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Old October 10, 2018, 20:27   #1
hueyville
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6.5 Cartridges

While the 6.5 Grendel is popular with many in the poodle shooter crowd, I tried it, didn't like it and tore them down. The 6.5 Creedmore is another story and embracing it in turn bolts and repeaters of various types. Like 6mm the 6.5 seems to have a natural inherit accuracy as does the 6mm that allows long, high B.C. bullets in weights that can be used for varmints to big game. Ran across a deal in a set of 6.5mm-300 Rem Mag dies and has me wondering if anyone knows of this cartridge and seems to me a 30-06 case necked down to 6.5 would possibly be a new hotrod variation to the 25-06 and out perform my loved quarter bores of which have one about to be due for a barrel swap.

Articles like this make me want to stick to my quarter bores and write the bullet companies telling them have a fleet and a higher B.C. bullet selection to compete with the 6.5 using rifles I already own and are 1/4 to 1/2 MOA rifles with available projectiles.

https://ronspomeroutdoors.com/blog/2...6-5-creedmoor/

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Old October 10, 2018, 20:52   #2
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The 6.5mm cartridge is such a great new idea. Everybody loves them.

No wait!...the Sweeds and Norwegians were shooting them in 1891
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Old October 10, 2018, 21:06   #3
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Google 256 Newton....your over a hundred years behind the curve huey,,,
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Old October 11, 2018, 05:43   #4
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I've had a .264 Win Mag since '85 and love it. I also have a Rem 700 in .260 which I like. The 1000 yd guys were playing with 6.5 for a while, not sure if they still are 6.5-284 I think it was?? 6.5 bullets get very high BC values.

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Old October 11, 2018, 08:02   #5
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6.5/06

Bullet

100 grs 55grs 4350 3495fps

120 grs 54grs 4350 3310fps

140 grs 53grs 4350 3175fps

150 grs 51grs 4350 2970fps

P O Ackley
Many moons ago, '64 or so.

I'd like a 6.5 X 57 Mauser , but my 6.5 X 55 will have to do.
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Old October 11, 2018, 09:19   #6
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Never thought to pull my Ackley books. Duuh!?! My real issue is investment into 25-06 rifles over 40 years that have always suffered from great bullet selection. Seems like a new kid gets a little press and popularity the accessory and projectile makers rush product to market. I have a 264 Win Mag but is a factory rifle with hunting taper barrel so not really a tack driver as much as a shoulder pounder.

Don't even know why I care as the 7mm Practical's still have throat life and get it done but have a couple other quarter bores that are close to a rebarrel. One can shave the rear, rechamber and refit existing tube after a good look with bore scope but if 6.5mm-06 gives me more bullet selection immediately ordering ready to fit tubes for a smith might be cheaper and give me something new to play wirh. Another issue is new cartridge is new dies and other widgets totalling cost of a basic AR 15. Amazing how much can spend on dies, (always need a standard set and a couple specialty dies) plus bushings for bullet competators then sorting out matched brass for the new cartridge, etc.

But if rebarrelling a 25-06 in the next year whether keep as a quarter or 6.5 won't change price of barrel and smith work, just some additional accessories. Have been running my 6XC's off once fired Tubbs 6XC brass but am not really able to keep up thus causing multiple steps plus fire forming to convert 22-250 brass. Ordered a Whidden 6XC hydraulic case form die for 6XC that's supposed to eliminate the fireforming step and possibly my first step of rolling the shoulder in a 308 die I machined some of the length off die body.

https://www.whiddengunworks.com/hydraulic-form-die/

If load apples for apples as best can the 25-06 shoots flatter than the 6.5 Creedmore but is more influenced by wind drift. Once I get an accurate muzzle and 100 yard velocity on a load my shooting apps or charts can reliably predict drop so I would give up some trajectory for better wind bucking ability. Basically down to splitting hairs that don't even matter as have enough clubs in the bag or tools in the box for task at hand but the desire to find a cartridge that gives more dependable long range first shot cold bore hits is my goal on some rifles and best group once fouled and warmed up in others. Just like steam engines and hot rods might need to find an old man's hooky but my luck would find myself playing with stamps and spending big money on little squares of paper with no real purpose but try to store properly.
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Old October 11, 2018, 13:45   #7
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I like heavy (147grain) loads @ 2720 fps in my 6.5cm. This actually the Hornady factory ammo.
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Old October 12, 2018, 00:41   #8
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Iím not 100% sure some hasnít already started or tried this yet but I it were me Iíd look at something based off the WSM cases neck down to 6.5. Itís been well proven that short and fat cartridges are more accurate than long ones. Look at all the PPC and the WSM family or the 308 vs 30-06.

If youíre going for a wildcat round for long range go with something thatís going to give you everything you need. Also I think barrel life will suffer with a 6.5-300 rem mag.

