium farmer or rancher. Not saying its right, but does not affect the average person.

Myth 5:* Many small, family-owned farms and businesses must be liquidated to pay estate taxes.
Reality:* Only a handful of small, family-owned farms and businesses owe any estate tax at all, and virtually none would have to be liquidated to pay the tax.
TPC estimates that only40 small business and farm estates nationwide will owe any estate tax in 2012. [10] * (TPC’s analysis defined a small-business estate as one with more than half its value in a farm or business and with the farm or business assets valued at less than $5 million.) *This figure represents only 0.0015 percent of all estates — that is, about one estate out of every 65,000 people who die this year.* Furthermore, these 40 estates will owe just 3.1 percent of the estate’s value in tax, on average.[11]
These findings are consistent with a 2005 CBO study that exploded the myth that many small businesses and farms have to be liquidated to pay the estate tax.* CBO found that of the few farm and family business estates that would owe any estate tax under the 2009 rules, the overwhelming majority would have sufficient liquid assets (such as bank accounts, stocks, bonds, and insurance) in the estate to pay the tax without having to touch the farm or business.[12] *
Furthermore, for the few taxable estates that would face any liquidity constraints, there are special provisions written into the law for them — such as the option to spread estate tax payments over a 15-year period and at low interest rates — that would allow them to pay the tax without having to sell off any of the farm assets.
Myth 6:* The estate tax constitutes “double taxation” because it applies to assets that already have been taxed once as income.
Reality:* Large estates consist to a large degree of “unrealized” capital gains that have never been taxed; the estate tax is the only means of taxing this income.
Much of the money that wealthy heirs inherit has never been taxed.* In fact, that’s one reason why policymakers created the estate tax in 1916:* to serve as a backstop to the income tax.*
Capital gains tax, a type of income tax, is due on the appreciation of assets, such as real estate or an art collection, only when the owner sells the asset.* Therefore, the increase in the value of an asset is never subject to income tax if the owner holds on to the asset until death.* These unrealized capital gains account for a significant proportion of the assets held by taxable estates — a little more than one-third, according to a study by economists James Poterba and Scott Weisbenner.[13] For the largest estates, the proportion is higher:* 56 percent of the value of estates worth more than $10 million comes from unrealized capital gains.
Sounds like you are trying to say that death taxes really ain't such a bad thing. IMO the entire death tax idea should die. I know what wrong is and inheritance/death/estate taxes are just wrong.
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Old December 09, 2012, 12:13   #23
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As I said before, not saying its right. But you can't make out like it is hurting the poor little farmer or rancher when it is not. Putting some factual info out there so everyone is not ilinformed.
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Old December 09, 2012, 14:15   #24
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As I said before, not saying its right. But you can't make out like it is hurting the poor little farmer or rancher when it is not. Putting some factual info out there so everyone is not ilinformed.
In areas, this is the case. Previous to last few years, it took a heck of a lot of land to be in the millions here in Oklahoma. Now, not so much. I'm worth that now, and don't have a dime in my pocket most of the time. I have good credit though.

There are certainly ways around this death tax issue, just visit with anyone in the Kennedy dynasty. I'm sure most of that wealth is still originated with ole Joe and his booze wealth. That and his shorting the stock market during the depression.
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Old December 09, 2012, 14:27   #25
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I guess a lot of the determining factor would also be how they place value on the items inherited. Kind of hard to do for some items.
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Old December 09, 2012, 16:16   #26
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It's all part of the plan. One way or another, people will be forced into cities,and forced into gov. dependence for food, shelter, ect. Politicians can't allow self reliant people to continue living in rural areas. Starvation is a fantastic weapon.
I think we need a cookbook for preparing delicious and nutritious meals using ghetto rats and politicians if this happens.
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Old December 09, 2012, 16:46   #27
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Yeah, "death tax" is the cause of the demise of rural America It does stink to pay on money that was already taxed once, but that really had nothing to do with what this is talking about. Try blaming Monsanto or something that makes more sense.
I sense your sarcasm. Does anyone think Mitt Romney's heirs will pay any such "death tax"? Hell no. There are ways around it - see a tax lawyer.

