The FAL Files  

Go Back   The FAL Files > Weapon Specific Forums > The FN Files

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old August 07, 2010, 06:12   #101
DakTo
MadMinuteDude
Platinum Contributor
 
DakTo's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 9689
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Indian River, Florida
Posts: 8,295
It appears you can build either an A or B model BGS. A standard threaded barrel and wood handguards for the A model and a newly threaded G1 barrel for the B model should work.
A M2 non-threaded barrel will not work unless you can adapt the barrel for the bi-pod on the B model.

I would imagine any cross-over of barrels or metal handguards and bi-pod on either A and B models would be acceptable as a transitional model. I believe if we had received the original barrels we would have likely seen the A type barrel on both models.
In the event you decide to use a M2 plain and non-bipod type barrel, this would be idea for building an EX1 "Canada" type model.



Loose Translation:

1. The text this A-B series the FN-rifles 7.62mm which prevents confusion of the weapon number of the series characters A or, B sidearm. These 3 models are a basic copy of the A model.
2. The small differences of these 3 models are in the section A is a small difference. Right, left, in front, in the back are related to the forward area.

Fig. 34. FN-rifle A (smooth Handguard made from wood)
Fig. 35. FN-rifle B (Handguard made of metal)
__________________
NEVER touch another man's fries.

Last edited by DakTo; August 07, 2010 at 07:18.
DakTo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 07, 2010, 07:51   #102
tornadocing
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 39859
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: TX
Posts: 96
Brasshound, are you asking them about a run of type 1 uppers?

I have one kit on the way, should be here Thursday. I am wondering about the correct barrel too, the flash hiders are inch threads but it seems the type af or b guns had a bayonet lug too- what type bayone would have gone on these? I thought inch type guns had the lug actually on the fh, not the barrel, and the usual early metric bayonets only worked on a plain muzzle?
tornadocing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 07, 2010, 08:24   #103
def90
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 50609
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The Peoples' Republic of Boulder, Colorado
Posts: 12,371
Quote:
Originally posted by tornadocing
Brasshound, are you asking them about a run of type 1 uppers?

I have one kit on the way, should be here Thursday. I am wondering about the correct barrel too, the flash hiders are inch threads but it seems the type af or b guns had a bayonet lug too- what type bayone would have gone on these? I thought inch type guns had the lug actually on the fh, not the barrel, and the usual early metric bayonets only worked on a plain muzzle?
I may be wrong but I think I have read that Germany did not use or issue a bayonet with these.. Will have to look it up in the Stevens book again.
def90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 07, 2010, 08:45   #104
1646Buff1
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 54615
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 35
Last thing I needed was another G1 kit but you guys are are killing me, I ordered yesterday
1646Buff1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 07, 2010, 08:57   #105
jugrunner
ToxicAlphaMail
Contributor
 
jugrunner's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 19911
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Alabama
Posts: 5,725
anyone get wood HGs ... ?

please post pics ... ... please consider adding the pix to the "Wood" thread ... thx
__________________
___________________________________________
"Remember man as you pass by, as you are now, so once was I. As I am now, so you shall be. Prepare for death and follow me."

Last edited by jugrunner; August 07, 2010 at 11:40.
jugrunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 07, 2010, 09:23   #106
Holescreek
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 51475
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Centerville, OH
Posts: 202
Here is a quote made by Jeff (Apex) on the weaponsguild forum regarding the kits:
Quote:
If you open the images from this thread in another window you can see some of the receiver detail. http://www.prexis.com/sten/homebuild...?topic=13203.0 That should be useful in choosing the correct type of receiver. If you find a good source for the receiver, please feel free to post that here. I was working on the FAL project Friday, helping our guys get these ready for delivery. As usual APEX checks and bags each kit. We also have about 30 later G1 kits that are now boxed and on the storage rack. Those will go out for sale at a later time, perhaps when the other new products get listed?[
In the original thread he has mixed photos. Some of the views show black plastic grips. I suspect that luck has a lot to do with what is received. Too bad he didn't break them down into collector categories, I sispect it was just a time factor.
Holescreek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 07, 2010, 09:27   #107
def90
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 50609
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The Peoples' Republic of Boulder, Colorado
Posts: 12,371
I'm still interested to know where they came from.. I suspect they were just sitting in a warehouse mixed in with what everyone figured were the run of the mill G1 kits hence the mixture that came from SG until someone figured it out and went in and separated them?
def90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 07, 2010, 09:35   #108
def90
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 50609
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The Peoples' Republic of Boulder, Colorado
Posts: 12,371
Quote:
Originally posted by Holescreek
Here is a quote made by Jeff (Apex) on the weaponsguild forum regarding the kits:


In the original thread he has mixed photos. Some of the views show black plastic grips. I suspect that luck has a lot to do with what is received. Too bad he didn't break them down into collector categories, I sispect it was just a time factor.

