The FAL Files  

Go Back   The FAL Files > Weapon Specific Forums > The FN Files

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old February 17, 2019, 01:32   #51
7.92 Dreamin
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 82122
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Richmond, CA
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by DakTo View Post
Any disparage about DSA knowingly and selling bad products is nonsense and only parroted by those with no corroboration.

I would encourage our members to avoid lockstep with those whom have a personal agenda.
You really are a shill lol
7.92 Dreamin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17, 2019, 01:48   #52
Right Side Up
Registered
 
Right Side Up's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 43
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,583
I don't see all the hub-bub about the engraving. This is a tribute model, it is not expected to be exactly like the original. Similar to a tribute watch that looks like a Rolex Submariner. The main thing is the quality of the machine work and how well it functions and lasts.
Right Side Up is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 17, 2019, 06:23   #53
DakTo
MadMinuteDude
Platinum Contributor
 
DakTo's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 9689
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Indian River, Florida
Posts: 8,295
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunplumber View Post
Read any of my threads on the subject. You know the ones - because you pipe in with your "DSA RA RA RA!" and I bitch-slap you.
So you are your own source? How thoughtful of you to make assumptions, spectulations and then conjecture just because you had to tweak a few receivers.
__________________
NEVER touch another man's fries.
DakTo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 17, 2019, 10:49   #54
gunplumber
Arrogant Bastard
Gold Contributor
 
gunplumber's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 96
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Surprise, AZ
Posts: 25,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by DakTo View Post
So you are your own source? How thoughtful of you to make assumptions, spectulations and then conjecture just because you had to tweak a few receivers.
You are a liar. Everyone knows that. I think what we are still wondering, is if you are just a worthless liar, or if you are a paid professional liar?

Since you have actively involved yourself in almost every thread critical of DSA, you cannot now pretend it's "a few receivers". It is a long history of heavily documented defects by a variety of people - and DSA actively engaged in those threads. DSA Representatives (like "too corrupt for Chicago" Daniel Lombard) obfuscated, slandered, pouted, threatened - they only thing they couldn't do was demonstrate I was wrong (because I'm not).

They were publically PUT ON NOTICE as to the problems and continued to sell the defective products. This is KNOWINGLY SELLING DEFECTIVE PRODUCTS.

The ironic thing is, I was limiting my comments in this thread specifically to the Izzy receiver and the poor quality engraving. From my current samples, the current recevier is functionally pretty good. By you spewing your bullshit, you've brought into this thread discussion of their long-time dishonest business practices. If DSA is actually paying you to shill for them, they deserve a refund.
__________________
T. Mark Graham, Master Gunsmith
Arizona Response Systems, LLC
gunplumber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17, 2019, 11:48   #55
hansellhd
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 31152
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Right Side Up View Post
I don't see all the hub-bub about the engraving. This is a tribute model, it is not expected to be exactly like the original. Similar to a tribute watch that looks like a Rolex Submariner. The main thing is the quality of the machine work and how well it functions and lasts.


+1

That's the way I see it, we do need to see a good Range day video though.
__________________
HDH.
hansellhd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 17, 2019, 13:36   #56
DakTo
MadMinuteDude
Platinum Contributor
 
DakTo's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 9689
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Indian River, Florida
Posts: 8,295
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunplumber View Post
You are a liar. Everyone knows that. I think what we are still wondering, is if you are just a worthless liar, or if you are a paid professional liar?

Since you have actively involved yourself in almost every thread critical of DSA, you cannot now pretend it's "a few receivers". It is a long history of heavily documented defects by a variety of people - and DSA actively engaged in those threads. DSA Representatives (like "too corrupt for Chicago" Daniel Lombard) obfuscated, slandered, pouted, threatened - they only thing they couldn't do was demonstrate I was wrong (because I'm not).

They were publically PUT ON NOTICE as to the problems and continued to sell the defective products. This is KNOWINGLY SELLING DEFECTIVE PRODUCTS.

The ironic thing is, I was limiting my comments in this thread specifically to the Izzy receiver and the poor quality engraving. From my current samples, the current recevier is functionally pretty good. By you spewing your bullshit, you've brought into this thread discussion of their long-time dishonest business practices. If DSA is actually paying you to shill for them, they deserve a refund.
Well my friend go back to post #42 and point out where I mentioned ARS, Gunplumber or Mark in my comments. I suppose my presents enamored you to roll up and insult me once again and to crank up the merry-go-round?
Were I connected with DSA in any way except by being a customer I would ask for a raise.

