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Old March 01, 2014, 19:32   #1
Andy the Aussie
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Khukuri...

... well the Busse take on the design...



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Originally posted by GOVT1911
You could do some searching and find a nice TLC and do the same thing, still saving a bunch of $$ and end up with a nice, comfortable CAPABLE rig...
(Jiminy Christmas, did I just recommend a 'yota?!!??)
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Old March 01, 2014, 19:40   #2
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It's quite beautiful...

Where's the sheath?
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Old March 01, 2014, 20:28   #3
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Ooh I like khukris
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Old March 01, 2014, 20:36   #4
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It's quite beautiful...

Where's the sheath?
.... sheath is laying on my kitchen bench (me and the blade wet and cold was enough today ... ). It is an open spine kydex jobby by Al Welke in AZ

One more as the rain continued...

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Old March 01, 2014, 23:55   #5
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How many pounds does it weigh and how thick is the spine of the blade?
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Old March 02, 2014, 00:27   #6
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Spine does look a little thin? 3/16" maybe? Sorry Andy I can not get excited about Busse products because they are IMHO Over priced, therefor the Value isn't there, that's just me. Sell me I will listen to what the best points of any Busse are.
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Old March 02, 2014, 01:09   #7
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Originally Posted by ALL FAL View Post
Spine does look a little thin? 3/16" maybe? Sorry Andy I can not get excited about Busse products because they are IMHO Over priced, therefor the Value isn't there, that's just me. Sell me I will listen to what the best points of any Busse are.
Everything I see about their Battle Mistress and similar derivations indicates they're great knives, but I'm not sure that they can duplicate that success emulating a different kind of platform with a blade that seems constructed a lot like the ones they've created for a different set of functions. I think I'd want to know how this stacks up against a CS Khuk and the real deal like those from HI.
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Old March 02, 2014, 09:58   #8
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Personally, I think the grip is poor. Should be more of lobe for the pinky, and round on the top rear.

Yeah, I have a few original Nepalese models, and they have that spike on the top rear of the hilt. Makes no sense to me.

I recently bought 4 inexpensive commercial models to play with. Basically looking for something that works as a machete and a hatchet. Surprising to me, the grip design has had more relevance than the blade.
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Old March 02, 2014, 10:10   #9
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Surprising to me, the grip design has had more relevance than the blade.

Maybe because that's where the power of the arm gets coupled into the blade?
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Old March 02, 2014, 10:28   #10
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The design of the blade is primarily for chopping - one direction. Although the KB has a false edge on the top, there is nothing to be gained from striking with the spine. So why have a grip design made for a double edged blade?

When doing repeated light chopping, at least how I learned, the back stroke is in the wrist. The handle kindof rolls between the little finger and the palm.

On the two really cheap RSA made Cold Steels, I was able to grind the back of the grip round.

Trying to find a good balance between blade length and width has been a challenge - the longer, thinner CS "machete" blade works great for chopping brush, but the blade has too much flex for splitting wood. The Ontario and KBAR are better at wood, but not so much for brush.

Anyway, I was looking to replace a hatchet and a machete with one tool, so I wasn't expecting perfection, just a good compromise. My Nepalese "Afghan" models are way too heavy, in a manner that doesn't add to their usefulness. Plus, they are cool hanging on the wall.

I had a local Kydex holster guy make some replacement sheathes.
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Old March 02, 2014, 21:17   #11
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Gunplumber is right with the wrist snap to increase the cutting Power, if you look at the average Khuk the arc of the blade is around 14* iirc, it is the arc that puts the sweet spot concentrated in a narrow chopping zone.
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Old March 03, 2014, 03:09   #12
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Quote:
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Spine does look a little thin? 3/16" maybe? Sorry Andy I can not get excited about Busse products because they are IMHO Over priced, therefor the Value isn't there, that's just me. Sell me I will listen to what the best points of any Busse are.
.... mate I never argue with people who have formed valid (there are invalid that generally come from those with no experience that was not gained either from the "internet" or vicariously) opinions about such things as knives and guns....

