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Old July 12, 2018, 16:32   #51
Bawana jim
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So, you have tried to tap dance around the question and it was really simple.

How is the Hammonds resistance being told what to do by government wholly different than the Indians?

By your posts above, the indians could've been rich now and shouldn't have resisted the government who were actively tried to eradicate them by any means possible because they were standing in the way of progress and who didn't like being told what to do and didn't just give up their land and homes and other things that they had literally thousands of years before that government came into existance.

But the cowboys on the other hand should've resisted because the government was wrong to have told them to feed their cows somewhere else.

Gotcha.

You didn't understand any of what's posted but it's ok. I quit arguments with you guys because I end up typing huge amounts to make a point and yall walk away still in the dark. If you can't see the difference between the way savage indians were treated compared to our ranchers on your own then there is no help for you from me.

If you really need an argument go see J, he is the site troll and works hard to make a point. Or RJ if you don't mind being called names. If you want intelligent argument then see bubs. I just don't care to argue any more, I am living in a world I never get tired of winning in
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Old July 12, 2018, 17:16   #52
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John has made an excellent point. You should study how our Founders treated the peaceful Indians in the East. they encouraged the British to set up trading posts, let the Indians get too deep in debt to ever pay it off, then take their lands. Then the British would sell the lands cheaply to Americans. If the Indians refused to leave their land, then they'd send the military in.

What went on with the Hammonds is on a much smaller scale.
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Old July 12, 2018, 17:21   #53
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John has made an excellent point. You should study how our Founders treated the peaceful Indians in the East. they encouraged the British to set up trading posts, let the Indians get too deep in debt to ever pay it off, then take their lands. Then the British would sell the lands cheaply to Americans. If the Indians refused to leave their land, then they'd send the military in.

What went on with the Hammonds is on a much smaller scale.
You realize that was the Brittish? So how did the indians treat the indians, how did they get their land?
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Old July 12, 2018, 17:29   #54
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It's a waste of time trying to talk to you. The British with the *wink wink* approval of our Founders.

Here's a good book on the subject. I bought many years ago.

https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Jeffersons.../dp/0195176073
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Old July 12, 2018, 17:37   #55
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It's a waste of time trying to talk to you. The British with the *wink wink* approval of our Founders.
Yes for you it is a waste of time. See you just can't grasp a subject, I have to ask little questions to get you on track and still you don't get it. I asked how did the indians get their land? You never answered but they took it from other indians. Now how did the Hammonds get their land, it was legally purchased or rented from the government.

Can you see the difference?
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Old July 12, 2018, 17:39   #56
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You're so ignorant of American history it's sad. It doesn't prevent you from spouting your opinion though.
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Old July 12, 2018, 17:48   #57
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One thing about the Hammonds case that pisses me off is...they served their original sentence for lighting the backfires, they were then re-sentenced under the terrorist law and sent back to prison thanks to some ladder climbing POS Fed prosecutor.....

Guilty or not...they did their time and the state kicked them in the nuts and sent them back. That is one HUGE injustice IMHO.
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Old July 12, 2018, 17:53   #58
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You're so ignorant of American history it's sad. It doesn't prevent you from spouting your opinion though.
I will do my part to protect you snowflake and we won't waste bandwidth on your whining about my opinions. by dude, won't be seeing you again.
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Old July 12, 2018, 18:33   #59
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still delivering as promised.

score another win for the patriot good guys on Team Freedom,

and another qualified Go F u ck yourself to the pissant skalawags on Team Statist:
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Old July 12, 2018, 18:42   #60
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I will do my part to protect you snowflake and we won't waste bandwidth on your whining about my opinions. by dude, won't be seeing you again.
Start reading some books researched and written by real historians. You'll come across much better.

You're welcome.
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Old July 12, 2018, 18:45   #61
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They don't seem like terrorists to me.

I thought the Hammonds played their cards right when they asked Bundy and his group not to engage in armed protest. If they had....would they have been pardoned? I doubt it.
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Old July 12, 2018, 18:46   #62
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One thing about the Hammonds case that pisses me off is...they served their original sentence for lighting the backfires, they were then re-sentenced under the terrorist law and sent back to prison thanks to some ladder climbing POS Fed prosecutor.....

Guilty or not...they did their time and the state kicked them in the nuts and sent them back. That is one HUGE injustice IMHO.

^^^ This. Kinda shocking that there are some among us who are still willing, even anxious to argue the point. This one outta be a no-brainer if ever there was one.

One thing I have noticed is that the ones among us who have a problem with freedom is they seem to be, to the last one, more concerned with outcomes than principle. In this they are very much like the enemy, I speak of course of what are commonly called liberals. They're all about process as long as it gets them what they want. But tell them they can't have what they want and all that freedom and tolerance shit falls by the wayside.

