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Old June 09, 2018, 21:55   #51
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Most pilots shot down were caught or killed in the RVN/other areas, and escape and evasion training is a good tool to have in ones tool box, if ya have actually been through the training and are 25 years old.
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Old June 10, 2018, 17:56   #52
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Ain't gonna run, too freaking old. I have enough food and other stuff to last a while at home. Garden in the back yard so fresh veggies if SHTF during growing season. Once things die down, will then appraise the need for getting out of town and finding someplace in the country to settle down in.
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Old June 10, 2018, 18:22   #53
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Ain't gonna run, too freaking old. I have enough food and other stuff to last a while at home. Garden in the back yard so fresh veggies if SHTF during growing season. Once things die down, will then appraise the need for getting out of town and finding someplace in the country to settle down in.
And, I suspect, you'll make it through whatever happens just fine.
Older is very good in survival situations, young people tend to give up and die.
Most homes today have about three or four days of food stored in them, most older folks, have months worth of stored food stuff at home.
How many young gardeners are out and about today?
Being young, knowing how to operate a dumb phone, gun less, dial 911 for anything, are about hopeless and useless in bad times.
As the old guy once said, old guys just know a lot of shit.
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Old June 10, 2018, 19:04   #54
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Hard to push wife in wheel chair and she has stuck it out with me 26 years will stay with her. Besides without Bipap ASV I would likely die in my sleep and won't give neighbors anything that will defeat the homes armor. My entire house will stop 7.62×39 so that's a big deal and panic room will stop 300 Win Mag. Thing is need the neighbors to help plant and harvest crops. Have enough commercial fishing nets a good striped bass run would feed all for some time. Can also just find them with fish finder and drop depth charges and scoop up with net.

Plan to make myself more useful alive than dead to them. And like I said, anyone that wants to cross a double fence line with razor wire, 7,500 volt 5 amp top wire while being shot at can have me if get through tjen penetrate force rated doors. Have small panic room upstairs that is 7.62×51 protected and will have so many layears of improvised devices will take a couple dozen minimum to sacrifice themselves to clear a path if not shooting and the new AR 10 with binary trigger and bump fire is outright rude. Add seismic sensors, ground radar, electronic beams and cameras going to be hard to sneak onto the Ponderosa and now working on my first LIDAR system. That will be hard to bypass if get it running. Wife is good running bump fire and the Ruger AC556 plus doctors coming have both been through my introductory shooting and tactics course plus intermediate.

Some people will be better off to lone wolf but spent my life creating a safe zone with two backup safe areas to resettle if need arises. If bug out to anywhere beyond 20 minutes from house honestly can't think of safer place to be.
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Old June 10, 2018, 21:02   #55
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Hording food, ammo, weapons, a team of trusted friends, lots of medicine. And we are good to go.
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Old June 11, 2018, 11:25   #56
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Medicine and knowledge. I took EMT training and never worked a shift except the ride around's with Grady Memorial required to graduate. Did no continuing education and let ticket expire but took Wilderness First Responders course which kept license active almost 20 years. My guess is first two people to arrive at my home if SHTF will be a husband/wife doctor team. He is an internist by specialty but does research as trade. Wife is a head shrink and insisted on huge supply of mood leveling meds be stockpiled at my house as says if we get 6 to 12 people in my house which she says is max based on square footage and not go stir crazy will have to medicate some if not most especially if have to stay indoors and run in silent mode for more than a few weeks.

When I bought house at age 28 as remodeled used the ADA guidelines to make my house handicap friendly as is our forever home. Also purchased it based on quality of construction, brick exterior and added a lot of ballistic reinforcement while had drywall torn out and continued to make it more ballistic resistant over time. Added all the perimeter monitoring can afford and am prepared to turn perimeter into death zone. Four of the shooters hides are set up as wheelchair accessible in case world flips out after I am in wheelchair in my 80's with wife we can cover front and rear.

Also why now so intent on building 6.8, 5.56 and 22 Nosler poodle shooters. Unless shooting from rest it will be hard for people in their 80's to run full size battle rifles from wheelchairs. I am not going to roll over and die easily just because grow old. Every year try to make house stronger and leverage more technology to lift physical burden from survival like building network with younger people, learning to use drones to patrol and defend home, etc.

For the lone wolf bug out can just out maneuver the world by my wits suggest you never age as from 50 on every five years realize that there are more tasks that have become difficult or near impossible. I can see wife and I bugging out on our Hover-round electric scooters. I can see wife even in her late 80's to early 90's running her 5.7x28 AR's in single fire or bumpfire mode and laying some hurt on men in their 20's and 30's from wheelchair behind cover that will stop 338 Lapua.