I believe I have been building FAL longer than yourself, not a many and I have only encountered tweaking issues over the years with DSA products and have never returned one single item.
As you have said many times in the past, your work time is money and you do not wish to spend any extra time on a project. Well, I know this; expecting the unexpected comes with the territory in any business and yours is no exception.
Perhaps if you demand perfection all of the time you should go into building LEGO products for those who cannot?
__________________
NEVER touch another man's fries.
DakTo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 17, 2019, 15:18   #57
gunplumber
Arrogant Bastard
Gold Contributor
 
gunplumber's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 96
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Surprise, AZ
Posts: 25,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by DakTo View Post
blah blah blah
I may be the one who has the largest amount of data, and better ability to document than most. But every observation I have made on the defects of DSA products has been independently affirmed by many others. You know this, but continue your same bullshit about "isolated instances." You are a dishonest shill.
__________________
T. Mark Graham, Master Gunsmith
Arizona Response Systems, LLC
gunplumber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17, 2019, 18:54   #58
DakTo
MadMinuteDude
Platinum Contributor
 
DakTo's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 9689
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Indian River, Florida
Posts: 8,295
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunplumber View Post
I may be the one who has the largest amount of data, and better ability to document than most. But every observation I have made on the defects of DSA products has been independently affirmed by many others. You know this, but continue your same bullshit about "isolated instances." You are a dishonest shill.
I believe some of your past documentations are noteworthy, however I take issue with several which are as you say are "observations" and not necessarily a realization or factual.

One film in particular was your humorous 10 magazines which would not seat. The film shows you huffin' & puffin' to seat 10 different magazines either in a DSA R1 or a DSA prefix receiver. All failed.
I posted photos of both my DSA receivers which were identical to yours with the magazines seated and you bemoaned that I did not install the magazine release, BHO and cross pin. But you forgot you were doing a seating demonstration and not a lock in and since the 10 magazines would not seat you could not possibly lock them in anyway.
So, i installed those parts on both of my receivers and provided photos of both magazines locked in and you and a few of you minions suddenly got lock jaw.
My DSA receivers were tight with a new magazine which required a palm push to lock them in. A used magazine needed but 2 fingers to lock in and an aluminium magazine required 1 finger to lock in. So your "observations" are somewhat questionable and not reflective of a broadbased assessment of DSA products.
__________________
NEVER touch another man's fries.
DakTo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 17, 2019, 19:30   #59
gunplumber
Arrogant Bastard
Gold Contributor
 
gunplumber's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 96
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Surprise, AZ
Posts: 25,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by DakTo View Post
One film in particular was your humorous 10 magazines which would not seat. The film shows you huffin' & puffin' to seat 10 different magazines either in a DSA R1 or a DSA prefix receiver. All failed.
I posted photos of both my DSA receivers which were identical to yours with the magazines seated and you bemoaned that I did not install the magazine release, BHO and cross pin. But you forgot you were doing a seating demonstration and not a lock in and since the 10 magazines would not seat you could not possibly lock them in anyway.
You are lying again. I demonstrated that a wide variety of factory mags would not lock in. You showed a picture of yours without the mag catch, pretending that this was a demonstration that on yours, they did. Now either you are terminally stupid, or this was planned deception - and I called you out on it. Actually, you can be stupid and deceptive.

Quote:
So, i installed those parts on both of my receivers and provided photos of both magazines locked in and you and a few of you minions suddenly got lock jaw.
Except you didn't. You are lying again. Thread is here. http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showt...=415587&page=2 See post 73, 85 et al.

Here's the video. L1A1 Pt 1



L1A1 Pt 2



FAL

__________________
T. Mark Graham, Master Gunsmith
Arizona Response Systems, LLC
gunplumber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17, 2019, 19:34   #60
gunplumber
Arrogant Bastard
Gold Contributor
 
gunplumber's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 96
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Surprise, AZ
Posts: 25,310
I did just return from the range testfiring the first of my DSA Israel builds, and aside from a few minor issues, it was a pleasant build and functioned fine. Hopefully this is indicative of receivers to come. As it is, my only significant complaint is the poor quality of the Izzy markings, which are the only thing "special" about this receiver, compared to a generic type 1. Which is why I think it is something they should take more care in doing, even if it costs more and takes longer.

Thread here.

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=436595
__________________
T. Mark Graham, Master Gunsmith
Arizona Response Systems, LLC
gunplumber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 18, 2019, 06:49   #61
DakTo
MadMinuteDude
Platinum Contributor
 
DakTo's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 9689
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Indian River, Florida
Posts: 8,295
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunplumber View Post
You are lying again. I demonstrated that a wide variety of factory mags would not lock in. You showed a picture of yours without the mag catch, pretending that this was a demonstration that on yours, they did. Now either you are terminally stupid, or this was planned deception - and I called you out on it. Actually, you can be stupid and deceptive.



Except you didn't. You are lying again. Thread is here. http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showt...=415587&page=2 See post 73, 85 et al.
As a good businessman you need to learn to be more objective in critiquing products verses your constant subjectiveness. Also, when you demonize the ownership and some staff of those companies your objectiveness is lost.
__________________
NEVER touch another man's fries.
DakTo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 18, 2019, 09:21   #62
gunplumber
Arrogant Bastard
Gold Contributor
 
gunplumber's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 96
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Surprise, AZ
Posts: 25,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by DakTo View Post
As a good businessman you need to learn to be more objective in critiquing products verses your constant subjectiveness. Also, when you demonize the ownership and some staff of those companies your objectiveness is lost.

This is my 29th year in business, 27th as Arizona Response Systems. I don't need business advise from a discredited, disgraced pathological liar such as yourself. I don't "demonize" anyone. They do it to themselves. I just make sure they can't hide in the shadows. Just like I don't make you lie. I just make sure everyone knows when you do.

