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Old March 16, 2017, 10:32   #1
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Foundation for "barn" aka hay shed

I have a 12x12 hay shed. It's sitting on those concrete trapezoidal pedestals.

Two things have happened which motivate me to change some stuff.

First, I have brought in a lot of dirt and leveled the arena, so what was above flood level 15 years ago is now about 12" below. I have good water flow around it so it hasn't flooded yet, but I want to bring that end of the arena up another foot to make it level all the way across.

My dogs have dug under and around it with such ghusto (despite my dumping bags of concrete and rocks/blocks into their holes) that the pedestals are no longer sound.

My plan is to (empty it first!) use a combination of lifting with a front end loader, sliding, dragging & rollers to temporarily move it forward about 40'. Then put in a real foundation, then fill the area to level with the surrounding stalls and arena, then drag the barn back on top.

My plan is to build a deep footing with cinderblock first at 2 blocks below current ground level. then raise it 2 blocks (need minimum 18" from current ). Then back fill the whole area, covering the cinderblock. This should keep the dogs from digging under. I'll leave the dirt inside of the cinderblock 4" below flush, then pour a concrete slab into this.

Am I misguided so far? A manufactured home up the street burned down and when they replaced it with a stick-built, they raised the foundation in this manner (previously was on jacks).

Next is my motivation for the question. I am reading about problems with moisture between the slab and the wood floor of the shed. The floorboards are nailed to 2x4 pressure treated boards which are currently just sitting on the pedestals. Do I need to do something between the slab and the underside of the floor? Just plop it down as is?

I built this myself from scratch about 12 years and it cost me about $2000 in material and a weekend of work. I think it would be impractical to try to make any major changes to the underside. The walls are cement board. I expect some cracking during the move, but I figure if I run some diagonal braces across the door frame, it should be mitigated. The floor is two layers of (3/4"?) weather-treated marine plywood.

The other option I'm considering is to make the slab 16x16 so I have 2' of slab all around the outside. But if I do it that way, there would be nothing under the 4" slab that the barn is sitting on - the footing would be 2' further out in each direction. Is this a problem? Should I do a second square of solid-filled cinder block under where the walls will be? The shed itself isn't particularly heavy - I've dragged similar ones with a truck. But when I have 3 tons of hay in it, it can be.





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Last edited by gunplumber; March 17, 2017 at 11:51. Reason: corrected dimensions.
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Old March 16, 2017, 11:11   #2
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Why would someone like you who knows everything need help with something
this simple.
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Old March 16, 2017, 11:41   #3
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Why would someone like you who knows everything need help with something
this simple.
Alluvial subsidence is a little known science among the general population.
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Old March 16, 2017, 11:47   #4
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Alluvial subsidence is a little known science.
More like SCBM.

Subsidence caused by mutts.
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Old March 16, 2017, 11:54   #5
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More like SCBM.

Subsidence caused by mutts.
Hardpan is the extent of their curiosity.
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Old March 16, 2017, 12:06   #6
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Once you have filled the site up to the grade you want, consider just excavating a footing trench all around the perimeter, ( 2' wider than the barn), and then pour the slab and footing at the same time.

Throw junk steel into the footing for reinforcement, if you have any scrap.

Push the barn back onto the new slab. Anchor the barn to the new slab thru the wall bottom plates, with screw anchors.

Carpenters working with mason contractors do this all the time. when they pour a cellar, walls, footing, and cellar floor all at once, 9 feet tall.
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Old March 16, 2017, 14:28   #7
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Why would someone like you who knows everything need help with something
this simple.
Go f-ck yourself, loser.
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Old March 16, 2017, 19:16   #8
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Once you have filled the site up to the grade you want, consider just excavating a footing trench all around the perimeter, ( 2' wider than the barn), and then pour the slab and footing at the same time.

Throw junk steel into the footing for reinforcement, if you have any scrap.

Push the barn back onto the new slab. Anchor the barn to the new slab thru the wall bottom plates, with screw anchors.