As long as we are able to maneuver the house and have a pile of rifles with loaded magazines at each hide even if its just the two of us by time interlopers arrive and deal with my trap line, IED's, fence line and additional autonomous defense devices inside fence line they are going to hate it when the ol lady runs a 50 round mag dump of 5.7 on their @$$ unless she chooses to remove top of their skull with single shot if has the opportunity. Have spent my life watching people grow old and in correct circumstances they can be very independent if have prepared their homes and equipment for being old.

We do not know when the day society will collapse shall come and may be after I am dead and forgotten but whoever lives in my house will be in a good position as have a move in ready armored facility with active protection systems and reinforced shooting hides. As the Lone Wolf is running out of ammo and other supplies because only took what able to carry going to have to resupply somewhere and about only place to do so will be where small communities like mine have banded together for the good of the hood and interlopers will be shot before they get close enough to even know if homes are occupied.

Just assembled my third Lead Sled at house so if coming off back surgery or just a brittle old man and need to send a round from my 7mm Practical out toward the horizon won't break any of my old brittle bones. First time wife broke her hand opening a jar of jelly realized had to do major resupply of pistols for her to use without hurting herself. She has now learned to use a Lead Sled to shoot the M1a's from so if target is beyond her 5.56 AR or doesn't go down she can reposition and send a 30 caliber gift that keeps on giving. Tell us how your going to lone wolf across the countryside in 20 years... There is a reason old men seldom get sent off to war except as advisors and leaders.
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Old June 13, 2018, 18:25   #57
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The key to survival is being on a cruising yacht in Vanuatu with a dentist and plenty of antibiotics aboard. Leave the rice and MREs at home.
And how many dental assistants may I ask? That is the really important cargo.

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Old June 15, 2018, 14:53   #58
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bullshit. entire article is bullshit.

post-world? everybody in walking distance ot the zombie-land of urban America is dead within weeks. people trying to escape in their "beamers" are dead even faster as soon asthey hit the hills. lots of anger out there in them thar hills, so if the rules are no longer the rules, people ain't gonna be nice to people that have been less than nice to them.

looking forward to it, in a way.
already in the hills.
one of them that ain't gonna be nice.
In 2 months 95% of the population will have starved to death in a continental scale SHTF.

All these wandering bands of road warrior stuff is crap. In a total collapse only substantial enclaves of people in rural areas with the ability to grown their own food/livestocks and defend the territory will survive. everyone else just starves to death.

Lucifer's Hammer is the realistic novel on this. The group in the valley survives and everyone else basically dies.
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Old June 15, 2018, 15:51   #59
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In 2 months 95% of the population will have starved to death in a continental scale SHTF.

All these wandering bands of road warrior stuff is crap. In a total collapse only substantial enclaves of people in rural areas with the ability to grown their own food/livestocks and defend the territory will survive. everyone else just starves to death.

Lucifer's Hammer is the realistic novel on this. The group in the valley survives and everyone else basically dies.
Concur. All the gangs now? Wait till they face unrestricted use of force at the hand of the public. Seen it in LA in `92, acted real tough during the riots till they found out I would kill them at my own discretion without hesitation and face no legal retribution for it.
Everybody's behavior changed real fast after that.
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Old June 16, 2018, 11:06   #60
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Concur. All the gangs now? Wait till they face unrestricted use of force at the hand of the public. Seen it in LA in `92, acted real tough during the riots till they found out I would kill them at my own discretion without hesitation and face no legal retribution for it.
Everybody's behavior changed real fast after that.
Isn't that why they send their members to get training on the US army and combat experience in Iraq and Afghanistan?
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Old June 17, 2018, 09:47   #61
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Isn't that why they send their members to get training on the US army and combat experience in Iraq and Afghanistan?
I've heard of this and it's likely there's evidence of it although I don't know when that started.

I do know what I experienced in LA in `92 and in several experiences since then have seen the same in other groups and those other groups were trained.

I don't by any means fancy myself a tough-guy or a bad-ass, I am a deliberate-minded individual & those kinds of people are not and that is the difference.

It means one simple thing, they'll engage in violence only when they figure they can get away with it, it is the cowardice of bullies deep down.
And the important thing being, it's not about the violence, that's not what matters. What matters is, how far are you willing to take things?
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Old June 17, 2018, 15:49   #62
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I've heard of this and it's likely there's evidence of it although I don't know when that started.

