The FAL Files  

Go Back   The FAL Files > Discussion Forums > Survival & Preparedness

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old March 27, 2007, 02:00   #1
miles1111
Registered
 
miles1111's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 15618
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: NZ
Posts: 113
Anesthetic

Would anyone know of a effective anesthetic that is readily available over the internet ?
Cheers
Miles
miles1111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 27, 2007, 08:14   #2
jerrymrc
Registered
 
jerrymrc's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 2331
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: colorado springs
Posts: 4,917
General, Local or topical?
__________________
Owner of the worlds lightest Fal. 5.8lbs.
jerrymrc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 27, 2007, 20:30   #3
miles1111
Registered
 
miles1111's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 15618
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: NZ
Posts: 113
local
miles1111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 28, 2007, 11:43   #4
AndyC
Porridge Wog
Contributor
 
AndyC's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 19755
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Euless, TX
Posts: 10,979
One of my family-members is an anaesthesiologist - I'll ask him tonight and report back.
__________________
My Iraq Pics

Preferred Travel Agent - 72 Virgins Dating Club
AndyC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 28, 2007, 22:02   #5
renaissance_warrior
Registered
 
renaissance_warrior's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 13689
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 8,517
An oral in my stash is Laphroiag. Tastes like iodine first sip, that should be ok for a local to get rid of germs at least. Cells outside the body get drunk too, don't they?

Mark
__________________
"In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a Patriot." - Mark Twain

“The government turns every contingency into an excuse for enhancing power in itself.” - John Adams

"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed, lest Rome becomes bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance." ~ Cicero , 55 BC ~
renaissance_warrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 28, 2007, 22:41   #6
Edgsmth
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 25932
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: WNY
Posts: 579
Quote:
Originally posted by renaissance_warrior
An oral in my stash is Laphroiag. Tastes like iodine first sip, that should be ok for a local to get rid of germs at least. Cells outside the body get drunk too, don't they?

Mark
An oral anesthetic would be benzocaine, cocaine or novacaine (Lidocaine). Anesthetics numb nerves, eliminating or reducing pain during procedures such as suturing.
Cocaine was also used for repairing broken noses etc.

An antiseptic kills germs. Betadine is excellent as long as it has time to dry.

Most injectable anesthetics are regulated.

Lidocaine, in 1% or 2% concentrations is an acceptable injectable local anesthetic but can cause problems in cases of sensitivity or over use as it is also a cardiac drug. It is also available mixed with epinephrine for use in suturing (for example) of more vascular areas. Epi constricts the blood vessels and, incidentally, is also a cardiac drug. In doing so it reduces blood loss when used in minor procedures.

Either should be used with caution, both from a standpoint of sensitivity, that of cardiac implications and that of precautions against blood borne pathogens. Neither is readily available. There may be a form of Lido available from a veterinary supply house without prescription. One can obtain some antibiotics from veterinary supply houses without prescription. Tetracycline comes to mind.

Probably, if absolutely necessary, a general in the form of a fifth of bourbon or maybe ether (starting fluid) properly administered would serve you better.
Edgsmth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 28, 2007, 22:58   #7
shogan
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 16012
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Goodyear AZ.
Posts: 348
Veterinarian meds! Mail order. Hopefully you know how to use parental anesthetics and when.

Shannon
__________________
No worries!
shogan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 28, 2007, 23:04   #8
Edgsmth
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 25932
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: WNY
Posts: 579
Quote:
Originally posted by shogan
Veterinarian meds! Mail order. Hopefully you know how to use parental anesthetics and when.

Shannon
Now we're getting into a whole other thing. Besides the how and when you need to understand life support and be ready to continue that for hours after your procedure is over. This topic was about locals.

Hint: The welding supply houses sell you pretty much the same oxygen as the hospitals use.

But now we're talking cholecystectomies and beyond.

Don't figure on transplanting any organs, especially brains.
Edgsmth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29, 2007, 05:21   #9
miles1111
Registered
 
miles1111's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 15618
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: NZ
Posts: 113
"eliminating or reducing pain during procedures such as suturing"

The above is what I am trying to achieve. I have built up a good medical kit, but its the "local anesthetic" for the above proceedures that I am trying to obtain.
This is only for use when no hospitals are available.
I am thinking that maybe some strong "drink" is safer than guessing. I had hoped for some kind of externally applied ..maybe sprayed..magic pain block.....
miles1111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29, 2007, 09:09   #10
Rik
Registered
 
Rik's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 24215
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: TX
Posts: 526
Quote:
Originally posted by renaissance_warrior
An oral in my stash is Laphroiag. Tastes like iodine first sip, that should be ok for a local to get rid of germs at least. Cells outside the body get drunk too, don't they?
liking the Islays eh?
Rik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29, 2007, 09:13   #11
W.E.G.
FAL Files Administrator
Silver Contributor
 
W.E.G.'s Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 1211
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 39,665
All the effective local anesthetics are DEA regulated items.

