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Old March 26, 2018, 14:01   #1
shores303
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Geiger Counters

Has anyone had any luck with the CD Geiger Counters. They are pretty reasonable on ePay for the moment. Any suggestions would be helpful

Thanks,

Garry
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Old March 26, 2018, 14:26   #2
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I have one - former AZ CD. Just like the AN/PDR-27J. Couple radiacmeters (aka IM 93) and zeroing device (pp1578?). Kindof hard to test. Does pickup background. When I was NBC, had turn in my Americium 95 rod. Haven't tried it with Tritium. Have considered upgrading the headset.
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Old March 26, 2018, 14:55   #3
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I bought an eBay one, it did not work too well, but was not much$$$ lost.
Then I bought a refurbished, calibrated CD V-700 from these guys, works great.
It was many years ago, not sure if they still sell them or not.
http://www.radmeters4u.com/
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Old March 28, 2018, 14:14   #4
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One of my most frequent climbing partners and good friend does radiation safety for a living. Worked as a "job shopper" for first ten years working random plants during refueling shut downs keeping maintenance workers safe and makeing sure there were no leaks or accidents along with mapping every square meter of every room, valve and pipe. After that he did five or so years in containment and mitigation of Superfund sites which after the Savannah River cleanup went and got a job at a university controlling the distribution, tracking, handling and disposal of all radioactive material.

Will ask him today for some advice on consumer grade equipment. He always said we picked up more rads in a year of regular rock climbing than he was allowed working in a nuclear plant. Couple of trips he put dosimeters in our climbing packs and based on rads per day allowed at end of every trip we were over what a nuclear plant worker is allowed in same time frame. If live near a large chunk of granite like Stone Mountain in Atlanta, Western North Carolina. the Shawangunks of NY, Northern NH, East Coast of Maine, Yosemite California, etc then your possibly getting more rads than the folks that work at nuclear facilities unless it goes Three Mile Island or Chernobyl.

When they were working the watershed from Savannah River plant toward the actual river they first had the place sprayed from air with herbicide then had professional "hunters" come in using helicopters, quad runners, trucks and walking kill every animal in area they were working and bodies had to be disposed of as nuclear contamination. Then all the trees and vegitation were cut and sent to Arizona behind all the animals. (Thanx AZ...) At one time they allowed deer hunting in some of the area they capped.

After that they had a machine that looked like a big auger that bored down ten feet and injected a special blend of cement with the dirt after the really hot spots were excavated and trucked to AZ again, which created a ten foot deep masonry cap over an area of over 100 acres I know, possibly more. Goal was to keep water from leaching into the soil and pushing contaminates there was no way they could really haul off farther into the water table. He said would never eat fish that were caught downstream from the plant or anywhere within about 40 miles in any direction of where the river dumps into the ocean often knowingly.

Like the Lockheed-Martin test reactor site near Dawsonville GA which is a wildlife management area the local game warden said he would not eat any of the deer shot there and saw a lot of odd animals with serious birth defects or genetic mutations. My dad worked there when he first got out of the Navy as well as several relatives and none wanted any part of using it as a recreation area which it is now. For many years was owned by City of Atlanta and had planned to build a replacement airport for Hartsfield International but testing showed if they began disturbing too much soil it would become a Superfund site so it became a Wildlife Management area and people just don't talk about it much. They Geiger counter that belonged to my school at the time is still there as when my buddy and I turned it on it and everything else we had was left right where we stood as we left so quickly there was not time to gather our stuff for the research project we were doing for advanced physics class.
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Old March 29, 2018, 09:54   #5
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Thanks for the Info Ya'll

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Old March 29, 2018, 12:49   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunplumber View Post
I have one - former AZ CD. Just like the AN/PDR-27J. Couple radiacmeters (aka IM 93) and zeroing device (pp1578?). Kindof hard to test. Does pickup background. When I was NBC, had turn in my Americium 95 rod. Haven't tried it with Tritium. Have considered upgrading the headset.
I wonder if you could use a smoke detector as a source of radiation? Most of smoke detectors have a little bit of americium-241 in them as part of the detection circuit.
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Old March 29, 2018, 13:06   #7
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Here is a good review pro/con of the typical surplus CD units:
http://www.blackcatsystems.com/GM/cdv.html

Looks like some of the CD units aren't actually geiger counters, and none of them will pick up alpha particles.
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I have been called a gun crank.
That is an exaggeration.
I would say merely that I am more interested in fine shooting rifles than the average man.
I do not go in for collecting guns.
I never buy a gun unless I really need it.
As a matter of fact, I really only need about a dozen, or possibly fourteen, more guns than I have now.
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Old March 29, 2018, 14:43   #8
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Originally Posted by easttex View Post
I wonder if you could use a smoke detector as a source of radiation? Most of smoke detectors have a little bit of americium-241 in them as part of the detection circuit.
I did not know that. I will try it someday.
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Old March 29, 2018, 15:10   #9
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Looked in my boxes to confirm personal units at this time are a pair of old CD machines in good condition and a AN/PDR-27S RADIAC Geiger Counter which is the exact same machine as a HDER G-01 Geiger Counter Kit. Has an analog needle and an Eberline SK1 speaker kit and a set of headphones for audio feedback. I like the speaker but if were being discreet the headphones are necessary. Has a knob to turn on and off plus set to battery check (six D Cells) then can set on 0-500 mR/hr, 0-50 mR/hr, 0-5 mR/hr and 0-0.5 mR/hr.