I do know what I experienced in LA in `92 and in several experiences since then have seen the same in other groups and those other groups were trained.

I don't by any means fancy myself a tough-guy or a bad-ass, I am a deliberate-minded individual & those kinds of people are not and that is the difference.

It means one simple thing, they'll engage in violence only when they figure they can get away with it, it is the cowardice of bullies deep down.
And the important thing being, it's not about the violence, that's not what matters. What matters is, how far are you willing to take things?
Gangs have many advantages over "normal" people in times of turmoil.
They know the territory.
They are not concerned about laws, any laws, nor innocents getting caught in a cross fire.
And many of them have actually killed other humans before, vs most people that have not.
Gang members are used to sudden death, open warfare, killing without hesitation.
And they are organized with people they can count upon when things go bad.

Kinda like most Army Airborne units?????
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Old June 17, 2018, 17:04   #63
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It's all relative...

....To a lot of things. Do I know how to fight? Yes. Can I defend? Yes. Do I know my shit? Yes.

.....can I go hand to hand with 2-3 well trained 25-30 year old guys? I might get one and wound another but the cold hard facts are at 60 I ain't as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I ever was.

I had my young nephew call me up a few years back and ask "hey uncle, dad and I are working on our bug out bags, wanna come down and work on yours?" He almost shit when I told him I didn't have one and asked why. I told him "son I love you but I'm 5x years old, I built this place, paid for it, and I'm dying right effing here but I'm happy to cover you and your family when/if you run".

I still feel the same. Small town, small county, come try to take our shit -- you may very well succeed, but there's going to be a terrible cost involved. Us old boys have been hunting here for 50 plus years and know every nook, cranny, stream, ingress and egress point for 25 miles so bring it on, I can't think of a better way to die. Eyes aren't good for over about 600 yards but that fine.

As far as knives, I've seen some discussion and I'll stick with my Randall knives I've had for a few years.

There's some reality......

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Old June 17, 2018, 17:43   #64
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Gangs have many advantages over "normal" people in times of turmoil.
They know the territory.
They are not concerned about laws, any laws, nor innocents getting caught in a cross fire.
And many of them have actually killed other humans before, vs most people that have not.
Gang members are used to sudden death, open warfare, killing without hesitation.
And they are organized with people they can count upon when things go bad.

Kinda like most Army Airborne units?????
street gangs & Army Airborne?

the two are so far apart they're not even in the same universe...

Add edit: as for "the law" or concern for the law, even cops are restricted somewhat via the law in regards to what street gangs currently face. Far more so is the public. Gangs have a real degree of latitude under the current state of the law.
Remove those restrictions from the public and watch what happens, if you havn't seen that up front and personal, I speak from personal experience.

People want something to worry about grid down? Worry about the human mental kamikazi acting out of envy, not jealousy or material gain, they are the most dangerous.
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Old June 17, 2018, 18:47   #65
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street gangs & Army Airborne?

the two are so far apart they're not even in the same universe...


Add edit: as for "the law" or concern for the law, even cops are restricted somewhat via the law in regards to what street gangs currently face. Far more so is the public. Gangs have a real degree of latitude under the current state of the law.
Remove those restrictions from the public and watch what happens, if you havn't seen that up front and personal, I speak from personal experience.

People want something to worry about grid down? Worry about the human mental kamikazi acting out of envy, not jealousy or material gain, they are the most dangerous.
In all my many years of service in Army Airborne units, class of 68, the two groups sure do seem to have many of the same attributes, if not many of the same members from time to time.

I would not and have not, underestimated the sheer power and capabilities of a possible enemy facing me, that being organized street gangs.
They have money, weapons, and organizational skills to near fully outwit the vast law enforcement efforts thrown at them, so far.

Discount these people at your own potential peril.
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Old June 18, 2018, 15:36   #66
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In all my many years of service in Army Airborne units, class of 68, the two groups sure do seem to have many of the same attributes, if not many of the same members from time to time.

I would not and have not, underestimated the sheer power and capabilities of a possible enemy facing me, that being organized street gangs.
They have money, weapons, and organizational skills to near fully outwit the vast law enforcement efforts thrown at them, so far.

Discount these people at your own potential peril.
Disagree entirely.
the same attributes? Army airborne would be prosecuted under the UCMJ and likely the geneva convention.

To save myself 5+ pages of typing, it comes down to two single things...bonafide self-discipline. Army airborne has it, these gangs don't...

Logistics, Army airborne has it, these gangs don't...

We go fully grid down, there'll be a period of violence and a lot of shit humans will run rampant amongst the unwary for a while. It won't take long for that to change.