Carpenters working with mason contractors do this all the time. when they pour a cellar, walls, footing, and cellar floor all at once, 9 feet tall.
This ^^^^
Good luck.
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Old March 16, 2017, 20:09   #9
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An 18" rise is about your frost depth I expect in Arizona so you wouldn't have to dig much or at all to raise the floor 18". Then make your holes sound with compacted crushed rock instead of large loose rock.

Footings are wider than the foundation wall say 18" wide with 6" foundation wall(not practiced with block and don't trust it.

I think what you want is a slab foundation instead. They are a slab, say 22x22 that might be 6" deep in the main area and slopes to a deeper depth(say an 18" frost depth at the edges and 45 degree angle to deepen the slab to full depth 4-6" inside your wall's inside edge. 4" crushed under the slab and 6-sack mix would be pretty stout and drivable.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...F4&FORM=IQFRBA

Slab foundations are quick and easy if you can get a ready mix truck to pour it there for you. You need to have your "ducks in a row" before hand and know how you anchor your building. If you are going to be dragging the building back onto the slab you'll be left with drilling the concrete later. Maybe there's a threaded insert you can stick in the concrete as you place it. You'd need to have the exact locations figured out in advance.

I converted my dad's horse barn floor to slabs and the better mix (6 sack or what ever) has never cracked in 30 years. We just kept it moist for several days. The better mix was easier for amateurs to finish too.

If you had to get a permit they would help you with minimum depths. I wouldn't go under 4" of crushed and 4" standard concrete mix in the main area. The frost depth comes into play for permitted buildings like houses. The link shows how the conduits and plumbing and stuff are all planned and laid out in advance.

I'm not sure how you'd do the diagonal bracing. One diagonal is easy say 2x6 top left to bottom right. Next one top right to bottom left with some blocking to miss the first? Or cut the second to butt against the first. I've been watching tiny house building videos and they have been using metal strapping but it would make a lot of holes in your walls. Brace it well enough and you might need to paint if afterward.

Last edited by gordonm1; March 16, 2017 at 20:43. Reason: add last couple paragraphs
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Old March 16, 2017, 20:55   #10
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For the "moisture between slab" part- read up on vapor barrier ( plastic sheeting ). Requirements vary from where I'm at to where you're at but a quick search should tell you what you need to know.
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Old March 16, 2017, 21:10   #11
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For the "moisture between slab" part- read up on vapor barrier ( plastic sheeting ). Requirements vary from where I'm at to where you're at but a quick search should tell you what you need to know.
I was thinking the same thing, but I would cut the floor out and use the concrete base. How he's going to anchor the sides is another issue because he would have the weight to hold it down if the winds kicked up. I'd anchor the walls into the foundation and proceed to removing the wood floor.
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Old March 16, 2017, 21:32   #12
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Throw junk steel into the footing for reinforcement, if you have any scrap..
Last concrete anchor job I did, some dipshit did just that. We had to place 1" anchors 10" deep. Fugging idiots used old "T" posts for rebar... cost me twenty 1" SDS bits.
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Old March 16, 2017, 22:03   #13
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I'd use horse panels and not scrap. It's easy to tie together. Also dig the whole 2 feet wider in all directions and have the panel reinforcement hang out that 2 ft. Then bury the overhang when you're done and that should stop the dogs from digging under. Also get the dogs some kind of lean to or something where they can stay cool.
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Old March 17, 2017, 01:00   #14
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So if I understand properly, you laid down a wood railing, stem wall, around the perimeter, onto the concrete forms, then used 2x4 floor joists laid across the top of the wood railing, stem wall, to attache the floor panels????
Then raised the walls on this floor???

If I have this right, why not just jack up the sides of the building about 4/6 inches, first one side then the other and block it level.
Use short pieces of 4x6 lumber, about 4 inches long, one piece under each side.
Then just tear/saw out the existing floor to the sill plates, leaving the building up and resting on the sill plates and no floor.

Place a wood form out from the building as far as you wish, level it off with the bottom of the building sill plate, and pour concrete inside building to level with sill and level with top of form around building.

We'd do it this way down south, all the wooden floor joists would rot due to so much rain.