Contacted my buddy via text as don't ask to many equations via his university email account and he works a fair way fromhome so keeps an apartment near work and goes home on weekends as works four 10 hour days per week. Below is the recommendation he made based on what he uses in the nuclear industry for a basic rad kit but is going to fill me in on different models, their advantages and disadvantages soon. Will post as he gives more information but since this was his first recommendation as what he uses by choice and can get anything he wants on dot gov or university money he has some high dollar machines, especially in the labs that handle radioactive materials, especially the physics labs going to post it on up.

Quote:
The old CD ones are rugged and reliable and reasonably accurate if serviced and calibrated by quality supplier but usually high range only. They would not be good at scanning for contamination, especially low to mid range. A good all around GM is a Ludlam Model 3 with a 44/7 probe. Only goes to 200 mR/hr on high range but if contamination levels exceed that doesn't really matter, your hosed. Retail on the Ludlum is about $800 but sure you can find them cheaper online or possibly a decent deal on Ebay.
Here is a page that gives a quick rundown of this model with all the different meter options and links to pages that tell you what each probes specs are and gives an idea of what can be done with them.

http://www.drct.com/dss/INSTRUMENTAT...um-Model-3.htm

I did find a myriad of Ludlam models on fleabay but only one with the 44-7 probe. Saw a lot of probes with the 44-3 and 44-7 probes more common. Prices varied from $99 (for parts only) to $720 and all price points in between. Believe am going to start shopping for a newer machine so have a more modern unit but way I shop is take a lot of time, find what appears to be a very decent unit that is mis-listed in wrong category, misspelled name of unit and low opening bid that I can snipe for low price, might have one next week or may take a year but have the two in hand to get me by till then.

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25,000 millirems per year level was the federal occupational limit during World War II and until about 1950 for radiation workers and soldiers exposed to radiation. The occupational limit became 15,000 millirems per year around 1950. In 1957, the occupational limit was lowered to a maximum of 5,000 millirems per year.
Average Natural Background: 300 Millirems

The average exposure in the United States, from natural sources of radiation (mostly cosmic radiation and radon), is 300 millirems per year at sea level. Radiation exposure is slightly higher at higher elevations-thus the exposure in Denver averages 400 millirems per year.

(A milliRem is 1/1000th of a Rem. According to McGraw-Hill's Dictionary of Scientific and Technical Terms, a Rem is a unit of ionizing radiation equal to the amount that produces the same damage to humans as one roentgen of high-voltage x-rays. The name is derived from "Roentgen equivalent man." Wilhelm Roentgen discovered ionizing radiation in 1895 at about the same time that Pierre and Marie Curie discovered radium.)

All of these limits are for the amount of radiation exposure in addition to background radiation and medical radiation.
Adult: 5,000 Millirems

The current federal occupational limit of exposure per year for an adult (the limit for a worker using radiation) is "as low as reasonably achievable; however, not to exceed 5,000 millirems" above the 300+ millirems of natural sources of radiation and any medical radiation. Radiation workers wear badges made of photographic film which indicate the exposure to radiation. Readings typically are taken monthly. A federal advisory committee recommends that the lifetime exposure be limited to a person's age multiplied by 1,000 millirems (example: for a 65-year-old person, 65,000 millirems).
Minor: 500 Millirems

The maximum permissible exposure for a person under 18 working with radiation is one-tenth the adult limit or not to exceed 500 millirems per year above the 300+ millirems of natural sources, plus medical radiation. This was established in 1957 and reviewed as recently as 1990.
Fetus: 500 Millirems Or 50 Per Month (New Rule Jan. 1, 1994)

New federal regulations went into effect New Year's Day, establishing for the first time an exposure limit for the embryo or fetus of a pregnant woman exposed to radiation at work. The limit for the gestation period is 500 millirems, with a recommendation that the exposure of a fetus be no more than 50 millirems per month.
Weight Variables

Like alcohol intoxication levels, levels of exposure to radioactivity (due to radioactivity deposited in the body) depend on a person's weight. A diagnostic tracer of one microcurie of radioactive calcium 45, given orally, would result in an exposure of 3.7 millirems for a 100-pound person, and half of that, 1.85 millirems, for a 200-pound person.
Therapeutic Radiation

Therapeutic radiation treatment that is delivered by administering radioactive material via the mouth or by injection usually results in high, very localized doses to a small part of the body, which absorbs most of the radioactivity. The radioactivity concentrates and remains in the target organ (for example, the thyroid) for a longer period of time than does the radioactivity that is distributed to the rest of the body. The radiation exposure for other parts of the body is a function of the amount of radioactivity per pound and the time the radioactivity is present in the tissue.
George Bush's Hyperthyroid Problem

For example, a hyperthyroid problem such as that experienced by former President George Bush is typically treated with a radioactive iodine drink designed to deliver about 10,000,000 millirems of radioactive iodine to the thyroid. It would coincidentally deliver a dose to the rest of the body of about 20,000 millirems. A slightly lower dose of radioactivity is used for cancerous tumors. Radiation to kill a cancerous tumor often involves a beam delivering 6,000,000 millirems to the cancerous tissue, but the whole-body equivalent dose is much less, as it was in the thyroid example cited above.