As for family farmers, the estate tax doesn't even kick in until you hit $5 MILLION.
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Old December 09, 2012, 17:15   #28
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Starvation is a fantastic weapon.
It sure is. See Quanah Parker and the rest of the Quahadi Comanches. Starvation brought the most powerful Indian tribe in the history of the United States to bay, and sent them to the reservation.
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Old December 09, 2012, 18:33   #29
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alant, a lot of farms or ranches are valued at 5m plus if you can sell off smaller parcels, but in reality the larger farms and ranches just don't net much money to the owners. As one farmer said on national news last year "If it costs you a million dollars to make a million dollars, it just doesn't matter".

If you need to sell off part of a viable business to pay taxes, it makes it harder on the heirs to make a living, especially with the cost of doing business these days.

Most people that have not farmed or ranched don't understand what's involved on the business. Tax these folks and you will certainly get more corporate farms, if that is your intent.
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Old December 09, 2012, 20:12   #30
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A 5 million dollar farm ain't all that big...here land can run around 4-5K per acre. Thats only about a thousand acre farm.Thats only about 1 1/2 square miles. The estate tax on farming will only depress the farm,and those trying to make it work. The govt. should be grateful there still exists those who strive to perpetuate the family farm..unless destroying farms and families is their goal.
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Old December 09, 2012, 20:28   #31
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Isn't this the reason to have a trust or a corporation (yes, even the 'family farm')?

A million dollars ain't what it used to be either... Farm ground is the only thing moving in realestate around here. Houses are still in the tank, my bare land has doubled in value in the last 12 years.
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Old December 10, 2012, 00:10   #32
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A lot of cities, counties value property at greater values than its actually worth to jack up the property tax take. God only asks for a 10%, what frickin right does the gov have to take 55%? Defending such thievery is pathetic. Mining, timber, ranching ,oil, gas, farming are all despised by "progressive/ socialists" and have been regulated (persecuted ) to bankruptcy.
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Old December 10, 2012, 11:54   #33
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The problem as I see it is big money buying the laws they want. If big money (Wall Street/banks/transnational mega corporations) paid taxes the way small business and family farmers do there wouldn't be much of a problem. But they have fixed the tax laws so they are mostly exempt.
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Old December 10, 2012, 12:48   #34
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A lot of cities, counties value property at greater values than its actually worth to jack up the property tax take. God only asks for a 10%, what frickin right does the gov have to take 55%? Defending such thievery is pathetic. Mining, timber, ranching ,oil, gas, farming are all despised by "progressive/ socialists" and have been regulated (persecuted ) to bankruptcy.
Yet another false # pulled out of FoxNews azz.

Today, 99.87 percent of estates owe no estate tax at all, according to the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center (TPC).[3] Among the few estates that owe any tax, the “effective” tax rate — that is, the percentage of the estate’s value that is paid in taxes — is less than 15 percent, on average.[4] That is far below the top estate tax rate of 35 percent.
There are several reasons why the effective rate is so much lower than the top rate. First, as noted, estate taxes are due only on the portion of an estate’s value that exceeds the exemption level; at the current exemption level of $5.12 million, a $6 million estate would owe estate taxes on $880,000 at most. Second, heirs can often shield a large portion of an estate’s remaining value from taxation through various deductions
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Old December 10, 2012, 14:31   #35
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The goal is control.
As for estate taxes, with the coming hyperinflation, most productive people will be 'wealthy'.
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Forced from rural areas, to cities, to ghettos, a la Warsaw.

European history repeats itself in the good ol' U.S. of A.
This is what happened to my grandmother's parents. They lived in a rural Polish shtetl, and were forced into Warsaw in the late 1800s or early 1900s. They saw the writing on the wall and headed for America, the rest of the family stayed and ended up in Treblinka.

Eli
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Old December 10, 2012, 15:02   #36
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Maybe someone should do some more research:

That’s right – while the federal estate tax exemption was set at $5,000,000 and the estate tax rate was set at 35% for the 2010 and 2011 tax years, and the exemption increased to $5,120,000 for 2012, on January 1, 2013 the exemption and rate are scheduled to revert back to the numbers that were in effect in 2001/2002 - meaning, as mentioned above, a $1,000,000 estate tax exemption and 55% estate tax rate.