Far Easier than moving the building. and less chance of pulling it out of square and fracturing the walls and roof. You drag it, nails will pop, doors goes out of square, and the roof will leak.

I'd make the outside form about two foot wider than building all around, and dig down about 12 inches, width of shovel on inside of the outside form, this will prevent the mutts and such from digging under the foundation. Lay down chicken wire under the edge of the foundation form and out from foundations form a foot or so, then back fill with dirt/gravel, will prevent squirrels, rats, and mutts from digging under it as well.
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Old March 17, 2017, 06:55   #15
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I replaced the sills and added a foundation to my small barn some years ago. The building originally was over the dam and housed the water powered ice elevator and when refrigeration became common, it fell into disuse. The barn was then moved to dry land but no effort was made for a foundation other then some rocks. The termites were enjoying the banquet set before them and it needed to be fixed. Holes were punched through the sides just under the second floor, beams run through and the building was lifted slowly corner by corner with a front end loader and cribbing built under the exposed ends of the beams. The rotten and termite eaten sills were removed and a trench was dug by hand (husband and wife team) at the perimeter for the foundation. The trench was about deep enough for three rows of block and rose above grade by two rows. J bolts were fixed in place in the block foundation with concrete and the new sills were bolted to them. The building was lowered on to the sills with the upright studs being sistered/built down as needed. A concrete floor was then poured which is a few inches above grade. The holes in the walls were patched and the old shake shingles replaced to cover them. It wasn't that expensive either or, at least I thought so, at the time. Glad I did it too.
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Old March 17, 2017, 07:38   #16
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Looks like a lot of different interpretations on what you wrote.
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Old March 17, 2017, 09:34   #17
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If you notice, I suggested putting scrap steel into the footing area, not the slab. There should be no problem hitting the footing steel if it is deep enough. The slab should have the normal mesh reinforcement.

Regarding drilling the slab, running into mesh is just part of the job.

I have poured 2 exterior patio and porch slabs, however, that I have never drilled into, that are full of scrap farm steel. No cracks after 35 years.
Expansion joints are necessary for cold climates of course, and these slabs are 50' long, 8' long sections, 12 feet wide. Kind of like a concrete highway; imagine that. Highway concrete must be poured to be jack hammered apart and cannot be over reinforced; not to spec anyway.

My pole barn project will be 6"+ thick concrete, plus deep footing areas, 40'x 40', and be reinforced for lifts and heavy equipment. There will be mesh and likely some scrap if I have any.

The biggest fault for iron reinforced highway concrete in the northeast, is salt infiltration rusting the steel inside the concrete.
Concrete, after all is pretty porous.

We replace most bridge decks and structural steel, on a regular basis.
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Old March 17, 2017, 10:03   #18
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This ^^^^
Good luck.
what he said, there was a guy who had the biggest gun shop in Sydney in the 1960s-90s, he used old surplus lee enfield and martini henry barreled actions as rebar for his drivewat and footings for his garage. you could use fal barrel stubs..
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Old March 17, 2017, 10:28   #19
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You sure that is 20' x 20' ? Looks like maybe 12 x 12,from the photo. If the doors are 36" each,and they fold open to lay along the edge of the building,thats about a 12 foot wall.
We me,I'd look at demo of that shed,and put a 20 foot sea container there,on a slab. Containers are onder $2 k these days,and no rats are gonna chew thru one.
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Old March 17, 2017, 11:21   #20
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The reason for my idea of the block, is not for supporting the shed so much as keeping the dogs from digging under the foundation.

This is what I have now, under the existing shed. Rabbits go underneath and the dogs are determined to dig them out. Their holes go several feet down. The other problem is some leveling I've done to the horse area after building the shed, has left the shed slightly below the surrounding ground level. Hasn't flooded yet, but could. It doesn't rain much out here in the desert, but when it does, it can flood easily. The ground is packed so hard the water doesn't soak in, but just flows across the top.



This is what I have in mind. The difference is that I'd back fill the whole inside to 4" short of the top of the cinderblock, using the block as a frame. Then pour the concrete into it.