What is a lethal dose from a single instance of radiation? According to studies made after the atomic bomb explosions in 1945 at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, half of the people died whose entire bodies were exposed to 450,000 millirems of radiation from the atomic bomb. All persons died whose bodies were exposed to 600,000 millirems of radiation.
Federal Standards, Permissible Levels Of Radiation Exposure to Whole Body (1994 unless noted otherwise)

Millirems above natural background levels (average 300) and medical radiation:
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Old March 29, 2018, 20:03   #10
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I carry a Monitor 200 from SEI. This is a well made digital version with a GM detector. The price is around $450. I have covered the Dawson Forrest and determined that the whole area is safe enough for my dogs to run freely the entire place. Small and comes with a carry case. There are cheaper versions with analog displays but this one has a USB port to allow for PC reports to be generated. I personally recommend this one and I deal with 1.8 kW 45kV (monochromatic copper) to 4.0 kW 66kV (broad spectrum rhodium) x-ray generators on a daily basis.

https://seintl.com/radiationalert/monitor_200.html
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Old March 29, 2018, 22:49   #11
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Place in the river can swim under a concrete wall that was eroded over years as river bed moved. Do not swim under it if knew where to look and had not been rsealed about 20 years. Took us a lot of work to find it back in the day. Used color infrared photography to find hotter spots along with lots of interviews of former employees (about half were relatives) to find likely places to look closely. Afterwards was a lot of wandering the woods and exploring the river banks. Most of the dead animals buried there have rotted and water leached the worst of radiation deep but dad said when he worked there early 1950's burying hot stuff was a common practice.
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Old April 02, 2018, 13:44   #12
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While I have been combing fleabay and other sites for Geiger counters have run across a lot of other interesting stuff. Some I have but found newer generations that wre affordable and some that I didn't have and been learning and seeing which generation is minimum acceptable in price range I can afford.

I have a decent metal detector purchased for prospecting but before purchased it was using a U.S. Mine Detector as my primary metal detector then a hand wand followed my pencil size detector to actually pilfer through the dirt have dug up looking for whatever big machine hit on. Actually came across a post Gulf War era mine detector which I already have and found a later model that near as I can tell is just one generation off what is issued in Afghanistan now to look for mines and IED's at the squad/platoon level, not what the actual mine sweeping specialty teams use which can smell a firecracker from 100 feet even if not metal as sniffs for explosives as it sweeps for metals and other methods of detecting buried threats.

Looked at each of the previous listings and saw that was third time had been listed with opening bid dropped each time along with the buy now price being lowered. Guy never got a bid as had a typo in the word Mine an spelled it Mime. Miss the spelling of a key word in an ad and if have a low opening bid I will snipe it using bid nip at its opening price about three seconds before auction ends with just enough room for someone to have entered the exact minimum rounded up a buck ad Bidnip bump them a buck or two. Soon as his third auction ended without a bid and before he invested a listing fee sent him a message with an offer and he took it. Got the machine less than half price of what they sell for properly listed in similar condition.

I have radon gas, smoke detectors, natural gas, propane and carbon monoxide detectors in the house with the smoke heads and carbon monoxide tied to the primary alarm system. Had an old milspec chemical identification kit that is in a big box with all kinds of sealed cards, liquids, test tube looking things with what looks like the filter of a cigarette in them and other odd stuff that dates back to Bush 1's Gulf War. Found a kit that is basically the same size as an IFAK and in Digital ACU with seller saying was made in 2014 and has a 2018 expiration date. Showed a lot of pictures of instruction manual on using to detect poison gases, industrial chemicals, biological weapon residue, toxins and more. Price was fair, guy had two left so tapped him for both.

Realized the medical kits at work needed some resupply, every company truck has one of my IFAK's and one of my first aid kits in addition to the OSHA compliance first aid kit in each tool box. Why should the company trucks have my IFAK's and first aid kits? So began putting together a big fulfillment set of supplies and pouches to pull my kits out of the company trucks and let the company buy its own first aid materials. Was buying large lot of IFAK and medical resupply items from on vendor in Israel and nothing had expired dates plus Gen 7 tourniquets. On the buy now my entire thing which included a day-pack and fanny pack sized Multicam first aid kit and pair of IFAK's each empty, all the supplies and chemical kits totaled up to $554 and before hit check out sent him a make offer on each and every item that dropped my price to $449 with free shipping and he accepted. Now the trucks will have fresh company kits and my kits can go back in the personal pile. This thread is costing me money.
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