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Old November 24, 2018, 15:07   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DakTo View Post
The first time I've seen the entire lower cleaned without removing the wood & parts.
You might consider now removing all the parts and clean underneath and dry the metal to prevent rusting.
Oh, I had. I just put it back on to compare the 2 photos. Not my first rodeo when it comes to cleaning wooden stocks. Had a couple SKSs’ covered in cosmoline and I used the same tactic on years ago. 😀👍
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Old November 24, 2018, 18:59   #202
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Old November 25, 2018, 09:06   #203
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Originally Posted by pistolero1911 View Post
Here's what I received.



The good: Belgian lower, serial No 16XXX, with five digit bolt and bolt carrier. Non-matching numbers but good solid metal. NO RUST!!! Barrel has decent rifling and seems to not have been abused. No pitting on lower or barrel. Came with FA ejector block and safety/auto sear.

The bad: Flash hider is split, will need to be replaced. Stock smells like old leather and the wood is a bit "greasy". I don't think it is cosmoline, don't really know what is on it. Dust cover is a bit beat up, will probably be ok once I straighten it up a bit. Carry handle is very worn, no big deal. Fiberglass hand guards have a name carved into one side " Marvin el Hondur " = lots of character.

Overall impression: This will make a nice addition to my FAL collection. It's like a Cuban contract in many ways, I like it. Worth the price.

Lower: 16496
Barrel: 14053
Bolt: 10653
Carrier: 29119
My kit looks very similar to yours, from your picture but, has all metal handguards(G1?). The gas plug was upside down, took me a minute on that but, all is well. Butt plate appears welded on the inside but, will work. Stock is drilled/punched out on top, to facilitate attaching sling to top rear just like a lot of photos in this thread? Screw was missing from the flash suppressor but, managed to find a no. 4 metric at Ace that fit but, filed socket head that won't go into the head recess but, works.
Steve

Last edited by S.B.; November 25, 2018 at 09:32.
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Old November 25, 2018, 10:21   #204
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Looks like your did good on your kit.....Welcome aboard!

Last edited by Southern 7.62; November 25, 2018 at 10:22. Reason: Typo
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Old November 25, 2018, 11:07   #205
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Thank you, Southern 7.62. I've a little free time this morning so, I took the stock off my kit and plan to do as LIVE_FREE_OR_DIE did with his but, I have a question for those who obtain stock with two holes in the top near the butt plate, wiill you fill these holes before trying to refinish them? If so, what will you use to fill them with, wood dowels, wood filler, etc., or just leave as is, unsightly as it is/ surely not as issued?
Steve
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Old November 25, 2018, 11:54   #206
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I ordered mine the day that the email went out. The parts are in relatively good condition other than the buttstock and forend, which I will replace. My bore looks good.

This will be my first FAL build and I'm officially in the market for a receiver. I have a full machine shop and build bolt guns regularly but I'm just starting down this road.

Appreciate all of the great info on this forum.
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Old November 25, 2018, 21:04   #207
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MY Kit and some smithy questions

Here's my "mockup" (barrel not completely installed and not headspaced). I'm drinking from a fire-hose with the info from this thread and everywhere else I can find so haven't organized it all quite yet, but I'm just authorized on this site this morning. So I haven't been able to ask questions so far and I'm pretty sure I don't know what I don't know yet.

https://i346.photobucket.com/albums/...pshl8ma6u5.jpg

https://i346.photobucket.com/albums/...psm8ltfrfx.png

This is my first FAL and FAL build. I ordered another kit when I saw the condition of this one but it's "still in the warehouse" so I hope it's a good one and not the dregs. I wanted to use parts from both kits, especially the locking shoulders, since I have no assortment to draw from. With a US made fire-control group, a replacement gas piston, and US magazine I'm 922r compliant without putting on a US muzzle device or anything else.

The erosion gauges haven't arrived so I don't have the T/M measurements yet. Weird since I should have measured some Garands already. But the barrel vice and receiver wrench have arrived so I can get the barrel installed as soon as you guys help me decide the timing... or send me to the proper place to read up on it. I do subscribe to RTFM. I've read three things about barrel installations. Can't resolve between 1 and 2 below.

