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Old March 08, 2018, 08:31   #1
TedKennedy
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https://nypost.com/2018/03/07/mom-ch...shes-into-car/

Paid leave.
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Old March 08, 2018, 09:14   #2
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Interesting how the headline commits the fact that the officer involved was also charged for negligent homicide... and the fact was listed in the very last sentence in the article. Media slant? Nah!

In regard to the paid leave.... if that bothers you, gripe about the unions that tie department hands in some issues like this.... same as in any unionized discipline.
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Old March 08, 2018, 09:27   #3
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Interesting how the headline commits the fact that the officer involved was also charged for negligent homicide... and the fact was listed in the very last sentence in the article. Media slant? Nah!

In regard to the paid leave.... if that bothers you, gripe about the unions that tie department hands in some issues like this.... same as in any unionized discipline.

What the hell does media slant have to do with this dude hitting her car? And it's her fault the baby died?

The union I was in would not pay if someone was off because of discipline. If it was later determined to be unjust, they'd receive back pay. (of course, no one in my union ever got sidelined because of shooting anyone, or even vehicular manslaughter, maybe that should be handled differently?)

I was raised in an era before car seats were common. Did all the parents of kiddos killed in MVAs escape a manslaughter charge unfairly?
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Old March 08, 2018, 09:57   #4
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What the hell does media slant have to do with this dude hitting her car? And it's her fault the baby died?

The union I was in would not pay if someone was off because of discipline. If it was later determined to be unjust, they'd receive back pay. (of course, no one in my union ever got sidelined because of shooting anyone, or even vehicular manslaughter, maybe that should be handled differently?)

I was raised in an era before car seats were common. Did all the parents of kiddos killed in MVAs escape a manslaughter charge unfairly?


Again, another person has their lemming brain made up over a slanted article with zero to limited unproven facts. 'Merica.

..... and yes, if a parent fails to properly as use their children in a car, and the kid dies as a result, the parent owns some responsibility. Have you held a dead four year old in your arms that was launched through a window... a kid that would have lived IF the parent wasn't lazy and complacent? I have. It is painful and infuriating.
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Old March 08, 2018, 10:01   #5
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Again, another person has their lemming brain made up over a slanted article with zero to limited unproven facts. 'Merica.
"lemming brain", thanks for the laugh, hero.
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Old March 08, 2018, 13:02   #6
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blue line beats black lives any day. after all, it's just a baby we're talking about. surely she can pop out another one.

in the meantime, somebody has to take the blame, and we have to disempower the person who would come after the baby-killer.
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The next time I hear "THE RANGE IS NOW HOT", it just wont be the same.

Max tried another question. "What sort of people live about here?"
"In THAT direction," the Jin said, waving its right paw round, "lives a Han: And in THAT direction," waving the other paw, "lives a Ming Hare. Visit either you like: they're both mad."
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Max remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Jin: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Max.
"You must be," said the Jin, "or you wouldn't have come here."
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Old March 08, 2018, 14:10   #7
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I think this has more to do with the DA getting a Negligent Homicide conviction from one or both drivers than it does protecting a police officer's career by charging the mother.
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Old March 08, 2018, 14:15   #8
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in the meantime, somebody has to take the blame, and we have to disempower the person who would come after the baby-killer.
You must be a lemming, too, lol.
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Old March 08, 2018, 14:17   #9
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I think this has more to do with the DA getting a Negligent Homicide conviction from one or both drivers than it does protecting a police officer's career by charging the mother.
No way! You think the DA would be so ambitious? Surely the conviction record isn't the only thing that....nevermind.
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Old March 08, 2018, 15:51   #10
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Two people are to blame for the kid's death; the cop who crashed into the other vehicle and the dumb bitch who should have had the kid restrained properly. What we used to do with kids is neither here nor there; we used to use lead paint until we learned it really hurt people. We used to insulate with asbestos until we found out it killed you over time and so on.

The cop needs to go to jail and so does the mom; both were criminally negligent and should be punished severely because the kid is the one who suffered for their negligence and/or poor judgement. Doesn't matter about the occupations or relationships of the bad actors, both are culpable in the death of a child. End of conversation.
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Old March 09, 2018, 07:05   #11
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Yup, what Gman said. ^^^^^^^^
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Old March 09, 2018, 08:43   #12
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Two people are to blame for the kid's death; the cop who crashed into the other vehicle and the dumb bitch who should have had the kid restrained properly. What we used to do with kids is neither here nor there; we used to use lead paint until we learned it really hurt people. We used to insulate with asbestos until we found out it killed you over time and so on.

The cop needs to go to jail and so does the mom; both were criminally negligent and should be punished severely because the kid is the one who suffered for their negligence and/or poor judgement. Doesn't matter about the occupations or relationships of the bad actors, both are culpable in the death of a child. End of conversation.
Got it. With paid leave.
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Old March 09, 2018, 09:30   #13
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Two people are to blame for the kid's death; the cop who crashed into the other vehicle and the dumb bitch who should have had the kid restrained properly. What we used to do with kids is neither here nor there; we used to use lead paint until we learned it really hurt people. We used to insulate with asbestos until we found out it killed you over time and so on.
there is "mala prohibitum" and there is "malum en pro se".

the mother shared culpability by failing to accord with a community standard, which is mutable, by it's very nature.

the cop killed the kid by his overt act, which is evil, immutably.

in your heart you know this. you have a child, as well as a badge. show us which is more important to you.

you already know.
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If the concept of heading on down to the local Home Depot and transforming $100 worth of random pipe bits into a killing machine doesn’t appeal to you, you’re a frikkin' pansy. Also, you’re probably sane and will live significantly longer than I will.

Nonetheless you disgust me, and I take comfort in the knowledge that your obituary will be nowhere near as humorous as mine.


The next time I hear "THE RANGE IS NOW HOT", it just wont be the same.

Max tried another question. "What sort of people live about here?"
"In THAT direction," the Jin said, waving its right paw round, "lives a Han: And in THAT direction," waving the other paw, "lives a Ming Hare. Visit either you like: they're both mad."
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Max remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Jin: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Max.
"You must be," said the Jin, "or you wouldn't have come here."
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Old March 09, 2018, 10:39   #14
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"Reports state Manuel was driving a Corvette at 94 mph at the time of the crash."


94mph in a ? zone? 50? 60? 65? Even if the speed limit was 70 he was 24 over. This is a 90/10 if I'm sitting on the jury. 90% for Mr 94 in a ____ zone. Maximum penalty for him too. Mom gets a pass, she gets to live with her choice for the rest of her life already. Dickhead 94 with a badge knew better. Why is anyone assuming the child would have lived had there been proper restraint?
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Old March 09, 2018, 10:55   #15
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Originally Posted by TedKennedy View Post
What the hell does media slant have to do with this dude hitting her car? And it's her fault the baby died?

The union I was in would not pay if someone was off because of discipline. If it was later determined to be unjust, they'd receive back pay. (of course, no one in my union ever got sidelined because of shooting anyone, or even vehicular manslaughter, maybe that should be handled differently?)

I was raised in an era before car seats were common. Did all the parents of kiddos killed in MVAs escape a manslaughter charge unfairly?

Mugshot of the mother but no mugshot of the Cop?
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Old March 09, 2018, 12:36   #16
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Mugshot of the mother but no mugshot of the Cop?
thick blue line.

here he is:

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If the concept of heading on down to the local Home Depot and transforming $100 worth of random pipe bits into a killing machine doesn’t appeal to you, you’re a frikkin' pansy. Also, you’re probably sane and will live significantly longer than I will.

Nonetheless you disgust me, and I take comfort in the knowledge that your obituary will be nowhere near as humorous as mine.


The next time I hear "THE RANGE IS NOW HOT", it just wont be the same.