You do NOT want to get caught with any such thing if you do not have a DEA license.

You won't find those items on the FAL Files.

Keep good friends with your M.D.
__________________
.
.
.

Ask me about the Mason-Dixon FAL Collectors Association.
W.E.G. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29, 2007, 09:48   #12
AndyC
Porridge Wog
Contributor
 
AndyC's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 19755
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Euless, TX
Posts: 10,979
Quote:
Originally posted by AndyC
One of my family-members is an anaesthesiologist - I'll ask him tonight and report back.
Sorry, he was working last night, so haven't got a hold of him yet - I'll try again later today once he's woken-up.
__________________
My Iraq Pics

Preferred Travel Agent - 72 Virgins Dating Club
AndyC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29, 2007, 12:53   #13
Beepy
Registered
 
Beepy's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 8423
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: WA
Posts: 1,032
If you use xylocaine (lidocaine) with epi, remember -- No toes, nose, fingers, or weiners......
__________________
Remember boys... flies spread disease, so keep yours closed.

Don't Worry.... All bleeding stops eventually.... (as per my recent ER rotation)

There are only 10 types of people in this world -- Those who understand binary, and those who don't --

The plan was simple, like my brother-in-law Phil. But unlike Phil, this plan just might work.

Beepy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29, 2007, 13:25   #14
W.E.G.
FAL Files Administrator
Silver Contributor
 
W.E.G.'s Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 1211
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 39,665
Get epi in any of the above, and you will be missing said appendage forthwith.
__________________
.
.
.

Ask me about the Mason-Dixon FAL Collectors Association.
W.E.G. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29, 2007, 14:28   #15
Muggzy
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 4396
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,710
OK.....what is epi?

ya gonna make go look it up?
__________________
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ablility to learn from the experience of other, are also
remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
Douglas Graham

Life is drawing without an eraser

Judge me all you want, just keep the verdict to yourself

a positve attitude may not solve all your problems, but will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort ~ Herm
Muggzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29, 2007, 15:10   #16
armed1
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 9057
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 907
Most anesthetics are DEA regulated and cannot be obtained or used by lay persons. I would strongly advise against it anyway as they can be dangerous and even deadly if misused.

Local anesthetics that can be obtained over the counter are topically applied, usually to the teeth, gums, and throat. Things like orajel work very well for gums and teeth. Also, I believe clove oil may be available over the counter and makes a good temporary dental packing.

If you are sick or injured, DO NOT TRY TO PRACTICE MEDICINE AT HOME. SEEK PROFESSIONAL HELP OR ADVICE. PAIN IS AN INDICATION THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH YOU AND NEEDS ATTENTION.

armed1, M.D.
armed1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29, 2007, 18:29   #17
Deltaten
Registered
 
Deltaten's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 124
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: aboard on the N. Chessie
Posts: 8,599
I've always been partial to Lydocaine ; but in a pinch....
How's about oil of clove? Works pretty well in tooth ache juice!

Alcohol as the vehicle and a few drops(?) of clove oil. UNless you're doing (against all better judgement and medical advice!) internal, vascular or inter-muscular surgery; It oughta work for topical, surface dermal sutures. Better yet..just cowboy up and do the deed!
I've done 'em on meownself when needed ; but I prefer sugi-strips and butterflys...less chance of complications

ANy recommendations against that one, armed1? Complications arising from the oil or the (?) active ingredients/chems in same?

Best,
paul
__________________
All or Nothing!
Senator McCarthy was right! and as always......FYB!
Deltaten is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 29, 2007, 18:42   #18
miles1111
Registered
 
miles1111's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 15618
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: NZ
Posts: 113
I'm talking survival scenarios here...
Currently, I just drive to the doctors or the hospital, what I am talking about is a requirement if there are no medical facilities. what you call a shtf environment. At this time I would care less what is legal, but what is necessary for survival. !
miles1111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29, 2007, 19:19   #19
Deltaten
Registered
 
Deltaten's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 124
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: aboard on the N. Chessie
Posts: 8,599
That goes understood, miles

If it's THAT bad that I gotta worry about sutures/other than superficial; I'd be mo worried about dieing from blood loss, losing a limb or peritonitis!
If yer able to effect repairs in *those* scenarios; yer better off hiring out as a surgeon than a gunslinger

AFA battle field wounds...slap a Carlyle bandage on it and holler "Corpsman!" Barring that; you're SOL
If it's run-of-the-mill Bug-out boo-boos; deal w/it from yer FA case. ANything that needs serious home-surgury is best left for the Medicos or SF-Med-trained Troopies!