1. Between 10 and 11 o'clock BTDC (45 degrees, where mine winds up handtightened)
2. Between 15 and 20 degrees BTDC (I'd have to take some metal off of the barrel shoulder)
3. I've read a torque spec somewhere but can't find it now. Perhaps it's supposed to be at 12 o'clock as the specified torque is reached... or at least maximum torque not to be exceeded?

I've use the Jerry Kuhnhausen books on Mausers and 1911 pistols and I'd like references (unless it's all on this site!) to any and all FAL armorer's information. I've heard "The FAL Rifle" by Stevens/Rutten is excellent but don't know if it's only history or includes smithing data. I have the DSA FAL User Manual and it's good but no barrel timing or headspace info.

This kit:
Lower: 4777 (If the triangle tells the story it's Cuban)
Barrel: 1153
Bolt: 14719
Bolt Carrier: 2272

I've enjoyed this site for the past weeks... thanks for the help. Any of that is appreciated.
Ron

https://i346.photobucket.com/albums/...psxmglaeoh.jpg

https://i346.photobucket.com/albums/...psqbrzgzwb.jpg

https://i346.photobucket.com/albums/...psqmvbacww.jpg
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Old November 25, 2018, 21:19   #208
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But the barrel vice and receiver wrench have arrived so I can get the barrel installed as soon as you guys help me decide the timing... or send me to the proper place to read up on it. I do subscribe to RTFM. I've read three things about barrel installations. Can't resolve between 1 and 2 below.

1. Between 10 and 11 o'clock BTDC (45 degrees, where mine winds up handtightened)
2. Between 15 and 20 degrees BTDC (I'd have to take some metal off of the barrel shoulder)
3. I've read a torque spec somewhere but can't find it now. Perhaps it's supposed to be at 12 o'clock as the specified torque is reached... or at least maximum torque not to be exceeded?
Don't worry about any numeric "torque spec."

Just shave enough off the barrel-shoulder that you a make "the triangle" when the barrel is hand-tight. Then wrench it from there. Don't forget the handguard ring. Before turning the wrench, be sure to put a charging handle (backwards) in the rail-slot so you don't mash the rail slot with the wrench.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg 11 o'clock - red triangle.jpg (24.6 KB, 8 views)
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Old November 25, 2018, 21:36   #209
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Originally Posted by W.E.G. View Post
Don't worry about any numeric "torque spec."

Just shave enough off the barrel-shoulder that you a make "the triangle" when the barrel is hand-tight. Then wrench it from there. Don't forget the handguard ring. Before turning the wrench, be sure to put a charging handle (backwards) in the rail-slot so you don't mash the rail slot with the wrench.

I'm going to make a suggestion here... Before shaving a barrel, torque it to 75-80 LB FT three or 4 times with oiled threads. THEN see where it hand times. Some of the newer receivers have some sort of coating (not Park) that will give a false hand timing indication. Plus it helps to "settle" the threads in too.
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Old November 25, 2018, 21:37   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.E.G. View Post
Don't worry about any numeric "torque spec."

Just shave enough off the barrel-shoulder that you a make "the triangle" when the barrel is hand-tight. Then wrench it from there. Don't forget the handguard ring. Before turning the wrench, be sure to put a charging handle (backwards) in the rail-slot so you don't mash the rail slot with the wrench.

Excellent way to explain and show this for us FNG(s) in kit building.

THANKS !!!
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Old November 25, 2018, 22:17   #211
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A few more photos and another question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by W.E.G. View Post
... Before turning the wrench, be sure to put a charging handle (backwards) in the rail-slot so you don't mash the rail slot with the wrench.
Perfect. I've read nowhere that I should use any lubricants on the barrel threads. Dry-torque then? The threads are in very good shape.

I ordered a new charging handle thinking I'd need it for 922r but I'm liking the one that came on it. Wouldn't have known to use it to protect the slot.

Can you tell if any of these pieces are actually from the Chilean contract? I built a hunting rifle years ago on a 1938 Chilean Mauser receiver that's one of my favorites... I know. They don't have anything to do with one another but still. Here are the hand-guards and barrel. The metal on the right HG is terrible and it's cracked where the metal was pried up underneath. But I can likely fix those things if I want to keep them.

https://i346.photobucket.com/albums/...psryfoguxg.jpg

https://i346.photobucket.com/albums/...psf8zoqy1d.jpg

https://i346.photobucket.com/albums/...psqmiesiaa.jpg

I'll follow the 'torque-three-times' with oily threads advice as well 12v71!

