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Old August 09, 2010, 15:10   #201
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brasshound


Wow, you sure flip flopped on these... Your original post was...



I am new here, so maybe I just am not used to these kinds of posts..

Brasshound..
I didn't flip flop on anything. Reading comprehension is important.

I didn't buy the kits because they are missing key parts.

I said " Be cool if DSA bought 100 and made a custom #'d receiver, barrel etc.."

If DSA tools up and runs the barrels, tracks down the correct stocks and custom matches the serial numbers on the receivers to match the kits I'm in at $2k. Big difference from what you will have upon completion.
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Old August 09, 2010, 15:28   #202
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BGS #4201 reporting for duty.

This kit is all gray parkerized (no paint or bluing), early metal handguards, no letters on the gas plug just an indented V shape for rifle and a STG type front sling swivel. All parts accounted for and in very good condition. There is no letter after the serial number, and perhaps it is an "Af" model.



The second kit is scheduled to arrive on Wednesday, and I'll post it.
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Old August 09, 2010, 15:51   #203
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Nice looking lower DakTo. The A stocks are in really pretty decent shape for their age and use. The metal hgs that came with my kits were pretty damn straight as well much nicer than the earlier Turk G1 kits.The wood carry handles are pretty decent shape as well. Jeff did well on looking these over for cracked stocks and cracked wood grips. The kits I received were only missing one key part the bbl everthing else was there including type A stocks .EX1
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Old August 09, 2010, 15:54   #204
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With FAL Files members buying 2-10 kits per person, it does not take very long to sell 150 kits.

Century no doubt has quite a few more of these stashed away. Why they have not hit the market sooner is anyones guess. Perhaps Apex can get some more in stock.

I recently saw a Century made G1 for sale with a BGS Type A lower with a serial # in the 1880 range.

All of the rest of the BGS parts/ features were gone and it used a conventional plastic hump back stock which looked horrible with the Type A lower.
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Old August 09, 2010, 16:52   #205
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Out already!?!

I put my order in late Saturday night and got an email saying they were processing it today. I'm hoping this means I got it. My big question though: I bought one of their stripped South African barrels with the kit, so will I be going to that special hell full of SAW stocks and bad Krylon refinishing for building without the bipod?
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Old August 09, 2010, 17:03   #206
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For those of you who are not sure whether you kits are shipped or not just check your email for UPS tracking information which is initiated by Apex.
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Old August 09, 2010, 17:07   #207
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Ordered three (one at a time) on Friday and two this morning right before they took the SKU down. Just got ship confirm on the first two from Friday and got the "Processing" message on the other three today. Sweet!
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Old August 09, 2010, 17:16   #208
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Yep.. I just received my tracking number.
Hate my financial position at this time.
I would have ordered a few dozen, and then a few more for good measures..


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Old August 09, 2010, 17:36   #209
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Just got my tracking information. Looking forward to Thursday!

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Old August 09, 2010, 18:01   #210
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I never did receive a response to my first order from ten days ago and never received any tracking info, but the package did arrive(haven't been home to see it yet). My second order was acknowledged and tracking info shows it's through Indy and will be delivered tomorrow. Third order placed Friday is same as yours,.....................processing.

I also placed a separate order last week for some non-FAL items to be delivered at a different address. Those show tracking through SLC to be delivered on the 11th. APEX seems to be doing a pretty good job with the emails, but not 100%, so if you don't get notification it doesn't mean the BBT won't be showing up one day.
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Old August 09, 2010, 18:09   #211
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Yeah, I actually just received my shipping notice as I wrote my original message!
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Old August 09, 2010, 18:13   #212
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I placed an order Fri. afternoon and I have "processing", but no shipping. Hope mine is not left out.
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Old August 09, 2010, 18:24   #213
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Yeah, I think if you add up the numbers people ordered just in this thread, (3 for myself) we went through a good number of them and I can guarantee you many other people watching this thread bought them as well and never posted anything about it.. It would be interesting to see if anymore of these come out of the woodwork and what price they will be at then..
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Old August 09, 2010, 18:32   #214
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Early G1 kits on the market again -- SOLD OUT

Its sad but true. I telephoned Apex this afternoon and salesperson said the G1 parts kits were sold out. It seems a high volume of online orders this past weekend cleaned out the remaining supply.

