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Old February 05, 2018, 14:32   #1
Jolly Rodgers
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Just a few bad apples?

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8...-reveals-vgtrn

It's not only in tv dramas.
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Old February 05, 2018, 16:48   #2
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Uh, er, um, RUSSIANS! Look over there thousands of Russians!

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Old February 05, 2018, 16:57   #3
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I certainly believe that there are good cops out there, but they damn sure need to start stepping up and proving it!

YMMV
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Old February 05, 2018, 18:20   #4
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But, but...thin blue line.
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Old February 05, 2018, 19:19   #5
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Last week, the beginning of an*explosive corruption trial*involving eight members of Baltimore's elite Gun Trace Task Force revealed that a handful of Baltimore cops allegedly kept fake guns in their patrol cars to plant on innocent people—a failsafe they could use if they happened to shoot an unarmed suspect, the*Baltimore Sun*reports.


This makes good sense if you are corrupt. No serial numbers like a real gun has so you can't trace it. Nobody finding a real gun you might leave in the back and convincing enough that it would pass in a court of law. Toy guns, heck that sure makes sense.
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Old February 05, 2018, 19:30   #6
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Just like shovels in Iraq.
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Old February 05, 2018, 21:21   #7
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If there are any clean cops out there they would search the entire department and all the vehicles then fire anyone with a toy gun in their possession. Toy guns are a tool to get away with murder when it's in a cops rig in my opinion.
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Old February 05, 2018, 21:49   #8
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Old February 06, 2018, 06:56   #9
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Originally Posted by Jolly Rodgers View Post
Yes, just a few bad apples. Here's the reality; most of these high profile cases involve so called "elite" units with lots of leeway in how they operate and very lax supervision. If you see a unit that operates in plain clothes, with extremely flexible schedules, access to weapons, money, supervision and training unavailable to the flatfoot working the street, watch out. Especially if those units are supposed to produce results like getting drugs, guns and sex workers off the streets and have an aura of desirability for getting into them with flamboyant leaders building teams of 'hard hitters." They are also a major problem with large agencies as accountability tends to drop when you get over about 1,000 cops in an agency.

Both my current and former agencies are part of a Federally sponsored drug task force and have a strict limit on how long cops can be assigned to the TF to counteract these kinds of problems. They rotate cops and supervisors out of these units on a regular basis so as to avoid the issues that can come from cops no longer remembering they are cops and that they have to obey the rule of law rather than focusing on the results as politicians and Chief's often demand.

So yes, while I wholeheartedly condemn any abuse of power by cops, things like this are eminently avoidable by better leadership, supervision, selection and accountability.
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Old February 06, 2018, 07:34   #10
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Old February 07, 2018, 16:04   #11
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Yes, just a few bad apples. Here's the reality; most of these high profile cases involve so called "elite" units with lots of leeway in how they operate and very lax supervision. If you see a unit that operates in plain clothes, with extremely flexible schedules, access to weapons, money, supervision and training unavailable to the flatfoot working the street, watch out. Especially if those units are supposed to produce results like getting drugs, guns and sex workers off the streets and have an aura of desirability for getting into them with flamboyant leaders building teams of 'hard hitters." They are also a major problem with large agencies as accountability tends to drop when you get over about 1,000 cops in an agency.

Both my current and former agencies are part of a Federally sponsored drug task force and have a strict limit on how long cops can be assigned to the TF to counteract these kinds of problems. They rotate cops and supervisors out of these units on a regular basis so as to avoid the issues that can come from cops no longer remembering they are cops and that they have to obey the rule of law rather than focusing on the results as politicians and Chief's often demand.

So yes, while I wholeheartedly condemn any abuse of power by cops, things like this are eminently avoidable by better leadership, supervision, selection and accountability.
You may be a good cop but I don't know you from Adam. And cops in general don't get a free pass by me, ever. The biggest problem I have with cops is that they are allowed to lie and I could never trust a liar. Yeah I know it's legally 'OK' for cops to lie but God didn't say it was 'OK', so any cops that lie are immoral assholes in my book. Do they all lie(?), I doubt it but I've talked to many cops, did ride alongs, and many admit that lying is a valuable investigative technique. Still a lie. So any time I interact with police the best assumption is that the cop is lying to me, because it's allowed. And back to the cliche 'if there were any good cops there wouldn't be any bad cops' leaves one to believe (and deservedly so) that all cops are complicit.

And as for apples we all know that a few bad apples un-culled results in a barrel full of bad apples.
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Old February 09, 2018, 22:31   #12
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You may be a good cop but I don't know you from Adam. And cops in general don't get a free pass by me, ever. The biggest problem I have with cops is that they are allowed to lie and I could never trust a liar. Yeah I know it's legally 'OK' for cops to lie but God didn't say it was 'OK', so any cops that lie are immoral assholes in my book. Do they all lie(?), I doubt it but I've talked to many cops, did ride alongs, and many admit that lying is a valuable investigative technique. Still a lie. So any time I interact with police the best assumption is that the cop is lying to me, because it's allowed. And back to the cliche 'if there were any good cops there wouldn't be any bad cops' leaves one to believe (and deservedly so) that all cops are complicit.