The mental kamikazi's such as that BLM shithead in Dallas that took down 5 cops, there's an example of the kind that worry me.
Give his kind fire as a weapon in a grid down scenario, be prepared.....
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Old June 18, 2018, 19:57   #67
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Disagree entirely.
the same attributes? Army airborne would be prosecuted under the UCMJ and likely the geneva convention.

To save myself 5+ pages of typing, it comes down to two single things...bonafide self-discipline. Army airborne has it, these gangs don't...

Logistics, Army airborne has it, these gangs don't...

We go fully grid down, there'll be a period of violence and a lot of shit humans will run rampant amongst the unwary for a while. It won't take long for that to change.

The mental kamikazi's such as that BLM shithead in Dallas that took down 5 cops, there's an example of the kind that worry me.
Give his kind fire as a weapon in a grid down scenario, be prepared.....
Will, I was somewhat joking!!!!

I'm of the airborne class of 68, were you from a later yr group of former Airborne soldiers???

Did you serve on Active duty as an Airborne soldier????

Maybe that's the disconnect here, in that in my many years of Airborne service, we had some really rough ass members, and I'm more than sure, even a few, more than a few actually, former street gang banger's.
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Old June 18, 2018, 21:24   #68
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Will, I was somewhat joking!!!!

I'm of the airborne class of 68, were you from a later yr group of former Airborne soldiers???

Did you serve on Active duty as an Airborne soldier????

Maybe that's the disconnect here, in that in my many years of Airborne service, we had some really rough ass members, and I'm more than sure, even a few, more than a few actually, former street gang banger's.
No, I'm ex-navy, so you should understand how it pains me to speak of army in such terms.

Regardless, it is the truth of army airborne and what they are. Disciplined enough where their primary mission is to go willingly into a fight where they are surrounded and out-numbered.

That is a far cry from the drive-by shootings, home invasions, etc, such as the gangs engage in.

This doesn't mean I consider gangs or such no threat at all, given opportunity their behavior under such circumstances will be best described as inhuman.
however they have yet to face the public under the circumstances I noted, and that is an entirely different situation.
Think about the VC you faced and their network, now apply some of that here....
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Old June 18, 2018, 21:43   #69
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Not serving in the military may be of great help when it all goes south, you don't have to fight by logistics. You pick the time and place of your battle and depend only on yourself. Take it to them or back off will be your own decision and not under the orders of someone else. Ya as an old man my clock would get cleaned but I have walked the planet without man's help so no sense looking for it this late in life.
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Old June 19, 2018, 00:46   #70
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No, I'm ex-navy, so you should understand how it pains me to speak of army in such terms.

Regardless, it is the truth of army airborne and what they are. Disciplined enough where their primary mission is to go willingly into a fight where they are surrounded and out-numbered.

That is a far cry from the drive-by shootings, home invasions, etc, such as the gangs engage in.

This doesn't mean I consider gangs or such no threat at all, given opportunity their behavior under such circumstances will be best described as inhuman.
however they have yet to face the public under the circumstances I noted, and that is an entirely different situation.
Think about the VC you faced and their network, now apply some of that here....


Go Navy, no really, please go, go right now, sail away, don;t come back!!!!!!!

All Airborne units worldwide are kinda crazy, takes a special kind of crazy just to be a member.

Airborne operations are always nuts, high injuries rates, high death rates, and many countries take a rather dim view on Airborne POW's.

You need people that can handle fighting on a 360 degree battle field, with little to no support.

If you don;t take it out the door, you ain't going to have it on the ground.

It just takes a special kind of stupid to be in an Airborne unit, any country, any time.

Airborne units ain;t never been made up of saints.
Will just leave it at that.
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Old June 19, 2018, 22:52   #71
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street gangs & Army Airborne?

the two are so far apart they're not even in the same universe...

Add edit: as for "the law" or concern for the law, even cops are restricted somewhat via the law in regards to what street gangs currently face. Far more so is the public. Gangs have a real degree of latitude under the current state of the law.
Remove those restrictions from the public and watch what happens, if you havn't seen that up front and personal, I speak from personal experience.

People want something to worry about grid down? Worry about the human mental kamikazi acting out of envy, not jealousy or material gain, they are the most dangerous.
Most gangs are made up of a bunch of pussy teens with a few dead eyed vacant types, and then as you go up the ranks the numbers of truly dangerous older guys are smaller and smaller where you find real killers and heavy hitters. They will starve to death before they can gain much traction. Nobody is loyal when they're starving to death.