If anyone ordered a couple of Apex G1 part kits and willing to sell one, feel free to contact me offline....hey, I can hope.
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Old August 09, 2010, 19:02   #215
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I know it's a very slim chance but I would really like one also. Willing to pay cash or trade for other FAL parts like a real holland para sight, para parts and cash. Please pm me if you can help me out.

Thanks,
Tim

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Old August 09, 2010, 19:21   #216
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2treeline
Ordered three (one at a time) on Friday and two this morning right before they took the SKU down. Just got ship confirm on the first two from Friday and got the "Processing" message on the other three today. Sweet!
Yeah, ordered mine late Sat. night. Got my "processing" Email today. Don't know if that means I'll get 'em, sure hope so
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Old August 09, 2010, 19:38   #217
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Has anybody received a "Model-a" BGS kit yet? or, a serial number below 2000?

Time to start a thread to track them.
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Old August 09, 2010, 19:42   #218
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kits

Called them today - All GONE ! - No I didn't get the last one.
They are taking names IF they get anymore.
Denny
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Old August 09, 2010, 20:03   #219
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got tracking for an 8lb package today, very excited to see what I get.
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Old August 09, 2010, 20:04   #220
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Oh I forgot, ordered Friday afternoon
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Old August 09, 2010, 20:08   #221
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I ordered my 2nd kit late Friday received my shipping confirmation today.

Mark
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Old August 09, 2010, 21:04   #222
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Be assured that if everyone's best friend Gunpartsguy was still in the business only the first few in this thread would have gotten a chance to buy these. Sometimes it's good when people leave the business!

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Old August 09, 2010, 21:32   #223
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Originally posted by Bigger_Is_Better
Be assured that if everyone's best friend Gunpartsguy was still in the business only the first few in this thread would have gotten a chance to buy these. Sometimes it's good when people leave the business!

Aaron

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Old August 09, 2010, 21:36   #224
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Re: kits

Quote:
Originally posted by denny
Called them today - All GONE ! - No I didn't get the last one.
They are taking names IF they get anymore.
Denny
Called about 10 minutes after they opened today and asked the lady how many kits they had. Her response was she wasn't sure but they still showed up on her computer. Received an email saying my order was processing so looks like I got in before the gate closed. Only regret, not ordering that second (or third) one. Thought I had a little more time than that.

Bet Apex is kicking themselves in the butt for not charging $50 more for each kit.
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Old August 09, 2010, 22:25   #225
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I've been looking through the kits in detail. And I have a few observations that I would like to share:

1. These are not completely matching kits. Only the lower, Bolt and Carrier match. The rest of the parts are a mixture, and in some cases clearly did not come from the original rifle. Now, whether they were mixed up by APEX, CAI, the Turks, or the BGS is anyones guess I suppose. For example, none of the Flash-hiders I have match. Not a one. Also, non of the bipod brackets match, nor do they match each other.

2. There are a plethora of early parts in these rifles. And since the kits are not completely matched, it's luck of the draw if they are correct for the rifle. I definitely have parts from G1 rifles in with my BGS kits. Again, don't know when/where they could have been mixed up.

Early parts that maybe are not obvious that I can identify that are appropriate for the BGS rifle:

A. Late style Type-A buttstock with 1) cutout without wood behind body latch lever, 2) short bevels at front and 3) swiveling sling mount.

B. Early unique BGS/G1 style trapdoor buttplate. Don't know if this is on any other FAL?

C. Wood Pistol Grips of varying sizes, OR early flush/matt plastic grip.

D. Wood Carry handle.

E. Early handguards without the front horsshoe

F. Early handguard screw. Does not have the relief cut the G1 has.

G. Early Joint Pin. Is longer and distinct in the way it is made, both externally and internally

H. Early Gas nut. Some have short wrench slots, some don't.

I. "FN *" Topcover

J. Roller bipod leg detents. Not sure when they changed, or which way, but my kits are 90% rollers, unlike the later G1 style without the rollers.

K. Early short gas block gas system.

L. Early gas plugs which have been modified with a groove in place of the "A". Note these have different size keyed lugs at top and bottom, unlike Israeli.

M. Lower with BGS stamp near the hing pin

N. Early "Browning style" flash hider with wide seperation at bottom, later ones are evenly spaced.






Things I'm curious about:

Why there are different BGS Cartouches?

Why all of the charging handles are plastic? Or is it just mine?

Why some have the "b" suffix, but most don't have a suffix? I have one that has the "b" suffix on the lower receiver, but not on the B/C. Others have it both places. Makes me wonder if there are actually two serial number series that are the same, except for the suffix?