Max tried another question. "What sort of people live about here?"
"In THAT direction," the Jin said, waving its right paw round, "lives a Han: And in THAT direction," waving the other paw, "lives a Ming Hare. Visit either you like: they're both mad."
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Max remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Jin: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Max.
"You must be," said the Jin, "or you wouldn't have come here."
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Old March 09, 2018, 12:49   #17
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Originally Posted by justashooter View Post
there is "mala prohibitum" and there is "malum en pro se".

the mother shared culpability by failing to accord with a community standard, which is mutable, by it's very nature.

the cop killed the kid by his overt act, which is evil, immutably.

in your heart you know this. you have a child, as well as a badge. show us which is more important to you.

you already know.
Sigh. I know you're not stupid but sometimes, its pointless arguing with you. Never said the cop who was driving stupidly but illegally over the speed limit was blameless. Overt act? Negative. His actions were reckless with a possible foreseeable outcome of causing death or serious injury at the speed at which he was traveling on the road he was driving on, which, digging deeper is a multi lane, divided highway in a business/retail area. No way he should have been driving on the road at that time of night (2000 hrs) at that speed. The road had a 50mph limit on it and he was driving 94mph. He is being correctly charged with negligent homicide and speeding. He should also be charged with reckless driving but that might be a lesser included charge.

Equally, the mom has to bear responsibility for her actions. Far from simply "failing to accord with a community standard." She broke the LAW which is no less or no greater than the law the cop broke when driving in excess of the speed limit. In fact, in most jurisdictions, the penalty for having an unsecured child in a vehicle is much MORE onerous and considered more heinous than speeding. In my jurisdiction, I can give you a penalty assessment for pretty much any speed over the limit but a child safety restraint violation is a mandatory court appearance.

Both are culpable. The SUV had 8 occupants, 4 adults, 4 kids and NONE were wearing seat belts as required by law. The driver of the SUV was an 18 year old who didn't have a license. There are no winners here; both sides are equally stupid and deserve punishment. The level of punishment will be decided in court but don't try to tell me the mother of this child is blameless because she clearly isn't. The cop should be jailed as should the mother. A kid is dead because of BOTH of their reckless activity.

Here's more information on the crash:

http://www.wafb.com/story/37626781/p...center-console

http://www.wafb.com/story/37526623/r...-year-old-girl
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Old March 09, 2018, 15:36   #18
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your answer was predictable. your character is evident.
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If the concept of heading on down to the local Home Depot and transforming $100 worth of random pipe bits into a killing machine doesn’t appeal to you, you’re a frikkin' pansy. Also, you’re probably sane and will live significantly longer than I will.

Nonetheless you disgust me, and I take comfort in the knowledge that your obituary will be nowhere near as humorous as mine.


The next time I hear "THE RANGE IS NOW HOT", it just wont be the same.

Max tried another question. "What sort of people live about here?"
"In THAT direction," the Jin said, waving its right paw round, "lives a Han: And in THAT direction," waving the other paw, "lives a Ming Hare. Visit either you like: they're both mad."
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Max remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Jin: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Max.
"You must be," said the Jin, "or you wouldn't have come here."
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Old March 09, 2018, 22:47   #19
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your answer was predictable. your character is evident.
Your lack of reasoning is also predictable. Your responses regarding the Glock were equally infantile and simplistic. My answer would be the same no matter the occupation of the other driver; perhaps your bias is the one showing?
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God is on the side, not of the big battalions, but of the best shots- Voltaire

“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."
-Alexis de Tocqueville
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Old March 13, 2018, 22:40   #20
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I wonder where you'd place a car seat in a car to where it would guarantee safety from an idiot slamming into you at 94 miles an hour...
Do they even test them at those speeds?
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Old March 13, 2018, 22:57   #21
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When this happens and a parent has lost a child, can't see a jury convicting her, she's already lost her baby, through her own actions of somewhat neglect, what punishment can be worst than what she is already doing to herself?

This is 90% the other driver and 10% mom.

As RG said, would a seat belt had even made a difference when the van was hit by a 94 mph driven vette?

The Vette driver hit the van, had he not, the kid would still be alive.

This DA may be following the law, but he won't get a conviction by any jury for the mother.
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Old March 15, 2018, 00:04   #22
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I wonder where you'd place a car seat in a car to where it would guarantee safety from an idiot slamming into you at 94 miles an hour...
Do they even test them at those speeds?
Well, considering every other person within the vehicle survived the crash, even though they weren't seat belted in, if the kid had been properly secured, with the straps tightened up, she may just have survived. Sans being properly secured, the kid stood NO chance, hell, she wasn't even correctly strapped into the damn car seat.
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God is on the side, not of the big battalions, but of the best shots- Voltaire

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Old March 15, 2018, 00:16   #23
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Well, considering every other person within the vehicle survived the crash, even though they weren't seat belted in, if the kid had been properly secured, with the straps tightened up, she may just have survived. Sans being properly secured, the kid stood NO chance, hell, she wasn't even correctly strapped into the damn car seat.
I was in two helicopter crashes, they called them hard landing, and most of the injuries were from flying bodies acting as missiles, myself included.
None of us were tied down.

Did the other folks not belted in do the same to this child????
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Old March 15, 2018, 15:54   #24
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Well, considering every other person within the vehicle survived the crash, even though they weren't seat belted in, if the kid had been properly secured, with the straps tightened up, she may just have survived. Sans being properly secured, the kid stood NO chance, hell, she wasn't even correctly strapped into the damn car seat.
4000 people died when two planes crashed into some buildings. none of them were wearing seat belts or bike helmets. it wouldn''t have made a bunch of muslims any less guilty if people had been wearing bike helmets.

let it go, brother. it wasn't you. it was some slimeball who thought he walked on water.
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If the concept of heading on down to the local Home Depot and transforming $100 worth of random pipe bits into a killing machine doesn’t appeal to you, you’re a frikkin' pansy. Also, you’re probably sane and will live significantly longer than I will.

Nonetheless you disgust me, and I take comfort in the knowledge that your obituary will be nowhere near as humorous as mine.


The next time I hear "THE RANGE IS NOW HOT", it just wont be the same.

Max tried another question. "What sort of people live about here?"
"In THAT direction," the Jin said, waving its right paw round, "lives a Han: And in THAT direction," waving the other paw, "lives a Ming Hare. Visit either you like: they're both mad."
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Max remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Jin: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Max.
"You must be," said the Jin, "or you wouldn't have come here."
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Old March 15, 2018, 22:48   #25
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4000 people died when two planes crashed into some buildings. none of them were wearing seat belts or bike helmets. it wouldn''t have made a bunch of muslims any less guilty if people had been wearing bike helmets.

let it go, brother. it wasn't you. it was some slimeball who thought he walked on water.
No, it wasn't me and as I said before, it makes no difference to me that the driver was a cop because he was a prick and killed a kid so deserves to be in jail for the rest of his life.

However, for every driver who is driving in an extremely reckless manner like this, I see hundreds who endanger their kids every day. Drive with them in the car when they are drunk, drive with them not in car seats, sitting on laps, no car seats and sitting in the front when they aren't old enough to. I've had drivers take their kids to the bar so that the kid can blow in the interlock to get the car started after the parent got shitfaced. Many parents are just awful human beings.

Here's a classic example of disgusting parents from my area:

http://www.krqe.com/news/state-polic...boy/1009421199
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God is on the side, not of the big battalions, but of the best shots- Voltaire

“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."
-Alexis de Tocqueville
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Old March 16, 2018, 12:46   #26
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it has been illegal in very specific terms for over a hundred years to run somebody over with a car. it has been illegal to kill someone by an overt act for , well, forever.

it has been illegal to ride in a car without a seat belt for a few decades. maybe there is a difference between an inherently evil act and a violation of relative community standard.
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If the concept of heading on down to the local Home Depot and transforming $100 worth of random pipe bits into a killing machine doesn’t appeal to you, you’re a frikkin' pansy. Also, you’re probably sane and will live significantly longer than I will.

Nonetheless you disgust me, and I take comfort in the knowledge that your obituary will be nowhere near as humorous as mine.


The next time I hear "THE RANGE IS NOW HOT", it just wont be the same.