The average 'gang' would be mowed down by a typical subdivision with only a few good riflemen defending it, and would quickly beat a retreat.

In the cities - yep, look out. They're gonna take it over right quick if no military is sent to control it.
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Old June 20, 2018, 10:55   #72
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Avoid, avoid, avoid... then focus on basics for survival. Most preppers are too focused on fighting, which should be avoided if at all possible. Even the most ill-trained idiot can get lucky, and you lose. Being a hardened target only helps until all the low hanging fruit has been picked then desperate people reach farther up the tree.

When it comes to complete nationwide societal breakdown... If you do not have somewhere to bug out too then don't because all the rural people I know plan on shooting everyone they do not know. If you do not know the people who live around your bug out location then don't because all the rural people I know plan on shooting everyone they do not know. If the ball has already gone up, then all the rural people on the way there plan on shooting everyone they do not know.

You need to be where you need to be before things get ugly. If not you may find someone else already owns your bug out location as possession is everything when there is no law. You need to have become part of the community and be thought of as descent, trustworthy, and reliable before everything breaks down because my rural relations all have a list in their head of those they think may/will cause trouble and will possibly take care of it proactively. So basically stay away from people until a polite, well armed, self-sufficient society takes hold again. Until then you need to be with dependable people who can cover each other work load wise.

Do not have too much single use redundant gear stuff as what you need to ensure you eat, have sanitation, and have shelter is more important. OpSec is important. No one needs to know how much stuff you have or where it is outside of very trusted people. As much salt as you can stash for preserving food is more important than a fighting knife or yet another spare rifle or gold. Medicine is second on my list. Tools to work a garden, maintain buildings, etc. Stuff to live life without electric for the rest of your life. You may also not want to heat or light your place until things settle down. Make sure you don't freeze in the meantime. Knowledge to use the stuff you squirreled away. Have enough land to scatter the stuff you have so you can afford to walk away from a position and live another day. Five garden plots fenced and scattered around your property beats one big obvious one. Never go outside without a long gun. Chose one that can serve as both a hunting and fighting arm.

Make sure anyone that you have invited knows that they are not allowed to bring anyone else with them that you have not invited regardless of the circumstances. Also that they are not to tell people where they are going and what is waiting there.

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Old June 20, 2018, 16:08   #73
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Avoid, avoid, avoid...
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Yepper!!!!!
One does not need to worry about a gun shot, if one is not gun shot in the first place!
Avoid, hide, avoid, hide, avoid all people if at all possible.
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Old June 21, 2018, 04:38   #74
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Deception is a good way to stay alive, that's for damn sure!!!!!

People today, that can't get along with others, on damn near any level, that profess to WANT to be alone in all matters, when the lights go out, well, that time will not be the time to learn how to be around others, work for a common cause.

Sending an innocent appearing good looking little gal out to "meet" new people, heavily covered by decent riflemen in good concealment and cover, should tell you pretty quickly, the intentions and decency of any newcomers that you come across.

If they treat the young lady, as a commodity, to be used and abused, just kill them all, then collect their gear.

I am Not deceptive with those I am close to, they know Much about me, others, Not a damn thing really. I like it that way.
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Old June 21, 2018, 10:32   #75
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Decency? Bait a trap with a hot woman so you can kill folks for their stuff, no thanks, I would rather meet god without murder on my hands. Just coming up with the plan shows how indecent folks are and not people I would live with.
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Old June 21, 2018, 10:58   #76
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Most gangs are made up of a bunch of pussy teens with a few dead eyed vacant types, and then as you go up the ranks the numbers of truly dangerous older guys are smaller and smaller where you find real killers and heavy hitters. They will starve to death before they can gain much traction. Nobody is loyal when they're starving to death.

The average 'gang' would be mowed down by a typical subdivision with only a few good riflemen defending it, and would quickly beat a retreat.

In the cities - yep, look out. They're gonna take it over right quick if no military is sent to control it.
In the circumstances being discussed, genuine anarchy (absence of government, not absence of natural law):

In the blue areas, the gangs will likely take over until disease takes them over.

In flyover country, non white with ink of any kind will likely be a literal immediate death sentence.

it is a simple truth, in the discussed circumstances, one's skin color will be part of the uniform or determining factor as to what side that person is likely on. Gang appearing ink of any sort will likely be shot on sight.

Yarro is correct, logistics should be a major priority. Far more so than the "buy more guns, buy more ammo, can't wait for the shooting to start!" mentality. Lack of logistics will get more people killed than most anything else.
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Old June 21, 2018, 11:29   #77
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In the circumstances being discussed, genuine anarchy (absence of government, not absence of natural law):

In the blue areas, the gangs will likely take over until disease takes them over.