Clearly *I* think there is good value in a Busse and I base this around the quality manufacture, materials and in use performance (as you know I own a few, certain I could NEVER use all my knives in 10 lifetimes) as I have not found a way to break one but have not also beaten them with a sledge hammer. In the actual Busse line (as opposed to Scrapyard or Swamp Rats) the INFI steel is the ducks guts for taking abuse and keeping on working, but I actually think some of their other steels (SR101, Elmax and CPM154) work a little better in smaller blades where it is all about a hair whittling edge.

One this with a Busse (and the two other associated lines to a lesser degree) unless you are a complete moron you can't loose money on a Busse, even if you use it and decide it is not for you. I have found that they do seem to appreciate at 15-30%pa depending on model and how it was spec'ed from new.

As to the KZ, I agree the jury is still out, the general consensus is that the KZII blade (on this one) combined with the TT Ziller grip would be perfect. That hump on the back of the grip is most complained about but it does not bother me too much (but till I get back bush in July I wont have a chance to flog it much, unless the dead rise and I have to start splitting rotting skulls... ).

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Originally posted by GOVT1911
You could do some searching and find a nice TLC and do the same thing, still saving a bunch of $$ and end up with a nice, comfortable CAPABLE rig...
(Jiminy Christmas, did I just recommend a 'yota?!!??)
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Old March 03, 2014, 13:28   #13
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ALL FAL -

I've got a couple of Busse knives, so I'm not a collector or expert in any fashion. But here is what one custom maker (Wojciech Zawada) said about INFI (Busse's proprietary steel) in a Q&A with a customer of his. It is important to note that Zawada is not able to buy or use INFI in his own knife-making, so he is definitely not 'shilling' for Jerry Busse's product:



Mr. Zowada,

I'm new to knife collecting. I have noticed that both custom and factory knife makers seem to have a favorite steel. Some go as far as to say that no one can make a knife as good as theirs if they don't have their special steel. The most notable are Cold Steel with their Carbon V and Busse Combat with their INFI. What do you know about these steels and their relative merits?

George Urbaczka


George,

Thank you for your question. I need to start out by saying that due to confidentiality concerns there is a lot that I can't say. One thing I won't say is which is one better. I'll leave that one for the companies to fight out. Both are excellent steels made specially for the individual companies and both make great knives. When buying a factory made knife the real issue usually comes down to quality control and heat treating, not the steel that the knife is made from.

Cold Steel's Carbon V is a high carbon tool steel. I had the privilege of using some of it several years ago. It forges well, heat treats easily and is an all around wonderful steel for forging. It seems to take the best properties of my favorite forging steels (O1, W2, and L6) and combines them into one.

Because it is so forgiving in the heat treat it is especially suited for large production runs, or a guy with just a forge and a torch. When you heat treat it with more advanced equipment, it makes some of the best knives I have ever seen. It will tarnish with use, but so will Purdy shotguns. Just keep it clean. My only regret is that I can't buy it. I would use it for most of my carbon steel forging.

Busse Combat's INFI is a steel that is beginning to unravel all my theories about high chromium steels. Jerry Busse sent me some recently to test its' suitability for forging by custom makers. At this point I have only done preliminary testing, but the results are very intriguing.

While this isn't truly a stainless steel INFI does resist staining about like ATS-34. It is stronger than any stainless steel I have ever seen. I think it will rival O1 in tensile strength and L6 in impact strength. After shaving a lot of cardboard it will easily keep up with, and probably surpass most carbon steels on edge holding. Finally, there is a rust resistant steel that really cuts and cuts and cuts�

One of the weird things I noticed was how the hardness test marks looked under the microscope. In many carbon steels the dent crater will have cracks around the edge. This is especially true if the steel is not martempered. Even at a hardness of 62HRC INFI just seems to mush out of the way like putty.

INFI is an air hardening steel. It is also difficult to forge. You really have to hit it to get it to move. For heat treating, kilns and liquid nitrogen are required. But, if you have access to the equipment this could be one of the best all around knife steels ever. Hopefully, Jerry will make it available to custom makers.
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Old March 03, 2014, 13:30   #14
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Basically it holds an edge like crazy, and won't chip or crack at high-hardness like 62R.