I am well known for my objectivity and fairness. It is you who are comic in your dishonest shilling.
__________________
T. Mark Graham, Master Gunsmith
Arizona Response Systems, LLC
gunplumber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 18, 2019, 11:44   #63
DakTo
MadMinuteDude
Platinum Contributor
 
DakTo's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 9689
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Indian River, Florida
Posts: 8,295
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunplumber View Post
This is my 29th year in business, 27th as Arizona Response Systems. I don't need business advise from a discredited, disgraced pathological liar such as yourself. I don't "demonize" anyone. They do it to themselves. I just make sure they can't hide in the shadows. Just like I don't make you lie. I just make sure everyone knows when you do.

I am well known for my objectivity and fairness. It is you who are comic in your dishonest shilling.

I look forward to you building lots of guns for another 29 years. How long were you an auto mechanic?
__________________
NEVER touch another man's fries.
DakTo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 18, 2019, 14:36   #64
1911Ron
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 17513
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ft Mudge Az
Posts: 1,477
Quote:
Originally Posted by DakTo View Post
I look forward to you building lots of guns for another 29 years. How long were you an auto mechanic?
TROLL ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
FAL convert.
"Too old to fight, too slow to run, but I can still shoot pretty good!"
1911Ron is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 18, 2019, 15:31   #65
ruskiegunlover
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 28545
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: wichita Ks.
Posts: 251
Wow.....this place.

I am just......excited to be getting an israeli fal???? Hoping to get a good one???? Everyone else is throwing insults at eachother like crazy.
ruskiegunlover is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 18, 2019, 16:26   #66
hkshooter
Mighty Fine!
Silver Contributor
 
hkshooter's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 5391
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Central Indiana
Posts: 7,025
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruskiegunlover View Post
Wow.....this place.

Everyone else is throwing insults at eachother like crazy.
Maybe it feels that way but seeing as how there are over 61k members here your blanket statement should hardly include everyone. There are always a couple, far from everyone.
And you'll get your rifle. By the sounds of it a very good one, too. Enjoy. Post pics when it happens.
__________________
"2A was specifically for, as you note, dealing with what is no longer feasible within the system. This applies to all organs of the state, whether they carry badges, gavels or law degrees."
Mark Graham
hkshooter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 18, 2019, 17:41   #67
mellow
Captain Awesome
Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 50296
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: United States of America
Posts: 502
Those pics shwoing the latest engravings appears to me that the color fill in option will look blotchy and like sh#t.wonder if i should change it
__________________
We probably can survive Obama but can we survive the Obama voter....?
mellow is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 19, 2019, 11:26   #68
hansellhd
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 31152
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by mellow View Post
Those pics shwoing the latest engravings appears to me that the color fill in option will look blotchy and like sh#t.wonder if i should change it
No way would would I pay them an extra $50.00 for it when I can do it myself for about $1.00.



It's easy.
__________________
HDH.

Last edited by hansellhd; February 19, 2019 at 11:38.
hansellhd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 19, 2019, 11:31   #69
hansellhd
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 31152
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911Ron View Post
TROLL ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL.....nothing wrong with being an auto mechanic. I know one who has a FFL and does gunsmithing work on the side. If one has a high Mechanical aptitude no reason you have to stick to just one discipline. More power to the Man.
__________________
HDH.
hansellhd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 19, 2019, 17:18   #70
1911Ron
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 17513
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ft Mudge Az
Posts: 1,477
Quote:
Originally Posted by hansellhd View Post
LOL.....nothing wrong with being an auto mechanic. I know one who has a FFL and does gunsmithing work on the side. If one has a high Mechanical aptitude no reason you have to stick to just one discipline. More power to the Man.
I was thinking it was dig.
__________________
FAL convert.
"Too old to fight, too slow to run, but I can still shoot pretty good!"
1911Ron is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 19, 2019, 17:30   #71
gunplumber
Arrogant Bastard
Gold Contributor
 
gunplumber's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 96
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Surprise, AZ
Posts: 25,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911Ron View Post
I was thinking it was dig.
So was I, but he's so deranged I blew it off as just another of his nonsensical ravings.

I'm so good at what I do, I lose money working on my own vehicle. I used to, but with 30+ rifles in the shop, I lose money working on my own stuff. I have people for that. In their fields, they know more than I do, and I respect that. And they send their guns to me. Because they know in that area, I know more than they. Heck, I don't even change my own oil - it's not cost effective when Walmart will do it for $25.

I also pay I guy for my CSS - I can muddle through it, but why? I have a guy for computer repair. I have a guy for tax accounting. I pay a neighbor for working on my diesel tractor. Paying for maximum efficiency is the basis of free-market capitalism.

I would never disparage a competent auto mechanic. They have a meaningful trade. But we all know DakTo is full of shit, so . . . whatever.
__________________
T. Mark Graham, Master Gunsmith
Arizona Response Systems, LLC
gunplumber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 19, 2019, 17:58   #72
ruskiegunlover
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 28545
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: wichita Ks.
Posts: 251
Please do not take my above post as a blanket statement. Have been a member for many years, just nit always posting. On a ton of forums under the same name, and know all forums are the same. Each barrel has a few bad apples.

