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Old June 25, 2019, 14:03   #1
Southern 7.62
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Any pilots here?

Hey gang. I'm considering starting the process of getting a airplane pilot license. All the info I have obtained thus far has been from the Internet. I do have questions about the process, so if any member here is a pilot and is willing to chat via phone or email, please pm me. Thanks.
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Old June 25, 2019, 15:03   #2
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when i learned to fly it seemed cheap, ($12 per hour) but then again i was making $2.35 and hour. today it will cost about over $6k to do that, maybe more for pvt ticket. maybe join the army and fly choppers
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Old June 25, 2019, 16:53   #3
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I am technically a pilot. I earned my Private Pilot Single Engine Land certificate in the spring of 2000. My last log book entry was Sept 11, 2001. I was shooting touch and goes when President Bush ordered everybody out of the pool.
My vocation got in the way of flying and I haven't gotten back to it yet.
Some things have changed since I was active including the addition of the Sport Pilot cert and the Light Sport Aircraft category.

The only thing of value that I can offer you in regard to getting your ticket is just do it. Go hungry to save up the money. Summertime is coming and living indoors is overrated. Get a box and a nice spot under the overpass and apply the money saved to flying. Send your kids to live with grandma and introduce your wife to a pimp. (OK, that last one may be a bit extreme). The point is sacrifice what you must and get your ticket while you can because life passes you by at warp spend. I may never get back to aviation, but at least I know I did it while I could.

Now, turn to and get it done.
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Old June 25, 2019, 16:56   #4
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You could go light experimental. A friend has one,looks just like a plane,but much lighter construction.
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Old June 25, 2019, 17:00   #5
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some disclosures...

> i am not a pilot.

> i would have loved to have got mine, but so many hobbies and not enough time and money.

You may want to cut to the chase and not deal with online help. You will need to eventually get off your A$$ and do some flying, so i would look for a flight (school) in your area and start making some friends.

While you are there start asking, how much and so forth. You will need to spend $$$ and maybe alot of it to get your behind the wheel time. There is only so much you can do without it.

You will need to spend time behind the wheel with an instructor too and that will add up.

When my friend had is license, i was bankrolling some of his hours after he got his license. I would pay for fuel and we would go places. It was fun to take the stick every so often too. But again, it was spendy.

But go out and look for some schools/places where you can get some flight time and start asking for numbers.

Once you get your single engine? rating, are you going to stop there? Maybe multi rating? Instructor?

VFR only or Instrument ?
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Old June 25, 2019, 17:53   #6
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or buy a plane, C-152 and get a free lance instructor, sell the plane after
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Old June 25, 2019, 17:56   #7
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I fly for a living and I was a flight instructor for a half dozen years.

The price has gone up since I got my private in 1984, so that’s between you and your bank account to figure out. But if you want to do it, you’ll find a way.

Some things to consider:

Part 141/91 flight schools. Under part 141 less time is required for the certificate, but it will be up to you as far as how much time you will need.

Get your written test done before you start. You can do this through a ground school (preferred), a test prep course or on your own. The “test prep” will quickly get you a passing score on the test, but you should want to actually learn the information not just remember the correct answers. If you are disciplined and motivated, you can study on your own using any of the available programs, but an actual ground school will give you an instructor and classroom time that may be helpful.

Once that is out of the way, find a flight school that will accommodate your schedule. How many airplanes do they have and how many flight instructors. How often can you fly? Flying only once a week will slow the process down considerably.

Be motivated. Study hard and be prepared when you go for your lessons. The more times something has to be covered while in the airplane the longer it will take. I would forget the half way programs like “sport pilot” and such. Learn how to fly. It’s important and your life depends on it.

Stop what you’re doing right now and get the book “Stick and Rudder” by Wolfgang Langewiesche. Read it until it all makes sense, then read it again. The best book ever written on how to fly an airplane. I still give copies of that book to some of my first officers that never learned properly.

Also, find an instructor you “mesh” with and stick to them. Multiple instructors are problematic at early stages. Listen to them, and do what they tell you even if they are half your age. Ask questions if you don’t understand and did I mention, STUDY!!!!

I’ve taught hundreds of people to fly, from private through multi engine commercial. I know what works and what doesn’t. I teach (and learn) every time I climb into the cockpit.

Good luck.