There are all kinds of videos where guys do stupid stuff like cut doors off of cars with nothing but a Busse and a hammer - usually after trying the same thing and having other expensive knives crack or break apart spectacularly.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...29-Superiority


this is a bunch of links - some of which I have looked at, and some of which I have not.


Or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYLKj5AyZuE
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Old March 03, 2014, 15:01   #15
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Beautiful knife and superb quality pictures, as usual. I do have a question though, why the double standard with knife versus rifle pictures? If this was a picture of a gun there would be all manner of cries of; “Mag foul!” and “where’s the toes, booze, concrete, dog, cat, couch, coffee table, etc.” But no sheath is OK with a knife picture? At least show a neatly cleft Zombie skull or something.
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Old March 03, 2014, 17:38   #16
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I think it will rival O1 in tensile strength and L6 in impact strength.
That's a helluva' statement.
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Old March 04, 2014, 02:53   #17
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Hey Andy And Brunop, thank you Gent's for taking the time, you have convinced me to give the Busse products a going over.


The INFI-(DEL) steel sounds a bit like D2 in workability. I do have a Kiln for heat
treat and Nitrogen is easy to get so I will try some INFI if it is available.

So many great steels out there, so little time.

I've said before Andy, you sure take excellent pics.
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Old March 04, 2014, 03:43   #18
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it is not commercially available, nor have they disclosed their heat treating protocols.

I like my Busse knives, but Scrap Yard and Swamp Rat are also great, being basically budget lines of Busse. Occasionally they make a few out of INFI.
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Old March 06, 2014, 21:29   #19
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I can make a Huge chopper out of D2 for almost nothing, INFI in a chopper cost ya what? about 500.00?

D2 will take A thousand beatings and show little wear, I can afford D2.
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Old March 06, 2014, 22:27   #20
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i had one made from a car leaf spring, worked great.
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Old March 07, 2014, 00:26   #21
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I had saved a wear plate that came off of a rail car cushion, the plate was replaced and the worn one was headed to the scrap pile, grabbed the plasma torch & did a quick free hand Khukri blank, talk about tough steel to grind, it just does not like to give up anything to the grinding wheel and at a full 1/4" thick and tough as anything that I have ever seen

after handling the blank for a while I can understand how easily the Gurkas could lop off arms, hands, heads ect, in battle with seemingly effortless swings
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Old March 07, 2014, 23:48   #22
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just put some decent grips on it , good to go.
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Old March 19, 2014, 12:15   #23
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just put some decent grips on it , good to go.
when I do get the time to finish this project it will be nearly indestructible

it still needs some work to get the profile right

from the tip to the butt its just over 15", it should be "Goldilocks" (just right)

and I'll have to grind a set of holes to put grips on it
or else burn holes w/ the torch, this stuff is too tough to drill,
the new replacement plates would be delivered w/ holes cut by
water jet to plug weld to wear surfaces



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Old March 19, 2014, 20:37   #24
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With the more radical angle it's almost HawKHUK, Cool.
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Old March 19, 2014, 22:24   #25
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With the more radical angle it's almost HawKHUK, Cool.
if you look close I do have marker for where I have to remove material …

have to take some of the hump off the back,

and waaaayyyyyy too much belly


you should see the ground ax that I made with another used wearplate

it looks totally Mid-Evil ……. when that thing swings down all kinds of shit gives way
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Old March 20, 2014, 20:43   #26
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Commendable work!

Have you given any thought to kicking the angle back a bit and lengthening the tang a tad? You will gain a great deal of blade strike area and angle hit (hard to define).

I collect kuks and the older, Victorian era Long Leafs are the hardest "hitters" and have less of a harsh angle. I have some older blades with the "rat tail" tangs and no handles that I have tapped and then silver soldered on an extension to get a full tang. I'm currently making composite micarta handles for them with some Marpat material from old trousers that I made into shorts.

Keep us posted as to the progress!