Best,
Paul
__________________
All or Nothing!
Senator McCarthy was right! and as always......FYB!
Deltaten is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 29, 2007, 20:09   #20
Sig220
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 11622
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: SE Texas
Posts: 5,559
I have sutured a cut before, took three stiches. The reason I sutured it was that it was pretty deep. My topical anesthetic was ice. Might not be available in a SHTF scenerio, but I had it and made it work.

Now, why did I suture instead of go to ER or armed1?? I wanted the experience os stiching up a real wound, and I was the only volunteer!!

I had the site checked later by an ER Doc I knew, he suggested I add another overhand knot to my routine and called it a pretty damn good job! It healed great, and the Doc donated some extra suture kits to my stash!!

I could tell you some storys of very a lightly trained "Doc" having to perform emergency procedures in some bad conditions during the Bosnian war, but we will save them for another time.
__________________
Sometimes you are the bug.....sometimes the windshield.
Sig220 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29, 2007, 20:46   #21
W.E.G.
FAL Files Administrator
Silver Contributor
 
W.E.G.'s Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 1211
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 39,665
Quote:
Originally posted by Muggzy
OK.....what is epi?

ya gonna make go look it up?
"Epi" is ephinephrine - a.k.a. adrenaline.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epinephrine

Its the stuff that is found in "epi" pens that people with allergies carry.

Whatever you do, do NOT get stabbed in the finger by an epi-pen.

Epi is a hard-core vasoconstrictor, and a shot to the finger from an epi-pen will cause every blood vessel in the finger to completely say fugk-it. You will probably lose that finger.

Medics carry epi in a more dilute solution to give to patients who may be in need of emergency vasoconstriction.

You don't want to mess with pharmaceutical epi unless you have serious training.
__________________
.
.
.

Ask me about the Mason-Dixon FAL Collectors Association.
W.E.G. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29, 2007, 20:57   #22
Edgsmth
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 25932
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: WNY
Posts: 579
Quote:
Originally posted by Muggzy
OK.....what is epi?

ya gonna make go look it up?
Epi is epinephrine, and is a vasoconstrictor that is mixed with Lido to force the blood out of tissue that is being worked on to prevent blood loss and facilitate the procedure by preventing blood pooling where the work is being done. It is always clearly marked on vials containing it. It is often used in dental procedures as well as minor bedside surgery like debridement of pressure ulcers. Interesting to watch it work, inject a small amount into the flesh and it turns pale in a matter of minutes, indicating the evacuation of nearly all the blood in that area.

References above about using it on small appendages is something I have never heard nd will ask a doc or two about it tomorrow. Such tissue will survive about 8 hours without a blood supply, even after accidental amputation in the case of fingers and even weenies. Just ask John Bobbet. Ice is recommended in this case.

Lidocaine and Epi used to be used to treat severe cardiac arrythmias. Ever see the cardiac needle scene in Pulp Fiction? That would be Epi, injected directly into the heart to jump start it. That scene was completely bogus as Uma reacted to the injection like she was given a narcotic antagonnist and not a cardiac drug. She still would have been obtunded by the heroin.

Lido was used in cases where the heart was acting irritably, like cases of ventricular tachycardia. It numbed the heart's pacemakers and slowed the rate, if the code team (and patient) was lucky.

Interestingly there was a case where a young boy in his early teens was killed on an operating table because the two drugs were accidently mistaken for one another. They are antagonists in a cardiac sense, each doing the opposite of the other. IIRC, either the boy started to brady down and was given Lido under the understanding that it was Epi or he became tachy and was given Epi under the assumption that it was Lido.

In the case of field suturing and given a healthy patient, not enough Lido would be injected to cause cardiac problems. Then come sensitivities which alter the potential for serious problems.

You used to be able to buy (~45cc) bottles) of 15% benzocaine (Liquid Oragel). Maybe you still can. This pooled in a deep cut would probably anesthetize the area if given about 10 minutes or perhaps more. It is mostly alcohol and the cure may be worse than the injury at first but suturing is a prolonged process. This sort of use would minimize any systemic dispersement of the drug and, although it is clearly labelled "Not for internal use" should not cause any tissue death and probably can be considered sterile due to the alcohol content.

