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Old February 14, 2019, 14:20   #1
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DSA current Israeli engravings

Hey all, just went through the shop and wanted to show everyone a sample of how the Izzy engravings are coming out.

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Old February 14, 2019, 14:28   #2
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What's the translation in English?
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Old February 14, 2019, 14:42   #3
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Self loading rifle FN 7.62 No. 1 Mark A.
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Old February 14, 2019, 15:13   #4
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Not bad.
Any time frame for the next run of regular type 1 receivers?
How about Izzy barrels?
People have been saying good things about the stuff produced this year.
I'll be picking those both up whenever the next batches come out.
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Old February 14, 2019, 15:19   #5
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We are about 2 weeks out on barrels so far and I don't have a date on the type 1s. We have to catch up on rifle orders. I will post when I know more.
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Old February 14, 2019, 15:23   #6
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Close, but no cigar


Last edited by SAFN49; February 14, 2019 at 15:42.
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Old February 14, 2019, 15:30   #7
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Originally Posted by DSA_REP View Post
We are about 2 weeks out on barrels so far and I don't have a date on the type 1s. We have to catch up on rifle orders. I will post when I know more.
Thanks.

SAFN49 for the love of G*d pls resize that image, its yuge.
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Old February 14, 2019, 15:52   #8
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Not an improvement. Geez! It's the ONLY THING SPECIAL about the receiver.

The characters on the crest are completely unrecognizable.
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Old February 14, 2019, 16:01   #9
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Originally Posted by SAFN49 View Post
Close, but no cigar
You are wrong (AGAIN!)

The markings are correct for a Romat 1A (except there should be periods after the F N - at least there are on my images.)


Self-loading Rifle FN 7.62mm Rov've Mittan F.N. 7.62 or Model 1A Mark Aleph and Model 3 Degen Gimel) ROMAT

Your image is a model 2 Makleon (beit) - which is unusual as I've only got files of the type 1 (aleph) and type 3. (gimel)

(heavy barrel) Machine Gun light 7.62mm type (1-3) Makle'a Kal Degen (Makleon) model aleph/beit/gimel
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Old February 14, 2019, 16:18   #10
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Not an improvement. Geez! It's the ONLY THING SPECIAL about the receiver.

The characters on the crest are completely unrecognizable.



Well that's disappointing. I've ordered one of the "soldier" models and I was really hoping they would crisp up the engraving.


I guess on the plus side, it will never be mistaken for a deliberate forgery.

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Old February 14, 2019, 16:49   #11
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The markings are correct for a Romat 1A (except there should be periods after the F N - at least there are on my images.)

What would have been the correct configuration for a real Romat 1A rifle?

Did it ever come with a Belgium combo device or was it on a later version.


I'm trying to make up my mind on going threaded or not.
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Old February 14, 2019, 16:49   #12
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The translation is

מקלעקל [מקלעיו] 7.62 ם`ם
machine gun is 7.62 cm (I think it's supposed to be mm not cm.)

and

דגמ ב
Model B
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Old February 14, 2019, 16:50   #13
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At least they are trying to make improvements. It looks better than the first ones that came out. I just purchased a couple of the Apex kits, and will be ordering the DSA Israeli receivers for them when they finally come available. I also ordered two of their type ones back in December, and will hopefully be receiving them sometime soon. They said two weeks delivery back three weeks ago, which seems to be typical for DSA's follow through. They were waiting to get them back from heat treating back then. So apparently they open them up to ordering before they actually have them to deliver to customers.

Interesting business practices.

At least I can still buy parts from them. So many of the old suppliers are either out of business or no longer support FALs.
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Old February 14, 2019, 17:23   #14
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Originally Posted by SAFN49 View Post
The translation is

מקלעקל [מקלעיו] 7.62 ם`ם
machine gun is 7.62 cm (I think it's supposed to be mm not cm.)

and

דגמ ב
Model B
The translation is what I said it was. What part of MAKLEON makes you think it's a ROMAT? And CM would be gimel mem. mem mem is (obviously) milimeters.

well, we know you are stupid - you've proved it time and time again. I'm torn between the glee I feel in rubbing your fool nose in it, and the boredom I feel from endless repetition.