The outside would be back-filled, bringing it to the surrounding ground level. The block going down several feet, would prevent digging.



So after fill/pour it would look like kindof like this, and I'd just push the shed back on top of it.



I also like the idea of cutting out the existing floor and using the concrete as the floor, particularly if that alleviates the trapped moisture problem. I can drill through the footer and sink 1/2" red-heads after moving the shed back on top. I'm not anticipating it blowing away, but it sounds reasonable.

And no, while I might use FAL barrels instead of rebar in the cinderblock, I'd use that square mesh stuff in the floor.

I like the idea of backfilling first, then digging a trench around the "floor" and pouring the foundation and floor at one time, I'd need to go really deep to keep these guys from digging under it.



Maybe a combination of the two? Build the block frame at 16x16, then trench the inside perimeter of it down (12x12?), then pour a 4" slab?

Non-occupied structure below a certain square footage, and outside city limits. No permitting required.
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Old March 17, 2017, 11:45   #21
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If I have this right, why not just jack up the sides of the building about 4/6 inches, first one side then the other and block it level.
Use short pieces of 4x6 lumber, about 4 inches long, one piece under each side.
Then just tear/saw out the existing floor to the sill plates, leaving the building up and resting on the sill plates and no floor.

Place a wood form out from the building as far as you wish, level it off with the bottom of the building sill plate, and pour concrete inside building to level with sill and level with top of form around building.

Far Easier than moving the building. and less chance of pulling it out of square and fracturing the walls and roof. You drag it, nails will pop, doors goes out of square, and the roof will leak.

I'd make the outside form about two foot wider than building all around, and dig down about 12 inches, width of shovel on inside of the outside form, this will prevent the mutts and such from digging under the foundation. Lay down chicken wire under the edge of the foundation form and out from foundations form a foot or so, then back fill with dirt/gravel, will prevent squirrels, rats, and mutts from digging under it as well.
This is interesting. I just think it would be easier to drag it off and drag it back then try to work within the structure (with floor removed) raised on screw jacks. It would also give access to my neighbor's tractor - he has a front end loader and a backhoe and has very reasonable rates. Much preferred to shovel and wheel-barrow.
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Old March 17, 2017, 11:50   #22
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You sure that is 20' x 20' ? Looks like maybe 12 x 12,from the photo. If the doors are 36" each,and they fold open to lay along the edge of the building,thats about a 12 foot wall.
We me,I'd look at demo of that shed,and put a 20 foot sea container there,on a slab. Containers are onder $2 k these days,and no rats are gonna chew thru one.
you're right, I don't know where I came up with 20x20. It's 12x12.

With outside temps 120F, I don't want a steel building. Even with the roof-mounted whirlybirds, it gets to be 140+ inside.
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Old March 17, 2017, 12:04   #23
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You don't need a slab under a wood floor like that. If you did it you'd want the floor elevated above the slab for ventilation thus negating the slab. You could place the floor directly on the slab and if it's really dry there it would last a long time but it's not standard.

If the walls are outside the wood floor the wood floor could be removed once in place. With the floor removed, a slab would be justified.

The top pic looks plenty for walk in hay bale storage. The block foundation would help with the dog holes. Buried chicken wire is a good deterrent too. I employ a dog kennel on a slab which cuts down on digging time for Fido. My dog mostly runs free since he's old and the digging force was weak in my breed.

I assume you're not going to do a fancy mortared and reinforced concrete footing wall and the concrete blocks placed loose would stop undermining by Fido.

It's obvious to most but sloping the ground down and away from your structure is usually the cheapest way to avoid drainage problems.
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Old March 17, 2017, 12:20   #24
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You don't need a slab under a wood floor like that. If you did it you'd want the floor elevated above the slab for ventilation thus negating the slab. You could place the floor directly on the slab and if it's really dry there it would last a long time but it's not standard.

If the walls are outside the wood floor the wood floor could be removed once in place. With the floor removed, a slab would be justified.
The more I think about this, the more I like it. The wood floor is because it was raised with airflow underneath. Unfortunately, lots of critters like being underneath too (including a 4' rattler a few years back!)