Max tried another question. "What sort of people live about here?"
"In THAT direction," the Jin said, waving its right paw round, "lives a Han: And in THAT direction," waving the other paw, "lives a Ming Hare. Visit either you like: they're both mad."
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Max remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Jin: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Max.
"You must be," said the Jin, "or you wouldn't have come here."
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Old March 16, 2018, 22:12   #27
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No, it wasn't me and as I said before, it makes no difference to me that the driver was a cop because he was a prick and killed a kid so deserves to be in jail for the rest of his life.

However, for every driver who is driving in an extremely reckless manner like this, I see hundreds who endanger their kids every day. Drive with them in the car when they are drunk, drive with them not in car seats, sitting on laps, no car seats and sitting in the front when they aren't old enough to. I've had drivers take their kids to the bar so that the kid can blow in the interlock to get the car started after the parent got shitfaced. Many parents are just awful human beings.

Here's a classic example of disgusting parents from my area:

http://www.krqe.com/news/state-polic...boy/1009421199
Well plenty of us here grew up before Social Safety Nazism G
Truthfully I don't recall that many kids badly hurt in traffic accidents
so who pushed this shit ?
The insurance lobby working off their stupid actuary data
who underwrites that industry...
The Banking sector
and guess who underwrites much of the studies
same Cocksmokers G

Been the same BS with seat belts, Air bags, helmet laws, lowering BACs, yes even gun control.

Did you catch the latest idiocy from the FDA ?
they want to reduce nicotine in Cigarettes
Stupid Asshats
wanna know the result of that ?
smokers will smoke more to achieve the same "satisfaction"
Idiot media was surprised the industry was not opposing this regulatory measure. Why would they, it means greater profits due to increased usage.

More Safety Nazi crap penned up by morons.

As far as this mother goes charging her is just insult to the injury inflicted upon her family by some stud muffin piggo going raped ape in a Vette. Ass was likely under the influance too
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Old March 17, 2018, 01:06   #28
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Ever since seatbelts were mandated by law, not using them when required was essentially a criminal offense. Before then, it might have been considered an accident, or really poor judgement, if someone was injured or killed in an auto accident. Sorta like now that nearly everywhere it is illegal to hold a cell phone while driving-before then it might be argued it was "just an accident" if there was an accident. Now it is a criminal offense.

There's no question in my mind that the driver is guilty. All that remains is to determine an appropriate punishment.
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Old March 17, 2018, 08:21   #29
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"Reports state Manuel was driving a Corvette at 94 mph at the time of the crash."


94mph in a ? zone? 50? 60? 65? Even if the speed limit was 70 he was 24 over. This is a 90/10 if I'm sitting on the jury. 90% for Mr 94 in a ____ zone. Maximum penalty for him too. Mom gets a pass, she gets to live with her choice for the rest of her life already. Dickhead 94 with a badge knew better. Why is anyone assuming the child would have lived had there been proper restraint?
Which leads to the question: which child car seat can survive being in a 90+ mph collision? I mean, FVMSS 213 tests seats at 30mph simulated frontal impacts and 15mpg for lateral. CR claims (claims) they test frontal impace to 35mph but I do not know the number for side impacts.
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Old March 17, 2018, 09:26   #30
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Ever since seatbelts were mandated by law, not using them when required was essentially a criminal offense. Before then, it might have been considered an accident, or really poor judgement, if someone was injured or killed in an auto accident. Sorta like now that nearly everywhere it is illegal to hold a cell phone while driving-before then it might be argued it was "just an accident" if there was an accident. Now it is a criminal offense.

There's no question in my mind that the driver is guilty. All that remains is to determine an appropriate punishment.
depends. Close friend wreaked her car into a deep ditch, belt jammed...she drowned slowly. Her finger nails were torn half off in her frenzied panic to escape slow & certain doom.
Michelle didn't deserve to die like that

Helmets, same deal. Plenty of folks die because of them, even more end up in wreaks due to loss of prepheria vision.

When child torture seats became mandated one old trooper remarked an internal study here after the first year
While the number of child fatalities decreased the number of vehicle accidents where children were passengers greatly increased
So why was that ?
real simple
Driver distraction
big bitch now is distracted driving due to cell usage
what do you suppose the result is of a child going full meltdown ?

Airbags save some, kill or maim others.

My point is folks should have the option to choose their own level of "safety" for themselves & their families not some idiot politician with his pockets filled by the financial sector.

DUI
used to be .10, now it's .08 and there are proposals that it needs to be lowered to .06 or even .04
Truth is there are some folks that pig drunk after one beer and some that can pound back a 12 pack and seem completely unaffected. I have known both
The politician's answer is what I refer to as lowest common denomonator Justice.
Judging all of us by those by the lowest level of something is wrong, it's pure socialism.

This is extremely pervasive these days
look at Gun Control efforts
it's mostly Safety Nazi driven
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Old March 17, 2018, 14:24   #31
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Well plenty of us here grew up before Social Safety Nazism G
Truthfully I don't recall that many kids badly hurt in traffic accidents
so who pushed this shit ?
The insurance lobby working off their stupid actuary data
who underwrites that industry...
The Banking sector
and guess who underwrites much of the studies
same Cocksmokers G

Been the same BS with seat belts, Air bags, helmet laws, lowering BACs, yes even gun control.

Did you catch the latest idiocy from the FDA ?
they want to reduce nicotine in Cigarettes
Stupid Asshats
wanna know the result of that ?
smokers will smoke more to achieve the same "satisfaction"
Idiot media was surprised the industry was not opposing this regulatory measure. Why would they, it means greater profits due to increased usage.

More Safety Nazi crap penned up by morons.

As far as this mother goes charging her is just insult to the injury inflicted upon her family by some stud muffin piggo going raped ape in a Vette. Ass was likely under the influance too
Well, it used to be a really good and very expensive car that could go over 100mph and accelerate from 0 to 60 in under 10 seconds; now any shitty little car can do it. Roads were less congested, traffic speeds were lower and people understood their rod or drum brakes weren't as good as the modern disc brakes with ABS. Yeah, we used to pack asbestos laden insulation into ships and school heating systems with nary a thought about the consequences. Buncha shit we used to do that wasn't safe.

Can't look at modern times through the rose tinted glasses bub, we know better these days. As I have said many times before, it makes no difference to me what the occupation was of the driver, he committed vehicular homicide and deserves to be in jail for the rest of his life. However, seeing how everyone else in the vehicle survived, even though they weren't wearing seat belts, the mother bears a portion of the responsibility for the death of the child because she didn't take the essential, expected and legally required steps to attempt to keep her child protected from harm.
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Old March 17, 2018, 14:43   #32
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it has been illegal in very specific terms for over a hundred years to run somebody over with a car. it has been illegal to kill someone by an overt act for , well, forever.

it has been illegal to ride in a car without a seat belt for a few decades. maybe there is a difference between an inherently evil act and a violation of relative community standard.
It is not a violation of a "relative community standard;" it is a criminal violation of a state statute, punishable by law to a greater extent than that of simply speeding. This is not difficult to understand unless one is immature. The speeder likely did not intend to crash into another vehicle at 94mph, thereby killing the innocent child and no court will ever be able to prove the intent to do so. Was a horrific crash, resulting in the death of a child the ultimate and likely foreseeable outcome of reckless speed? Yes.

The mother, more than anyone else, bore the responsibility for placing her precious cargo into an approved car seat, ensuring the straps were tightened to the required standard and having the seat properly secured in the vehicle. We cannot know if the child would or would not have survived if she had been properly taken care of, as required by law but she surely would have had more of a chance than she did at the hands of a recklessly incompetent parent. It is telling that every other person in the vehicle survived, even though they didn't use their seat belts and leads me to consider the child may have had better odds of survival had the adult entrusted with her care lived up to her responsibilities.