And as for apples we all know that a few bad apples un-culled results in a barrel full of bad apples.
So you've NEVER, EVER lied in your entire life? Even when your wife asked you if her ass looked fat in those pants? Because if you try to tell me you ALWAYS tell the truth, then I'm gonna call bullshit.

I can use trickery to try to get criminals to incriminate themselves and solve crimes. I would NEVER lie under oath, never withhold exculpatory evidence, never knowingly charge an innocent person with a crime or do anything immoral, illegal or unprofessional merely to secure an indictment or conviction. No criminal is worth my integrity. You can think whatever you like, that's your right because we live in a free country but I also have the right to disagree with you.
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Old February 10, 2018, 11:17   #13
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Trickery eh, as long as you can sleep...
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Old February 10, 2018, 11:37   #14
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Trickery eh, as long as you can sleep...
I sleep like a baby.

I feel no shame or remorse when I tell a child rape suspect I have his DNA from the kid's diapers (yeah, 3 year old kid ) which proves he raped her which leads him to a full confession of his disgusting acts even though I didn't have his DNA at all. Which is better: that the pedophile go free to harm other kids or that yes, I lie to him and get his confession? You tell me...
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Old February 10, 2018, 13:04   #15
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A LEO can also " use trickery" to try to get the innocent to incriminate themselves, and solve crimes.

That is why it is so important that one should remain silent when LEO types are asking questions or making statements.
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Old February 10, 2018, 13:16   #16
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You admit to being a liar, no need to justify yourself to me, I don't trust you either way....
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Old February 10, 2018, 15:07   #17
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Both my current and former agencies are part of a Federally sponsored drug task force and have a strict limit on how long cops can be assigned to the TF to counteract these kinds of problems. They rotate cops and supervisors out of these units on a regular basis so as to avoid the issues that can come from cops no longer remembering they are cops and that they have to obey the rule of law rather than focusing on the results as politicians and Chief's often demand.
.
Not the worst idea. Probably keeps some from becoming power-monsters,others from going "injun"...
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Old February 10, 2018, 17:08   #18
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I sleep like a baby.

I feel no shame or remorse when I tell a child rape suspect I have his DNA from the kid's diapers (yeah, 3 year old kid ) which proves he raped her which leads him to a full confession of his disgusting acts even though I didn't have his DNA at all. Which is better: that the pedophile go free to harm other kids or that yes, I lie to him and get his confession? You tell me...
That technique occasionally leads innocent people to confess, too. Is that acceptable to you?
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Old February 10, 2018, 18:16   #19
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That technique occasionally leads innocent people to confess, too. Is that acceptable to you?
Unfortunately it can under certain circumstances. And often those circumstance are from over zealous or lazy investigators. And it is not acceptable for an innocent person to go to jail. Sometimes they are arrested and are later released. But these days, very few innocent people end up being convicted of a crime they did not commit. Most of those cases you hear of are from many years ago when a single officer worked the case, got the warrant, did the investigation and then prepared the case. There was no double checking for errors. And in most of those cases too, there was some sort of bias towards the person arrested: race, mental capacity, intelligence, criminal history, etc. And often, there were flagrant rights violations present. Law enforcement has worked hard to get rid of those "good old days" and bring everything up to a level of professionalism that won't let those "mistakes" happen again.

In every felony case I was involved with, there were at least two separate investigators checking my reports and paperwork to verify that all of the paperwork, evidence collection and storing, interviews, lineups, and all the other things a cop may have to submit for the case to be prosecuted were done correctly and pointed to the perpetrator. This is done to verify that you do have the correct person going to court and that you have a chance at gaining a conviction. As GMan posted above, the only thing I have when I go home is my integrity.

My last major case. Very brutal and bloody. You can see the number of officers starting the followup investigation. The suspect is already in custody and on the way to the jailhouse. My greatest satisfaction of putting this animal in jail was the notification I got when they found him dead in his prison cell.

http://www.live5news.com/clip/834941...n-james-island

https://www.postandcourier.com/archi...9e044f8a3.html
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Old February 10, 2018, 22:15   #20
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Old February 11, 2018, 00:37   #21
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I've known a lot of peace officers over the years. 99 percent were damn fine people and held themselves to a very high standard.

A few were just kind of crazy, adrenaline junky types (motorcycle officers usually). Then a tiny fraction were crooked and had gotten busted out of the profession.