In flyover country, non white with ink of any kind will likely be a literal immediate death sentence.

it is a simple truth, in the discussed circumstances, one's skin color will be part of the uniform or determining factor as to what side that person is likely on. Gang appearing ink of any sort will likely be shot on sight.

Yarro is correct, logistics should be a major priority. Far more so than the "buy more guns, buy more ammo, can't wait for the shooting to start!" mentality. Lack of logistics will get more people killed than most anything else.
Logistics may get you killed too, that pile of goods is what the weak will want bad enough to kill for. If you don't share then you get burnt out, stick built homes don't last well with fire. In a full balls out action fires will kill one hell of a lot of people and what hasn't been burnt will be the focus of who is left.

I worked outside most of my life plus I hunted and fished and explored the outdoors. If there is food out there I can find it in the areas I have been. Know which mushrooms you can eat, plants, can you trap a squirrel with wire, can you fish using what you find on the stream bottoms? Living off what God provides won't work in a herd, the logistics run out and then folks turn to murder to get more.

Water alone will be a big killer, there are things in water you can't boil out and heat makes it more toxic, know what it looks like? Most folks never dress for the outdoors and hypothermia will kill them. People can't shit in the woods without passing disease. People can't walk in the woods without leaving a trail. I don't plan to hit the woods until my logistics are expended but by then it will be quiet in the woods again.

Watching folks will be the key in the beginning, see who the murderers are. Then decide if you want to stop it.
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Old June 21, 2018, 14:59   #78
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I am Not deceptive with those I am close to, they know Much about me, others, Not a damn thing really. I like it that way.
Which is why I like you, open, honest, and friend to one and all, unless some worthless ass tries to do harm to you and yours.

Little Bawana Jim here, has once again taken offense at my use of the term deception, as to quickly determine the intent of people just met.

As normal, he gets its backwards;

The goal of deception, in this case is not to murder people, it is designed to easily determine if the new people coming up to you are decent or non decent.

Non decent people will murder you and yours.
Decent people will not.

Shoot non decent people in a WROL, before they shoot you and yours.

Survival ain;t for the faint of heart folks.
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Old June 22, 2018, 10:25   #79
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Logistics may get you killed too, that pile of goods is what the weak will want bad enough to kill for. If you don't share then you get burnt out, stick built homes don't last well with fire. In a full balls out action fires will kill one hell of a lot of people and what hasn't been burnt will be the focus of who is left.
it is why what I said in post #66, be prepared.

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I worked outside most of my life plus I hunted and fished and explored the outdoors. If there is food out there I can find it in the areas I have been. Know which mushrooms you can eat, plants, can you trap a squirrel with wire, can you fish using what you find on the stream bottoms? Living off what God provides won't work in a herd, the logistics run out and then folks turn to murder to get more.

Water alone will be a big killer, there are things in water you can't boil out and heat makes it more toxic, know what it looks like? Most folks never dress for the outdoors and hypothermia will kill them. People can't shit in the woods without passing disease. People can't walk in the woods without leaving a trail. I don't plan to hit the woods until my logistics are expended but by then it will be quiet in the woods again.

Watching folks will be the key in the beginning, see who the murderers are. Then decide if you want to stop it.
I'm not sure what your point is?

One thing is certain, without the logistical ability of self-sustainment, which includes the disease prevention abilities of sanitation & also the ability to gather intelligence to avoid or win a fight or defensive action, an individual is almost certain to die.
Have a gun, know how to use it, have what you need to sustain it, and be mentally able to use it. Thats a good start towards worrying about people attempting to take what you have.



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Water alone will be a big killer, there are things in water you can't boil out and heat makes it more toxic, know what it looks like?
Are you talking about chloramines?
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Old June 22, 2018, 10:50   #80
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Decency? Bait a trap with a hot woman so you can kill folks for their stuff, no thanks, I would rather meet god without murder on my hands. Just coming up with the plan shows how indecent folks are and not people I would live with.
You must have not read the old testimony recently
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Old June 22, 2018, 11:59   #81
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You must have not read the old testimony recently
I live by the New Testimony
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Old June 22, 2018, 12:26   #82
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it is why what I said in post #66, be prepared.



I'm not sure what your point is?

One thing is certain, without the logistical ability of self-sustainment, which includes the disease prevention abilities of sanitation & also the ability to gather intelligence to avoid or win a fight or defensive action, an individual is almost certain to die.
Have a gun, know how to use it, have what you need to sustain it, and be mentally able to use it. Thats a good start towards worrying about people attempting to take what you have.