Quote:
I assume you're not going to do a fancy mortared and reinforced concrete footing wall and the concrete blocks placed loose would stop undermining by Fido.
What worked very well on my raised garden beds was to lay just lay the cinderblock on the ground, and pound a 2-3' piece of rebar into the ground every other block. Then do the second course with mortar and solid fill the ones with rebar. No foundation per se, but also not load bearing.




Quote:
It's obvious to most but sloping the ground down and away from your structure is usually the cheapest way to avoid drainage problems.
That's what I have now, but I need another 12-18" to get the arena totally level, and that would put the shed maybe 24-30" below that level, just 8' away. So I'd have to add a block retaining wall section to keep the arena dirt from washing down. Makes more sense to raise the barn. My plot slopes so water flows from the north west corner to the south east corner. I've gotten the north end mostly level east to west for the horses. This is the lowest point east to west of my 1.5 acres, although it is still higher than further south on the north east to south east line.
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Old March 17, 2017, 12:23   #25
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This is interesting. I just think it would be easier to drag it off and drag it back then try to work within the structure (with floor removed) raised on screw jacks. It would also give access to my neighbor's tractor - he has a front end loader and a backhoe and has very reasonable rates. Much preferred to shovel and wheel-barrow.
Buildings are stressed in one direction for most part, put stress on them from side, wind loading, or pulling them across the ground, strains all the nails in the walls and roof, mainly roof.

We'd use regular piston car jacks for something this small. Dig a hole big enough for the jack to fit under, a piece of 2x4 on top of piston, and jack'er up, block that side, move to other, repeat.
Cut out rotted floor to sill plates, add form, pour concrete, once set, knock out the blocks and patch with concrete.

If you could get a small front loader into the site, seen and done a couple lifts using the front tines to lift up the sides, then block, or even enough people to push/tilt building up to block it above ground level.

Add in a dozen well meaning friends, just keep the alcohol away from them until the building is fully supported and blocked up.

Hillbilly construction, ain't fancy, but it works.
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Old March 17, 2017, 12:49   #26
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Old March 17, 2017, 12:57   #27
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Buildings are stressed in one direction for most part, put stress on them from side, wind loading, or pulling them across the ground, strains all the nails in the walls and roof, mainly roof.
I get that, but since it currently has a floor, I'm thinking that will significantly reduce the stress. Certainly would not remove the floor until it was back on the (new) slab. then I could jack up one side a few inches, cut the floor out from that half, then move to the other side.
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Old March 17, 2017, 13:28   #28
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I get that, but since it currently has a floor, I'm thinking that will significantly reduce the stress. Certainly would not remove the floor until it was back on the (new) slab. then I could jack up one side a few inches, cut the floor out from that half, then move to the other side.
And once you get the concrete under the sill, all would be solid.
I have a 12x16 and a 12x12 with concrete foundations, and no moisture or rot issues and we get more rain than you do. I did not even bother putting down a moisture barrier.
I would suggest spraying the dirt under the concrete with termite treatment.
Those critters can eat and do eat anything down here not protected.
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Old March 17, 2017, 15:50   #29
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Well,being pretty much set on using footers and block,my next suggestion would be use block in the walls as well. And go high,like 10 foot. You don't have a gob of square feet,so storage will come from a vertical plane. With decent steel doors,if you ever decide to use the building for something else,it will be pretty secure. Lots of buildings like that around here,that the old farmers built to house their water pump equipment in. I have one,8'x12',concrete floor,but wood walls and roof. Would have been a lot more awesome in block. I may yet replace it in block,still.
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Old March 17, 2017, 16:03   #30
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Dog's looking for cooler shade away from the sun baked earth in the summer time and not finding it will instinctually dig for it to take advantage of the temperature differential,,, any raised building without a surface to buried subsurface barrier around it's base or a rattle snake nest under it is a target of opportunity.
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Old March 18, 2017, 14:23   #31
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speaking of critters under the shed . . .