Wow.. in that post it really looks like he has/had no idea what these were or what they are/were worth.. It seems like he had a large lot of G1 kits and the different photos come from the fact that he said they had a mixture of G1s and he was trying to figure out why there were differences between them.

I like the one comment that it was a FALO...
def90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 07, 2010, 10:15   #109
Bigger_Is_Better
Registered
 
Bigger_Is_Better's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 4906
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Battlefield, MO
Posts: 3,969
Quote:
Originally posted by DakTo
It appears you can build either an A or B model BGS. A standard threaded barrel and wood handguards for the A model and a newly threaded G1 barrel for the B model should work.
Are you sure a threaded G1 barrel will work? I sold one that had a Browning Long Flash hider installed on it awhile back and the lug was almost touching the back of the flash hider. I believe all the lugs in the picture are bayonet lugs and not the later G1 flash hider lugs.

Aaron


Here's the only picture I could find of the right hand thread G1 barrel I sold. See how close the lug would be to the end.

__________________
Burned Out Gun-Nut

Last edited by Bigger_Is_Better; August 07, 2010 at 10:25.
Bigger_Is_Better is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 07, 2010, 10:19   #110
DakTo
MadMinuteDude
Platinum Contributor
 
DakTo's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 9689
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Indian River, Florida
Posts: 8,295
Quote:
Originally posted by Holescreek
Here is a quote made by Jeff (Apex) on the weaponsguild forum regarding the kits:


In the original thread he has mixed photos. Some of the views show black plastic grips. I suspect that luck has a lot to do with what is received. Too bad he didn't break them down into collector categories, I sispect it was just a time factor.
Anyone have a link to the actual thread?
__________________
NEVER touch another man's fries.
DakTo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 07, 2010, 10:31   #111
EX1
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 12330
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 3,283
Hello Your right Bigger the lug is in a different spot. Looks like a bbl we havent seen before bayonet lugged bipod cut bbl with the open ear block.EX1
EX1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 07, 2010, 10:39   #112
DakTo
MadMinuteDude
Platinum Contributor
 
DakTo's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 9689
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Indian River, Florida
Posts: 8,295
Quote:
Originally posted by Bigger_Is_Better


Are you sure a threaded G1 barrel will work? I sold one that had a Browning Long Flash hider installed on it awhile back and the lug was almost touching the back of the flash hider. I believe all the lugs in the picture are bayonet lugs and not the later G1 flash hider lugs.

Aaron
Aaron, I see your point.
The G1 flash hider locking lug is forward just about the full lenght of that of a plain barrel bayonet lug. The T48 long flash hider will likely position itself very close to the locking lug on the G1 barrel.
The problem as I see it is the M2 type plain barrels w/bayo lug will not accommodate the bi-pod. The only explaination I can think of is FN at one time made a M1/M2 type barrel for a bi-pod and threaded the muzzle end to install the flash hider for the GBSs.
I have never seen this type of barrel and they must exist or are all chopped up.

I imagine the rank and file here will likely use a metric barrel w/bi-pod cut and threaded for a flach hider. This is my plan.
__________________
NEVER touch another man's fries.
DakTo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 07, 2010, 10:44   #113
EX1
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 12330
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 3,283
Hello anybody receive mis matched hgs? If so let me know I have one set that
is one side early and the other side is the later style. EX1
EX1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 07, 2010, 10:49   #114
Bigger_Is_Better
Registered
 
Bigger_Is_Better's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 4906
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Battlefield, MO
Posts: 3,969
There is one smith here who can put the lug on a plain barrel, or add rings to a non-bipod barrel making it bipod cut. I don't want to give out his name yet as I don't know if he wants the work or not. Those of you that know me can probably guess who it is.

Can we tell for sure by the pictures that the bipod in them is not the early "large clamshell" style? I guess that doesn't make any difference as these kits have the later G1 clamshell.