Given the intent of your original post I think that this may be your best option. It should not be interpreted as any form of medically acceptable advice but more along the lines of "last ditch" option. Personally, if I had a ten inch gash on my arm and was getting tired at around the 20th suture I might try it.

I have also had excellent results closing some wounds with super glue. Bear in mind that super glues are "Cyanoacrylics" with emphasis on the "Cyano.." as it is a cyanide derivitave. I do not believe there is any appreciable systemic uptake of cyanide when so used but that is only from my own experience.

Again, my first option would be large enough quantities of alcohol barring substantial blood loss or significant comorbidities to grossly obtund myself or my patient.

Another thing that hasn't been brought up is street narcotics. That is all I will say on that subject except that these can be deadly as well.
Edgsmth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29, 2007, 20:59   #23
Edgsmth
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 25932
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: WNY
Posts: 579
Quote:
Originally posted by W.E.G.


"Epi" is ephinephrine - a.k.a. adrenaline.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epinephrine

Its the stuff that is found in "epi" pens that people with allergies carry.

Whatever you do, do NOT get stabbed in the finger by an epi-pen.

Epi is a hard-core vasoconstrictor, and a shot to the finger from an epi-pen will cause every blood vessel in the finger to completely say fugk-it. You will probably lose that finger.

Medics carry epi in a more dilute solution to give to patients who may be in need of emergency vasoconstriction.

You don't want to mess with pharmaceutical epi unless you have serious training.
+1 You really don't want to mess with any of this.
Edgsmth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29, 2007, 21:55   #24
W.E.G.
FAL Files Administrator
Silver Contributor
 
W.E.G.'s Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 1211
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 39,665
Quote:
Originally posted by Edgsmth

Another thing that hasn't been brought up is street narcotics. That is all I will say on that subject except that these can be deadly as well.
Ergh.

If you don't know what its cut with... hello vascular embolism.
__________________
.
.
.

Ask me about the Mason-Dixon FAL Collectors Association.
W.E.G. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29, 2007, 21:58   #25
Edgsmth
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 25932
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: WNY
Posts: 579
Microemboli? BTDT w/ some dedicated IV users at the end. That's what happens when you use a hunk of wonderbread or dryer lint as a 2 micron filter.
Edgsmth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29, 2007, 22:01   #26
Edgsmth
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 25932
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: WNY
Posts: 579
Quote:
Originally posted by W.E.G.


Ergh.

If you don't know what its cut with... hello vascular embolism.
Just like ammo, we all should have stocked up during the China White days. Only thing that would kill you about that stuff was the purity.
Edgsmth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 30, 2007, 08:32   #27
Rick
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 74
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Cleveland, OH USA
Posts: 1,139
Back in organic chem lab we worked with ether - anhydrous di-ethyl ether, pharmacutical grade. I'd be very reluctant to use it. Too easy to put the person under for good and it's highly flamable. Ether boils at 98F. You can pour it on a bench top and watch it evaporate. A small spark and kaboom.

As a side note, organic chem lab was a dangerous place. Many VERY toxic chemicals and volatile ones (like ether). Many students have died in chem labs cause they just didn't realize how dangerous some stuff is.
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 30, 2007, 10:46   #28
Howling Fury
Registered
 
Howling Fury's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 15368
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Indiana
Posts: 175
Quote:
Originally posted by Rick
As a side note, organic chem lab was a dangerous place. Many VERY toxic chemicals and volatile ones (like ether). Many students have died in chem labs cause they just didn't realize how dangerous some stuff is.
Can you elaborate on "many students have died"? Sure there are accidents, but death? I've heard the rare and unique case. Most anyone that's been in chem lab has heard about "Johnny" and his misadventures with H2SO4 and that's fiction...

I beg to differ that a chem lab is a dangerous place (though probably not your overall intention to say; first sentence), it's dangerous when people don't think or know what they are doing, or are supervised by someone who doesn't. No you don't heat volatile liquids with a bunsen burner (use an IR lamp), fume hoods are good, gloves don't do anything when you stick your gloved fingers in a mouth, eye, nose, etc (see that one often ) ...


On the subject of superglue for "closing wounds"... I've never done it. Don't plan or hope to. But does the superglue irritate things or no? I ask as I was using superglue (Meijer brand) in the proper manner, and my eyes started watering uncontrollably and my nose running. Never had that before. Just a guess, but I wonder if they now put irritants into it so you don't sniff it (and I had an overabundance of irritant in mine)???
__________________
"Always remember the old saying... Whether the rock hits the mirror, or the mirror hits the rock... it's ALWAYS BAD FOR THE MIRROR! In this life, YOU had BETTER be the F***ING ROCK!"