All the bleeding heart, "oh the mom lost her kid" crap is pathetic and has no place in a discussion of culpability. If the mother gave a shit about her daughter, she would have taken the necessary and legally required steps to protect her from a completely foreseeable incident. Not to mention she shouldn't have allowed her child to be a passenger in a vehicle driven by an 18 year old, inexperienced, unlicensed driver but hey, let's not sully the discussion with inconvenient facts.
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Old March 17, 2018, 16:10   #33
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[QUThe mother, more than anyone else, bore the responsibility for placing her precious cargo into an approved car seat, ensuring the straps were tightened to the required standard and having the seat properly secured in the vehicle.OTE=the gman;4556724] It is not a violation of a "relative community standard;" it is a criminal violation of a state statute, punishable by law to a greater extent than that of simply speeding. This is not difficult to understand unless one is immature. The speeder likely did not intend to crash into another vehicle at 94mph, thereby killing the innocent child and no court will ever be able to prove the intent to do so. Was a horrific crash, resulting in the death of a child the ultimate and likely foreseeable outcome of reckless speed? Yes.

We cannot know if the child would or would not have survived if she had been properly taken care of, as
required by law
but she surely would have had more of a chance than she did at the hands of a recklessly incompetent parent. It is telling that every other person in the vehicle survived, even though they didn't use their seat belts and leads me to consider the child may have had better odds of survival had the adult entrusted with her care lived up to her responsibilities.

All the bleeding heart, "oh the mom lost her kid" crap is pathetic and has no place in a discussion of culpability. If the mother gave a shit about her daughter, she would have taken the necessary and legally required steps to protect her from a completely foreseeable incident. Not to mention she shouldn't have allowed her child to be a passenger in a vehicle driven by an 18 year old, inexperienced, unlicensed driver but hey, let's not sully the discussion with inconvenient facts. [/QUOTE]


There was a time not so long, that a civilized nation state passed many horrendous laws, which the judges at that time found to be legal, and then hundreds of thousand police officers went about enforcing with gusto.

The police of that time frame also went to great links to protect their own, we're just following the law, bla, bla, bla when it was all over and done, when the politicians were dead, on the run, being hung, right beside the damned judges .

As in, this now former, maybe not, police officer could not have expected to kill some child by driving 94 mph in a what, 55 zone, on a public road, by law of course, all legal of course, and that the blame for all this rides with the mother???

Its good to see that much has not changed in the past 70 years.

Sociopaths also can't place themselves in the other persons shoes, or in this case, the mother of a dead child at the hands of some idiot driving 94 mph on a public highway.

If this is the way most police officers think today, G-D help us and them when they get the order to round up firearms, because they will hit that legal order with gusto, same as before.
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Old March 17, 2018, 18:01   #34
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Well, it used to be a really good and very expensive car that could go over 100mph and accelerate from 0 to 60 in under 10 seconds; now any shitty little car can do it. Roads were less congested, traffic speeds were lower and people understood their rod or drum brakes weren't as good as the modern disc brakes with ABS. Yeah, we used to pack asbestos laden insulation into ships and school heating systems with nary a thought about the consequences. Buncha shit we used to do that wasn't safe.

Can't look at modern times through the rose tinted glasses bub, we know better these days. As I have said many times before, it makes no difference to me what the occupation was of the driver, he committed vehicular homicide and deserves to be in jail for the rest of his life. However, seeing how everyone else in the vehicle survived, even though they weren't wearing seat belts, the mother bears a portion of the responsibility for the death of the child because she didn't take the essential, expected and legally required steps to attempt to keep her child protected from harm.
Does mom maintain some level of culpability ?
Hell yes but not at the same level as the gunned up racing Swat Piggie who felt he as outside community standards because he held a shitty badge G
likely part of the reason she is being charged is due to a piglet being the true actor in the event.

Seen it here once years back, drunked up pig nearly did a head on
killed a passenger
gal went through windshield, died.
like a quarter ounce of weed was found in the victims car.
Boyfriend went to prison, the drunken murderer still has a badge today.
a Sargent on his force G

Back in the 60s most all cars were far better then 100 mph rides, don''t feed me that garbage...are you some damn snowflake ?
big blocks were damn common dude
little was geared for 10 second 1/4s, my 1st car was a ram air 67' 400 firebird that could get into the 11s with a 10 something 10 bolt posi, good for maybe 145 top end
let you clowns ditch themselves in the chase.
8 I know of...they all were unable to control, one died in a chase. No shits given. Idiot was running a late 70s Fury III patrol car with the 440 and dana 3:80 posi, lost control on dirt and died.
Not my fault, he was a moron

Does mom need to be cited...
Heck yes but to be tried at the same level as the openly homicidal cop
heck no G
get a damn clue.
He broke every trust he had with the community
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Old March 17, 2018, 18:06   #35
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Does mom maintain some level of culpability ?
Hell yes but not at the same level as the gunned up racing Swat Piggie who felt he as outside community standards because he held a shitty badge G
likely part of the reason she is being charged is due to a piglet being the true actor in the event.

Seen it here once years back, drunked up pig nearly did a head on
killed a passenger
gal went through windshield, died.
like a quarter ounce of weed was found in the victims car.
Boyfriend went to prison, the drunken murderer still has a badge today.
a Sargent on his force G

Back in the 60s most all cars were far better then 100 mph rides, don''t feed me that garbage...are you some damn snowflake ?
big blocks were damn common dude
little was geared for 10 second 1/4s, my 1st car was a ram air 67' 400 firebird that could get into the 11s with a 10 something 10 bolt posi, good for maybe 145 top end
let you clowns ditch themselves in the chase.
8 I know of...they all were unable to control, one died in a chase. No shits given. Idiot was running a late 70s Fury III patrol car with the 440 and dana 3:80 posi, lost control on dirt and died.
Not my fault, he was a moron

Does mom need to be cited...
Heck yes but to be tried at the same level as the openly homicidal cop
heck no G
get a damn clue.
He broke every trust he had with the community

No, worst, he's British.
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Old March 17, 2018, 20:22   #36
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No, worst, he's British.
Shit paul you should try on the Hong Kong piglets Canada took in
straight loony toons, beat one down in BC outside a club in BC after he groped the wrong pussy.
Asshole kept howling I Police as I booted his sorry ass laying on the sidewalk.
yeah headed east right after that.

I am seriously respectful of decent LE, most here are
Running your Vette at nearly 100mph ?
broadsiding some mom ?
come on, that is some drunken asstardery

and some think it's all cool to charge mom to the same level as the reckless porker ?
Just incredible

my wife, my child...that DA better get 24/7 protection
I would murder that family dead
complete elimination.
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Old March 18, 2018, 20:32   #37
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There was a time not so long, that a civilized nation state passed many horrendous laws, which the judges at that time found to be legal, and then hundreds of thousand police officers went about enforcing with gusto.

The police of that time frame also went to great links to protect their own, we're just following the law, bla, bla, bla when it was all over and done, when the politicians were dead, on the run, being hung, right beside the damned judges .

As in, this now former, maybe not, police officer could not have expected to kill some child by driving 94 mph in a what, 55 zone, on a public road, by law of course, all legal of course, and that the blame for all this rides with the mother???

Its good to see that much has not changed in the past 70 years.

Sociopaths also can't place themselves in the other persons shoes, or in this case, the mother of a dead child at the hands of some idiot driving 94 mph on a public highway.

If this is the way most police officers think today, G-D help us and them when they get the order to round up firearms, because they will hit that legal order with gusto, same as before.
Sigh. I guess, in your rush to slobber all over your keyboard, you completely missed the repetitive posts I have made that call for the speeding driver to be incarcerated for the rest of his life?

Finally, you are looking at the mother of this child as if she is some kind of saint, a conscientious, loving, caring mother when, by her reckless actions, she is clearly not. To her, the kid was no doubt just another welfare ticket, knocked out like another pay check by a revolving door of endless dead beat dads with no more concern for the child's safety than a cursory nod to the law by inadequately using a car seat. The death of the child is a tragedy but there are two people at fault for that death and both are being properly charged.