Thanks!
Ron

Last edited by pcar916; November 25, 2018 at 23:53. Reason: Additional Information
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Old November 26, 2018, 08:33   #212
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Please, list all the parts I must change out to make this kit legal to own and are they readily available?
Steve
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Old November 26, 2018, 09:17   #213
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922r Compliance Parts List Sources

My guides: I'm new to the FAL so any nuances or interesting subtleties are appreciated. but 922r applies to lots of imports.

On the FAL seven (7) parts must be replaced from the list as it applies to the FAL. Different for different firearms. There is an introduction on each site to each of the lists below.

On the the FALForum there's a calculator that includes sources.

http://www.falforum.com/wbb/index.ph...ts-calculator/

From the GunWiki.com site here's another:

http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/LegalFederal922rParts

My Choices: Note... springs don't count
For me to get seven US made parts from the list below.
US made magazine = 3 parts
-Magazine body
-Magazine Follower
-Magazine Floorplate

US made fire control group = 3 parts
-Trigger
-Hammer
-Sear

Gas Piston = 1 part

Notes:
- I could use US made magazine parts in a metric magazine body but that would only be 2 parts. For a 7th I could use either a US made muzzle attachment (i.e. brake or flash hider) or a US made charging handle.
- I tried to find a couple of 10-round magazines but couldn't find any last week.

The list...
Receiver
Barrel
Mounting block (doesn't exist on FALs)
Muzzle attachment (Must be US made)
Bolt
Bolt carrier
Gas piston
Trigger housing (FAL lower receiver)
Operating Rod (charging handle)
Trigger
Hammer
Sear
Disconnector (doesn't exist on FALs)
Buttstock
Pistol grip
Forearm (handguard)
Magazine body
Magazine Follower
Magazine Floorplate
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Old November 26, 2018, 13:53   #214
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922R? What's that?
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Old November 26, 2018, 15:00   #215
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I was in Chile from 1984-86, and I got a pretty good view of an FAL being used by a soldier guarding a government building. The receiver said MADE IN BRAZIL on it, so there are likely some IMBEL manufacture. They used alot of Taurus and Rossi sidearm, too.
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Old November 26, 2018, 15:21   #216
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Afternoon guys and gals. I am Finally able to post numbers from my Sarco Chilean kit. Should build into a nice 50.00 clone. Numbers are as follow:


Bolt- 3470
Bolt Carrier- 13303
Barrel- 21655
Lower (non triangle)- 18562
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Old November 26, 2018, 15:33   #217
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And I'll post the numbers from mine
Lower 29038 no triangle
bolt 23518
carrier 892
barrel 21637

Steve
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Old November 26, 2018, 16:05   #218
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UPS Sucks balls.They still have no idea where my kit is.EX1
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Old November 26, 2018, 18:20   #219
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UPS Sucks balls.They still have no idea where my kit is.EX1
Well get your money back and you can buy mine. Though I blued it instead of park cause it looks awesome. Offer for EX1 only.
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Old November 27, 2018, 11:29   #220
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Mine got here yesterday. No pics yet, but ended up with a pretty good Cuban lower. Stock is heavily stained but useable. Barrel is FN, used but in decent shape considering its likely past. Gas tube is heavily corroded and will be replaced. I also ended up with pretty banged up metal G1 style handguards. I understand this would authentic for an early Cuban FAL but most were replaced with synthetic handguards. Given I paid 350 for my other Cuban lower, I'm pretty pleased with the bang for my buck.
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Old November 27, 2018, 12:49   #221
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Perfect. I've read nowhere that I should use any lubricants on the barrel threads. Dry-torque then? The threads are in very good shape.
I've used anti-seize on the barrel threads for past builds, and Magnalube for my four most recent, plus those I've wrenched on for friends. I'm only slightly concerned about the potential for galling, but I do it more for corrosion protection (granted, I do live in a desert). Either way, cheap insurance.
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Old November 28, 2018, 09:39   #222
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Anti-seize on Barrel Threads

Quote:
Originally Posted by lew View Post
I've used anti-seize on the barrel threads for past builds, and Magnalube for my four most recent... Either way, cheap insurance.
Thanks Lew.
I was concerned that it would change the torque specs if that was important. On Porsche racing head-studs the manufacturers state in bold letters to torque dry because anti-seize compound will lead to over-torquing... very bad for aluminum cases. I'm liking the idea of using some on these rifles.