Carlos Cestari on self-defense and "martial arts"
http://www.gutterfighting.org/sparringduelling.html

Last edited by Howling Fury; March 30, 2007 at 10:51.
Howling Fury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 30, 2007, 14:45   #29
CR1198
Registered
 
CR1198's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 17959
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 152
Quote:
Originally posted by Howling Fury



On the subject of superglue for "closing wounds"... I've never done it. Don't plan or hope to. But does the superglue irritate things or no? I ask as I was using superglue (Meijer brand) in the proper manner, and my eyes started watering uncontrollably and my nose running. Never had that before. Just a guess, but I wonder if they now put irritants into it so you don't sniff it (and I had an overabundance of irritant in mine)???
I've used super glue on fairly deep paper cuts. I have some in the medical kit.

This was on the Krazy Glue site, in the FAQ's:



"Cyanoacrylate proved valuable to military surgeons during the Vietnam War. Under battlefield conditions, they could use the material to close wounds and stop bleeding. Today, specific formulations of cyanoacrylate have been developed for medical use. Instant Krazy Glue® products should not be used for wound care."


http://www.lifepassages.net/SuperGlue.html
Apparently it's used by midwives.


From Wikipedia:
Quote:
The original Eastman formula was not FDA approved for medical use, however, because of a tendency to cause skin irritation and to generate heat. In 1998 the FDA approved 2-octyl cyanoacrylate for use in closing wounds and surgical incisions. Closure Medical have developed medical cyanoacrylates such as Dermabond, Soothe-N-Seal and Band-Aid Liquid Adhesive Bandage.
I've used the Band-Aid Liquid Adhesive Bandage with some success.
CR1198 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 31, 2007, 18:20   #30
olsarg
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 9625
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NE Iowa
Posts: 1,195
a while ago patched a ladies ripped nipple with butterfly tape and super glue healed perfect. use super glue a lot for cold weather splits. guess I've been lucky so far. But I do lousy stitchs. Been using butterflys for years. If its too bad for butterflys you need a doctor.
olsarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 31, 2007, 18:49   #31
W.E.G.
FAL Files Administrator
Silver Contributor
 
W.E.G.'s Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 1211
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 39,665
Quote:
Originally posted by olsarg
a while ago patched a ladies ripped nipple...
I can only say
__________________
.
.
.

Ask me about the Mason-Dixon FAL Collectors Association.
W.E.G. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 31, 2007, 20:07   #32
ThePitbullofLove
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 8894
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NC
Posts: 2,643
Quote:
Originally posted by olsarg
a while ago patched a ladies ripped nipple with butterfly tape and super glue healed perfect. use super glue a lot for cold weather splits. guess I've been lucky so far. But I do lousy stitchs. Been using butterflys for years. If its too bad for butterflys you need a doctor.
This clearly needs some backstory....
__________________
If I let you, you would make me destroy myself
In order to survive you, i must first survive myself
I can sink no further, and I cannot forgive you
there's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you
I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain
I will use my mistakes against you, there's no other choice
I'm shameless now, I'm nameless now, I'm nothing now, I'm no one now
but my soul must be iron 'cause my fear is naked
I'm naked and fearless
and my fear is naked...
ThePitbullofLove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 31, 2007, 20:19   #33
olsarg
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 9625
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NE Iowa
Posts: 1,195
Doing rapid exit and caught her nipple ring.
olsarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 01, 2007, 00:38   #34
Beepy
Registered
 
Beepy's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 8423
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: WA
Posts: 1,032
Quote:
Lidocaine and Epi used to be used to treat severe cardiac arrythmias
UHHHH, they still ARE. Use them on my crash cart regularly, or irregularly -- which ever way you look at it...
__________________
Remember boys... flies spread disease, so keep yours closed.

Don't Worry.... All bleeding stops eventually.... (as per my recent ER rotation)

There are only 10 types of people in this world -- Those who understand binary, and those who don't --

The plan was simple, like my brother-in-law Phil. But unlike Phil, this plan just might work.