Aaron


EX1, do you have any pictures of the differences in handguards??
__________________
Burned Out Gun-Nut
Bigger_Is_Better is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 07, 2010, 10:52   #115
nebula8080
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 37665
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Frederick, MD
Posts: 1,728
Quote:
Originally posted by EX1
Hello anybody receive mis matched hgs? If so let me know I have one set that
is one side early and the other side is the later style. EX1
Both of my HG's were early style. I do have one set of mismatched from a different kit however.

I'll have to check but I think I have a right side early and left side later.
nebula8080 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 07, 2010, 11:55   #116
def90
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 50609
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The Peoples' Republic of Boulder, Colorado
Posts: 12,371
Quote:
Originally posted by DakTo


Anyone have a link to the actual thread?

http://www.prexis.com/sten/homebuild...?topic=13203.0
def90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 07, 2010, 11:57   #117
def90
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 50609
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The Peoples' Republic of Boulder, Colorado
Posts: 12,371
Quote:
Originally posted by Bigger_Is_Better
EX1, do you have any pictures of the differences in handguards??
Look at my photos I posted earlier in this thread.. The top set of handguards are the typical G1 and STG handguards.. The lower set are the earlier rarer handguards. The difference is the newer ones have a U or horseshoe shape around the forward vent holes.
def90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 07, 2010, 11:58   #118
def90
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 50609
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The Peoples' Republic of Boulder, Colorado
Posts: 12,371
Quote:
Originally posted by EX1
Hello anybody receive mis matched hgs? If so let me know I have one set that
is one side early and the other side is the later style. EX1
Both of my kits were mismatched but somehow when I swapped them they combined together perfectly..
def90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 07, 2010, 13:14   #119
Mr pogo
Registered
 
Mr pogo's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 5
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: In a van down by the river
Posts: 2,213
Quote:
Originally posted by palmettomoon


I've been told this is a G1 BGS cartouche. Could be wrong, but I don't think so.


IIRC will show up on german made parts.

__________________
Mr pogo has left the building....
Mr pogo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 07, 2010, 13:25   #120
Mr pogo
Registered
 
Mr pogo's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 5
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: In a van down by the river
Posts: 2,213
remembering some more, not sure if that stock eagle is pre-BWB or more an acceptance cartouche than a factory stamp.
__________________
Mr pogo has left the building....
Mr pogo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 07, 2010, 13:44   #121
Holescreek
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 51475
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Centerville, OH
Posts: 202
Actually, the thread I quoted was in the Vendor forum area:

http://www.prexis.com/sten/homebuild...?topic=13245.0
Holescreek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 07, 2010, 18:01   #122
Falfegnügen
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 4275
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: TN
Posts: 2,642
Quote:
Originally posted by kev


.... And so far I like the Coonan receiver, but I wouldn't want to put a T3 on one of these kits. I suspect you might be looking at lightening them up some, but then what's the advantage over a DSA T1? The few dollars saved on the receiver would be eaten up by machining costs several times over.
I think the reason would be so that we could engrave what we want on it, and we could make the proper early FN style cuts, which are not on the Type-I DSA receiver, or any other Type-I US made receiver.

However, you cannot lighten up the type-III Coonan and have it come out looking right. It is not made to FN specifications. Coonan took some short cuts, and there is not enough material on the underside near the hinge pin area. I know some people don't care, since it looks kind of close... But to me, 90% of the reason for building this early BGS rifle would be for it to be as authentic as possible. Minimum I'd go with would be a DSA type-I.

Like this:


Last edited by Falfegnügen; August 09, 2010 at 00:35.
Falfegnügen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 07, 2010, 18:15   #123
FALonious
In His Grip
Silver Contributor
 
FALonious's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 51017
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: MI
Posts: 4,127
Quote:
Originally posted by def90
I'm still interested to know where they came from.. I suspect they were just sitting in a warehouse mixed in with what everyone figured were the run of the mill G1 kits hence the mixture that came from SG until someone figured it out and went in and separated them?
Jeff told me they came out of Turkey. He picked 200 of the best kits/guns or whatever state they were in at the time. I spoke with him briefly on Friday about this.
They, according to what I was told by the man himself, will all be quite nice.
But no, he is not a FAL guy so he really did not know exactly what he had.
Good for us as I am sure if he had they would have been a bit more costly.
__________________
All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible.