Pete
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Old June 25, 2019, 18:02   #8
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https://archive.org/details/StickAnd...TheArtOfFlying
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Old June 25, 2019, 19:16   #9
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I got my license in South Africa, actually came to the US to work here a couple years and save enough money to buy a Cessna 172. Well that never happened, and flying in upstate NY was challenging the weather gods. By the time I moved to AZ, I got into other expensive things and life moved on.

I almost bought a gyrocopter in AZ, saw it in the local paper for 5K, called the guy and he told me he just sold it. Probably a good thing..

Lately been browsing the aircraft classifieds on FB, and getting severe sticker shock.

I loved flying though, it was a type of freedom not many get to experience.
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Old June 25, 2019, 19:27   #10
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First solo flight at 16 and earned my PPL at 17.

1). It's worth every penny.
2). It's the most fun you can have with your pants on.
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Old June 25, 2019, 21:41   #11
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If you can only fly once a week, save your money and time until you can fly more. Go big or go home. If you don't go often enough in the beginning, you'll waste a lot of time and money reviewing what you did the lesson before.

Study study study and try to get a real good handle on the material BEFORE you start paying for a plane and instructor.

Fly helos for the army, then transition. It's a million bucks worth of flight school, and they pay you to take it. Plus you get to go through dunker and SERE!!
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Old June 26, 2019, 00:34   #12
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Get your self a radio controlled plane with 4 channels: Throttle, ailerons, elevator and rudder.

Learn to actually fly it: glide, trim, landing, straight and level, stalls, in cross winds, etc...

The concepts transfer.

Your knowledge will build much faster and You will save some coin and solo sooner perhaps.


Last edited by gunshooter; June 26, 2019 at 00:36. Reason: stalls...
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Old June 26, 2019, 08:29   #13
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I started flying in 1972 when it was really not too expensive. Surely nothing in hour wise compared to some here ( 3000 + ) and several aircraft but rest assured of one thing it cost me almost everything i could come up with to as EAA would say "Keep them flying" Finally sold my last L-19 about five years ago and really miss flying but it can be so expensive. I would think locate a instructor and as said before buy a Cessna 152 to get pvt. By then you should know someone to use aircraft to get inst. and comm.
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Old June 26, 2019, 09:42   #14
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Thanks for all the responses here guys.
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Old June 26, 2019, 10:32   #15
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From 2002-2006 I owned a flight school (part 61) so here are some thoughts and observations.

As others have stated, no less than twice a week for flying. If you cant afford that don’t do it. No one (ok almost no one) finishes in the minimum amount of hours. The FAA requires something along the lines of 40 hours (35 for part 141) to earn a private pilot license, my average student would have 50-55 hours. Guys who flew more often and came from mechanical backgrounds tended to be less. Give me a bulldozer operator over a lawyer any day of the week for actually learning how to manipulate the controls........that said the lawyer could pass the written in about 20 minutes with 96 or above.

Whatever cost they give you at a Flight school will be for the minimum hours, so please please please plan accordingly. The number 1 reason people didn’t finish was money. Not having the ability to learn was a very distant second. In 3000 hours of instructing I only had two students who I had to tell, you will kill yourself or others, go find a different hobby. All of that said I honestly think your looking at around 10k to get your license.

61 vs 141 schools. Part 61 is more relaxed and is what you will find with your typical mom and pop flight school/FBO scenario. 141 is much more structured, and usually cost a little more. If all you are wanting is a private pilot license go part 61. This is going to be who you rent from afterwards so you might as well establish a relationship from the start.

If after a few flights you don’t mesh with your instructor, say something. I have traded a student to another cfi and likewise had a student ask for another instructor. That is perfectly ok and any cfi who is good will help you find someone who gets through to you better.

My last thought is be happy and enjoy the experience. At a minimum get a private license. If afterwords you want to mess around with light sport stuff that’s fine but the knowledge you get earning your ppl will benefit you greatly. If you do this and you have questions about anything ask up here. There are several of us who will gladly give any advice you want.......and we wont charge ground school rates!

Good luck

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Old June 26, 2019, 13:34   #16
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A few more thoughts...

1). Apply for scholarships.
2). Microsoft Flight Simulator X. A great way to familiarize yourself with the basics, especially on a rainy day. (Evidently, Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 will be released next year, too!)
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Old June 26, 2019, 15:47   #17
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I'm taking the sport pilot route. I'm too old for the airlines and I wouldn't want to deal with the industry and passengers. I'm going to get a sport pilots license for Autogyros, they are safer than planes and helos.