Why each and every one has a different kind of sling, yet they have almost all the same cleaning cloth stuffed inside the buttstock?

And finally, for god's sake, I wish they would stop using a pipe wrench to remove the flash hiders!!

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Old August 09, 2010, 22:35   #226
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Quote:
Originally posted by Falfegnügen


Yes, but Pat still is, and APEX was given his contact info before they knew what they had...
Don't worry, he won't answer their e-mails either.
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Old August 09, 2010, 22:45   #227
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Quote:
Originally posted by Falfegnügen
I've been looking through the kits in detail. And I have a few observations that I would like to share:

1. These are not completely matching kits. Only the lower, Bolt and Carrier match. The rest of the parts are a mixture, and in some cases clearly did not come from the original rifle. Now, whether they were mixed up by APEX, CAI, the Turks, or the BGS is anyones guess I suppose. For example, none of the Flash-hiders I have match. Not a one. Also, non of the bipod brackets match, nor do they match each other.

2. There are a plethora of early parts in these rifles. And since the kits are not completely matched, it's luck of the draw if they are correct for the rifle. I definitely have parts from G1 rifles in with my BGS kits. Again, don't know when/where they could have been mixed up.

Early parts that maybe are not obvious that I can identify that are appropriate for the BGS rifle:

A. Late style Type-A buttstock with 1) cutout without wood behind body latch lever, 2) short bevels at front and 3) swiveling sling mount.

B. Early unique BGS/G1 style trapdoor buttplate. Don't know if this is on any other FAL?

C. Wood Pistol Grips of varying sizes.

D. Wood Carry handle.

E. Early handguards without the front horsshoe

F. Early handguard screw. Does not have the relief cut the G1 has.

G. Early Joint Pin. Is longer and distinct in the way it is made, both externally and internally

H. Early Gas nut. Some have short wrench slots, some don't.

I. "FN *" Topcover

J. Roller bipod leg detents. Not sure when they changed, or which way, but my kits are 90% rollers, unlike the later G1 style without the rollers.

K. Early short gas block gas system.

L. Early gas plugs which have been modified with a groove in place of the "A".

M. Lower with BGS stamp near the hing pin



Things I'm curious about:

Why there are different BGS Cartouches?

Why all of the charging handles are plastic? Or is it just mine?

Why some have the "b" suffix, but most don't have a suffix? I have one that has the "b" suffix on the lower receiver, but not on the B/C. Others have it both places. Makes me wonder if there are actually two serial number series that are the same, except for the suffix?

Why each and every one has a different kind of sling, yet they have almost all the same cleaning cloth stuffed inside the buttstock?

And finally, for god's sake, I wish they would stop using a pipe wrench to remove the flash hiders!!
Great post! It'll be interesting to see how other kits compare with your observations. Also, to be clear, what all should be stamped matching?
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Old August 09, 2010, 22:45   #228
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Something else I'd like to say is Hat's off to APEX for getting us these kits. They are undoubtedly a top-notch operation. Very refreshing after what we FALers usually have to deal with. Reminds me of the good ole days of TAPCO's $75 G1 and Imbel kits.


APEX shipped what they said and they shipped it fast
Excellent status/shipping updates
They charged a VERY reasonble price
They were BETTER than advertised!
And... they answer both thier phone and emails!!!


APEX gets an A+ in my book.
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Old August 09, 2010, 22:52   #229
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+1 on Apex's customer service, quick shipping, great description, and price!!!
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Old August 09, 2010, 23:03   #230
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Jeff is a great guy to deal with and both times I have ordered from them it has been great.They also do gunshows and really pleasant in person. EX1
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Old August 10, 2010, 00:19   #231
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Why all of the charging handles are plastic? Or is it just mine? Why some have the "b" suffix, but most don't have a suffix? I have one that has the "b" suffix on the lower receiver, but not on the B/C. Others have it both places. Makes me wonder if there are actually two serial number series that are the same, except for the suffix? Why each and every one has a different kind of sling, yet they have almost all the same cleaning cloth stuffed inside the buttstock? And finally, for god's sake, I wish they would stop using a pipe wrench to remove the flash hiders!!
I realize they were just generalizations, but Mine has a wood carry handle, no suffix, and the flash hider has no marks on it. The buttstock was a wee bit scratched up on one side but there are no cartouches on the wood anywhere either. I wish I knew more about the details of the individual components (what to look for) but from what everyone here has said, mine is an Af. It could be that they sent out the earliest stuff first.