T. E. Lawrence

FALonious is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 07, 2010, 18:23   #124
Wolfsburg1
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 39976
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 269
I've never had any dealings with Colorado Gun Sales but I did notice they have what they are calling "early FN barrels" which include a bayonet lug. Only thing is, the muzzle does not appear to be threaded though it might just be the picture:

https://www.cogunsales.com/index.php...emart&Itemid=1

Thoughts?
Wolfsburg1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 07, 2010, 18:23   #125
FALonious
In His Grip
Silver Contributor
 
FALonious's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 51017
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: MI
Posts: 4,127
Falfegnügen

What about a Coonan T1?
__________________
All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible.

T. E. Lawrence


Last edited by FALonious; August 07, 2010 at 21:35.
FALonious is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 07, 2010, 19:00   #126
HD Bee
One of the Condemned
Silver Contributor
 
HD Bee's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 23751
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: In a Texas Hill Country state of mind.
Posts: 920
Quote:
Originally posted by Wolfsburg1
I've never had any dealings with Colorado Gun Sales but I did notice they have what they are calling "early FN barrels" which include a bayonet lug. Only thing is, the muzzle does not appear to be threaded though it might just be the picture:

https://www.cogunsales.com/index.php...emart&Itemid=1

Thoughts?
It’s not bipod cut either.
Would be good for a Izzy LB build with a closed ear front sight from DSA.
__________________
Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
Benjamin Franklin.

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
Hunter S. Thompson
HD Bee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 07, 2010, 19:01   #127
chrsdwns
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 9846
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 2,716
BGS FAL backround

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=447413
__________________
"Those who do not move do not notice their chains. " -Rosa Luxumberg

"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as a result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved."
~~Ludwig Von Mises

...when poets buy guns, tourist season is over................Walter R. Mead.
chrsdwns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 07, 2010, 19:26   #128
Wolfsburg1
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 39976
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 269
Quote:
Originally posted by HD Bee


It’s not bipod cut either.
Would be good for a Izzy LB build with a closed ear front sight from DSA.
Oh, well I guess that would not do us much good.
Wolfsburg1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 07, 2010, 21:21   #129
Bigger_Is_Better
Registered
 
Bigger_Is_Better's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 4906
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Battlefield, MO
Posts: 3,969
Quote:
Originally posted by def90


Both of my kits were mismatched but somehow when I swapped them they combined together perfectly..

AHHHH, I see!

Thanks,
Aaron
__________________
Burned Out Gun-Nut
Bigger_Is_Better is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 07, 2010, 21:26   #130
kev
Old Fart
Contributor
 
kev's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 71
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Indiana and various others
Posts: 5,159
Quote:
Originally posted by Wolfsburg1
I've never had any dealings with Colorado Gun Sales but I did notice they have what they are calling "early FN barrels" which include a bayonet lug. Only thing is, the muzzle does not appear to be threaded though it might just be the picture:

https://www.cogunsales.com/index.php...emart&Itemid=1

Thoughts?
Muzzle isn't threaded. It's a G1 barrel(or maybe an Argy).
__________________
Gun control is not about guns; it's about control.

RUE?
kev is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 07, 2010, 21:52   #131
Brasshound
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 54993
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montana
Posts: 260
I will inquire about the T1 on Monday when they call me..
__________________
I have a 07 with a class 2 tax stamp..
And I am not afraid to use them..
Brasshound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 07, 2010, 21:57   #132
Bigger_Is_Better
Registered
 
Bigger_Is_Better's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 4906
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Battlefield, MO
Posts: 3,969
Quote:
Originally posted by kev


Muzzle isn't threaded. It's a G1 barrel(or maybe an Argy).
Not G1, it's not bipod cut.

Aaron
__________________
Burned Out Gun-Nut
Bigger_Is_Better is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 07, 2010, 22:34   #133
Mr pogo
Registered
 
Mr pogo's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 5
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: In a van down by the river
Posts: 2,213
I wonder if those are the unwanted LB stepchildren of those israeli HBs Northridge sold.
__________________
Mr pogo has left the building....
Mr pogo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 08, 2010, 00:09   #134
Falcon
Curio & Relic
Contributor
 
Falcon's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 2049
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 3,083
I was thinking they're most likely Argentine barrels like those that Tapco and Century liquidated.