Ha, here I go again shilling, but really looking forward to my israeli fal.

Where can I find one of these white or red paint markers for highlighting the engravings? Anyone sell them online? Any advice for application?
ruskiegunlover is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 19, 2019, 18:19   #73
gunplumber
Arrogant Bastard
Gold Contributor
 
gunplumber's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 96
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Surprise, AZ
Posts: 25,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruskiegunlover View Post
Where can I find one of these white or red paint markers for highlighting the engravings? Anyone sell them online? Any advice for application?
Sharpie does make paint markers but they suck. So does the crayon that brownells sells. I just smear testors insignia white and red, and wipe with a cloth that has little nap, like a handkerchief - not a t-shirt. Parkerizing you have to do quickly or it will haze. Painted finish can dry first. Just a tiny dab of paint thinner, then use the edge of the wet spot. Or you'll wick the paint out of the engraving.

The problem is, to get good paint-fill you need crisp lines with sharp edges. DSA Izzy engraving is not. The rounded edges from the ball cutter leave no defined edge to get a clean wipe.
__________________
T. Mark Graham, Master Gunsmith
Arizona Response Systems, LLC
gunplumber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 19, 2019, 19:09   #74
exred
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 78053
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Chicago, illinois
Posts: 31
+1 for Testors paint, there is a bunch of videos on youtube on how to.
exred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 19, 2019, 19:12   #75
Invictus77
The Colonel 1C16:13
Bronze Contributor
 
Invictus77's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 74205
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Western, KY
Posts: 7,065
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruskiegunlover View Post
Where can I find one of these white or red paint markers for highlighting the engravings?
White fingernail polish works very well and is surprisingly durable. I would suggest you stop at the drugstore and buy your own new bottle rather than rooting through the wife's gummy, dried-out, old stuff in her bathroom drawer
__________________
A 9mm might expand
A 45 will never shrink
Invictus77 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 19, 2019, 19:15   #76
gentlemanjoe
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 77676
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 1,292
DSA has a lot in common with Trump.

Some of you want what they make, know what you are getting, pay for it and then bitch when you get what you wanted, paid for and expected.

If DSA stopped producing receivers period you would be sitting in a pile of rusty FAL parts trying to figure out how to get those shitty rejected Century receivers to work while watching the bottom drop out of the market for the FAL parts that you hoard... "cough" "cough" I mean collect.

I predict heart attacks for some people.

Last edited by gentlemanjoe; February 19, 2019 at 19:49.
gentlemanjoe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 19, 2019, 19:42   #77
tac-40
Moderator
Armed Curmudgeon
 
tac-40's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 12090
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: SC-Low Country
Posts: 8,138
Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlemanjoe View Post
DSA has a lot in common with Trump.

Some of you want what they make, know what you are getting, pay for it and then bitch when you get what you wanted, paid for and expected.

If DSA stopped producing receivers period you would be sitting in a pile of rusty FAL parts trying to figure out how to make those shitty rejected Century receivers to work while watching the bottom drop out of the market for the FAL parts that you hoard... "cough" "cough" I mean collect.

I predict heart attacks for some people.
Hell, I am doing that now. So when you get ready to dump your parts, let me know!!!
__________________
Only 2 defining forces have ever offered to die for you. Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Schools uses to start with the "three R's". Reading, writing, and arithmetic. Now they start with the "three D's". Dipshitery, Dumbassery, and Douchebaggery-Retired Bum

If you do in fact have a problem, you have the rest of your life to solve it. How long your life lasts only depends on how well you solve it.
tac-40 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 19, 2019, 21:16   #78
homebrewkid
Registered
Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 10958
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Timnath, Colorado
Posts: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlemanjoe View Post
DSA has a lot in common with Trump.

Some of you want what they make, know what you are getting, pay for it and then bitch when you get what you wanted, paid for and expected.

If DSA stopped producing receivers period you would be sitting in a pile of rusty FAL parts trying to figure out how to get those shitty rejected Century receivers to work while watching the bottom drop out of the market for the FAL parts that you hoard... "cough" "cough" I mean collect.

I predict heart attacks for some people.
So what's your solution?

I wish the bottom would drop out......dollar cost average.

I doubt the guys that have been around here since 2000 are sitting on a bunch of shitty Century receivers.
__________________
Happiness is staying away from negative people.....
homebrewkid is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 19, 2019, 21:22   #79
hkshooter
Mighty Fine!
Silver Contributor
 
hkshooter's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 5391
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Central Indiana
Posts: 7,025
Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlemanjoe View Post
If DSA stopped producing receivers period you would be sitting in a pile of rusty FAL parts trying to figure out how to get those shitty rejected Century receivers to work while watching the bottom drop out of the market for the FAL parts that you hoard... "cough" "cough" I mean collect.

I predict heart attacks for some people.
Wrong. When the market got desperate I'd bust up and part out my collection, pay off the house with my receivers.
__________________
"2A was specifically for, as you note, dealing with what is no longer feasible within the system. This applies to all organs of the state, whether they carry badges, gavels or law degrees."
Mark Graham
hkshooter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 21, 2019, 19:41   #80
gentlemanjoe
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 77676
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 1,292
Quote:
Originally Posted by homebrewkid View Post
So what's your solution?