Seems they still haven't learned that they live in an imperfect world. I'm thinking they were badly raised.
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Old July 12, 2018, 19:55   #63
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Yes for you it is a waste of time. See you just can't grasp a subject, I have to ask little questions to get you on track and still you don't get it. I asked how did the indians get their land? You never answered but they took it from other indians. Now how did the Hammonds get their land, it was legally purchased or rented from the government.

Can you see the difference?
I grasp subject matter just fine. It's just that what you base your opinion on is fatally flawed in the first place.

And if your facts are incorrect in step one, every step thereafter are also going to be flawed.

I asked you a question earlier, to which you deflected to something else. Now you want someone else to answer one of your questions that you think makes you sound smart.

Did (some) Indians get their land from wars and battles fought?

Sure did.

Long before there was the United States Government, long before there was a Brittain, France or any other country that "discovered" this continent and encroached onto their territory.

So why would an indian tribe that's already established their boundaries pay or trade with anyone to keep what was already theirs since the beginning?

Especially when someone encroached into their territory that they were claiming in the first place for untold numerous generations of time.

Maybe an illegal immigrant should come kick you out of your house and claim it as theirs. I'm sure you'd be fine with that.

And of course, there are other indian tribal lands were never disputed by other tribes to my knowledge.

Many of the "savages" as you called them actually respected their treaties and their word to each other and their own territorial boundaries.

Yes, that is a hijack from the hammonds, but just needed to be said.
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Old July 12, 2018, 20:06   #64
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...I'm thinking they were badly raised.
or they are criminally inclined, as admitted to precisely that in several notable instances, also the most mouthy of the lot.
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Old July 12, 2018, 21:15   #65
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They don't seem like terrorists to me.

I thought the Hammonds played their cards right when they asked Bundy and his group not to engage in armed protest. If they had....would they have been pardoned? I doubt it.
We are in agreement.

Had they gone-along nothing would have come of it.

We only get out of this life what we are willing to put into-it.

PTL!

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Old July 12, 2018, 21:41   #66
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American Indians found out what happens when you stand in the way of progress. Bolivia will either stand in the way or get rich as is their choice. Our ranchers stood in the way of corruption, it was their choice.
It is not standing in the way of progress. It is standing in the way of the inevitable outcome. Most outcomes are inevitable. The details of who or when are irrelevant.
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Old July 12, 2018, 21:43   #67
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So the reference to Indians standing in the way, was that a jab that they would've been rich now had they not stood in the way? Just curious.
Nope. It would have turned out exactly as it did.
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Old July 12, 2018, 21:46   #68
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I don't recall very many casinos from 1500-1800's.

I think defending their land and families and way of life against hostile takeover got them killed.
Yep. But they were a stone age people in conflict with the industrial revolution. They faired better than the neaderthals, so far anyway.
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Old July 12, 2018, 21:52   #69
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So, if the ranchers had just embraced change like the Indians should've and just rolled over and gave them their land and property for the greater good, things would always just be peachy?

Both of your views about the indians and then the cowboys contradict the other one.
We are in the exact same conflict today. The elites would drive us all into urban slums, minimizing our consumption of resources, and turning flyover country into a giant park for their private amusement. There will be no hunting the King's game, nor driving upon their lands with ATVs.

We should be good serfs, pay our 50% taxes, and eat bran. Ef that.
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Old July 12, 2018, 21:55   #70
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One thing about the Hammonds case that pisses me off is...they served their original sentence for lighting the backfires, they were then re-sentenced under the terrorist law and sent back to prison thanks to some ladder climbing POS Fed prosecutor.....

Guilty or not...they did their time and the state kicked them in the nuts and sent them back. That is one HUGE injustice IMHO.
True that.
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Old July 12, 2018, 22:18   #71
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I grasp subject matter just fine. It's just that what you base your opinion on is fatally flawed in the first place.

And if your facts are incorrect in step one, every step thereafter are also going to be flawed.

I asked you a question earlier, to which you deflected to something else. Now you want someone else to answer one of your questions that you think makes you sound smart.

Did (some) Indians get their land from wars and battles fought?

Sure did.

Long before there was the United States Government, long before there was a Brittain, France or any other country that "discovered" this continent and encroached onto their territory.

So why would an indian tribe that's already established their boundaries pay or trade with anyone to keep what was already theirs since the beginning?

Especially when someone encroached into their territory that they were claiming in the first place for untold numerous generations of time.

Maybe an illegal immigrant should come kick you out of your house and claim it as theirs. I'm sure you'd be fine with that.

And of course, there are other indian tribal lands were never disputed by other tribes to my knowledge.

Many of the "savages" as you called them actually respected their treaties and their word to each other and their own territorial boundaries.

Yes, that is a hijack from the hammonds, but just needed to be said.
Indeed I have flaws and I hope to correct them. Arguments have been one of them because I am flawed and I let folks troll me into worthless debates. Like your conversation here, the only real history you know for sure is that history you personally lived through. Everything else you have been told and you chose to believe it so much that you are willing to mock another person on their opinion.

History buffs make me chuckle, they should be out making history rather than reading what they want to believe. Later dude, I am done here.
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