SARCO told me they're shipping out my second parts kit early next week. Hope it's a bunch of nice parts. I think I'll wait to inspect that barrel before building this one and make the best out of two kits.
Ron
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Old November 28, 2018, 09:57   #223
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UPS Sucks balls.They still have no idea where my kit is.EX1
I know the feeling as they (UPS driver) stole an Argentine Para kit sold by FWRA (Mark Powell) eons ago. UPS said they delivered it to me but didn’t have my signature and they refused to pay even though it was insured. They couldn’t have my signature as I was deployed at the time and the kit was going to a friend’s house and they never received it much less signed for it. Recon Ordnance made it right and sent another kit,
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Old November 28, 2018, 18:34   #224
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Nog thanks for the offer but the kit showed finally today.Havent opened the box yet but it is here.Shout out to Liz in customer service at Sarco she kept in touch and even called today to say it was moving all of the sudden.I lost a new Argie fall bbl to FedEx took forever but was reimbursed but I didnt want the $I wanted the bbl.Thanks guys EX1
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Old November 28, 2018, 18:36   #225
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Nog thanks for the offer but the kit showed finally today.Havent opened the box yet but it is here.Shout out to Liz in customer service at Sarco she kept in touch and even called today to say it was moving all of the sudden.I lost a new Argie fall bbl to FedEx took forever but was reimbursed but I didnt want the $I wanted the bbl.Thanks guys EX1
It’s a Christmas miracle!!!
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Old November 28, 2018, 19:08   #226
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embatp nice birthday present 50th next week.Thanks EX1
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Old November 28, 2018, 19:29   #227
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embatp nice birthday present 50th next week.Thanks EX1
Tuesday the 4th?

Glad u got it. I’d miss mine even if it was the right thing to do.
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Old November 28, 2018, 20:41   #228
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The 8th.Kit is non triangle marked lower 11761 bbl bore looks nice and clean 23392. Bolt carrier 14331 and bolt 10857 .Kit looks normal for these kits used abused but will build a nice rifle.This kit looks like all the Cubans that I have had or Chilean. Hand guards brown Belgian bipod which I believe to be replacement for either wood or non bipod cut.Over all happy.Would be interested in trading my non triangle complete lower for a triangle marked complete lower if any one is interested.Thanks EX1
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Old November 28, 2018, 20:59   #229
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Been a long time since I have fondled a nice oily kit .Damn they smell good.EX1
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Old November 28, 2018, 22:19   #230
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The 8th.Kit is non triangle marked lower 11761 bbl bore looks nice and clean 23392. Bolt carrier 14331 and bolt 10857 .Kit looks normal for these kits used abused but will build a nice rifle.This kit looks like all the Cubans that I have had or Chilean. Hand guards brown Belgian bipod which I believe to be replacement for either wood or non bipod cut.Over all happy.Would be interested in trading my non triangle complete lower for a triangle marked complete lower if any one is interested.Thanks EX1
EX1- might be interested in that trade. I got two Cubans and would like one of each. Shoot me a PM with your email, and we can get the ball rolling.
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Old November 28, 2018, 22:28   #231
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Old November 28, 2018, 23:33   #232
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I'm going to make a suggestion here... Before shaving a barrel, torque it to 75-80 LB FT three or 4 times with oiled threads. THEN see where it hand times. Some of the newer receivers have some sort of coating (not Park) that will give a false hand timing indication. Plus it helps to "settle" the threads in too.
I support this message.
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Old November 29, 2018, 08:32   #233
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Mine looks well used and in good condition (The barrel is in great condition). The butt stock got a Big “A” imprinted and also a name “Mikna” lightly scratched on and also, the vise tire marks. What is unusual, is that I got a set of metal STG handguards (Why is this? Also, right side looks like it was bashed against a tree). I only bought it to get the original Belgium parts for my Saudi build. May build a Frankenfal with the rest.