I wish the bottom would drop out......dollar cost average.

I doubt the guys that have been around here since 2000 are sitting on a bunch of shitty Century receivers.
My solution has been to enjoy building them. I work with what I have and try to enjoy the process. Some people could flip an original FN over all day and find fault.

The shitty Century receivers went somewhere. Homebuilders have been pulling them apart for years. You can still buy them on Gunbroker. A lot of people are taking them off of their neutered rifles right now. So folks can get one of those if the DSA are so detestable.

It just seems that any thread with the letters DSA in them almost predictably get hijacked from the 5th post down devolve into a shit fest. That is of course with the exception of positive threads that say "Hey got my rifle screwed together, had no problems, she runs like a champ.

Sometimes it just goes too far. If the DSA guy reluctantly post in here hoping to get user feedback he is generally eviscerated. Way beyond criticism, more like crucifixion
gentlemanjoe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 22, 2019, 00:09   #81
DSA_REP
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 80089
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: I'm an active FAL enthusiast living in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin
Posts: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlemanjoe View Post

It just seems that any thread with the letters DSA in them almost predictably get hijacked from the 5th post down devolve into a shit fest. That is of course with the exception of positive threads that say "Hey got my rifle screwed together, had no problems, she runs like a champ.

Sometimes it just goes too far. If the DSA guy reluctantly post in here hoping to get user feedback he is generally eviscerated. Way beyond criticism, more like crucifixion
Crazy isnít it? Itís all good though. We donít get discouraged by trolls, just inspired. We are just going to keep hammering out good stuff and be there for the customers that need us
DSA_REP is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 22, 2019, 00:29   #82
homebrewkid
Registered
Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 10958
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Timnath, Colorado
Posts: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSA_REP View Post
Crazy isnít it? Itís all good though. We donít get discouraged by trolls, just inspired. We are just going to keep hammering out good stuff and be there for the customers that need us
We need you guys to be successfull....
__________________
Happiness is staying away from negative people.....
homebrewkid is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 22, 2019, 08:18   #83
DakTo
MadMinuteDude
Platinum Contributor
 
DakTo's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 9689
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Indian River, Florida
Posts: 8,295
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSA_REP View Post
Crazy isn’t it? It’s all good though. We don’t get discouraged by trolls, just inspired. We are just going to keep hammering out good stuff and be there for the customers that need us
There will always be a few crybabies in any vocation and avocation. Unfortunately we have the kingfish crybaby here who actually believes he knows more about manufacturing receivers than all current and former FAL receiver manufacturers put together.

Keep up the good work and remember: It is better to be talked about than not talked about at all and forgotten.
__________________
NEVER touch another man's fries.
DakTo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 22, 2019, 08:38   #84
gunplumber
Arrogant Bastard
Gold Contributor
 
gunplumber's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 96
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Surprise, AZ
Posts: 25,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by DakTo View Post
Unfortunately we have the kingfish crybaby here who actually believes he knows more about manufacturing receivers than all current and former FAL receiver manufacturers put together.
I am the one people send their factory DSA rifles to, for me to repair. This is often after they have already been back to DSA for their "warranty" and come back with no improvement or actually worse.

I re-machined the mag wells on two more DSA voyager rifles this week, so that a GI mag would fit.

And your implication that because I do not make receivers, I cannot discern problems in one, is stupid (as are all of your shill posts).

I am not a cow and can't produce milk, but I can tell you if it is sour.





I don't know what to think about the scant feed ramps. It doesn't seem to affect feeding, but it is indicative of inconsistency in manufacture.

I am sure DSA is thrilled with you bringing up all the other problems with their products, in a thread that I had previously limited to the quality of their engraving on an otherwise pretty good receiver. I'm happy to oblige, but again, if they are paying you to shill for them, they deserve a refund.
__________________
T. Mark Graham, Master Gunsmith
Arizona Response Systems, LLC
gunplumber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22, 2019, 10:19   #85
hueyville
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
hueyville's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 74557
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Foothills of the Blueridge Mountains
Posts: 5,912
If they will post each generation of their development phase, listen to feedback, go back and amend their code seems like it would not be terribly difficult to get the engraving part close enough for a clone. It's too deep and wide for my taste at present without comment on actual characters and their meaning. Half or more of the clones I see from classic AR's to FAL's, etc it's usually either laser etched (rather not have at all) or engraved too deep with a bit that does not have correct angle usually resulting in big fat characters that don't resemble the original even from a distance.

That said, a little work on code corrections, different bit and proper function then 70% of the clone crowd will be happy to get it at fair price. The 30% who want perfection will pay for it elsewhere. I just spent over 60 hours recreating a logo for my CNC router because client had purchased item wanted from two other shops that dropped True Type fonts in where their custom designed fonts done by artists 100 years ago should have been. I will put the time in for a one off. For a production run riding the backs of your art department, code folk and ordering a custom bit if necessary can do a lot for your product.