http://wills.about.com/od/understand...utureoftax.htm
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Old December 10, 2012, 15:16   #37
BlackgunCO
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From the same web site. http://wills.about.com/b/2012/12/03/...e-big-yawn.htm
Different #s. Also not in effect yet. You can blame the polititians who will let the bill lapse for the increase up to 55%. Obama's #s should be more appealing to you
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Old December 10, 2012, 16:05   #38
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1. The threshold for payment of tax will drop from $10.24 million for married couples to $2 million for married couples and from $5.12 million for single persons to $1 million for single persons.

http://www.uwyo.edu/ces/passiton/pas...-estatetax.pdf

Considering the democrat party is now socialist/commie, your small ranch/farm is definitely in play for theft by the gov. It is not quite a done deal but its pretty damned close. $1,000,000 will not buy much land in Colorado. Those beautiful ranches will become ranchettes.
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Old December 10, 2012, 17:34   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0302 View Post
1. The threshold for payment of tax will drop from $10.24 million for married couples to $2 million for married couples and from $5.12 million for single persons to $1 million for single persons.

http://www.uwyo.edu/ces/passiton/pas...-estatetax.pdf

Considering the democrat party is now socialist/commie, your small ranch/farm is definitely in play for theft by the gov. It is not quite a done deal but its pretty damned close. $1,000,000 will not buy much land in Colorado. Those beautiful ranches will become ranchettes.
So the dems finally caught up with republicans? Carl Schurz would be proud.
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Old December 11, 2012, 10:26   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0302 View Post
1. The threshold for payment of tax will drop from $10.24 million for married couples to $2 million for married couples and from $5.12 million for single persons to $1 million for single persons.

http://www.uwyo.edu/ces/passiton/pas...-estatetax.pdf

Considering the democrat party is now socialist/commie, your small ranch/farm is definitely in play for theft by the gov. It is not quite a done deal but its pretty damned close. $1,000,000 will not buy much land in Colorado. Those beautiful ranches will become ranchettes.
That is true here as land values are pretty high. No ranchettes in my county as there is a limit to parcel subdividing of 33 acres per parcel minimum. If Obama get what he is looking for the cap is $3.5 mil per person and a tax rate of around 40-45%. The tax only applies to anything over the cap. If you inherit something worth $4 mil, you are only taxed on $500k of it. If something doesn't get worked out, the people making less than $250k are going to get hurt the worst. The Republicans are going to look like bad guys. Help for the Democrats for the next election.
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Old December 11, 2012, 10:33   #41
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The Indian shadow ranch, near Durango, is going for $22,000,000, some of the most beautiful scenic property in the usofa. An acre goes for
$12436. The 55% death tax will be $12,100,000. A smart rancher will subdivide the ranch until each ranchette is less than the $1,000,000 limit which would be 80 acre lots.

INDIAN SHADOW RANCH
Price: $22,000,000
Durango, Colorado: One of the largest privately owned ranches near Durango, Indian Shadow Ranch is an exquisite 1,769-acre wildlife and recreation ranch with 1 2/3 miles of the La Plata River running through the property.
http://www.rmabrokers.com/colorado-ranches-for-sale.php
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Old December 11, 2012, 20:20   #42
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Ranchettes would be the smart way to keep your money. There are some other laws that help if you are a rancher or farmer. I wouldn't classify that as a small ranch though. Also, if you apply Obama's math, you if a couple was receiving the ranch, taxes would be 6750000. If it was going to more people, it would be much less. One problem is that what it cost originally does not get considered. Should be like capital gains taxes where only the profit is taxed.
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Old December 12, 2012, 09:01   #43
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Looks like 526,000 family farms are now threatened by the death tax

http://m.washingtonexaminer.com/6322...8#.UMiKVbe9LTo
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Old December 12, 2012, 09:03   #44
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Looks like 526,000 family farms are now threatened by the death tax

http://m.washingtonexaminer.com/6322...8#.UMiKVbe9LTo
So you think that many families are going to die in one year and pass those farms to their kid. BS numbers for sure.

And here is a wikipedea description of the paper you got your article from:

Politico described the paper as "a megaphone for [Anschutz's] right-wing views on taxes, national security and President Barack Obama."[4]

Not a trustworthy source by any means. Try reading something from a source that is not obviously biased for a change.

Last edited by BlackgunCO; December 12, 2012 at 16:07.
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Old December 12, 2012, 21:56   #45
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Yeah sure they will all die next year - sure - yeah
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