Here are my kit stats:

Bolt- 9478
Bolt Carrier- 28037
Barrel- 13992
Lower (non triangle)- 24622



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Old November 29, 2018, 22:08   #234
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My stain remover of choice Zip-Strip. So far after only 2 applications and some brass brush work, the wood has leached out the majority of the filth. Maybe 1 or 2 more good applications and i’ll have a bare naked stock. Not much effort for decent results:
Original-
2-FAB6355-39-CB-487-E-8715-343998-F3-B2-FB

Zip-Strip-
52057516-8-F88-4-CF0-8-DE2-351343-D4-E211

Almost Bare Stock-
8211-BB7-F-7-FC3-4-B88-A7-D6-CDC0-D7885-B2-B
How much ironing(dent removal) did you do to get it like this? Mine will need a lot many dents and gouges and the top near the butt plate has been drilled nail driven to accept sling mount..
Steve
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Old November 30, 2018, 11:51   #235
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Question about the Metal finish on the Chocolate Hand Guards of the Chilean Kits.

My Chilean kit came with the Chocolate Hand Guards and they are definitely restorable.

Some Clear Satin really made the Chocolate Pop and looks great!

The front metal took a bit of time and work to get all of the dents out and have the left and right sides all line up. Finish is all gone on the outside but appears to have some Dark Grey paint left on the inside.

Does the metal on these Chocolate Hand Guards actually have a Dark Grey finish? Or am I just looking at a faded out Black? What color would be correct to refinish this metal? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.
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Old November 30, 2018, 14:22   #236
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Question about the Metal finish on the Chocolate Hand Guards of the Chilean Kits.

My Chilean kit came with the Chocolate Hand Guards and they are definitely restorable.

Some Clear Satin really made the Chocolate Pop and looks great!

The front metal took a bit of time and work to get all of the dents out and have the left and right sides all line up. Finish is all gone on the outside but appears to have some Dark Grey paint left on the inside.

Does the metal on these Chocolate Hand Guards actually have a Dark Grey finish? Or am I just looking at a faded out Black? What color would be correct to refinish this metal? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.
Like most other FN hand guard ferrules, likely black paint over gray park.
Did you sand the hand guards before refinishing or just remove many of the scratches, names and dents the best you could?
I use Gun Kote or Durocoat flat black for the metal.
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Old December 01, 2018, 10:56   #237
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I just taped off the metal ferrules, scuffed the handguards to knock down any high points, I left the character of the dings and scratches (not that bad) then I shot them with the rattle can clear satin, I wanted to get a better idea on what I had to work with.

The paint remnants on the inside metal look like a dark gun metal grey over park. Not the light Battleship grey that you see on rifles like the para's. Is grey a possibility or were they all black?
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Old December 01, 2018, 11:22   #238
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The paint remnants on the inside metal look like a dark gun metal grey over park. Not the light Battleship grey that you see on rifles like the para's. Is grey a possibility or were they all black?
It is possibly an in service field applied coating.
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Old December 01, 2018, 11:30   #239
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I just taped off the metal ferrules, scuffed the handguards to knock down any high points, I left the character of the dings and scratches (not that bad) then I shot them with the rattle can clear satin, I wanted to get a better idea on what I had to work with.

The paint remnants on the inside metal look like a dark gun metal grey over park. Not the light Battleship grey that you see on rifles like the para's. Is grey a possibility or were they all black?
The handguards that came in my kit, also brown, have dark gray paint remnants on the handguard metal.
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Old December 01, 2018, 14:52   #240
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Awesome!

So it's not just on mine that has the dark grey. I just don't have any paint remnants on the outside. So now I have to figure out what shade matches.

Thanks!
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Old December 01, 2018, 18:35   #241
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Awesome!

So it's not just on mine that has the dark grey. I just don't have any paint remnants on the outside. So now I have to figure out what shade matches.

Thanks!
Hey Beerwulfe. My handguards are warped pretty good, but if I can get them straight and the majority of the cracks/battle scars filled in, I'm going to re-paint black, but I plan to do the metal in gray. This build will look interesting on the Imbel T3 receiver I'm placing it into.
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Old December 02, 2018, 11:26   #242
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I ordered one of these a few days ago, after reading the reviews posted here. They seem pretty decent. Just curious.... how long did Sarco take to ship your order? I'm anxiously awaiting it's arrival!
Their warehouse seems to be the biggest hang up, when they told me 2 weeks before their warehouse would ship, I called back and informed them I'd just take my money back($500 orders shouldn't be so long in shipping, they shouldn't expect to operate that long on someone elses money) they told me it had aready shipped then on a couple days, was here?
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Old December 03, 2018, 14:03   #243
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SARCO Shipping times

When I called them (the Online-Order dept) about a week ago after the order was "Being processed" for a week, the guy told me it was being put together when he walked back there to check.