Are you talking about chloramines?
My point is I believe it takes far more than folks think to survive a collapse. While living and surviving is the goal it's not the most important thing because you are going to die. It may be a test of what you are willing to do to hang on to life that the answer you give keeps you from an after life.

Survival is going to be more than pulling a trigger but that's my opinion and folks don't see the world as I do. I lived outdoors most of my life and see all god has to offer in staying alive. I have seen the dangers of living outdoors and what kills people. To see all those things you have to live where God offers the most, logistics will run out, what then?

Of course people are the biggest danger, they will murder folks and eat them. That's the logistics you are up against, about three weeks into an event and your neighbors will be looking to you not for food but as food. The madness the world would go into won't have any civility left, not even table manners.
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Old June 22, 2018, 13:37   #83
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I live by the New Testimony
You missed a few sections!
Just saying
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Old June 22, 2018, 17:47   #84
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My point is I believe it takes far more than folks think to survive a collapse. While living and surviving is the goal it's not the most important thing because you are going to die. It may be a test of what you are willing to do to hang on to life that the answer you give keeps you from an after life.

Survival is going to be more than pulling a trigger but that's my opinion and folks don't see the world as I do. I lived outdoors most of my life and see all god has to offer in staying alive. I have seen the dangers of living outdoors and what kills people. To see all those things you have to live where God offers the most, logistics will run out, what then?

Of course people are the biggest danger, they will murder folks and eat them. That's the logistics you are up against, about three weeks into an event and your neighbors will be looking to you not for food but as food. The madness the world would go into won't have any civility left, not even table manners.
Fair enough however I would really like an answer to my question.

What is it in water you claim can't be boiled out and becomes more toxic when heated?
This is something to know about as boiling is a grid-down purification method.
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Old June 22, 2018, 19:23   #85
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Fair enough however I would really like an answer to my question.

What is it in water you claim can't be boiled out and becomes more toxic when heated?
This is something to know about as boiling is a grid-down purification method.
Adding bleach, running thru a filter and then boiling for a while kills or eliminates everything I know of in water too!

Using all three above, is most likely well into overkill.

Add in, people can get used to local issues with water, after a while, the Mexicans do just fine with their water it seems, just not gringos so much.
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Old June 22, 2018, 20:03   #86
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Fair enough however I would really like an answer to my question.

What is it in water you claim can't be boiled out and becomes more toxic when heated?
This is something to know about as boiling is a grid-down purification method.
Alge and boiling the water makes it more toxic. Salem Oregon was recently under a water emergency due to Alge in its water system.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algal_bloom

Cynotoxins.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=cyanot...FORM=QBLH&sp=1
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Old June 22, 2018, 20:57   #87
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Alge and boiling the water makes it more toxic. Salem Oregon was recently under a water emergency due to Alge in its water system.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algal_bloom

Cynotoxins.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=cyanot...FORM=QBLH&sp=1

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Old June 22, 2018, 22:44   #88
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Hmm, Somebody actually likes me, and I just got my asshole merit badge.

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Which is why I like you, open, honest, and friend to one and all, unless some worthless ass tries to do harm to you and yours.

Little Bawana Jim here, has once again taken offense at my use of the term deception, as to quickly determine the intent of people just met.

As normal, he gets its backwards;

The goal of deception, in this case is not to murder people, it is designed to easily determine if the new people coming up to you are decent or non decent.

Non decent people will murder you and yours.
Decent people will not.

Shoot non decent people in a WROL, before they shoot you and yours.

Survival ain;t for the faint of heart folks.
I like you too Brother, I guess that is why we are both welcome at the others place and similar thinkers.
And BJ, He is Ok, some times we all just put up with each other as FAL Brothers.
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Old June 22, 2018, 23:48   #89
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Angry

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I like you too Brother, I guess that is why we are both welcome at the others place and similar thinkers.
And BJ, He is Ok, some times we all just put up with each other as FAL Brothers.
I actually like the guy 95% of the time, but he's got it in his mind, them other Jewish folks plan to destroy the whole world if faced with extinction, even though I've told him 5 dozen times it was a bluff started to ward off attacks by them other people back in the sixties by Moshe Dayan.

It was a damn effective bluff too, BJ still believes in it with all his heart 50 plus years later.

You be welcomed at my fire anytime.

BJ too, but got to admit, would sleep with one eye opened for a while with BJ around, he is Catholic ya know!!!!
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Old June 23, 2018, 09:28   #90
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don't overlook the obvious.