Looking at your chart you posted Huey, Iím not too impressed with the Creedmore
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Old October 12, 2018, 04:27   #9
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I have been enjoying 6.5 Creedmoor in my Savage Stealth. I like having the ability of changing out the barrel and shifting to .308 in a couple of minutes.

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Old October 12, 2018, 10:43   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grumpy1 View Post
Iím not 100% sure some hasnít already started or tried this yet but I it were me Iíd look at something based off the WSM cases neck down to 6.5. Itís been well proven that short and fat cartridges are more accurate than long ones. Look at all the PPC and the WSM family or the 308 vs 30-06.

If youíre going for a wildcat round for long range go with something thatís going to give you everything you need. Also I think barrel life will suffer with a 6.5-300 rem mag.

Looking at your chart you posted Huey, Iím not too impressed with the Creedmore
Good point but I already have a lot of long action rifles and as rebarrel they won't shrink even if washed in hot water. No, the 6.5 Creedmore does not have huge advantage on 25-06 except in projectile availability. Seems as long as folks have been shooting quarter bores seems like the bullet companies would have more projectiles available. A new kid takes off these days and 30 new projectiles will pop up in a year, 0.257 hasn't seen as many new projectiles in two decades as 6.5 in past five years.

As to barrel life in a 6.5-300WM after long time of shooting overbore cartridges have grown used to watching throats, lapping as need and replacing barrels in few as a1,000 rounds. 7mm RUM, Practical and others are bore eaters though can get 2,000 rounds out of 7mm Practical when careful. Have a 7mm SAUM which is a short magnum but not as much labor into it as my pair of Practical's or some oF my Rem Mags so while believe it could win out on accuracy not chased the short action magnums much due to how many long actions gathered around me before the short action became so prominant.

This thread is kicking the proverbial can down the road as ponder something nagging at the brain. I really don't need anymore precision bolt rifles but if can improve ones I own as service intervals come around cost is the same for a rebarrel in slightly different caliber if bolt face and action length stay the same.
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Old October 13, 2018, 08:05   #11
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Ive never messed much with 25-06, but the 6.5-06 is a good caliber.
Always ment to build a hunting stick for it, but mine is an old school benchrest setup built on a trued remmy 721with a 6oz trigger in a fancy walnut bench stock with a full length #7 shilen match bbl and 36x luppy.
I originally built it to shoot longer range, but circumstance and moves have resulted in it never being stretched past 400m.
It weighs a bunch, but it has a sub 1k round count and still easily shoots bugholes if I do my part.
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Old October 13, 2018, 13:32   #12
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I need to run some Hornady 147 ELDM through my 6.5 Creedmoor AR to see if it likes that more than the 140, which it really likes.
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Old October 13, 2018, 22:41   #13
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6.5X284 for me
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Old October 14, 2018, 06:49   #14
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The picture a post or two up with the Lab Radar reminded me of a question. Anyone using one to get 100, 200 or farther velocity readings? Have gotten data using my Ohleher 35P at muzzle or near, done math then moved it to 100 yards after running math through software to find my actual velocity can be +/-35 to 40 fps off of software and book predictions. This goes exponential at longer distances so when confident get a muzzle and 100 yard velocity on a rifle and load to adjust my algorithms/charts.

Very few rifles will I sit my 35P at the 200 yard lane and risk shooting the screens and supports. A little high or left/right or worse low and spending some cash to fix. If have enough stand-off distance from the unit only issue to worry with the Lab Radar is drift or slap pulling a shot. Several rifles I would like to add 200 yard data that have not tried yet and a pile of rifles would like 400 yard data. With muzzle, 100 and 200 yard data on my nicer rifles really cleans up their drop and energy charts making doping 600 to 900 yard shots much more precise.

If can add 200 yard data to most rifles instead of just some and 400 yard real life data to the precision rifles without shooting my screens believe it will make those one shot opportunities on a coyote at 400 to 600 yards much easier to calculate precisely. Which will not only help with drop but drift if know how fast bullet is travelling at 400 versus what the math from muzzle or muzzle and 100 yard readings give. Believe I can fudge my wind dope to the safe side and get 400 yard readings with the Lab Radar won't ever know with my 35P.
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Old October 14, 2018, 07:14   #15
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6.5X284 for me
6.5x284 is an absolutely fantastic cartridge (not that the others mentioned in this post arenít).
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Old October 14, 2018, 08:48   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hueyville View Post
The picture a post or two up with the Lab Radar reminded me of a question. Anyone using one to get 100, 200 or farther velocity readings? Have gotten data using my Ohleher 35P at muzzle or near, done math then moved it to 100 yards after running math through software to find my actual velocity can be +/-35 to 40 fps off of software and book predictions. This goes exponential at longer distances so when confident get a muzzle and 100 yard velocity on a rifle and load to adjust my algorithms/charts.