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Old February 14, 2019, 17:32   #15
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What would have been the correct configuration for a real Romat 1A rifle?
Did it ever come with a Belgium combo device or was it on a later version.
I'm trying to make up my mind on going threaded or not.
The non-threaded type A barrel is the earlier one, for the three prong bayonet. The earliest also having the T48 style handguards. In my opinion, it is iconic, and if you have the choice, I'd go with that.

Later ones, sure Belgian combo - and then there are ones retrofitted, so they will have the lug as well as the combo.

I do not recall ever seeing a Belgian long. But Izzy grenade launchers are out there. That would jazz up the bare muzzle.

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Old February 14, 2019, 20:21   #16
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Itís the only DSA gun Iíve ever been interested. At least their trying
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Old February 14, 2019, 20:27   #17
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"they're" damn it.


Sorry. FKN shit is getting so old.
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Old February 14, 2019, 23:22   #18
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Originally Posted by gunplumber View Post
You are wrong (AGAIN!)

Your image is a model 2 Makleon (beit) - which is unusual as I've only got files of the type 1 (aleph) and type 3. (gimel)

(heavy barrel) Machine Gun light 7.62mm type (1-3) Makle'a Kal Degen (Makleon) model aleph/beit/gimel
The image, which you have never seen before and only have files on the type 1 and 3, is a type 2 receiver, machine gun in 7.62mm, model B.

Since you are better at translating Hebrew than any of the programs available online I suggest that you give up gunsmithing and focus on writing Hebrew to English translation computer programs.

and the comment on close but no cigar was a dig on the poor quality of engraving vs an original.
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Old February 15, 2019, 02:00   #19
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DSA, just kbiw that there are MANY, MANY people out there thrilled with a chance to own one of these. Count me as one. Frankly, all this about the engravings is over the top to me. I do not habe the tools, time, or experience to build one, so I am happy to just buy one. I figure its as close to a real israeli I can realistically get.

Also, in before the 'we have a SHILL here crowd....'

Not shilling. Not connected in any way. Just happy to be getting one. Hopefully soon.
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Old February 15, 2019, 03:09   #20
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DSA, just kbiw that there are MANY, MANY people out there thrilled with a chance to own one of these. Count me as one. Frankly, all this about the engravings is over the top to me. I do not habe the tools, time, or experience to build one, so I am happy to just buy one. I figure its as close to a real israeli I can realistically get.

Also, in before the 'we have a SHILL here crowd....'

Not shilling. Not connected in any way. Just happy to be getting one. Hopefully soon.
Some of like us like to strive for perfection knowing full well that thereís always room for improvement. Criticism is ultimately what drives product improvements.
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Old February 15, 2019, 03:31   #21
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lets be real, the guys who care about the details will just get something unmarked and do it right themselves. i think they're doing well for the demographic they're producing them for-- namely people who just want a somewhat matching receiver for the parts kit, and want it at a good price point. they see the star of saturn and are happy with it, crisp lines be damned. not what i would have done personally, but i can't slam them for it either since everyone knows exactly what they're getting into (in this case).

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Old February 15, 2019, 05:45   #22
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"they're" damn it.


Sorry. FKN shit is getting so old.
Well, thankfully there are people to nitpick right?
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Old February 15, 2019, 07:49   #23
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lets be real, the guys who care about the details will just get something unmarked and do it right themselves.
I have customers who would love to buy unmarked receivers with Serial number in mag well.. DSA does not offer them.
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Old February 15, 2019, 08:08   #24
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The image, which you have never seen before and only have files on the type 1 and 3, is a type 2 receiver, machine gun in 7.62mm, model B.
It is exactly what I said it was, you fcuking moron. Makle'a Kal Degen (Makleon)

And no, while I still remember a little of my Berlitz Hebrew for Travelers, and can order food and ask for directions, I don't read or write. When I was going through Parachute cross-training with the IDF, everyone spoke English. I don't read Hebrew and only speak a little of it. Yellowhand does. But there is translation and transliteration, which is how we go from "rifle load" to "self loading".

But I do have excellent research skills and an extensive reference library.

And since I am not a fcuking moron, I can differentiate מ"מ from ס"מ.