Some of you are clearly unable to read and comprehend what is written.
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Old March 18, 2018, 20:48   #38
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Shit paul you should try on the Hong Kong piglets Canada took in
straight loony toons, beat one down in BC outside a club in BC after he groped the wrong pussy.
Asshole kept howling I Police as I booted his sorry ass laying on the sidewalk.
yeah headed east right after that.

I am seriously respectful of decent LE, most here are
Running your Vette at nearly 100mph ?
broadsiding some mom ?
come on, that is some drunken asstardery

and some think it's all cool to charge mom to the same level as the reckless porker ?
Just incredible

my wife, my child...that DA better get 24/7 protection
I would murder that family dead
complete elimination.
Cool story bro. Has there ever been a time in your life when you haven't been a legend in your own lunchbox?


FYI, the speeder didn't broadside some "mom"; he ran into a vehicle driven by an inexperienced, unlicensed 18 year old driver who was probably driving because she was the only sober or unimpaired person in the vehicle. The poor child was and continues to be nothing more than a meal ticket for the ho that birthed it. She's no saint, no mother of the year and certainly, no-one who should be pitied.

When my daughter was small, she was literally babied to the nth degree by my wife and I. We were careful to ensure she had the right size car seat, that it was set up as rear facing, the straps were properly tightened and so on. In my older truck, it didn't have the latest fittings to strap the seat to so I used a much stronger ratchet strap to secure it to the seat base. Even to this day, even though she legally doesn't need to, she rides in a booster seat in the back when we travel. Its called giving a shit about your kid, cherishing them and holding yourself to a higher standard.

Slapping your baby into a sloppy fitting car seat, not tightening the straps correctly then balancing it on the center console isn't taking care of your kid or cherishing them. Its called reckless endangerment but obviously you think its OK that she behaves like that and shouldn't share any of the blame for her kid's death? Whatever...
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Old March 18, 2018, 20:52   #39
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Sigh. I guess, in your rush to slobber all over your keyboard, you completely missed the repetitive posts I have made that call for the speeding driver to be incarcerated for the rest of his life?

Finally, you are looking at the mother of this child as if she is some kind of saint, a conscientious, loving, caring mother when, by her reckless actions, she is clearly not. To her, the kid was no doubt just another welfare ticket, knocked out like another pay check by a revolving door of endless dead beat dads with no more concern for the child's safety than a cursory nod to the law by inadequately using a car seat. The death of the child is a tragedy but there are two people at fault for that death and both are being properly charged.

Some of you are clearly unable to read and comprehend what is written.

Gman, I've always been supportive of police officers, here on FF, as well in my public and private life.

I don't care, if this mother worked as a common aids infected street hooker for 2 dollar blow jobs, she still had to bury her baby child, plus carries some responsibility for that burial for the rest of her life.

There are two different issues here, one an idiot that drove like a mad man on a public street, and as far as I'm concerned, simply murdered someones baby with a 4000 pound bullet fired blindly into a crowd of innocent people.

Have you EVER driven your police cruiser having forgot to snap your seat belt?
You know you have, no one is perfect.
I watched an AZ State officer drive away today without a belt in place, it simply happens.

Parents forget to buckle up their children, no parent is perfect.
Every time you and any other officer cite someone for it, people, normal people simply forgot, over looked it, or maybe they don't care,, or maybe the kid unbuckled themselves, I raised one that loved to do that shit.

If your wife forgot to buckle up one of yours and your child was killed, I'd feel the same way as I and many others here feel about this one, sorry for the poor mother that had to bury her baby.

It ain't crying croc tears about this poor mother or however you said it, its simply being human and compassionate.

If you can't see and understand this, asked one of your local friends about signs of burn out in you, a friend that will tell you the truth.

You be safe on the job.
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Old March 19, 2018, 01:57   #40
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Cool story bro. Has there ever been a time in your life when you haven't been a legend in your own lunchbox?


FYI, the speeder didn't broadside some "mom"; he ran into a vehicle driven by an inexperienced, unlicensed 18 year old driver who was probably driving because she was the only sober or unimpaired person in the vehicle. The poor child was and continues to be nothing more than a meal ticket for the ho that birthed it. She's no saint, no mother of the year and certainly, no-one who should be pitied.

When my daughter was small, she was literally babied to the nth degree by my wife and I. We were careful to ensure she had the right size car seat, that it was set up as rear facing, the straps were properly tightened and so on. In my older truck, it didn't have the latest fittings to strap the seat to so I used a much stronger ratchet strap to secure it to the seat base. Even to this day, even though she legally doesn't need to, she rides in a booster seat in the back when we travel. Its called giving a shit about your kid, cherishing them and holding yourself to a higher standard.

Slapping your baby into a sloppy fitting car seat, not tightening the straps correctly then balancing it on the center console isn't taking care of your kid or cherishing them. Its called reckless endangerment but obviously you think its OK that she behaves like that and shouldn't share any of the blame for her kid's death? Whatever...
Well if you have not had a run in with all the Kato types Canada took in you really have no clue of it. Canadian law enforcement are generally speaking about the nicest folks on the planet. The Hong Kong fruits have serious chips on their shoulders though and feel they are licensed to disrespect white people, particularly women. Maybe it's cultural with them, maybe they are simply dickbags. You take your pick.
But I guess you are just all Okay with all that.

I'm simply saying negligent homicide is heavily over charging the matter with regards to this mom.

I respect being English you probably have a bit of the Nanny State Piers Morgan thing bred into you that makes it often difficult to understand these Bloody Colonial scoffalaws.

You seem to be making shit up btw
the reports were that the vehicle was attempting a left hand turn at a green when your maniac peer plowed into it flipping it over.
sure sounds like a broadside impact to me
Here's a pic of murder pig's vette at the scene. That's a frontal impact dude.



The kid was in the seat, she is being charged because it was not properly strapped in and the restraints were not properly adjusted for the size of the child. It wasn't the mom's car even
Sorry only in Jolly ole' England would that rise to being the same level of crime as murder piggo behind the wheel of that vette playing out his Miami Vice fantasy.

Here's what the current DA had to say about the matter, seems his office was completely blindsided by the Police:

"East Baton Rouge District Attorney Hillar Moore III said proving criminal negligence in Louisiana is also "extremely difficult." It means proving "beyond a reasonable doubt that an individual's conduct is more than a mere deviation from the standard of ordinary care; it must be a gross deviation below the standard of care expected to be maintained by a reasonably careful person under like circumstances," he said. Then the state must also prove that deviation caused the death in question.

Moore said criminal negligence equates to "almost an intentional type of act."

Moore said after Stephens was arrested that his office has not yet received the reports they need to determine whether either she or Manuel will face charges. He said prosecutors "will review all reports, charges and arrests and make the appropriate decisions based upon facts and law." He said he hopes to announce those decisions soon."

It's important to note the DAs office still has not decided whether to prosecute either murder piggo or the mom. All that so far has happened is the arrests of both by the Police apparently
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Old March 19, 2018, 07:49   #41
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likely part of the reason she is being charged is due to a piglet being the true actor in the event.
my point encapsulated.

the mother is being charged to reduce the focus on the person who did the deed and who is being protected because he is connected to those responsible for bringing charges.
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Old March 19, 2018, 08:59   #42
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my point encapsulated.

the mother is being charged to reduce the focus on the person who did the deed and who is being protected because he is connected to those responsible for bringing charges.
yeah, that thin blue line can run mighty wide in parts of the deep south unfortunately.

Seeing how the DAs office was not even consulted prior to the the arrests coupled with the DAs own statements that they had not even seen the investigative reports this can go either direction.

Interestingly there are law makers and law professors down there that see charging her as an enormous over reach by the Police.
Do I think the mom should walk scott free ?
Nope, not at all
she bears some level of culpability
just not to the same degree as the idiot with a badge.

Again, the child was in the seat
the issue was there were not enough seats with belts in the vehicle for the number of occupants resulting in the unrestrained seat.
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Old March 20, 2018, 06:25   #43
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Well if you have not had a run in with all the Kato types Canada took in you really have no clue of it. Canadian law enforcement are generally speaking about the nicest folks on the planet. The Hong Kong fruits have serious chips on their shoulders though and feel they are licensed to disrespect white people, particularly women. Maybe it's cultural with them, maybe they are simply dickbags. You take your pick.
But I guess you are just all Okay with all that.