I was wracking my gourd thinking poor end flushing or chloramines, something along those lines.

algae covered water? Rather than using that, I'd backtrack to find the source and pull from the source. Likely it's moving water and much easier to make safely drinkable.
If it's a seep that means there's likely more water in the area, go find a better source.
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Old June 23, 2018, 09:31   #91
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Water filtered through a 0.2um filter is considered sterile.
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Old June 23, 2018, 09:45   #92
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don't overlook the obvious.

I was wracking my gourd thinking poor end flushing or chloramines, something along those lines.

algae covered water? Rather than using that, I'd backtrack to find the source and pull from the source. Likely it's moving water and much easier to make safely drinkable.
If it's a seep that means there's likely more water in the area, go find a better source.
Here in oregun we have many lakes on the high desert. Times of the year it gets so hot the alge bloom will fill the lakes and kill all the fish. Toxin is dangerous to people too. The fish kill in one year was over 90,000 in eastern oregun. If you were on the run in hot weather the water can kill you.

The alge that Salem was from far up the river at Detroit resivior. Once the alge bloomed in moved downstream in fast water and got into Salems water system. Looking at the river you would never know it's polluted until you look really close.

Three things here in a survival situation, have clean water stored for drinking. Have a rain water collection system and know where the water is comming from. Dead things in water will give you disease but ameba will make you die too
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Old June 23, 2018, 10:15   #93
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I like you too Brother, I guess that is why we are both welcome at the others place and similar thinkers.
And BJ, He is Ok, some times we all just put up with each other as FAL Brothers.
I wouldn't know what he says if you guys didn't quote him. If he was smart he would put me on ignore too. He really doesn't need to know a thing I post.
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Old June 23, 2018, 16:50   #94
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I wouldn't know what he says if you guys didn't quote him. If he was smart he would put me on ignore too. He really doesn't need to know a thing I post.
Naw, I like ya 95% of the time, maybe even more most days.
Stubborn is a good trait in a man, even when he is dead wrong.
Besides, as you say, its the Christian thing to do, forgiveness and all.
Even a little understanding of others from time to time is not a bad thing.

Me speaking to Bawana Jim is like speaking to the perfect wife!
You can say anything you like, whenever you like, on any damned subject under the sun, and they just keep their mouth shut.
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Old June 24, 2018, 11:48   #95
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As long as we are able to maneuver the house
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Old June 28, 2018, 20:47   #96
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Here in oregun we have many lakes on the high desert. Times of the year it gets so hot the alge bloom will fill the lakes and kill all the fish. Toxin is dangerous to people too. The fish kill in one year was over 90,000 in eastern oregun. If you were on the run in hot weather the water can kill you.

The alge that Salem was from far up the river at Detroit resivior. Once the alge bloomed in moved downstream in fast water and got into Salems water system. Looking at the river you would never know it's polluted until you look really close.

Three things here in a survival situation, have clean water stored for drinking. Have a rain water collection system and know where the water is comming from. Dead things in water will give you disease but ameba will make you die too
clean or safe water will be one of the things which levels the playing field.
Right now the gangs have one major advantage over the average individual, time. Time is the advantage they carry.
Most of our time is spent earning a living, family responsibilities, etc.
We don't have the free time on the same scale as the criminals.
They right now can use an EBT card, turn the faucet on, etc.
When it's down to having to provide for ones own safely usable water, they will have to do the same, or pay the consequences. Raiding will not provide them with enough water to do so.
I did my normal PT yesterday, even with 3/4 gallon of water in me 45 minutes before I hit the road, I still dehydrated and ran into the onset of heat exhaustion, it was just under 100 degrees and the heat index was 105+
They're coming out here to raid, they will face the same and they'll need the water to continue to function and that's one of the things they'll have to spend time on.
Right now it's easy for their kind as normal utilities are functioning, those go down and they'll have to do that on their own, which takes time.
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Old June 28, 2018, 22:34   #97
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Around here we have more water than average yet the water in most cases can kill you with Guardia or ameobic dysentery and that's before dead things start filling the streams and rivers. Can't imagine how folks in dry areas will live. Winter is a different story here, so much water it floods in my area.

Forage for clean water depends on how fast the event goes down and what the population does as it runs out of food.
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Old June 29, 2018, 22:05   #98
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I was reading a report out of Yuma Arizona that said EcolI that hurt a bunch of folks came from irrigation from water source. Seems people even got EcolI from people who were infected.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3667159/posts
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