When I was a kid growing up Louis Welch was mayor and Herman Short was police chief. Short didn't take any shit, and police brutality in Houston back then was rampant. But these days....it's a lot calmer.

http://larrywattsauthor.blogspot.com...ing-times.html


An article describing a little about how Houston was the wild west in the past.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...=.027073ec3090

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Old February 12, 2018, 06:48   #22
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You admit to being a liar, no need to justify yourself to me, I don't trust you either way....
So when did you stop beating your wife?
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Old February 12, 2018, 07:07   #23
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That technique occasionally leads innocent people to confess, too. Is that acceptable to you?
The chances of an innocent person confessing are rare these days. Especially to a serious crime. As Tac-40 already explained, the oversight into serious crimes is pretty intense and its no longer sufficient to have just a confession. Prosecutors want DNA, corroborating evidence, video/audio and phone records to get them to sign off on a warrant.

The days of 24 hour interrogations are over, hell, we rarely go past 2 hours these days. I think the longest one I'm aware of in the recent past was 6 hours but that was because the guy was spilling his guts about all the crimes he was involved in.

You need to understand there is a difference between an interview and an interrogation. When I interview people I am seeking knowledge; when I interrogate, I am seeking a confession. By the time I get to an interrogation, I already have sufficient information to determine this person committed the crime which I intend to charge them with. I usually have enough probable cause to seek a warrant for their arrest and will often have a signed arrest warrant for them already because their confession is merely the icing on the cake.

This may surprise you but 99.9% of cops don't like criminals and want to lock them up to stop them preying on innocent people. Therefore, why would they want to lock up innocent folks? Answer: they DON'T. Most of the people we deal with as suspects are repeat offenders; we've dealt with them for years, with their families and their associates. Sure, we get the first time offenders but they either straighten up or go on to be repeat offenders.

I understand many of you have a deep mistrust of the cops in this country but most of your information comes from flawed sources such as TV shows and biased media. When I first got to be a cop, I thought my day was gonna be full of police chases, kicking in doors and having fun. The reality is I spend a good deal of my time doing paperwork to the point I sometimes feel like an armed secretary... Yes, there were and still are some abuses of the rights of innocent people in this nation but it is a fraction of what it used to be and even then, it wasn't all that common to begin with.
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Old February 12, 2018, 15:36   #24
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So when did you stop beating your wife?
Non-sequitur, you know in a logical discussion,....never mind, I'm sure you don't!
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Old February 13, 2018, 10:39   #25
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You need to understand there is a difference between an interview and an interrogation. When I interview people I am seeking knowledge; when I interrogate, I am seeking a confession. By the time I get to an interrogation, I already have sufficient information to determine this person committed the crime which I intend to charge them with. I usually have enough probable cause to seek a warrant for their arrest and will often have a signed arrest warrant for them already because their confession is merely the icing on the cake.



I understand many of you have a deep mistrust of the cops in this country but most of your information comes from flawed sources such as TV shows and biased media. When I first got to be a cop, I thought my day was gonna be full of police chases, kicking in doors and having fun. The reality is I spend a good deal of my time doing paperwork to the point I sometimes feel like an armed secretary... Yes, there were and still are some abuses of the rights of innocent people in this nation but it is a fraction of what it used to be and even then, it wasn't all that common to begin with.
Some of my best RNG buddies are cops. Of course RNG folks are a little different mindset than most folks.

My opinions of cops of late comes from
1. An encounter with an OHP last spring where the officer flat out lied about a seatbelt violation. It was seriously lame, not sure what that was about, but I was there, wife had it on, still got the ticket, and paid it because she couldn't take off from internship.
2. The arrogant pile of blue feces that assumed my wife and I were hiding my son in July. Threatening to send us to jail, etc....yeah, not too bright that one.
3. Recent events in Tulsa and our immediate area concerning "cover-ups" - one involving a death at the jail, and many many others involving the jail, one death involving a pay to play sherriff shooting an unarmed suspect. (that hero went to jail, thankfully) A cop "friend" of a school super that hosted a party for football players. The gay football players sexually assaulted another player on two different occasions. The police dept worked with the superintendent to cover this up....not working out.
4. Several OHP, ODW members involved in sexual scandals that would get most of us in jail, or at least fired. These I know or am connected to personally, not just hearsay.

So that's a few examples in my area. Has zero to do with media portrayals by thug-lovers.
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Old February 13, 2018, 11:45   #26
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The old adage - 'it takes a crook, to catch a crook' - perhaps has more truth to it than people care to consider!
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Old February 13, 2018, 14:18   #27
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Unfortunately it can under certain circumstances. And often those circumstance are from over zealous or lazy investigators. And it is not acceptable for an innocent person to go to jail. Sometimes they are arrested and are later released. But these days, very few innocent people end up being convicted of a crime they did not commit. Most of those cases you hear of are from many years ago when a single officer worked the case, got the warrant, did the investigation and then prepared the case. There was no double checking for errors. And in most of those cases too, there was some sort of bias towards the person arrested: race, mental capacity, intelligence, criminal history, etc. And often, there were flagrant rights violations present. Law enforcement has worked hard to get rid of those "good old days" and bring everything up to a level of professionalism that won't let those "mistakes" happen again.