I'm simply saying negligent homicide is heavily over charging the matter with regards to this mom.

I respect being English you probably have a bit of the Nanny State Piers Morgan thing bred into you that makes it often difficult to understand these Bloody Colonial scoffalaws.

You seem to be making shit up btw
the reports were that the vehicle was attempting a left hand turn at a green when your maniac peer plowed into it flipping it over.
sure sounds like a broadside impact to me
Here's a pic of murder pig's vette at the scene. That's a frontal impact dude.



The kid was in the seat, she is being charged because it was not properly strapped in and the restraints were not properly adjusted for the size of the child. It wasn't the mom's car even
Sorry only in Jolly ole' England would that rise to being the same level of crime as murder piggo behind the wheel of that vette playing out his Miami Vice fantasy.

Here's what the current DA had to say about the matter, seems his office was completely blindsided by the Police:

"East Baton Rouge District Attorney Hillar Moore III said proving criminal negligence in Louisiana is also "extremely difficult." It means proving "beyond a reasonable doubt that an individual's conduct is more than a mere deviation from the standard of ordinary care; it must be a gross deviation below the standard of care expected to be maintained by a reasonably careful person under like circumstances," he said. Then the state must also prove that deviation caused the death in question.

Moore said criminal negligence equates to "almost an intentional type of act."

Moore said after Stephens was arrested that his office has not yet received the reports they need to determine whether either she or Manuel will face charges. He said prosecutors "will review all reports, charges and arrests and make the appropriate decisions based upon facts and law." He said he hopes to announce those decisions soon."

It's important to note the DAs office still has not decided whether to prosecute either murder piggo or the mom. All that so far has happened is the arrests of both by the Police apparently
Doh. Read what I posted: never disputed he broadsided the vehicle. I disputed your assertion the mom was driving which she wasn't. The unlicensed, inexperienced 18 year old was and it was my speculative offering that she was driving likely because she was not as intoxicated or under the influence as the rest of the adults in the vehicle.

As a parent, your #1 concern has to be the care and well being of the child. For the 'tard masquerading as a parent, it clearly wasn't or someone would have been walking or taking an Uber so the child could be properly fastened into a seat. Or she would be the one walking with her kid. This is not difficult to understand and I see finally you accept she bears some culpability for the death of the child.

Interesting the cops have allegedly arrested and charged both without consulting with the DA's Office. That doesn't happen in my AO; the DA has to be on board with the arrests and charging, especially if a warrant is involved because the DA has to sign off on the warrant prior to it being signed by a judge. No DA signature = no Judge signature.
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Old March 20, 2018, 07:06   #44
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Gman, I've always been supportive of police officers, here on FF, as well in my public and private life.

I don't care, if this mother worked as a common aids infected street hooker for 2 dollar blow jobs, she still had to bury her baby child, plus carries some responsibility for that burial for the rest of her life.

There are two different issues here, one an idiot that drove like a mad man on a public street, and as far as I'm concerned, simply murdered someones baby with a 4000 pound bullet fired blindly into a crowd of innocent people.

Have you EVER driven your police cruiser having forgot to snap your seat belt?
You know you have, no one is perfect.
I watched an AZ State officer drive away today without a belt in place, it simply happens.

Parents forget to buckle up their children, no parent is perfect.
Every time you and any other officer cite someone for it, people, normal people simply forgot, over looked it, or maybe they don't care,, or maybe the kid unbuckled themselves, I raised one that loved to do that shit.

If your wife forgot to buckle up one of yours and your child was killed, I'd feel the same way as I and many others here feel about this one, sorry for the poor mother that had to bury her baby.

It ain't crying croc tears about this poor mother or however you said it, its simply being human and compassionate.

If you can't see and understand this, asked one of your local friends about signs of burn out in you, a friend that will tell you the truth.

You be safe on the job.
There is a disconnect here between what you and most of the public think a "mom" should do, feel, think and care about and what I have personally witnessed, investigated, been trained on and arrested over the last 8 years. There was a time in my life when I thought moms were the best people to look after their kids; well, I don't automatically think that way anymore.

A few personal stories might illustrate what I'm talking about.

Working DWI patrol in an unmarked SUV, a vehicle pulled alongside of me with a kid sitting on mom's lap in the passenger seat. Stopped them and found the reason the kid was sitting on mom's lap was they had just bought a 20 ton press from Harbor Freight and with the seats folded down in the back, they couldn't have the kid in its car seat.

I actually helped them breakdown the cardboard box the press came in and rearrange the pieces and parts so as to allow one seat to sit back up so they could put the kid in the car seat and be safe for their 100 MILE trip back to the rez. They didn't have enough brains to do this themselves but hey, its only an unrestrained kid right???

Stopped a mom for speeding; 65 in a 30. 3 kids in the back, not a car seat between them and not one of them over 5 years old. Mom has a revoked driver's license, not supposed to be driving but is anyway and lo and behold, blows a .20. Did she or did she not place her kids in more danger by driving drunk?

We get a call; mom says boyfriend is walking away from her, she wants our help to stop him. She says she is driving minivan following BF on Main St. We arrive, mom has 10 year daughter in vehicle so daughter can blow into the interlock so mom can start van to follow BF. Mom arrested, blows a .16. Side note, a year later, I arrest BF for sexually abusing daughter. Mom knew, chose to ignore it so she could keep BF. WTF???

I get called to pediatricians office; 4 year old girl has gonorrhea. During investigation, mom claims daughter is never left alone with anyone, must have happened while with dad on the rez. Investigation conclusively proves mom's cousin anally raped daughter while mom at work. Mom still defends cousin because she is certain dad did it regardless of medical evidence showing cousin had gonorrhea but dad has never had it.

12 year old female discloses sexual abuse to teacher. Investigation reveals mom has been pimping daughter out to various dopers for meth and has been doing so since daughter was 5 years old. Further investigation reveals photos of daughter on child porn sites.

Get called to a DV at a trailer park 4 days before Xmas, with temps well below freezing. Walk in trailer and there is trash everywhere. Stove has oven door open with burners going as sole source of heat. No running water, one toilet is full to the brim with shit, the other is blocked solid with dried shit. Two kids in back room I think are dead, laid on mattresses on floor with coats on them but are fortunately not yet dead, just suffering from hypothermia. Baby in crib is laid in remains of an ashtray, 18 month old is less than a foot away from a gaping hole in an interior wall with exposed wires and nails. There are flies buzzing everywhere, the counters are covered in old, moldy food and nasty plates. Exposed wires and sharps everywhere. Parents claim to be short of money yet there is no shortage of empty booze bottles...

Get called to report of a kid's hands caught in a window. Find two kids in a room with door screwed shut. No AC in middle of summer in high desert with outside temps over 95 degrees. Kids attempted to escape through the window but window slammed shut on oldest kid's hands. Neighbors managed to free the kids. The room they were in was full of dog shit. Entire house is a health hazard so much so, we called fire to assist with full body suits and breathing apparatus. Parents claimed kids were a "distraction" and they wanted time to themselves so they could fcuk some more. Kids are dehydrated, under nourished and sick because of all the dog and human shit in the house, smeared on the floors, walls and furniture.

That's a brief snippet of the shit I have personally dealt with over the years. Arrested many folks who drive while highly intoxicated with their kids in the car. I've been to training events where the photos of what moms (and dads) have done to their children will make you puke. Imagine what happens to a child's skin when they are forced into boiling water because they won't stop crying. It ain't pretty.

There are plenty of shitty parents out there and this kunt is one of them. She didn't care enough about her child to ensure her safety so fcuk her and I'm not spilling one tear for her. No sympathy because she failed the ONE person who the kid was supposed to be able to count on to keep her safe. Like I said, we'll never know if the poor little girl would have survived the crash but with this bitch for a mom, she never had a chance.