We remember from your epic stupidity in the Canadian mag catch thread, that you are incapable of discerning even large differences in things. And your shitty welding and illegal machinegun postings show you have no attention to detail. So I guess we should not be surprised.
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Old February 15, 2019, 08:13   #25
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I understand wanting the best. I feel though, that all things considered, these ARE the best. Notvtrue? Go find a factory made rifle made by a reputable company in the business for 20 years making a rifle long out of production legally for us thats honestly about 90% close to original. Hey, you may get a lemon right? Then THEY will fix it. I mean my God guys....say lightning strikes the same place 6 times and they cannot fix it....You will then get a refund, exchange, or have a fairly valuable parts kit worse case scenario.

Guys, not shilling. Just trying to level the field, as I feel we are being maybe too hard. With my luck maybe I will be the one on here with issues with mine. I still appreciate what they have done. Think everyone needs to step back, and remember that no one else is making recievers like them, building rifles, any of this.
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Old February 15, 2019, 08:18   #26
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Der Israeli skript kampfen.

Can you die of constipation? I am a little concerned how full of shit you are.
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Old February 15, 2019, 08:20   #27
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At least their trying
That's your standard?

Thom has already demonstrated that he is capable of doing a far more complex laser engraving. He has stated that he (they) CHOOSE not to do good work, because it takes too long.

To which I suggested he (they) raise the price to cover the slower process of laser engraving. Because to go through the effort of the Izzy barrels and Izzy markings and then make those markings so they are illegible - defies all logic and reason.
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Old February 15, 2019, 08:32   #28
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I would be interested if the Israeli markings are part of the molding process and not an actual engraving.
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Old February 15, 2019, 08:52   #29
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Maybe it's time for DSA to stop selling loose receivers.
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Old February 15, 2019, 10:19   #30
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Sorry I misspelled Fu#k me.. damn
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Old February 15, 2019, 11:54   #31
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Maybe it's time for DSA to stop selling loose receivers.
Chris, I am positive our entire community would not share that suggestion. Personally I think their built FAL's are a bit over priced and some of us can build more affordable FAL's.

Actually this entire thread is like Pelosi and Schumer raking on the President no matter how productive he becomes.

So, would all the buyers of clean DSA Israeli receivers and builds rather spend an extra $75+ to laser engrave their own receiver? 馬馬虎虎 ma ma hu hu.
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Old February 15, 2019, 12:29   #32
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So, would all the buyers of clean DSA Israeli receivers and builds rather spend an extra $75+ to laser engrave their own receiver?
yes, absolutely. Both to get clean engraving, and to get engraving for a specific build.

People aren't buying Izzy rifles for a generic shooter. They are buying them because they are Israeli. That is a different market than those who would be perfectly satisfied with a generic type 3 50:00. And the only thing that makes this receiver "Israeli" is the markings. And they are poor - especially in the context of the beautiful laser engraving Thom did on my customer's Mexican FAL.

I would love receivers that were blank except for DSA's markings inside the mag well (which are also pretty sloppy). I have people pestering me to finish the vector files for the Chilean, Peruvian and other markings.
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Old February 15, 2019, 12:33   #33
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Der Israeli skript kampfen.

Can you die of constipation? I am a little concerned how full of shit you are.
If you could die of constipation i would thought it would be you, as full shit as you are.
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Old February 15, 2019, 12:44   #34
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I understand wanting the best. I feel though, that all things considered, these ARE the best. Notvtrue? Go find a factory made rifle made by a reputable company in the business for 20 years making a rifle long out of production legally for us thats honestly about 90% close to original. Hey, you may get a lemon right? Then THEY will fix it. I mean my God guys....say lightning strikes the same place 6 times and they cannot fix it....You will then get a refund, exchange, or have a fairly valuable parts kit worse case scenario.

Guys, not shilling. Just trying to level the field, as I feel we are being maybe too hard. With my luck maybe I will be the one on here with issues with mine. I still appreciate what they have done. Think everyone needs to step back, and remember that no one else is making recievers like them, building rifles, any of this.
Lets say you buy a car, you expect it to run and drive straight right? How many trips back to the dealer are you willing to make to fix it?

The point i am trying to make is people expect their riFal to work the first time out not have the same problem as others have had and could not fix, DSA has sold warped or out of spec receivers knowingly, people have returned them to DSA only to have them returned in the same condition and told no problem found or it was fixed.