The new Autogyros being produced today in Europe are inexpensive, safer to fly and more fun. The training is type specific and only $5k and

This model, the Cavalon is under $80K with a Rotax turbo engine, Digital touchscreen Multifunction Display with ADS-B and side by side seating.

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Old June 26, 2019, 16:48   #18
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Interesting and timely thread.
I took my first ground school in the fall of 1963 as a college course at Shasta JC in northern CA. Life got more complicated, and didn't pursue flying.

At age 73 I start lessons for the light sport rating in a couple of weeks. Taking the motorhome to Greenleaf ID. and will have instruction daily until I am done. They estimate, if I am a decent student, 35 days. Passed my written, and am in the middle of reading Stick and Rudder.

I'm getting the Sport rating to avoid the medical issue. Besides, what I can do with a light sport plane is all I really want to do.
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Old June 26, 2019, 17:01   #19
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Yep....airline guy....
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Old June 27, 2019, 11:15   #20
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Interesting and timely thread.
I took my first ground school in the fall of 1963 as a college course at Shasta JC in northern CA. Life got more complicated, and didn't pursue flying.

At age 73 I start lessons for the light sport rating in a couple of weeks. Taking the motorhome to Greenleaf ID. and will have instruction daily until I am done. They estimate, if I am a decent student, 35 days. Passed my written, and am in the middle of reading Stick and Rudder.

I'm getting the Sport rating to avoid the medical issue. Besides, what I can do with a light sport plane is all I really want to do.
If my understanding is correct, in order to use your drivers license as your sport pilot medical, you have to had a 3rd class or higher Medical certificate in effect in 2006 or after and it must not have been revoked before it expired. I may be wrong though.
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Old June 27, 2019, 12:01   #21
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There are different medical possibilities depending on aircraft and pilot.

There is Sport Pilot (Sport Pilot certificate, or perhaps a Private Pilot only exercising sport pilot privileges with day VFR). Aircraft needs to be S-LSA, E-LSA or one of the type certificated aircraft that are compatible with Sport Pilot (like an Ercoupe). Drivers license = medical as long as you were never denied a FAA medical.

https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certifi...n/sportpilots/

There are gliders, including the variety of motor gliders (self launch, sustainer, touring motorglider). No medical needed for private pilot AFAIK. AFAIK, no medical for balloon pilots, either. Some gliders and balloons can also be Sport Pilot or Private Pilot as long as they meet Sport Pilot features.

And we have had Basic Med for a while. Need to have had a 3rd class medical at least once since July 14, 2006 (taken to be expiration date more recent than July 14 2006, not issue date, so more pilots are eligible) and no denials. https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certifi...ion/basic_med/

Basic Med is probably the most versatile for those who can use it, as it can be Day or Night VFR or IFR as long as not for hire, not more than 5 passengers, below 18,000 feet and less than 250 knots.

You can always keep getting 3rd class medicals. Or maybe get a 3rd class medical once and then do Basic Med.

I am not an AME.
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Old June 27, 2019, 12:26   #22
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In case I didn't make sense, Basic Med does not apply to pilots with Sport Pilot certificates. They still have only Sport Pilot privileges. Basic Med is a great fit with PPL.

Hard to argue with the C152 suggestion. As long as you don't have to deal with cost and hassle of adding ADS-B out just to use it where you are. Consider MOGAS STC if it does not already have one, maybe check how close someone is selling Swift Fuel UL94.

There is the older set of MOGAS STCs (EAA, I think), and now the Swift Fuel version.

https://swiftfuels.com/stc/

https://swiftfuels.com/ul94-map/

Can also find retail locations selling ethanol free MOGAS on line.

https://www.pure-gas.org/

I guess we missed the announced deadline to end 100LL fuel since the UL102 replacement is not ready for prime time.

2 biggest (cost) misgivings I have about 40 year old aircraft are ADS-B out (and then avionics replacement generally) and continued 100LL availability. Available fuel is a bigger concern as engine HP increases/MOGAS STC availability decreases.

Touring motor gliders are a slick alternative if you want modern equipment and looks and can deal with purchase price. Operating costs are not bad. Can be PPL or Sport Pilot as long as the aircraft performance does not get out of Sport Pilot. Going PPL and experimental with touring motor gliders can get some impressive performance. But upfront cost is there. PPL advantage is again not needing 3rd class, so why not go PPL glider?