No, people aren't perfect but I have NEVER, NEVER failed to buckle my child into a car seat, not ONCE. Like the assholes who kill their kids by leaving them in hot cars, they should be in jail forever.
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Old March 20, 2018, 10:58   #45
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There is a disconnect here between what you and most of the public think a "mom" should do, feel, think and care about and what I have personally witnessed, investigated, been trained on and arrested over the last 8 years. There was a time in my life when I thought moms were the best people to look after their kids; well, I don't automatically think that way anymore.

A few personal stories might illustrate what I'm talking about.

Working DWI patrol in an unmarked SUV, a vehicle pulled alongside of me with a kid sitting on mom's lap in the passenger seat. Stopped them and found the reason the kid was sitting on mom's lap was they had just bought a 20 ton press from Harbor Freight and with the seats folded down in the back, they couldn't have the kid in its car seat.

I actually helped them breakdown the cardboard box the press came in and rearrange the pieces and parts so as to allow one seat to sit back up so they could put the kid in the car seat and be safe for their 100 MILE trip back to the rez. They didn't have enough brains to do this themselves but hey, its only an unrestrained kid right???

Stopped a mom for speeding; 65 in a 30. 3 kids in the back, not a car seat between them and not one of them over 5 years old. Mom has a revoked driver's license, not supposed to be driving but is anyway and lo and behold, blows a .20. Did she or did she not place her kids in more danger by driving drunk?

We get a call; mom says boyfriend is walking away from her, she wants our help to stop him. She says she is driving minivan following BF on Main St. We arrive, mom has 10 year daughter in vehicle so daughter can blow into the interlock so mom can start van to follow BF. Mom arrested, blows a .16. Side note, a year later, I arrest BF for sexually abusing daughter. Mom knew, chose to ignore it so she could keep BF. WTF???

I get called to pediatricians office; 4 year old girl has gonorrhea. During investigation, mom claims daughter is never left alone with anyone, must have happened while with dad on the rez. Investigation conclusively proves mom's cousin anally raped daughter while mom at work. Mom still defends cousin because she is certain dad did it regardless of medical evidence showing cousin had gonorrhea but dad has never had it.

12 year old female discloses sexual abuse to teacher. Investigation reveals mom has been pimping daughter out to various dopers for meth and has been doing so since daughter was 5 years old. Further investigation reveals photos of daughter on child porn sites.

Get called to a DV at a trailer park 4 days before Xmas, with temps well below freezing. Walk in trailer and there is trash everywhere. Stove has oven door open with burners going as sole source of heat. No running water, one toilet is full to the brim with shit, the other is blocked solid with dried shit. Two kids in back room I think are dead, laid on mattresses on floor with coats on them but are fortunately not yet dead, just suffering from hypothermia. Baby in crib is laid in remains of an ashtray, 18 month old is less than a foot away from a gaping hole in an interior wall with exposed wires and nails. There are flies buzzing everywhere, the counters are covered in old, moldy food and nasty plates. Exposed wires and sharps everywhere. Parents claim to be short of money yet there is no shortage of empty booze bottles...

Get called to report of a kid's hands caught in a window. Find two kids in a room with door screwed shut. No AC in middle of summer in high desert with outside temps over 95 degrees. Kids attempted to escape through the window but window slammed shut on oldest kid's hands. Neighbors managed to free the kids. The room they were in was full of dog shit. Entire house is a health hazard so much so, we called fire to assist with full body suits and breathing apparatus. Parents claimed kids were a "distraction" and they wanted time to themselves so they could fcuk some more. Kids are dehydrated, under nourished and sick because of all the dog and human shit in the house, smeared on the floors, walls and furniture.

That's a brief snippet of the shit I have personally dealt with over the years. Arrested many folks who drive while highly intoxicated with their kids in the car. I've been to training events where the photos of what moms (and dads) have done to their children will make you puke. Imagine what happens to a child's skin when they are forced into boiling water because they won't stop crying. It ain't pretty.

There are plenty of shitty parents out there and this kunt is one of them. She didn't care enough about her child to ensure her safety so fcuk her and I'm not spilling one tear for her. No sympathy because she failed the ONE person who the kid was supposed to be able to count on to keep her safe. Like I said, we'll never know if the poor little girl would have survived the crash but with this bitch for a mom, she never had a chance.

No, people aren't perfect but I have NEVER, NEVER failed to buckle my child into a car seat, not ONCE. Like the assholes who kill their kids by leaving them in hot cars, they should be in jail forever.
So these above examples of "mom of the year" are horrifying.

That completely changes the responsibility ratio here to 50/50. All these examples should be brought into the court as justification for the charge. I honestly could care less about the mom, her kids, or the price of tea in China.
What the story illustrates is that Joe LEO, joyriding at 94MPH, can smoke another vehicle, and the powers that be will try to have "mom of the year" share in that responsibility.
"Mom of the year" disregarded a safety law that could have prevented a death. (maybe) She probably did not expect a 94mph Vette to ram the vehicle. (maybe she should have)

Joe LEO recklessly endangered others by deliberately driving at an excessive speed. He disregarded everyone's safety.

Now, "mom of the year" is probably pretty ignorant and stupid. (just my speculation)

Joe LEO has been schooled on safety, safety, safety, seen many of the scenes you describe above. (I imagine) He should be the example.

Who's getting paid leave, again?
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Old March 20, 2018, 12:20   #46
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gman doesn't care if the douchebag gets off. the douchebag is a brother to the gman. the evil mother is the real problem, and needs to be punished severely, in gmans world.

good thing most of us don't live there (literally, and figuratively).

people who choose to put themselves in positions of influence and power are usually the last people we want to entrust with that responsibility. gman may be a great guy, but his repeated diversion of responsibility away from the perpetrator in this case is troubling, and indicates a lack of detachment and reasoning.

people on "the job" usually become monsters, if they weren't one before taking such a position. it's not a natural position for the human animal to occupy in nature, so the position, itself, cannot exist without perversion. it is in direct contravention of human nature, which is the result of a million years of biological development and genetic programming at a sub-conscious level.

gman doesn't even see it, because he has to generate so many constructs to validate his unnatural position. he is, however, a reasoning man, so he should be able to identify his own sub-conscious process when evidence of it is shown to him. he has actually had training to do this, if he is authorized to engage in law enforcement. this is required coursework.

of course, we know that policemen are 100-105 IQ average, no 135 like engineers, philosophers, and physicians. some people just can't be reached, i suppose.
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Old March 20, 2018, 14:42   #47
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There is a disconnect here between what you and most of the public think a "mom" should do, feel, think and care about and what I have personally witnessed, investigated, been trained on and arrested over the last 8 years. There was a time in my life when I thought moms were the best people to look after their kids; well, I don't automatically think that way anymore.

A few personal stories might illustrate what I'm talking about.

Working DWI patrol in an unmarked SUV, a vehicle pulled alongside of me with a kid sitting on mom's lap in the passenger seat. Stopped them and found the reason the kid was sitting on mom's lap was they had just bought a 20 ton press from Harbor Freight and with the seats folded down in the back, they couldn't have the kid in its car seat.

I actually helped them breakdown the cardboard box the press came in and rearrange the pieces and parts so as to allow one seat to sit back up so they could put the kid in the car seat and be safe for their 100 MILE trip back to the rez. They didn't have enough brains to do this themselves but hey, its only an unrestrained kid right???

Stopped a mom for speeding; 65 in a 30. 3 kids in the back, not a car seat between them and not one of them over 5 years old. Mom has a revoked driver's license, not supposed to be driving but is anyway and lo and behold, blows a .20. Did she or did she not place her kids in more danger by driving drunk?

We get a call; mom says boyfriend is walking away from her, she wants our help to stop him. She says she is driving minivan following BF on Main St. We arrive, mom has 10 year daughter in vehicle so daughter can blow into the interlock so mom can start van to follow BF. Mom arrested, blows a .16. Side note, a year later, I arrest BF for sexually abusing daughter. Mom knew, chose to ignore it so she could keep BF. WTF???