Have spent many thousands of dollars with a company in Lolo, Montana making a customach end mill or router bit just to cut one line of copy or shape in a design. Set it up as right as possible and your extended client base will cover the cost of the work and tooling.
__________________
A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3 G.W.T.
"If it is worth doing once...it's worth doing it a few more times to get it right." Stimpsonjcat
hueyville is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 22, 2019, 15:34   #86
DakTo
MadMinuteDude
Platinum Contributor
 
DakTo's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 9689
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Indian River, Florida
Posts: 8,295
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunplumber View Post
I am the one people send their factory DSA rifles to, for me to repair. This is often after they have already been back to DSA for their "warranty" and come back with no improvement or actually worse.

I re-machined the mag wells on two more DSA voyager rifles this week, so that a GI mag would fit.

And your implication that because I do not make receivers, I cannot discern problems in one, is stupid (as are all of your shill posts).

I am not a cow and can't produce milk, but I can tell you if it is sour.
So you worked on 2 of the Voyagers which voided the warranty. How many Voyagers were made?
You had also remanufactured some DSA prefix receivers and how many? 2, 3, 5, 7 and I will give you a doubtful 10. I see the DSA prefix FAL's are now in the 37,000 serial number range and your numbers are less than one tenth of one percent which is well below and the norm of any critical manufactured product.

I made a reference towards you? Pas Moi. I named no names but if the shoe fits......
__________________
NEVER touch another man's fries.
DakTo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 22, 2019, 16:23   #87
1911Ron
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 17513
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ft Mudge Az
Posts: 1,477
Quote:
Originally Posted by hueyville View Post
If they will post each generation of their development phase, listen to feedback, go back and amend their code seems like it would not be terribly difficult to get the engraving part close enough for a clone. It's too deep and wide for my taste at present without comment on actual characters and their meaning. Half or more of the clones I see from classic AR's to FAL's, etc it's usually either laser etched (rather not have at all) or engraved too deep with a bit that does not have correct angle usually resulting in big fat characters that don't resemble the original even from a distance.

That said, a little work on code corrections, different bit and proper function then 70% of the clone crowd will be happy to get it at fair price. The 30% who want perfection will pay for it elsewhere. I just spent over 60 hours recreating a logo for my CNC router because client had purchased item wanted from two other shops that dropped True Type fonts in where their custom designed fonts done by artists 100 years ago should have been. I will put the time in for a one off. For a production run riding the backs of your art department, code folk and ordering a custom bit if necessary can do a lot for your product.

Have spent many thousands of dollars with a company in Lolo, Montana making a customach end mill or router bit just to cut one line of copy or shape in a design. Set it up as right as possible and your extended client base will cover the cost of the work and tooling.
It is easy if you are willing to listen.
__________________
FAL convert.
"Too old to fight, too slow to run, but I can still shoot pretty good!"
1911Ron is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 22, 2019, 16:28   #88
1911Ron
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 17513
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ft Mudge Az
Posts: 1,477
Quote:
Originally Posted by DakTo View Post
So you worked on 2 of the Voyagers which voided the warranty. How many Voyagers were made?
You had also remanufactured some DSA prefix receivers and how many? 2, 3, 5, 7 and I will give you a doubtful 10. I see the DSA prefix FAL's are now in the 37,000 serial number range and your numbers are less than one tenth of one percent which is well below and the norm of any critical manufactured product.

I made a reference towards you? Pas Moi. I named no names but if the shoe fits......
Your double standards and stupidity is growing old.
__________________
FAL convert.
"Too old to fight, too slow to run, but I can still shoot pretty good!"
1911Ron is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 22, 2019, 16:52   #89
gunplumber
Arrogant Bastard
Gold Contributor
 
gunplumber's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 96
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Surprise, AZ
Posts: 25,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by DakTo View Post
So you worked on 2 of the Voyagers which voided the warranty. How many Voyagers were made?
You had also remanufactured some DSA prefix receivers and how many? 2, 3, 5, 7 and I will give you a doubtful 10. I see the DSA prefix FAL's are now in the 37,000 serial number range and your numbers are less than one tenth of one percent which is well below and the norm of any critical manufactured product.
You assume that when DSA goes from 33k to 34k, that means they made 1000 receivers - there is no evidence to support that assumption. But lets just suppose there is a receiver for each serial number possibility.

Of the 120+ L1A1 receivers, I have had 14 in the shop - all were defective. That's not a tenth of a percent.

I've had 92 DS Arms FAL receivers or complete guns in since 1/1/17. Can't tell without manually counting which were DS or DSA prefix, but given the DS haven't been produced for many years, the majority are DSA. I can remember one or maybe 2 since I started documenting the problems, that were not defective in a significant manner.

DSA must report complete rifles (and pistols, shotguns) manufactured to ATF includes not just FALs but also AR-15s. I do not know what percentage are FALs and what percentage are AR-15s. They also made some handguns.

2018 report not due yet
2017 none reported (hmm. . .. . )
2016 1806
2015 1567
2014 872
2013 3402
2012 1257


Here's just a small number by serial number from more than a year and a half ago. I have another 50+ pages of individual serial number documentation I have not entered into the computer yet

FAL http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=417510

L1A1 http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=418376

So congratulations, in your attempt to shill for DSA in a thread on engraving, you have invited me to provide documentation that is not beneficial to them.
__________________
T. Mark Graham, Master Gunsmith
Arizona Response Systems, LLC

Last edited by gunplumber; February 22, 2019 at 17:02.
gunplumber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22, 2019, 16:56   #90
DSA_REP
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 80089
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: I'm an active FAL enthusiast living in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin
Posts: 62
A few members told me to just remove this thread due to the rapid and impressive decent into absurdity. But, I have to be honest, kinda entertaining Thanks to all the constructive replies. We are always trying to improve and will continue to do so. THANK YOU

On a side note...