A related attraction to S-LSA for some owners and pilots is modern equipment and aircraft, common engines often suited to both MOGAS and 100LL. Downside is upfront cost.
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Old June 27, 2019, 13:19   #23
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Originally Posted by DrBaboon View Post
There are different medical possibilities depending on aircraft and pilot.

There is Sport Pilot (Sport Pilot certificate, or perhaps a Private Pilot only exercising sport pilot privileges with day VFR). Aircraft needs to be S-LSA, E-LSA or one of the type certificated aircraft that are compatible with Sport Pilot (like an Ercoupe). Drivers license = medical as long as you were never denied a FAA medical.

https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certifi...n/sportpilots/

There are gliders, including the variety of motor gliders (self launch, sustainer, touring motorglider). No medical needed for private pilot AFAIK. AFAIK, no medical for balloon pilots, either. Some gliders and balloons can also be Sport Pilot or Private Pilot as long as they meet Sport Pilot features.

And we have had Basic Med for a while. Need to have had a 3rd class medical at least once since July 14, 2006 (taken to be expiration date more recent than July 14 2006, not issue date, so more pilots are eligible) and no denials. https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certifi...ion/basic_med/

Basic Med is probably the most versatile for those who can use it, as it can be Day or Night VFR or IFR as long as not for hire, not more than 5 passengers, below 18,000 feet and less than 250 knots.

You can always keep getting 3rd class medicals. Or maybe get a 3rd class medical once and then do Basic Med.

I am not an AME.
Cool. I must have been mixing my beans and mashed taters. Thank you for the clarification.
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Old June 27, 2019, 13:20   #24
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If my understanding is correct, in order to use your drivers license as your sport pilot medical, you have to had a 3rd class or higher Medical certificate in effect in 2006 or after and it must not have been revoked before it expired. I may be wrong though.
It is my understanding that as long as I have never been denied a medical, I can self-certify my medical condition by having a valid driver's license. That's the main reason I'm not trying for my private pilot license. As long as I don't take a flying physical I can't be denied the physical.. Sure, I can afford a more expensive plane (would love a c182) but will settle for a S-LSA.
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Old June 27, 2019, 13:28   #25
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If you are able, pay for the 40 hours of plane rental and instruction upfront, that way you are committed. Get rid of the rest of you hobbies (except FAL's) so you can dedicate spare time to study and flying. As others have said, once you start try to fly at least once a week. I got my private about 6 years ago and due to my work schedule and weather it took 15 months from start to finish. I had a few stretches in the spring and again in the fall when I didn't fly for 4+ weeks, but it wasn't too bad polishing the rust back off. It can be like drinking from a firehose at times, I remember being in the pattern with my instructor in the right seat and I couldn't remember my own name, much less what I was supposed to say on the radio, but it is second nature now. The limiting factor with most students is doing good landings and that comes from seat of the pants experience doing bad landings, maybe 50+. Nothing but flying the plane will help you with landings, so don't waste your time on a simulator, you aren't flying a 737. The thing I like about flying is not only the freedom and relaxed feeling while cruising around, but also the concentration required while landing. I learned to clear my mind of all distractions to the point that the whole world was only me, the plane and the landing strip, if not I am not pleased with my landing, and flying a tail dragger a bad landing can be very expensive, 172's are much more forgiving.
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Old June 27, 2019, 14:02   #26
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It is my understanding that as long as I have never been denied a medical, I can self-certify my medical condition by having a valid driver's license. That's the main reason I'm not trying for my private pilot license. As long as I don't take a flying physical I can't be denied the physical.. Sure, I can afford a more expensive plane (would love a c182) but will settle for a S-LSA.
Yes, DrBaboon clarified that in the post above. Very cool!
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Old June 27, 2019, 15:29   #27
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Almost became a pilot in my youth. Had a friend who was an instructor. He was willing to teach me for free. Told me to buy the books and pay for the plane rental and he'd volunteer his instruction. I had about 5 hours of instruction in a Cessna 152.

Then my roommate asked me if I wanted to go skydiving one weekend. All it took was one jump and I was hooked. I stopped flying and started jumping as I couldn't afford both. I quit jumping a few years and a couple hundred jumps later. I went back to school to complete my degree. During that time I was jumping just enough to stay current, but not really enough to stay safe. So, I quit.