Has anyone considered that maybe Apex halted sales after they found out what they were selling was worth more?
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Old August 10, 2010, 01:46   #232
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Old Vs New

Falfegnügen, In Post 171 you made, Its nothing more than product improvements over the long term contract. Picture 4 looks like the standard G-1 contract weapons the German Army ordered as it looks like the QD Flash Hider installed without the ears of the Browning Flash Hider for the screw or key way slot and key way spacer. As far as REPLACEMENT parts goes, Who knows for sure what the entire sales package was to the Turks back in the early 1970's when purchased from the German War Reserve along with the BGS surplus sing out their weapons also. Turkey along with Pakistan have never had huge military budgets and have had to make due with what they have attitude. Plus seeing type C butt stocks on type A lowers make's a lot of sense due to the type A butt stocks being discontinued due to breakage in the front of the butt stock. As to what is printed in books and manuals versus what we're buying and receiving are two different things altogether. As for the bigger pistol grips, I'd say there Turkish manufactured as they did make them and Butt Stocks as replacements for awhile. Now I'll have at least one, Maybe two more Fals to build for the colllection. This hobby is getting worst than drag racing or women. BUT at least I get to have something to look at that doesn''t cost a lot afterwards and bitches or breaks all the time.
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Old August 10, 2010, 03:09   #233
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Quote:
Originally posted by Falfegnügen
L. Early gas plugs which have been modified with a groove in place of the "A".

not modified imo but specced, cant remember on what but Ive come across similar before.

MWhy there are different BGS Cartouches?

different bgs units, different eras and different inspectors methinks

Why some have the "b" suffix, but most don't have a suffix? I have one that has the "b" suffix on the lower receiver, but not on the B/C. Others have it both places. Makes me wonder if there are actually two serial number series that are the same, except for the suffix?

I think there were two serial series and the af,b,c added as they were modified. which probably explains why the suffix is found only on the upper and lower and not bolt/carrier

Why each and every one has a different kind of sling, yet they have almost all the same cleaning cloth stuffed inside the buttstock?

from looking at mine, the stuff looks like the infamous german cheesecloth of spare parts fame
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Old August 10, 2010, 03:17   #234
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Re: Old Vs New

Quote:
Originally posted by Lee Carpentieri
As far as REPLACEMENT parts goes, Who knows for sure what the entire sales package was to the Turks back in the early 1970's when purchased from the German War Reserve along with the BGS surplus sing out their weapons also.
first german fal transfer to turkey started in 1961 and continued thru the 60s at least judging by the dates on spare parts.
the bgs used the fal til around 86 and actively experimented with different fal variants over the years from what a bgs member told me.
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Old August 10, 2010, 07:33   #235
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Would a flashider,with a pin,for the keyway,instead of the screw
be for the early model A rifle ?
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Old August 10, 2010, 08:18   #236
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A lowers comparison between the BGS "a" and the later G1.


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Old August 10, 2010, 09:07   #237
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No shipping notice, but my card was hit yesterday. So I hope to have a date with the BBT very soon.
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Old August 10, 2010, 09:33   #238
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G-1's

I'm only going by what the German Minister of Defense told me twenty five years ago when I had a conversation with him. Germany needed to retain a lot of G-1's for war reserve until newer G-3's were purchased and older G-3's went into war reserve. Most of the spare Fal Parts I've purchased NIW had dates from 1959 up to 1967 and were printed in German.
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Old August 10, 2010, 09:35   #239
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Wood refinishing

DakTo, Can't wait to see how you refinish that type A butt Stock and pistol grip.
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Old August 10, 2010, 09:59   #240
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Falfegnügen

Why some have the "b" suffix, but most don't have a suffix? I have one that has the "b" suffix on the lower receiver, but not on the B/C. Others have it both places. Makes me wonder if there are actually two serial number series that are the same, except for the suffix?

I think there were two serial series and the af,b,c added as they were modified. which probably explains why the suffix is found only on the upper and lower and not bolt/carrier

My Apex kit that I received yesterday has the b serial number suffix on the Lower and Carrier, but not on the Bolt. All numbers are matching but for the suffix. Interesting.

I also got the type A lower, but with a type C buttstock attached and plastic pistol grip.