Although you never know!
Falcon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 08, 2010, 01:10   #135
jimmbob
unreparated
Contributor
 
jimmbob's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 41144
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: he's over there
Posts: 5,850
Quote:
Originally posted by def90


The one that had the Type c stock still has a very good finish on all of the parts except the handguards and the bipod legs.. All of the internals of the lower are still pure black. Gas tube and block still show black and the lower itself is still pretty black and still has all of the red and white lettering on the lower and the sight. I think I could just clean most of it up and build it as is. I will definitely put the A stock on this one because it has the lower serial number of the 2. The bolt carrier on it looks like it was almost unused. Buttplates are straight, no dents but need refinishing. The rear sling swivels on both are a bit loose.

The other kit isn't quite as good as the first finish wise but it is still pretty good overall.

The better of the two.. Still black:





Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Had to order me several of 'em hoping to get something close to this. NICE!
__________________
please have your liberal spayed or neutered
jimmbob is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 08, 2010, 03:00   #136
Falfegnügen
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 4275
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: TN
Posts: 2,642
Quote:
Originally posted by FALonious
Falfegnügen

What about a Coonan T1?
I can't say for sure. I have never had one in hand. However, I wouldn't be surprised if they are not quite the same as FN spec type-I. The difference is not great, but it's pretty noticable to me, buy maybe I'm just too picky.

Where you can look fairly easily to compare on a type-I Coonan would be right next to the locking shoulder recess. If it's cut from a receive like the type-III Coonan, there will barely be any material between the locking shoulder recess and the lightening cut. I probably need to get a pic to show this. This isn't something that should affect function or anything, but it is aesthetics.

As for the other differences between "modern" type-I and the early FN pattern type-I, they can be cut with a mill easily. The most noticable difference is the cutout for the mag-release, and then there are other detail differences, some of which we don't want to mess with, like the reed ramp. The early FN receivers had a straight-across unibrow style feed ramp. Again, pictures are in order. I'll try to get some tommorow.
Falfegnügen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 08, 2010, 07:11   #137
DakTo
MadMinuteDude
Platinum Contributor
 
DakTo's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 9689
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Indian River, Florida
Posts: 8,295
Quote:
Originally posted by chrsdwns
BGS FAL backround

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=447413
Hey man, thanks for the informative link on the timeline and development of the G1.
It appears the "second bayonet lug" on the B type was not a bayonet lug at all but a locking lug intended for a grenade launcher. Of particular interest is the completed development of the G1 where all these troop trials Gewehr's were removed from service and trials and the final service weapon (G1) had a barrel locking lug for a flash hider, grenade launcher and blank firing device.
__________________
NEVER touch another man's fries.
DakTo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 08, 2010, 09:31   #138
Bigger_Is_Better
Registered
 
Bigger_Is_Better's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 4906
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Battlefield, MO
Posts: 3,969
Weren't there grenade launchers that fit over the Belgian Long? If so it doesn't make sense that they would design a lug where they had to unscrew the flash hider to use it. I read the same passage and I'm wondering if the guy messed up the history a bit and is referring to the G1 rather than the b. Of course there is a bunch of stuff that has been done that doesn't make sense to me.....and as we all know, no one has asked!

Aaron
__________________
Burned Out Gun-Nut
Bigger_Is_Better is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 08, 2010, 09:38   #139
FaNaticAL!
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 314
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Colorado
Posts: 516
FaNaticAL!

FaNaticAL! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 08, 2010, 09:41   #140
Bigger_Is_Better
Registered
 
Bigger_Is_Better's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 4906
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Battlefield, MO
Posts: 3,969
Thanks! That clearly shows the lug behind the grenade launcher. I assume that launcher is on a Browning Long.

Aaron

Quote:
Originally posted by FaNaticAL!
FaNaticAL!

__________________
Burned Out Gun-Nut
Bigger_Is_Better is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 08, 2010, 09:47   #141
def90
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 50609
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The Peoples' Republic of Boulder, Colorado
Posts: 12,371
I may be wrong but I think the lug on the barrel itself had no function at all. If you look at the Belgian rifles of this period they all had lugged barrels and no flash hider. The Germans ordered their Canada model rifles and requested that there be a flash hider like the T48 models installed. The lug on the flash hider does all the work for any attachments and the lug on the barrel is just left over from the standard barrels that FN was producing at the time.