Hope everyone has a WONDERFUL weekend and as many as possible get time to put some rounds downrange. I know I sure am!

If you guys want, check out the video Matt from Demolition Ranch just did with one of our new I Series 11" pistols. It's a good laugh and exercise in silly

Watch it here ---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPW6kUrvh_w
DSA_REP is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 22, 2019, 17:41   #91
1911Ron
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 17513
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ft Mudge Az
Posts: 1,477
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSA_REP View Post
A few members told me to just remove this thread due to the rapid and impressive decent into absurdity. But, I have to be honest, kinda entertaining Thanks to all the constructive replies. We are always trying to improve and will continue to do so. THANK YOU

On a side note...

Hope everyone has a WONDERFUL weekend and as many as possible get time to put some rounds downrange. I know I sure am!

If you guys want, check out the video Matt from Demolition Ranch just did with one of our new I Series 11" pistols. It's a good laugh and exercise in silly

Watch it here ---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPW6kUrvh_w
If you clean up the engraving and tighten up QC I am all over getting one!
__________________
FAL convert.
"Too old to fight, too slow to run, but I can still shoot pretty good!"
1911Ron is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 22, 2019, 17:50   #92
hueyville
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
hueyville's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 74557
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Foothills of the Blueridge Mountains
Posts: 5,912
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunplumber View Post
Not an improvement. Geez! It's the ONLY THING SPECIAL about the receiver. The characters on the crest are completely unrecognizable.
I agree 100% on this, the debossed lettering in arc below the crest is totally illegible to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DakTo View Post
Chris, I am positive our entire community would not share that suggestion. Personally I think their built FAL's are a bit over priced and some of us can build more affordable FAL's.
(Trim)
They build their rifles and still offer not only some version of the FAL but parts as well to a subset community of nit picking people all with their own ideas of what acceptable quality and price is. I recently picked up a lightly used DSA and with milsurp metric mags (amazingly not with the three DSA factory magazines) and surplus or commercial brass case ammo it manages to feed, fire, extract, reload and fire again 100% of the time. Will tinker with the DSA factory mags and if can't make work will trade them off as my G1 nor my 16" short gas riFAL likes them either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunplumber View Post
(Trim)
I'm so good at what I do, I lose money working on my own vehicle. I used to, but with 30+ rifles in the shop, I lose money working on my own stuff. I have people for that. In their fields, they know more than I do, and I respect that. And they send their guns to me. Because they know in that area, I know more than they. Heck, I don't even change my own oil - it's not cost effective when Walmart will do it for $25.

I also pay I guy for my CSS - I can muddle through it, but why? I have a guy for computer repair. I have a guy for tax accounting. I pay a neighbor for working on my diesel tractor. Paying for maximum efficiency is the basis of free-market capitalism. I would never disparage a competent auto mechanic. They have a meaningful trade.(Trim)
I too cannot make money servicing some of my own vehicles. All my diesel trucks and anything with hydraulics goes to a full time diesel mechanic. I service my daily driver myself as prefer to know it's getting Royal Purple full synthetic oil, Lucas Sticky Red synthetic gerase along with Mobile synthetic gear oil in differentials makes me feel more confident. Especially don't want anyone fooling with the electronics in it. But it's much more productive and less chance of mistakes for my CPA to handle my book keeping chores, electrician to do my three phase wiring at work while I handle single phase at home. Does not take long for a business owner to figure out what is best outsourced and done in-house.

Quote:
Originally Posted by exred View Post
+1 for Testors paint, there is a bunch of videos on youtube on how to.
The absolute best option I have found is One Shot sign lettering enamel. It's what my father, uncles and grandfather all used for hand lettering signs and I stil use it. Not only for the odd hand lettered sign client is willing to pay for but for pin striping motorcycles and hot rods, etc. One shot is one of the most durable oil based enamels have ever used and cuts the cleanest lines of any will find. Combine it with a good striping brush, French made squirells tail lettering brush or high quality fitch, One Shot comes in quantities as little as a half pint and believe Dick Blick still sells it and if not qood sign supply vendors wI'll have it.

Funny how if you pick between the flames most have some meaningful contribution to the thread. I am trying to learn to filter what I read as well as what I post and be less prone to posting walls of text. I do have more Hebrew fonts in my machine than able to count and if anyone ever needs a font will look and if have can enter your text then export as line art so w u end open or import your computer does not change it to a default font it determines is "close". Had the first scan to cut and scan to print outdoor durable computers for sign industry in the state and southeast on scan to cut paying $17,000 for a black & white tractor feed scanner then a 286 computer with 287 math coprocessor, software and a converted architects pen plotter to vinyl cutter at a nearly $50k investment to cut more than the dozen fonts with accessory font modules in previous machine then moved quickly into CNC routing so happy to lay out a ready for your output machine vector line art file if have font needed.