Best Regards,
Slo cat
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Old August 10, 2010, 10:04   #241
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Maybe the entire gun was originally numbered with the suffix and as parts were replaced the suffix was left off when the replacement part was numbered. The date codes on the bolt may help confirm.
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Old August 10, 2010, 10:30   #242
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Re: Wood refinishing

Quote:
Originally posted by Lee Carpentieri
DakTo, Can't wait to see how you refinish that type A butt Stock and pistol grip.
Yeah Lee, I hear ya.
I'm taking a slow careful approach in determining the best way to refinish it. There are a lot of small dings and scratches and I'd like to first swell them out and not sand too much and rather just use 000 steel wood to smooth the wood surface.
This wood appeard to still have a lot of integrity for its age, but in the past I have had Indian wood split and actually fall apart when soaking or steaming.

Currently I used a some Krud Kutter to clean up the oil on the wood surface and that's why it appears light in the photo. Once I take off the stock and pistol grip I can get a much better look.

Stay tuned...
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Old August 10, 2010, 10:39   #243
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Quick question for those who already have kits, will the rifle require the longer "Israeli" gas piston?
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Old August 10, 2010, 10:49   #244
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Re: Re: Wood refinishing

Quote:
Originally posted by DakTo


Yeah Lee, I hear ya.
I'm taking a slow careful approach in determining the best way to refinish it.
I'm in the same boat.. I have been practicing on some old crappy Aussie stocks but I do not think I am at a place that I want to risk doing something to these that I may regret.. I have not even washed mine yet. I will probably just build in current condition and deal with the wood at a later date. Besides, if I make it too pretty I might be afraid to actually take it outside to shoot. lol.

Is there anyone on the board that just specializes in wood refinishing? I know it can be an art form.
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Old August 10, 2010, 10:51   #245
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Quote:
Originally posted by zinj
Quick question for those who already have kits, will the rifle require the longer "Israeli" gas piston?
No, standard metric.
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Old August 10, 2010, 11:01   #246
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I ordered Sat morning, told this morning all kits spoken for... Anyone want to part with one of these kits? Will give some extra boot to make it worth it, thanks Jim

Last edited by warsteiner_1970; August 10, 2010 at 14:54.
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Old August 10, 2010, 12:09   #247
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I was just examining an example of said kits, which "unfortunately" has a replacement plastic pistol grip.

Then I noted something interesting- the PG isn't like any I've seen before. The thumb area and up into the lower isn't swelled at all, but flush. The inside is cut for the cleaning kit spring...do you think the Turks would have bothered?

Sorry, no pics right now.

Anybody else ever seen a PG like this?
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Old August 10, 2010, 12:24   #248
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Re: G-1's

Quote:
Originally posted by Lee Carpentieri
I'm only going by what the German Minister of Defense told me twenty five years ago when I had a conversation with him. Germany needed to retain a lot of G-1's for war reserve until newer G-3's were purchased and older G-3's went into war reserve. Most of the spare Fal Parts I've purchased NIW had dates from 1959 up to 1967 and were printed in German.
gene gangaroosa's (sp?) lists the transfer as 1961. unless its a misprint.
and those niw german fal parts came over when century bought the turkish G1s.
which implies it was still an active weapons system for germany thru the 60s vs the belief they dumped all of them after the G1 adoption and went 100% G3.

I wish somebody coulda translated the af pages I posted, am curious in the difference between the original pages vs the added ones.
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Old August 10, 2010, 12:30   #249
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Quote:
Originally posted by Slo cat
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Falfegnügen

Why some have the "b" suffix, but most don't have a suffix? I have one that has the "b" suffix on the lower receiver, but not on the B/C. Others have it both places. Makes me wonder if there are actually two serial number series that are the same, except for the suffix?

I think there were two serial series and the af,b,c added as they were modified. which probably explains why the suffix is found only on the upper and lower and not bolt/carrier

My Apex kit that I received yesterday has the b serial number suffix on the Lower and Carrier, but not on the Bolt. All numbers are matching but for the suffix. Interesting.

I also got the type A lower, but with a type C buttstock attached and plastic pistol grip.

Best Regards,
Slo cat
teach me to read late when tired, I thought he was saying the suffix was only on the outside.
hit and miss locations sound like it may been done at a small unit level instead of an organized retrofit.
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Old August 10, 2010, 12:37   #250
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Quote:
I ordered Sat morning, told this morning alll kits spoken for... Anyone want to part with one of these kits? Will give some extra boot to make it worth it, thanks Jim
Did you get the "Processing" email?
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