Belgian with type A stock, lugged barrel for bayonet, no flash hider:

Last edited by def90; August 08, 2010 at 09:52.
def90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 08, 2010, 10:16   #142
Bigger_Is_Better
Registered
 
Bigger_Is_Better's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 4906
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Battlefield, MO
Posts: 3,969
I agree, it would make sense that the lug was for a bayonet on the bare muzzle variants. FN probably just took barrels off their regular line and threaded them for the FH. Now, the question is, why if they had to tool up for bipod cut barrels did they leave the unusable bayonet lug in the design?

I LOVE this kind of history!

Aaron
__________________
Burned Out Gun-Nut
Bigger_Is_Better is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 08, 2010, 10:35   #143
def90
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 50609
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The Peoples' Republic of Boulder, Colorado
Posts: 12,371
Quote:
Originally posted by Bigger_Is_Better
I agree, it would make sense that the lug was for a bayonet on the bare muzzle variants. FN probably just took barrels off their regular line and threaded them for the FH. Now, the question is, why if they had to tool up for bipod cut barrels did they leave the unusable bayonet lug in the design?

I LOVE this kind of history!

Aaron
The origianal border guard rifles when they decided to add the bipod with the "b" model used a clamshell mount that had the sling swivel attached to it so they used the standard barrels. I don't think it was actually until the G1 was released that they truely had bipod cut barrels. These kits all had bipod cut barrels and the regular bipod style mount so I would think they were replacements at some time.

You can see how the bipod mount in this picture is different. It is made to attach to a regular barrel and the sling swivel is part of the mount.

Last edited by def90; August 08, 2010 at 10:41.
def90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 08, 2010, 10:42   #144
DakTo
MadMinuteDude
Platinum Contributor
 
DakTo's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 9689
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Indian River, Florida
Posts: 8,295
Quote:
Originally posted by Bigger_Is_Better
Weren't there grenade launchers that fit over the Belgian Long? If so it doesn't make sense that they would design a lug where they had to unscrew the flash hider to use it. I read the same passage and I'm wondering if the guy messed up the history a bit and is referring to the G1 rather than the b. Of course there is a bunch of stuff that has been done that doesn't make sense to me.....and as we all know, no one has asked!

Aaron
Aaron the assumption I made is there must have been a larger developed multi-purpose grenade launcher which covered the entire T48 type long flash hider versus the smaller launcher which locked on to the T48.
Or...the B barrel has an existing lug for a different type of launcher (or prototype) and was shelved when the barrel was employed as a B type Gewehr.
I have seen the type which fits the T48 but not the FN or German developed launcher for this type of barrel.

Whether the author mess up the facts and timeline or not, what original purpose was the lug used?

Where's Blake Stevens when we need him?
__________________
NEVER touch another man's fries.

Last edited by DakTo; August 08, 2010 at 10:48.
DakTo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 08, 2010, 10:56   #145
DakTo
MadMinuteDude
Platinum Contributor
 
DakTo's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 9689
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Indian River, Florida
Posts: 8,295
Quote:
Originally posted by def90



Interesting photo of what appears to be an early BGS with later low sights?
__________________
NEVER touch another man's fries.
DakTo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 08, 2010, 11:01   #146
def90
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 50609
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The Peoples' Republic of Boulder, Colorado
Posts: 12,371
From what I have dug up I believe that the differences are:

BGS "A" model had wood handguards, the standard Belgian lugged barrel with the T48 flash hider. Lug on barrel would have just been there as a relic of the non-flash hider barrels.

There is an "AF" model but I do not know how this one differed.

BGS "B" model would have had metal handguards with the bipod using the clamshell device to allow the use of the bipod on a non-bipod cut lugged Belgian barrel, once again the lug is just a left over artifact not being used.

BGS "C" model had the closed ear gasblock, lower sight line, new bipod attachment and bipod cut barrel with the lug moved forward and the twist on flash hider. The "C" model is pretty much what went into production as the G1.