Did these old PPU logos for the Ammo Collectors group.





__________________
A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3 G.W.T.
"If it is worth doing once...it's worth doing it a few more times to get it right." Stimpsonjcat
hueyville is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 22, 2019, 22:09   #93
Shoebox1.1
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 77589
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Dallas texas
Posts: 153
The photos and videos are very compelling. Thanks for posting those. The issues seem to be ď black and whiteĒ. That being said if my smith wasnít around and I was buying a ď new ď gun Iíd give the war hammer a shot
Shoebox1.1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 23, 2019, 05:58   #94
DakTo
MadMinuteDude
Platinum Contributor
 
DakTo's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 9689
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Indian River, Florida
Posts: 8,295
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911Ron View Post
Your double standards and stupidity is growing old.
You have once committed not to read nor respond to my post and yet here you are as a knob polisher once again.
I see your past stalking me in the PM's did not work as I refused to answer any of your nonsense.
If you can not run with the big dogs you need to stay on the porch.
__________________
NEVER touch another man's fries.
DakTo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 23, 2019, 06:13   #95
DakTo
MadMinuteDude
Platinum Contributor
 
DakTo's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 9689
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Indian River, Florida
Posts: 8,295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoebox1.1 View Post
The photos and videos are very compelling. Thanks for posting those. The issues seem to be “ black and white”. That being said if my smith wasn’t around and I was buying a “ new “ gun I’d give the war hammer a shot
Compelling how?
Dremeling the inside of the magazine well and under the rails creates contours, takes the area out of square & plumb and weakening the receiver. Any cracking of the receiver due to any type of kaboom would eliminate any responsibility and liability of DSA.

If you experience a tight receiver well, work a magazine enough times until it seats properly and locks in.
__________________
NEVER touch another man's fries.
DakTo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 23, 2019, 07:54   #96
gunplumber
Arrogant Bastard
Gold Contributor
 
gunplumber's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 96
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Surprise, AZ
Posts: 25,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by DakTo View Post
Compelling how?
Dremeling the inside of the magazine well and under the rails creates contours, takes the area out of square & plumb and weakening the receiver. Any cracking of the receiver due to any type of kaboom would eliminate any responsibility and liability of DSA.
Is there any subject on which you are not completely full of shit? Do you even know what "square and plumb" means?


Quote:
If you experience a tight receiver well, work a magazine enough times until it seats properly and locks in.
That should be a new signature line.

If the door doesn't fit in the frame, slam it until it does!
__________________
T. Mark Graham, Master Gunsmith
Arizona Response Systems, LLC
gunplumber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23, 2019, 08:05   #97
hkshooter
Mighty Fine!
Silver Contributor
 
hkshooter's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 5391
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Central Indiana
Posts: 7,025
Quote:
Originally Posted by DakTo View Post
Compelling how?
Dremeling the inside of the magazine well and under the rails creates contours, takes the area out of square & plumb and weakening the receiver. Any cracking of the receiver due to any type of kaboom would eliminate any responsibility and liability of DSA.

If you experience a tight receiver well, work a magazine enough times until it seats properly and locks in.
This is just plain dumb and I'm beginning to wonder if you've ever seen an FAL receiver at all. I can't wrap my head around knowing you have but then still making statements like these. Your already low credibility just took a final dive, Dak. There's nothing you can say that can be taken seriously.
__________________
"2A was specifically for, as you note, dealing with what is no longer feasible within the system. This applies to all organs of the state, whether they carry badges, gavels or law degrees."
Mark Graham
hkshooter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 23, 2019, 08:18   #98
DakTo
MadMinuteDude
Platinum Contributor
 
DakTo's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 9689
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Indian River, Florida
Posts: 8,295
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunplumber View Post
Is there any subject on which you are not completely full of shit? Do you even know what "square and plumb" means?

That should be a new signature line.

If the door doesn't fit in the frame, slam it until it does!
If you stop telling lies about me I will stop telling the truth about you.
__________________
NEVER touch another man's fries.
DakTo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 23, 2019, 08:22   #99
gunplumber
Arrogant Bastard
Gold Contributor
 
gunplumber's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 96
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Surprise, AZ
Posts: 25,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by DakTo View Post
If you stop telling lies about me I will stop telling the truth about you.
(((snort!)))

Do you actually think gaslighting will dig you out of your hole?
__________________
T. Mark Graham, Master Gunsmith
Arizona Response Systems, LLC
gunplumber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23, 2019, 08:42   #100
1911Ron
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 17513
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ft Mudge Az
Posts: 1,477
Quote:
Originally Posted by DakTo View Post
You have once committed not to read nor respond to my post and yet here you are as a knob polisher once again.
I see your past stalking me in the PM's did not work as I refused to answer any of your nonsense.
If you can not run with the big dogs you need to stay on the porch.
2 PMs does not constitute stalking, besides you couldn't answer as you know the truth and can't deny it.

Knob polisher eh? You are pathetic!
__________________
FAL convert.
"Too old to fight, too slow to run, but I can still shoot pretty good!"
1911Ron is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:05.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©1998-2018 The FAL Files