Looking back now I wish I had stayed with flying.
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Old June 27, 2019, 21:19   #28
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or buy a plane, C-152 and get a free lance instructor, sell the plane after
^^^^^ THIS^^^^^
I hold an Airman's certificate,, I took a few lessons in a 152 then found a Cherokee PA-28 180 for $14,000.00 bought it and learned the rest from as many pilots willing to teach me and I had an official instructor who I traded Aircraft time for instructions time = !
I also worked at PWM in Maine and was a ""RAMPIE" AC refuel-er, Moving airliners and fueling the Big boys ,, Thats where I kept my Plane, We also flew Cessna 402's twins hauling freight around from Me to Ny and beyond , I used to hop rides to see my family back in NY and the Pilots would mostly let me drive , One time Im with a Newer guy retired navy fighter Jock and hes letting me drive we come into the clouds and he says let me take it --I say Let me try -after about 10 Mins IFR he exclaims =HOW MUCH TIME Do You have in these things -- I still have a solo sign off in my book!! I actually have more twin 402 time than I have Cherokee time . Next trip I ask If I can drive and he says Yea-Tells me to get in Back and he unbuckles his seat belts and tells me to get up here in the "Real drivers seat on the left ! he was also An Instructor and he logged the time in my book
Finally I returned to NY and had the plane at the local airport .A beautiful Sunday morning I called a bunch of friends looking for someone who wanted to fly to Erie Pa for Lunch after everyone turned me down [ball game on Tv etc] I decided I had enough fun and expense of owning a aircraft for fun ,, The two happiest day in Airplanes are the day you buy it and the Day you sell it !! If You want to Fly for fun---- Hire an instructor to take you up and let you fly --get a job at an airport where you will be around other pilots== there are ways --I still remember the rides I got with a navy jock who owned a Pitts S-2 aerobatic Bi-plane, [No I did Not Puke] Another time One of My friends who was 23 yo freight driver went with me for a ride in my airplane -Let me drive he says -- Pulls back on the yoke turns and stuffs the right rudder and HOLLY SHIT BATMAN we be'z upside down Oh yea the stories abound ! Oh Yea he joined the Navy and flew F-14's off a boat then went to Mirimar as a TOP GUN Instructor !!! Yep Just Like the Movie!!
Have Fun ,, Randy
PS-- There are NO Flying Jobs worth a shit Unless you are a Multi engine IFR -former military with 3000 Hrs turbine time with No medical wavers- Between 5'11" and 6"3' Slight tinges of gray hair !!! and Just trying to be helpful !

Last edited by randy762ak; June 27, 2019 at 21:26.
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Old June 27, 2019, 22:19   #29
Skilter
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Originally Posted by Hebrew Battle Rifle View Post
I am technically a pilot. I earned my Private Pilot Single Engine Land certificate in the spring of 2000. My last log book entry was Sept 11, 2001. I was shooting touch and goes when President Bush ordered everybody out of the pool.
My vocation got in the way of flying and I haven't gotten back to it yet.
Some things have changed since I was active including the addition of the Sport Pilot cert and the Light Sport Aircraft category.

The only thing of value that I can offer you in regard to getting your ticket is just do it. Go hungry to save up the money. Summertime is coming and living indoors is overrated. Get a box and a nice spot under the overpass and apply the money saved to flying. Send your kids to live with grandma and introduce your wife to a pimp. (OK, that last one may be a bit extreme). The point is sacrifice what you must and get your ticket while you can because life passes you by at warp spend. I may never get back to aviation, but at least I know I did it while I could.

Now, turn to and get it done.
This... I have the exact same story almost to the day. Just do it... The worst part about it will be when you have to quit and miss it.
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Old June 27, 2019, 22:54   #30
RRotz
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This... I have the exact same story almost to the day. Just do it... The worst part about it will be when you have to quit and miss it.
Same situation here. Life is too short and I wasted the opportunity to go for it and push thru to a commercial rating.
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Old July 01, 2019, 20:44   #31
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I like flying small planes.

I need more money to fly.

My brother is a Captain flying Airbus 320 for Allegiant.

I try to get him to rent a cessna of some sort when ever I visit Florida to cruise around and practice touch and goes.


Then I sit on the dock and watch ac-130's and Ospreys fly around the gulf.
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