Beepy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 01, 2007, 14:14   #35
CR1198
Registered
 
CR1198's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 17959
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 152
Quote:
Originally posted by olsarg
Doing rapid exit and caught her nipple ring.
Ouch!! And I thought my paper cut hurt.
CR1198 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 01, 2007, 23:44   #36
lowr8
Senior Member
Contributor
 
lowr8's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 19819
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Phx. AZ
Posts: 812
Quote:
Originally posted by olsarg
Doing rapid exit and caught her nipple ring.
rapid exit of what?

there is more to this...
__________________
"I don't get mad if I have to waste time gettin' over it." T. Caldwell

“By failing to prepare, you are preparing to fail.” Benjamin Franklin

ΜΟLΟΝ ΛΑΒΕ
lowr8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 12, 2007, 23:39   #37
mrrk1562
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 22533
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: ohio
Posts: 104
in may of 06 i had to go to to er ..as i needed 8 stiches on my pepee....right where the reg skin ends and the membrian skin begines ..lydicaine was used ..and this marines luck would have it i was sown up by a an ol navy doc ....works fine ..the best bart was when i went to family doc .. he had a young female intern remove the stiches..and she had to ask all the prerec qustions ..like does it still work ..she was asking me as her face was about 3 inches away from my member.....note dont drinl and ride an atv with a wal-wart gun rack on the front rack ..it was a good thing a medic on the local squad was there with us that day and it was just skin that was damaged ..just missed all the big blood vessals ....but cabelas sells a nice body staple kit and coag as well ..its a good buy for about $40 for both ..now as iv worked in machine shops super glue works pretty good for fingers and things along with a rather judiguse amount of tape ..now i just saw for sale in my local pharmacy real strie-strips ..but i like useing super glue because it helps keep dirt out of cut real good ..when i worked as a prep cook at william patterson army hospital on ft monmouth as summer help ...small cuts where treated with lemone or lime juise ..but ill say the best would the body staples ..each one is just a click and if you have no pain killer a fast klick is better then tring to put a sowing needle and thru 2 side of flesh..fast and easy ..that and a few maxi pads and an ace bandage go real far
mrrk1562 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 14, 2007, 23:24   #38
Sentient
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 21418
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 32
Quote:
PAIN IS AN INDICATION THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH YOU AND NEEDS ATTENTION.

armed1, M.D.
Pain can also be an indicator for being married.
Sentient is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 02, 2007, 23:41   #39
Sentinelofold
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 27019
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Mobile, Alabama
Posts: 287
Am i the only one here that knows that Super Glue was designed by the military as a non-toxic automatic field suture? I have used this method several times and ALWAYS had a decent outcome. Sure if your not careful you might glue a part of your body to another part but aside from that is pretty safe and with time will fall off/go away on its own. i had a cut on a finger that went into a nerve and to the bone and used the Super Glue to suture it and found it worked well and i did not need an anesthetic or needles or thread err stitching material and was quick and easy. Simply close wounded area , apply Super Glue to dry skin let bond and leave a small corner open for which it can breath and seep out. Also i might add that it wont really heal like stitches seem to (small lump up on skin for a few years where it unevenly healed for me) but then again we are talking SHTF right???

Robert
Sentinelofold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 02, 2007, 23:56   #40
J308
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 7448
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 997
Once on a solo camping trip I cut a finger real good while cleaning a fish. Didn't feel like packing out early so looked around my stuff and didn't find any crazy glue. so I broke the barb off the smallest fishhook I had, tied a length of light leader to it, and gave myelf a couple stitches. Wished I'd had some crazyglue. Now it's in all my 1st aid kits. For SHTF anything that'll get the area damn good and cold will help cut the pain down.
J308 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 04, 2007, 20:04   #41
thatmguy
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 8467
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 2
Go read up on local anaesthetics.

There are two classes, amides, and esters.

The ester based gorup more often causes allergic or anaphaylactic reactions.

Xylocaine/lidocaine is an amide group, and sees a very small percentage of negative/fatal reactions.

I have an ester-based hypersensitivity, and almost ought the farm using an OTC throat losenge containing benzocaine.

If you are looking into something to stock, go with lidocaine and products containing it.
__________________
Jerry-Krishna

INFIdel

Take the test.

How can the war be over, I still have bullets left.
thatmguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 04, 2007, 21:20   #42
Andy the Aussie
Dinosaur
Bronze Contributor
 
Andy the Aussie's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 216
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Down Under
Posts: 15,946
Re: Anesthetic

Quote:
Originally posted by miles1111
Would anyone know of a effective anesthetic that is readily available over the internet ?
Cheers
Miles
.....Bundaburg OP Rum......Killer White Bear....
Andy the Aussie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 05, 2007, 01:06   #43
armed1
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 9057
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 907
I guess the answer to your question is no, there aren't any effective anesthetics available over the counter except topicals. Even if you gain access to real anesthetics, I strongly advise that you do not attempt to practice medicine on your own. Anesthesiology is a highly complex medical specialty that requires years of specific training in physiology and pharmacology, as well as airway management and intensive care. DO not use ether or chloroform as they are highly potent and highly explosive. Anesthetics suppress protective reflexes such as coughing. They cause muscle relaxation including airway muscles and can lead to asphyxiaxion. They suppress the heart and cause vasodilation leading to low blood pressure and possible heart attack and stroke if used improperly.