I get called to pediatricians office; 4 year old girl has gonorrhea. During investigation, mom claims daughter is never left alone with anyone, must have happened while with dad on the rez. Investigation conclusively proves mom's cousin anally raped daughter while mom at work. Mom still defends cousin because she is certain dad did it regardless of medical evidence showing cousin had gonorrhea but dad has never had it.

12 year old female discloses sexual abuse to teacher. Investigation reveals mom has been pimping daughter out to various dopers for meth and has been doing so since daughter was 5 years old. Further investigation reveals photos of daughter on child porn sites.

Get called to a DV at a trailer park 4 days before Xmas, with temps well below freezing. Walk in trailer and there is trash everywhere. Stove has oven door open with burners going as sole source of heat. No running water, one toilet is full to the brim with shit, the other is blocked solid with dried shit. Two kids in back room I think are dead, laid on mattresses on floor with coats on them but are fortunately not yet dead, just suffering from hypothermia. Baby in crib is laid in remains of an ashtray, 18 month old is less than a foot away from a gaping hole in an interior wall with exposed wires and nails. There are flies buzzing everywhere, the counters are covered in old, moldy food and nasty plates. Exposed wires and sharps everywhere. Parents claim to be short of money yet there is no shortage of empty booze bottles...

Get called to report of a kid's hands caught in a window. Find two kids in a room with door screwed shut. No AC in middle of summer in high desert with outside temps over 95 degrees. Kids attempted to escape through the window but window slammed shut on oldest kid's hands. Neighbors managed to free the kids. The room they were in was full of dog shit. Entire house is a health hazard so much so, we called fire to assist with full body suits and breathing apparatus. Parents claimed kids were a "distraction" and they wanted time to themselves so they could fcuk some more. Kids are dehydrated, under nourished and sick because of all the dog and human shit in the house, smeared on the floors, walls and furniture.

That's a brief snippet of the shit I have personally dealt with over the years. Arrested many folks who drive while highly intoxicated with their kids in the car. I've been to training events where the photos of what moms (and dads) have done to their children will make you puke. Imagine what happens to a child's skin when they are forced into boiling water because they won't stop crying. It ain't pretty.

There are plenty of shitty parents out there and this kunt is one of them. She didn't care enough about her child to ensure her safety so fcuk her and I'm not spilling one tear for her. No sympathy because she failed the ONE person who the kid was supposed to be able to count on to keep her safe. Like I said, we'll never know if the poor little girl would have survived the crash but with this bitch for a mom, she never had a chance.

No, people aren't perfect but I have NEVER, NEVER failed to buckle my child into a car seat, not ONCE. Like the assholes who kill their kids by leaving them in hot cars, they should be in jail forever.
Your job, puts you into a position to see, and remember, the worst that humanity has to offer on a daily basis.

After a while, anyone in this position, ONLY see's the worst of humanity in everyone they come into contact with.

Its easy and normal, after a while doing you job, to only see and equate all parents are guilty of sins raising their children.

For every disgusting mother/father you see and deal with daily on the job, there are millions doing the right thing daily.

Pretty soon, being on this job, it turns into, all mothers/fathers/parents are bad, guilty of something.

You remind me of a couple of dear friends here, one retired Fed law dog, and the other a working LEO.
They see everyone committing crimes of some type with everyone they meet, me included.

I stopped making friends for a long period of time(years and years) once.
Because every friend I'd had, seemed like they managed to go get themselves shot, blown up, and killed.

This came with the JOB I was doing, but the brain works to protect itself, and this got turned around too, don't make friends and your friends won't get killed.

You see, and then look for, without even knowing you're doing it, that what you see everyday on the job is normal, it ain't normal though.

You need a friend or friends that will tell you, remind you, that what you see everyday on the job, simply ain't normal.

Just saying.
You Be safe on the job.
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Old March 20, 2018, 17:31   #48
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gman doesn't care if the douchebag gets off. the douchebag is a brother to the gman. the evil mother is the real problem, and needs to be punished severely, in gmans world.

good thing most of us don't live there (literally, and figuratively).

people who choose to put themselves in positions of influence and power are usually the last people we want to entrust with that responsibility. gman may be a great guy, but his repeated diversion of responsibility away from the perpetrator in this case is troubling, and indicates a lack of detachment and reasoning.

people on "the job" usually become monsters, if they weren't one before taking such a position. it's not a natural position for the human animal to occupy in nature, so the position, itself, cannot exist without perversion. it is in direct contravention of human nature, which is the result of a million years of biological development and genetic programming at a sub-conscious level.

gman doesn't even see it, because he has to generate so many constructs to validate his unnatural position. he is, however, a reasoning man, so he should be able to identify his own sub-conscious process when evidence of it is shown to him. he has actually had training to do this, if he is authorized to engage in law enforcement. this is required coursework.

of course, we know that policemen are 100-105 IQ average, no 135 like engineers, philosophers, and physicians. some people just can't be reached, i suppose.
Sigh. Did your parents have any kids that lived?

Point to a SINGLE statement I have made that supports your assertion that I have said the driver should be released or treated leniently? You CAN'T because I have NEVER said that, not ONCE. In fact, I have REPEATEDLY said the driver should be incarcerated for the rest of his life. Not a hard concept to grasp. I share NOTHING with this turd other than a profession and he should NOT be on paid leave but perhaps that is the agreement his union has negotiated with the department?

The mother bears some responsibility for the incident because she FAILED in her duty of care towards the child in her care. In such cases, the state has the right and responsibility to prosecute her for her negligence and failure. End of conversation.

Edited to add: I have a tested and accredited IQ of 157 which kinda pisses all over your assertion. In working with engineers, many of them are intelligent but completely lacking in commonsense. I am not the one with the bias; it makes no difference to me what the dickhead driver did for a living but it apparently does to you and others so who has the bias??
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Last edited by the gman; March 21, 2018 at 04:25. Reason: Additional refutation of bullshit assertions by an infantile idiot.
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Old March 20, 2018, 17:44   #49
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Your job, puts you into a position to see, and remember, the worst that humanity has to offer on a daily basis.

After a while, anyone in this position, ONLY see's the worst of humanity in everyone they come into contact with.

Its easy and normal, after a while doing you job, to only see and equate all parents are guilty of sins raising their children.

For every disgusting mother/father you see and deal with daily on the job, there are millions doing the right thing daily.

Pretty soon, being on this job, it turns into, all mothers/fathers/parents are bad, guilty of something.

You remind me of a couple of dear friends here, one retired Fed law dog, and the other a working LEO.
They see everyone committing crimes of some type with everyone they meet, me included.

I stopped making friends for a long period of time(years and years) once.
Because every friend I'd had, seemed like they managed to go get themselves shot, blown up, and killed.

This came with the JOB I was doing, but the brain works to protect itself, and this got turned around too, don't make friends and your friends won't get killed.

You see, and then look for, without even knowing you're doing it, that what you see everyday on the job is normal, it ain't normal though.

You need a friend or friends that will tell you, remind you, that what you see everyday on the job, simply ain't normal.

Just saying.
You Be safe on the job.
Negative. I still see the goodness in most people; its why I write about 80% warning citations. Not everyone is a criminal and yes, most mothers do a good job of raising their kids. What I do see however, is that mothers like this one, who do a cursory job of protecting and caring for their child deserve to be held accountable for their failures and the emotion many use to excuse her terrible behavior is flawed.
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God is on the side, not of the big battalions, but of the best shots- Voltaire

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Old March 20, 2018, 17:55   #50
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Originally Posted by the gman View Post
Negative. I still see the goodness in most people; its why I write about 80% warning citations. Not everyone is a criminal and yes, most mothers do a good job of raising their kids. What I do see however, is that mothers like this one, who do a cursory job of protecting and caring for their child deserve to be held accountable for their failures and the emotion many use to excuse her terrible behavior is flawed.
Good, you just be careful not to slip to the other side, it can be easily done by the best of us.
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It ain't the firearms they are wanting to be rid of, its you!
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