So are you willing to accept mediocre workmanship? Because if you are buy away!
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Old February 15, 2019, 12:47   #35
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Guys, not shilling. Just trying to level the field, as I feel we are being maybe too hard. With my luck maybe I will be the one on here with issues with mine. I still appreciate what they have done. Think everyone needs to step back, and remember that no one else is making recievers like them, building rifles, any of this.
To be fair, they did earn this reputation themselves. Shady business practices burn, those memories won't die easy, if ever. However they do seem to be improving, and I think the DSA rep account interactions are mostly positive. These latest receivers seem to be functional, at least.

Perhaps this is a new era where they're done shooting themselves in the foot? ��
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Old February 15, 2019, 14:19   #36
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So, would all the buyers of clean DSA Israeli receivers and builds rather spend an extra $75+ to laser engrave their own receiver? 馬馬虎虎 ma ma hu hu.


I would. Especially considering that DSA is willing to charge $50 just for the color fill on the engraving.

Perhaps I have more money than sense but I would like the rifle to be identical to the rifle the parts kit was taken from. If the sales rep were to email me and offer to have the crest perfectly laser engraved for an additional $50 or even $75, I would agree instantly. (cussing all the while) I have already spent more than $75 purchasing as many of the correct accessories as I could for this rifle. A rifle for which I haven't even gotten an ETA yet.

As I understand it, the EU has changed their firearms export laws unfavorably to the people with warehouses full of milsurp (of all types), and so we can expect to see a lot of parts kits being sold into our market in the next year as they cannot reasonably expect to sell the complete rifles in the near future.

The idea of DSA building perfectly replicated FALs from various countries, identical down to the engravings, save for the DSA serial number hidden in the mag well is, well, it's an exciting marketing idea. A real additional value to the American collector I would think. JRA has done something similar to this with the Chinese Arsenal 66 Underfolders that Classic is selling. Bought a real rifle from Europe, disassembled it and discarded (or sold) the original receiver and barrel outside the US, and then made very near replica receivers and barrels, down to the Chinese characters on them, and then assembled them for sale here.

Would I prefer to have the complete original rifle like I could if I lived in Europe? Why yes, yes I would. But until our import laws are changed, this would be the best I could get.

YMMV

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Old February 15, 2019, 16:17   #37
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Valid point, ie, car buying. But cars are made about 70% by robots. These are assembled 100% by PEOPLE. People make mistakes. I am going to continue to be positive, supportive of DSA for their efforts to give us what we so clearly want. Ahain, mayne mine will have issues, maybe not. I am though going to give them a chance here.

Man, the ones I have seen look GREAT. To me, engravings and all.
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Old February 15, 2019, 16:20   #38
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Hey all, just went through the shop and wanted to show everyone a sample of how the Izzy engravings are coming out.

Thanks, looks like a vast improvement over the early builds. My main concern will be the Performance of the Gun anyway.
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Old February 15, 2019, 18:24   #39
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Valid point, ie, car buying. But cars are made about 70% by robots. These are assembled 100% by PEOPLE. People make mistakes. I am going to continue to be positive, supportive of DSA for their efforts to give us what we so clearly want. Again, maybe mine will have issues, maybe not. I am though going to give them a chance here.

Man, the ones I have seen look GREAT. To me, engravings and all.
I agree people make mistakes, BUT a good quality control would catch the problems that show up (mis-drilled bolt catch, misaligned ejector block....) and when you are told it's fixed and it's not or they didn't look at it.....

To be fair i wish DSA good luck and a long and healthy business, i have bought two lowers a Fixed and a Para both worked and the Para springs were judged to be good strength wise, the only thing that i changed on the Para is the selector switch as the one that came on it was cast and i didn't like the looks of it. My upper is a early DS serial number Type I and it works just fine.
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Old February 16, 2019, 00:24   #40
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Thanks, looks like a vast improvement over the early builds. My main concern will be the Performance of the Gun anyway.
Please see my original Izzy pic. This repop is not even close to original quality/detail.
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Old February 16, 2019, 00:50   #41
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And no, while I still remember a little of my Berlitz Hebrew for Travelers, and can order food and ask for directions, I don't read or write. When I was going through Parachute cross-training with the IDF, everyone spoke English. I don't read Hebrew and only speak a little of it. Yellowhand does. But there is translation and transliteration, which is how we go from "rifle load" to "self loading".