DO NOT DO THIS ON YOUR OWN. YOU WILL DIE OR KILL SOMEONE ELSE.

This is not a time for WECSOA (Wile E Coyote shool of anesthesia).

Find a professional or bite a bullet.
armed1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 08, 2007, 10:14   #44
GreyMan
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 10254
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 44
I went overseas to Honduras as a medical volunteer. One of the docs along on the trip was an anesthesiologist. He used a lot of Ketamine for patient anesthesia. Can be given IM or IV, spares the airway and respiratory drive. Side effect is bad nightmares. Of course, Ketamine will get a guy without a Rx a long time in the slammer, but it's nice to know, in a "Jericho" sort of way.

If you are interested in this subject -NOT that I am suggesting you can learn how to be an anesthesiologist from a book. You can't- one of the best texts I have found is "Primary Anaesthesia" by Maurice King. Dr. King worked in third world settings for most of his life, and the book was written for people responsible for anesthesia whose primary language was not English, so it's written simply. Also, the provision is made for people who are from third world countries with shall we say, less than complete medical educations.

Lots of info about nerve blocks in the book as well, so you can numb the entire leg below the knee in one or two injections, for instance, rather than trying local infiltration anesthesia for a wound. Anyway, the book is kind of old, being written in the mid-70's IIRC, and published in Great Britain, so it can be a bit hard to find.

Anyway, sorry this went off on a tangent, but I hope it was helpful to someone.

Stay Safe,
AGreyMan
GreyMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 08, 2007, 12:22   #45
mosbysmen
Senior Member
Moderator
 
mosbysmen's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 782
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: louisana
Posts: 2,395
i think we will stick this one on top for a while ...

i tried to stich my self up one time ,could not do it .
i could do it to someone else but not me , of course i had acess to medical care at the time , if i knew i had no other choice i could probally do it..

i think everyone agees that if there is medical care available use that .
this is for , there is no medical help available ,medicate yourself or take the pain.
__________________
fio para bellator
be the prepared warrior

Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.”
¯ Mark Twain




"when you have integrity..... nothing else matters
when you don't have integrity.... nothing else matters"
Teach The Children This Simple Principle.... Bob Kelly

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in
broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly
proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride
l
mosbysmen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 10, 2007, 15:36   #46
Azrial
Registered
 
Azrial's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 21440
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA!
Posts: 4,167
Quote:
Originally posted by miles1111
I'm talking survival scenarios here... Currently, I just drive to the doctors or the hospital, what I am talking about is a requirement if there are no medical facilities. what you call a shtf environment. ....
Well one would hope that you were not just trying to save money on health care!
Quote:
Originally posted by mosbysmen
....i tried to stich my self up one time ,could not do it .
i could do it to someone else but not me , of course i had acess to medical care at the time , if i knew i had no other choice i could probally do it....
I have had to stitch myself up twice while abroad. I still have the colorful scars to prove it. It is not fun and I would have preferred to the leave the work to a pro. But it sure beats bleeding to death or losing a HUGE skin flap. I can do anything that has to be done, I would think that most could if faced with no alternative.

Now ask me about doing your own filling!
__________________
A Police Officer shows just how much he cares everyday, even if it is the last thing he ever does.

Last edited by Azrial; May 10, 2007 at 15:45.
Azrial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 29, 2007, 07:25   #47
doc390
Registered
 
doc390's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 26949
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northeastern PA
Posts: 25
Wound adhesive

The use of "crazy glue" is highly under-rated. I use it regularly in the ED. As long as the area being repaired isn't under too much skin tension, & bleeding's controlled, it'll do for most minor wounds. Consider that some orthopods are using it for skin closure after a total knee replacement..... much skin tension there.

Dermabond was the original & is the best (a 3M product). My hospital's now using "Indermil" - medicalese for "crap" (IMHO). No better than the 6 tubes / $2 package of universal grazy-glue that you can buy at Wally-World.

Wounds to be closed w/ adhesive usually don't need local anesthetic, first (unless extensive debridement or trimming needed).

Clean w/ antiseptic first. If using hydrogen peroxide (H2O2 - dirt cheap, & stores well), remember that it "eats" blood (disolves clots too), & will start bleeding all over again. If using antiseptic-based soap or surgical scrub, you have to get the soap out completely or you won't get a good closure. The wound may open up before it's healed.