. Believe I can fudge my wind dope to the safe side and get 400 yard readings with the Lab Radar won't ever know with my 35P.
I don't believe the LabRadar will get accurate readings beyond 100yds.
I have mine set for 3yds. 20yds 50yds and 75yds.
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Old October 14, 2018, 09:12   #17
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6.5X284 for me
That seems to be the way to go today...
Unless your a cheap bastard like me...lol
Do you load that pretty hot ?
What kind of brass life and cost does that have ?.
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Old October 14, 2018, 09:29   #18
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I see why you like the 6.5◊284 with an extra 150 fps. It would make an interesting single turn bolt project but am wanting to put 6.5 in a mix of AR 10's, M1a's and turn bolts and hopefully benefit from the glut of once fired brass as military uses it more and more. Blackhole Weaponry makes an AR 10 barrel in 6.5◊284 but have to seat bullet so deep that loose enough case capacity your maybe only 50 fps faster than the Creedmore in an AR 10 or M14 magazine/action.

Was planning another 6.5 Creedmore turn bolt to go with my Tikka T3 but if build a couple AR 10's and add a second M1a/M14 in 6.5 Creedmore might make more sense in doing second bolt rifle in 6.5◊284 or 6.5-06. One thing have read is that the 6.5◊284 Lapua varient is a 1,000 round maximum throat life rifle which have my fair share of overbore cartridges with short throat lives. Have learned to watch with bore scope, lap throats and get maximum life from them.

Have same issue with 22 Nosler in AR 15's. If you drive a hotrod motors have to be refreshed often, tans missions rebuilt and break axles, etc. Harder push something less durability it has. I do not mind rebarrelling if get performance worth the effort and cost. Two of my 22 Noslers purchased a pair of matched barrels for each build so have exact same barrel ready when shoot the first one out. With four 22 Noslers can spread the round count out.

The "fighting rifle" version I built loosely on a Mk 12 Mod 0 clone, purchased a pair of Midway AR Stoner 22 Nosler tubes while on deep clearance sale plus was my birthday and used my birthday discount to buy a pair of the 18" heavy barrel fluted tubes then sent both off for cryofreezer treatment to help increase life, fire lapped after installation and run nothing but M855A1 projectiles which are known to wear feed ramps as well but it's my version of a supercharged M4 running M855A1 at an extra 300 fps over 5.56 which makes it a NIJ Level 4 plate burner.

Have so many overbore 7mm's that have estimates from 700 to 900 round throat life to others with 1,200 to 1,500 round throat life and keep their super tight accuracy. A reason built them in pairs from 22-250 Ackley Improved to 7mm RUM and 7mm Practical. Try not to overheat them and switch between the two in each pair then can have one still in service while the other is being rebarreled. So you guys quoting 6.5-06 and it's ability to outrun 6.5◊284 know what it's throat life tends to be. The 6.5◊284 gives ~150 fps over 6.5 Creed and then 6.5-06 seems to outrun ◊284 by another ~150 fps. I like the idea of another 300 fps if do a project but what is inherit accuracy difference between the two and round count? I don't want a 500 to 600 round throat life as by time have developed a good load rifle is half worn out.
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Old October 14, 2018, 20:26   #19
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I did send a 140 VLD at 3263 FPS one time.............
This is all I've worked up so far. Rifle is a 24" Savage.
At 5th firing I see very little stretch but I'm annealing and just bumping the should using a Whidden click die.

Series,Shot,Speed
8, 1, 3263, ft/s
----,----,----,----
55.5 H1000
Easy bolt lift and extraction
Series, 9, Shots:, 3
Min,2823, Max,2839
Avg,2829 ,S-D, 8.4
ES , 16

Series,Shot,Speed
9, 1, 2826, ft/s
9, 2, 2839, ft/s
9, 3, 2823, ft/s
----,----,----,----
57.5 Retumbo
Easy bolt lift and extraction
Series,10, Shots:, 5
Min,2939, Max,2966
Avg,2950 ,S-D,11.1
ES , 27

Series,Shot,Speed
10, 1, 2940, ft/s
10, 2, 2939, ft/s
10, 3, 2954, ft/s
10, 4, 2953, ft/s
10, 5, 2966, ft/s
----,----,----,----
4th firing 140 VLD 3.363 BTO 3.240 COL
55.5 H1000
5 shots
Stats - Average 2826.07 fps
Stats - Highest 2842.21 fps
Stats - Lowest 2808.92 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 33.28 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 11.09 fps
----------------------------------------
Virgin brass 140 VLD 3.363 BTO 3.240 COL
57.9-58.0 Retumbo
10 shots
Stats - Average 2978.57 fps
Stats - Highest 2991.08 fps
Stats - Lowest 2961.44 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 29.64 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 10.15 fps
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