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when I do get the time to finish this project it will be nearly indestructible

it still needs some work to get the profile right

from the tip to the butt its just over 15", it should be "Goldilocks" (just right)

and I'll have to grind a set of holes to put grips on it
or else burn holes w/ the torch, this stuff is too tough to drill,
the new replacement plates would be delivered w/ holes cut by
water jet to plug weld to wear surfaces



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Old March 21, 2014, 11:18   #27
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As soon as I can get caught up w/ some of the must do work around here, I'm going to get busy grinding w/ the angle grinder w/ a oversized wheel , clamp the blank to a table edge and get the profile narrowed down

That much grinding will take at least a 12 hour day of work
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Old March 07, 2018, 14:10   #28
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finally got my blanks back from my buddy that was supposed to cut the profile down, he claimed he knew exactly where they were in his reloading room ....... well if they were in his reloading room his dies have to look like shit



ok, first pic, blank #1 was is semi rough shape when it left my hand, it came back 3 years later in worse shape than when I pulled the worn wear plate from the scrap hopper




blank #2 - in rough shape also




blank #1, laid into this thing hard w/ angle grinder and was not really paying attention since I was making headway ...... caught my leather glove on fire and burned my left hand middle finger, but I did get the profile knocked down




preliminary cuts made




some more clean up, better blending of the profiles, getting there

still need to go see a friend w/ a plasma cutter and have him make holes to attach wood for handles, some brass screws and epoxy should make good attachment of the wood handles

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Old March 07, 2018, 15:19   #29
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finally got my blanks back from my buddy that was supposed to cut the profile down, he claimed he knew exactly where they were in his reloading room ....... well if they were in his reloading room his dies have to look like shit



ok, first pic, blank #1 was is semi rough shape when it left my hand, it came back 3 years later in worse shape than when I pulled the worn wear plate from the scrap hopper
Jeebus. Not to disparage, but with friends like that...
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Old March 07, 2018, 16:10   #30
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Jeebus. Not to disparage, but with friends like that...
I hear ya .....

a divorce, got messy, she took off for parts unknown, he was running around like a 2 peckered billy goat, found one that liked to screw a lot and she decided to stick around once he got her to squirt, she moved in w/ 4 kids now down to 3 bought his grandmothers house trying to re-do it, half moved into half finished

I told him bring my blanks back NOW!

the power of pussy screws up minds
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Old March 07, 2018, 22:34   #31
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They are looking better with some grinder time mate !!!

Another of mine...

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Old March 08, 2018, 00:07   #32
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Andy, that blade looks too nice to use and abuse


I need a half-decent day to get outside again

find my can of Dykem and scribe the middle of the sharp edge and the upper border of the angle to grind, been 'jonesing to at least get the primary edge bevel ground

I'm not afraid of getting either blank too hot while grinding, they are cut from wear plates ....... damn tough stuff, might even make the edge easier to get it to hold the kerf
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Old March 12, 2018, 00:25   #33
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Quote:
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The design of the blade is primarily for chopping - one direction. Although the KB has a false edge on the top, there is nothing to be gained from striking with the spine. So why have a grip design made for a double edged blade?

When doing repeated light chopping, at least how I learned, the back stroke is in the wrist. The handle kindof rolls between the little finger and the palm.

On the two really cheap RSA made Cold Steels, I was able to grind the back of the grip round.

Trying to find a good balance between blade length and width has been a challenge - the longer, thinner CS "machete" blade works great for chopping brush, but the blade has too much flex for splitting wood. The Ontario and KBAR are better at wood, but not so much for brush.

Anyway, I was looking to replace a hatchet and a machete with one tool, so I wasn't expecting perfection, just a good compromise. My Nepalese "Afghan" models are way too heavy, in a manner that doesn't add to their usefulness. Plus, they are cool hanging on the wall.

I had a local Kydex holster guy make some replacement sheathes.

Have you looked into the Esee Junglas ? terrific chopper that if i remember correctly was initially designed as a machete

https://eseeknives.com/knives/esee-knives/junglas/





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Old March 14, 2018, 10:09   #34
idsubgun
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I like Khukuris, I own one. But sometimes you need a little more "power" to cut through thick jungle!


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