If the wound's only mildly/moderately contaminated, flush liberally w/ "bug juice" (sterile/sterilized water/saline w/ a dash of betadine. Jet irrigation is better (squirting it out under pressure from a big syringe) - gets rid of more debris. If the wound's badly contaminated, after cleaning & irrigation, it may be better to do loose closure only, or just let it heal from the inside out.

Wound margins have to be reasonably clean to get a good cosmetic result. That means ragged edges should be trimmed back a little so that there's good blood supply to the margins.

Blot the wound as dry as possible immediately before using the glue. Apply the glue sparingly into the wound. Hold the edges together gently until the glue dries (15-30 sec.). Beware coming in contact with the runnoff glue while you're holding the wound together..... you may have to go home w/ your patient. It will wipe off easily w/ a gauze pad of any kind as long as the glue's still wet.

Whenever possible, I always apply Steri-Strips after the glue dries. They're better than butterfly's..... it's basically medical-grade, fiberglass-reinforced, strapping tape (light & flexible, but won't stretch).

While healing, don't use peroxide or ointment-du-jour.... they may cause the wound to open before healing is complete.

Here's a good resource from Ethicon on wound closure...

http://www.jnjgateway.com/public/NLD...re_Manual1.pdf


************
One parting thought..... another possible unintended use......
In a SHTF scenario, if one didn't have rope, duct tape, or zip-ties, I imagine grazy-glue would suffice as a makeshift replacement for handcuff's. About the same price as a bullet. Not the kind of thing to test before-hand, though
__________________
Doc
__________

HVPbI Vaccinations provided free-of-charge....
(High-Velocity Lead Injection)
doc390 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 16, 2007, 00:07   #48
TXscout
Registered
 
TXscout's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 17202
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,035
Quote:
Originally posted by Howling Fury


On the subject of superglue for "closing wounds"... I've never done it. Don't plan or hope to. But does the superglue irritate things or no? I ask as I was using superglue (Meijer brand) in the proper manner, and my eyes started watering uncontrollably and my nose running. Never had that before. Just a guess, but I wonder if they now put irritants into it so you don't sniff it (and I had an overabundance of irritant in mine)???
The cyanoacrilate vapors themselves irritate eyes and mucous membranes. You might have a sensitivity/allergy to them as well
TXscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 28, 2007, 02:16   #49
piperpilot1
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 30495
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Colorado
Posts: 419
I'm posting this just for "general information". I'm not recommending you do this. I've thought about doing it, but haven't ... yet. So I also can't recommend the sellers on the website I'm going to tell you about.

Having said all of that ... I recently bought a suturing kit on Ebay to put in my medical supplies. Could I suture myself in a SHTF situation? No. Could I suture someone else? Sure, if their screaming in pain from the suturing without anesthetic didn't hurt my ears too bad.

Anyway, with the suture kit was a simple instruction sheet describing basic suture proceedures. There was also information on buying lidocaine over the Internet, and a website address. I checked out the website, and while it isn't cheap, they sell powdered lidocaine, which apparently would be mixed with sterile water to form an injectible solution. According to the website itself, this is legal, under these conditions, which I will quote verbatim ... "Lidocaine furnished by Midcoastal are not to be used for manufacturing end products or drugs for public use or consumption, end, or illegal purposes."

Okay ... I'm no lawyer, but that brief quote (if legally accurate and true) tells me that you can buy the stuff, but not use it on people. Hmmm ... so buying and storing the lidocaine in your BOB medical supplies would be okay, but if you had to use the lidocaine in an emergency ... and I'm talking about a real live SHTF no doctors anywhere, in the eye of a hurricane, surrounded by forest fires and armed insurgents sort of emergency ... and I had a huge gash that HAD to be sutured ... I think my train of thought concerning "public use or consumption" at that time would be ... fine, arrest me later, just sew me up now.

So, for what it's worth, and with all of the disclaimers I mentioned above, here's the website address for the company - www.midcoastal-environmental.com

For what it's worth.
piperpilot1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 03, 2007, 15:11   #50
cpd109
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 30668
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,501
I used ice once to reduce pain when cutting something off me. I had been drinking too, and I'm sure that helped. Anyway, the area bled a bit that evening, mended over a few days and everything is fine now. I suppose you need to use ice that went through a water filter....
Pretty tough to do something to yourself that you know is going to hurt. Don't forget the the guy who cut off his arm (I think) when it was trapped in a car accident. That is a real man.
cpd109 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:01.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©1998-2018 The FAL Files