We remember from your epic stupidity in the Canadian mag catch thread, that you are incapable of discerning even large differences in things. And your shitty welding and illegal machinegun postings show you have no attention to detail. So I guess we should not be surprised.
Nigga please. I worked for the owner of Israeli airport security, both he and his second in command were Mossad.
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Old February 16, 2019, 07:12   #42
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DSArms has been in business longer than and before most of you knew what a FAL was. Their business has been constant since the 1980's when they originally sold parts and over the years stepped into manufacturing. They extended their business over the years through diversification when most or all others making FAL parts have gone out of business.

Long term successful businesses bounce back after some errors by standing by and guaranteeing their products. All businesses experience some errors including many of the giants of American industry.
Any disparage about DSA knowingly and selling bad products is nonsense and only parroted by those with no corroboration.

I would encourage our members to avoid lockstep with those whom have a personal agenda.
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Old February 16, 2019, 08:17   #43
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Any disparage about DSA knowingly and selling bad products is nonsense and only parroted by those with no corroboration.
You are wrong and you know it. Yet you continue to beat that phantom drum.

I have no dog in this pissing match but as I have said recently here, I give props to DSA for moving on and showing an effort to improve and even diversify their FAL products. If one doesn't fail on occasion along the way then he isn't trying hard enough. How those failures are handled is key to being respected and successful.
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Old February 16, 2019, 08:38   #44
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Nigga please. I worked for the owner of Israeli airport security, both he and his second in command were Mossad.
Your inability to differentiate CM from MM is simply an illustration of your epic stupidity.

As is your inability to differentiate Canadian from UK mag catches; demilled receivers from illegal machineguns; quality tig welding from porosity-filled garbage (Yeah I saw your advertisement in services for Bren welding - what horrible work!)
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Old February 16, 2019, 08:41   #45
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Any disparage about DSA knowingly and selling bad products is nonsense and only parroted by those with no corroboration.
You are a liar. Not a very good one, which makes you kindof funny (in a sad way).

But as a known-liar, nothing you say on any subject carries any weight. Doesn't that annoy you?

You could make some comment about the sun rising in the east, and everyone will still assume you are lying. And that's why it's sad. I have little empathy for anyone, but how horrible it must be for you - to be so without merit, worth, or value.
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Old February 16, 2019, 13:14   #46
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Please see my original Izzy pic. This repop is not even close to original quality/detail.
I saw it and it's acceptable to me otherwise I would never have ordered one, Like I stated before my main concern will be overall performance of the Rifle.

I don't expect it to be perfect it is after all a clone not an original. If it was priced @2.5K it would be an issue but not at 1.5K. In other words I can live with that.
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Old February 16, 2019, 14:13   #47
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You are wrong and you know it. Yet you continue to beat that phantom drum.

I have no dog in this pissing match but as I have said recently here, I give props to DSA for moving on and showing an effort to improve and even diversify their FAL products. If one doesn't fail on occasion along the way then he isn't trying hard enough. How those failures are handled is key to being respected and successful.
Please state your source where DSA knowingly and willingly sold defective receivers and parts.
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Old February 16, 2019, 14:18   #48
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You are a liar. Not a very good one, which makes you kindof funny (in a sad way).

But as a known-liar, nothing you say on any subject carries any weight. Doesn't that annoy you?

You could make some comment about the sun rising in the east, and everyone will still assume you are lying. And that's why it's sad. I have little empathy for anyone, but how horrible it must be for you - to be so without merit, worth, or value.
Since you are the true source here of propagating the rumors & falsehood of DSA selling defective parts over the years, please state your source where DSA knowingly and willingly is selling defective receivers and parts.
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Old February 16, 2019, 14:19   #49
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It seems to me I flushed a few parrots out of the bush without mentioning a single name.

Gunplumber: "... I have little empathy for anyone..." I'm sure that is an understatement.
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Last edited by DakTo; February 16, 2019 at 14:31.
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Old February 16, 2019, 14:22   #50
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Read any of my threads on the subject. You know the ones - because you pipe in with your "DSA RA RA RA!" and I bitch-slap you.
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