It hit 95 F (and it's only noon) and this girl decided to visit.



Short work with a shovel. Only about 3', but she's still not welcome.

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Old March 18, 2017, 17:15   #32
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have you tried setting 55 gallon plastic drums w/ open tops,
on the side, elevated on a single post w/ a shade roof / deck for the dogs ?

shade roof over the drum keeps it cooler & the single post to elevate lets the dog choose in the drum or under & you can see if a snake is under there .....
the roof/deck lets them sun themselves if they want to warm up when it is cold

the height of the single post is dependent on the dog & less chance of a snake taking up residence inside

not my pic VVVVVV

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Old March 18, 2017, 21:35   #33
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Mark, I have moved a much smaller shed and used this method. First I jacked up the shed enough to get 4x4 lumber and a frame underneath making sure the frame was across the floor joists and not in line with them. The frame was made from 2x4's laid on the flat side (you could go long side vertical if you think you need the added support strength) and used to keep the 4x4's in place while pulling the shed. Then lower the shed onto the skid and connect up your tow ropes/chains/cables. I would use four 4x4's to act as the skids. Just remember to cut the ends to get rid of the flat faces that would dig in. Prep you skid path smooth and free of large rocks, roots, and and anything that would impede a smooth move. I would estimate your shed to be about 3 tons (6000 lbs), so a decent sized piece of equipment should be able to slide it with no problem. Remember to move it to a location which will not impede equipment access to the desired site for the new foundation.

This is close to what I built and used, just left off the flooring shown.

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Old March 18, 2017, 23:45   #34
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Yeah keep the wood floor for moving purposes and place a simple slab and then cut the floor out when you are done.
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Old March 19, 2017, 02:52   #35
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Old March 19, 2017, 09:01   #36
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The dogs are digging because they are trying to rid the Gunplumber territory of whatever ain't supposed to be there. They see it as their job. They might even be doing it,seeking Mark's approval,with a headpat or a treat. Some dogs will dig just to access cooler ground. My friends old dog used to dig holes so deep,a full grown man could get down into them...4-5 feet deep.
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Old March 19, 2017, 09:32   #37
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Dogs have full access to inside & air conditioning during the heat. They are not seeking shade.
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Old March 19, 2017, 10:09   #38
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Id be inclined to rent a small trencher and trench a footer around and fill it with concrete 4in wide would be more than enough for your weight Just taper the top to 8 in for the blocks to set on and 2 rows block and your all set..

If You have a wood floor in the barn you dont need a concrete slab Just crushed stone topped with plastic vapor barrier.. JMHO
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Old March 19, 2017, 10:49   #39
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I had a pitbull that liked to dig under my fence to try and get at the neighbors dog.

Solved digging problem by using tent stakes to attach 2" of wire fence to ground around perimeter of fence. Solved problem and she was a very smart dog who could break out of any standard dog crate.
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Old March 19, 2017, 13:39   #40
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I had a couple dogs that were heavy duty diggers, the rockchucks would move into the backyard and the dig fest was on. 10/22 took care of the chucks and an electric fence wire stopped the digging. Now the new coonhound just trees the chucks (makes them easier to shoot).
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Old March 19, 2017, 14:56   #41
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I dug out one of the pedestals and got a car jack under it, and can lift the shed.

Unfortunately, the lower floor goes under the wall baseboards. The second layer of plywood goes inside the walls. May make cutting out the floor a problem.

In re-evaluating, I think instead of the cinderblock, I'll just raise the whole area to a little above the stalls/arena, then pour an (appx) 25x25 slab for the 16x16 shed, with the foundation around the edges part of the pour. Will need a short run of block around the edge of the stall just to keep the transition between the arena/stalls and slab clean, but with no accessible dirt around the shed, there's nothing to dig.

When calculating 4 pallets of block and labor versus doubling the size of the pour, I think it will be a wash price wise, and a lot less work. I'm guessing about 7.75 cu yds, and a truck holds 10, so it's still one load.
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Old March 19, 2017, 17:01   #42
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Originally Posted by gunplumber View Post
I dug out one of the pedestals and got a car jack under it, and can lift the shed.