He then said it would be delivered to the shipping folks a day after that and would likely ship out early this week. In fact it shipped out last Friday, earlier than he expected. I'll post the condition and numbers when I get it. I hope it's a Chilean lower this time rather than a Cuban, just to have one of each.

Put simply, the SARCO (Online-Order dept) timeline between the "order-processing" and shipping steps should be a couple of weeks. A lot of you have had longer intervals but both of my parts kit orders have had about the same order time... roughly 2-3 weeks.

The USPS tracking site states that it should be here tomorrow. That means I'll put off the barrel installation until after I inspect both kits. Then I figure putting together one really nice shooter and one BFPU rifle will make me happy. I didn't notice that the metal on the right side hand-guard on this first kit is too badly damaged than I can repair in a reasonable amount of time because the fiberglass is badly delaminated there as well. What the heck, it's only time right?

Now, how to ignore the Israeli parts kits!
Ron

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Old December 03, 2018, 15:36   #244
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Now something which some of you may want to consider is lag time.
SARCO ran an ad for Chilean kits and a few of us made an effort to do a quick & positive review of the product and post photos. Then the stampede began just as the APEX BGS and G1 kits did because of the rarity of the BGS, excellent price points and positive reviews of the kits.

Now there is likely a back log in processing orders at SARCO because of the great demand and possibly all kits were not pre-sorted, bagged and immediately ready for shipment. Another possibility is staffing. A business does not double or triple the size of their staff to get the product out for a limited number of parts kits and lay off the new people when the event is over.

So, those of you whom had ordered late be patient and if you don't like the kit don't send it back. Place it on our market place and make a couple of bucks.
Those who snoozed will lose and they will likely be clambering for a Chilean/Cuban kit when all are sold. It happends here everytime after a sales event like this.
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Old December 03, 2018, 16:16   #245
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Now something which some of you may want to consider is lag time.
SARCO ran an ad for Chilean kits and a few of us made an effort to do a quick & positive review of the product and post photos. Then the stampede began just as the APEX BGS and G1 kits did because of the rarity of the BGS, excellent price points and positive reviews of the kits.

Now there is likely a back log in processing orders at SARCO because of the great demand and possibly all kits were not pre-sorted, bagged and immediately ready for shipment. Another possibility is staffing. A business does not double or triple the size of their staff to get the product out for a limited number of parts kits and lay off the new people when the event is over.

So, those of you whom had ordered late be patient and if you don't like the kit don't send it back. Place it on our market place and make a couple of bucks.
Those who snoozed will lose and they will likely be clambering for a Chilean/Cuban kit when all are sold. It happends here everytime after a sales event like this.
I also feel there is a fair chance we are getting some real SARCO mixmasters with existing warehoused barrels added to a barreless kit
A close friend ended up with a really decent barrel finish and bore wise that was in no way matching to the finish which was well worn on the rest of the parts.

He's tickled pink though needless to say
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Old December 03, 2018, 16:53   #246
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Please. Dak To what's a APEX BGS? Acronyms have always given me trouble.
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Old December 03, 2018, 17:15   #247
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Please. Dak To what's a APEX BGS? Acronyms have always given me trouble.
Steve
APEX is one of the big parts kits vendors

BGS guns were early FALs for the West German Border Guard contract. Basically G1s
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Old December 03, 2018, 17:52   #248
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Thanks, never hurts to gain knowledge.
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Old December 04, 2018, 10:02   #249
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Please. Dak To what's a APEX BGS? Acronyms have always given me trouble.
Steve
The history of APEX Bundesgrenzschutz (BGS) parts kits can be found in the Sticky section of The FN Files-Early G1's. See post #8 for my stampede warning. Several of our members ordered 5-10 or more parts kits which was a wise investment for the cost of each kit
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Old December 04, 2018, 17:22   #250
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Are these kits just being hoarded? Did I miss the build thread?
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