The serial numbers on the lowers have a letter after them which denotes which version it was. Both of mine had the letter "b" which means that I should look for a non-bipod cut Belgian barrel with a lug and have it threaded for the flash hider. I would also need to find the proper bipod clam shell attachment.
def90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 08, 2010, 11:02   #147
def90
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 50609
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The Peoples' Republic of Boulder, Colorado
Posts: 12,371
Quote:
Originally posted by DakTo


Interesting photo of what appears to be an early BGS with later low sights?
Yeah, it appears to be a bastard rifle.. Newer features but the older flash hider style.
def90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 08, 2010, 11:39   #148
DakTo
MadMinuteDude
Platinum Contributor
 
DakTo's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 9689
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Indian River, Florida
Posts: 8,295
Quote:
Originally posted by def90
From what I have dug up I believe that the differences are:

BGS "A" model had wood handguards, the standard Belgian lugged barrel with the T48 flash hider. Lug on barrel would have just been there as a relic of the non-flash hider barrels.

There is an "AF" model but I do not know how this one differed.

BGS "B" model would have had metal handguards with the bipod using the clamshell device to allow the use of the bipod on a non-bipod cut lugged Belgian barrel, once again the lug is just a left over artifact not being used.

BGS "C" model had the closed ear gasblock, lower sight line, new bipod attachment and bipod cut barrel with the lug moved forward and the twist on flash hider. The "C" model is pretty much what went into production as the G1.

The serial numbers on the lowers have a letter after them which denotes which version it was. Both of mine had the letter "b" which means that I should look for a non-bipod cut Belgian barrel with a lug and have it threaded for the flash hider. I would also need to find the proper bipod clam shell attachment.
def: What's posted on the Wehrmachland site: The "af" has metal handguards & bi-pod. Most likely an issued "a" transitional model.

1956 - in September 1956 the BGS purchase an additional 4,800 Modell a, except this time the wood handguards have been replaced with metal handguards and folding bipod. These rifles are designated the Modell af. Lower receiver markings: S, EF, and DF.
__________________
NEVER touch another man's fries.
DakTo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 08, 2010, 12:13   #149
Bigger_Is_Better
Registered
 
Bigger_Is_Better's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 4906
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Battlefield, MO
Posts: 3,969
def90,
I did know of the large clamshell variety. It's a very interesting piece. I'm wondering what the barrels on these kits were as they have the later style bipod, Belgian long, and a front sling swivel. It's a damn shame the historic barrels to these were destroyed because of the pussy liberals who fear their own shadow. I think on all of these so far (minus the G1 of course) the lug was just a left over bayonet lug. I sure would like to see a picture of the rifles these came from. Surely there are some at the importer's or somewhere prior to the cutting.

Aaron
__________________
Burned Out Gun-Nut
Bigger_Is_Better is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 08, 2010, 12:38   #150
Lee Carpentieri
Old Fart
Silver Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 4936
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Florida Where it's Hot and Humid
Posts: 6,679
G1 Barrels/Isreali Barrels

Def90 Is totally correct about the Lug, If building a Isreali plain muzzle light barrel, You can use the the Argentine barrels that Colorodo guns sales is selling, Just when you have it refinished, Parkerize it as the Isreali Light barrels were all parked by Isreal and the lug only supports bayonets and Isreali Grenade launchers.

Now like he said about the lug on the T48 browning designed long Flash Hider, The lug on the flash hider helps lock the grenade launcher onto the flash hider. The lenght of the lug on the G-1 barrel is forward by one lug lenght and was designed for the QD Flash Hider and other G-1 accessories that Germany ordered.

Now heres were it gets interesting, I have 5 grenade launchers, Two are ABL marked for the Belgium lugged barrels and fit Argentine and Isreali lugged barrels also.

Next two fit the QD G-1 Flash Hiders and the long Browning Flash Hiders, BUT have a different locking latch devise than what is in Blake Stevens book and only have two BIG holes on the side of the flip up grenade sight with the plastic window which has two sets of markings for rangeing, Lower set is in red and goes from 75 to 100 to 125 and the upper set of numbers is in Black with the same meters increments.

The third type has the five holes on the flip up sight sides, Marked 25,50,75 and 100 Metres, No provision for the plastic window, Below that its marked Metres
E 1956 and serial number and a centered Pull down latch.

Other than the thirid type I,ve mentioned the two G-1/Browning long Flash Hider types are the different latching/Locking feature than anything in Stevens book. Maybe a later upgrade on the latching device due to problems with the earlier type latching devices? I'll see if I can't get some pictures of these up later. Lee.
__________________
Live life to the fullest, Because in the end there's only death and taxs.
Lee Carpentieri is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:47.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©1998-2018 The FAL Files