Unfortunately, the lower floor goes under the wall baseboards. The second layer of plywood goes inside the walls. May make cutting out the floor a problem.

In re-evaluating, I think instead of the cinderblock, I'll just raise the whole area to a little above the stalls/arena, then pour an (appx) 25x25 slab for the 16x16 shed, with the foundation around the edges part of the pour. Will need a short run of block around the edge of the stall just to keep the transition between the arena/stalls and slab clean, but with no accessible dirt around the shed, there's nothing to dig.

When calculating 4 pallets of block and labor versus doubling the size of the pour, I think it will be a wash price wise, and a lot less work. I'm guessing about 7.75 cu yds, and a truck holds 10, so it's still one load.
Whatever the sill plate is sitting on should be fine once you cut it back to the sill plate, should be nailed through.
A sawz all and a fire and rescue blade will cut though nails/plywood whatever to get floor out, out to the wall studs/walls.
Then just dump concrete inside and outside to forms.
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Old March 20, 2017, 08:40   #43
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I still need to raise the dirt under the barn, but after giving RiversideSports due consideration, I conclude that he is correct.

Since it is impossible to train a dog not to dig, nor to prevent it from doing what is in it's nature, I just shot them all in the head. No more problems.



Then my daughter came home, and I noted she still had not cleaned her room. So I shot her in the head. And then wife hadn't done dishes, so I shot her in the head. Son got a D on his chemistry exam, so I shot him in the head. My neighbor won't keep his music down at night, so I shot him in the head too. By now, I was running out of ammo, so I went back to reload.

Noted mail carrier had delivered 16014 Briles to 16014 Remuda, so I shot him in the head. And the UPS driver was late, so I shot him too. This is creating a parking problem and I am noting a foul odor emanating from the stack of corpses, but I think overall the killing is going well.

By this time next week, I should (with a few trips home for more ammo) be able to shoot everyone and everything that doesn't immediately bend to my will. I don't get all warm and fuzzy over such things, I ENJOY turning them into gut piles, brings a big shit eating grin across my face.
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Old March 21, 2017, 21:37   #44
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Brought this thread back on topic. Keep it there.
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Old March 27, 2017, 09:35   #45
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made some progress over the weekend. Got too windy for dumping fill dirt over the wall, so will do that today instead of working on guns. Believe mew, I'd rather be working on guns. Still have to figure out how to get it back when the slab is 24" higher than the current grade.





I figure I poured 4 bags of concrete mix a year into holes for 10 years. So I had to dig out around 40 bags of concrete mix, along with all the rocks and bricks. As a kid I wanted to be an archeologist, but somehow digging with a hand pick now lacks the excitement of discovery I had as a child.

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Old March 27, 2017, 10:19   #46
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"" Still have to figure out how to get it back when the slab is 24" higher than the current grade."""

Save the rubble and dirt, build a long slide ramp or if you have access to a couple small sections of old power poles or even rail road ties, slide it up on those and forget about a dirt ramp.
Railroad ties should work fine, block the high side with concrete blocks at edge of slab.
Might need to screw on a couple of 2x4's for ease of sliding up and over railroad ties
Good thing, you can get to the back side to pull it back into place once slab is down.
About done.
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Old March 27, 2017, 12:34   #47
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I don't think it is high enough yet, but I'll water it down for a couple days and see how it settles. This is about 30 buckets from a small-medium tractor.

Maybe do 8" forms and fill the bottom 4" with aggregate? Or is that waste? Unfamiliar territory here.

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Old March 27, 2017, 14:28   #48
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Ya going need to put down 4 or 6 inches of rock and then tamp it down hard.
People throw down slabs on undisturbed soil out here all the time, hard as a rock, but this will need packed rock and a little rebar to make sure slab does not crack when it settles.
A gas tamper can be rented pretty cheap.
If you have rock delivered, have them add a little sand to the mix, easier to tamp it down level and hard.
Just tell em what ya doing, they will add the right mix.
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