In every felony case I was involved with, there were at least two separate investigators checking my reports and paperwork to verify that all of the paperwork, evidence collection and storing, interviews, lineups, and all the other things a cop may have to submit for the case to be prosecuted were done correctly and pointed to the perpetrator. This is done to verify that you do have the correct person going to court and that you have a chance at gaining a conviction. As GMan posted above, the only thing I have when I go home is my integrity.

My last major case. Very brutal and bloody. You can see the number of officers starting the followup investigation. The suspect is already in custody and on the way to the jailhouse. My greatest satisfaction of putting this animal in jail was the notification I got when they found him dead in his prison cell.

http://www.live5news.com/clip/834941...n-james-island

https://www.postandcourier.com/archi...9e044f8a3.html
again, situational tac

rural jurisdictions can get rather insane at times.
Mid 90s a gal I knew had her son's jaw dislocated and eye socket broken during interrogation
19 year old kid, oh yeah he "confessed" to the rape
thing was when the results came back neither the juice or pubic hair evidence was his.

Turned out it was her damn brother.

Boy got his check wrote for a bit over a million in settlement. Nope, didn't even go to Court.
btw, the father of that gal was a local cop too

Brother went to treatment but was never charged much less brutalized
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Old February 13, 2018, 15:53   #28
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I think finding an honest cop in Baltimore will be quite an accomplishment. The whole core of that city is rotten. And if you start out as honest, you either will be gotten rid of, or you will "see the light" and convert.

Kinda like Mike in Breaking Bad and Better call Saul..

For over thirty years, Mike served in the Philadelphia Police Department as a beat cop. Every officer in Mike's district, including Mike himself, was involved in police corruption. His son, Matty, followed him onto the force, but was reluctant when his partner, Troy Hoffman, offered to cut him in on a bribe he accepted from a gang. When Matty sought his father for advice, Mike told him to "go along to get along" or else risk getting killed by other cops. Matty accepted the bribes, but Hoffman and another corrupt cop, Jack Fenske, set Matty up to be killed for fear that he would go to Internal Affairs. Matty's death was blamed on a drug dealer whom Hoffman and Fenske also murdered, but Mike figured out what really happened.
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Old February 13, 2018, 19:35   #29
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You need to understand there is a difference between an interview and an interrogation.
Except there isn't.

Other than in counterintelligence, we were taught to never use the word "interrogation". It was just an "interview".

I have a lot of respect for the gman. While we have had our differences, I believe he does an excellent job of articulating "the other side of the story." I believe he holds himself to a high level of integrity. I have no problem with compartmentalizing "tricks" in an interview with a suspect (military or civilian), versus interaction in the real world. A good interrogation is a highly scripted event with careful planning and rehearsals. And the interviewer has years of practice.

The fact remains, even a well-meaning "honest" cop, can make mistakes between the interview and typing up the report. I experienced this when reporting a theft of a firearm. Reading the police report, I saw nothing even vaguely related to my actual statements. It's as if he just took a few key words and made the rest up.

Should the report become part of a court case, and your testimony differs from what the cop wrote in his report, you must be lying. Right? Because the cop couldn't possibly have heard wrong or remembered wrong.

Ergo, there simply is no upside to engaging in conversations with police officers, especially federal, without an attorney present. I wish it were not so, but it is a dangerous road. I'm not talking about witnesses to an event, or "see something, say something." But situations where you are not the one initiating the interview. And never "come on down to the station where we can talk". No, we can talk at my attorney's office.

I recently called in a suspicious person. Wandering around the neighborhood, screaming at 3 AM. A drug addict who has a tent somewhere down in the wash. The cops were suggesting that maybe I actually saw him in someone's yard, which would be actionable. Sorry guys, I know where you are going with this, and I will not bear false witness. And I resent that you're cajoling me to do so!
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Old February 13, 2018, 20:14   #30
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_H._Jackson

Jackson was on the Supreme Court and died in 1954. He ran the Nuremberg Trials.

Jackson is well known for his advice that, "Any lawyer worth his salt will tell the suspect, in no uncertain terms, to make no statement to the police under any circumstances".

That's a fact Jack.
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Old February 13, 2018, 21:43   #31
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I recently called in a suspicious person. Wandering around the neighborhood, screaming at 3 AM. A drug addict who has a tent somewhere down in the wash. The cops were suggesting that maybe I actually saw him in someone's yard, which would be actionable. Sorry guys, I know where you are going with this, and I will not bear false witness. And I resent that you're cajoling me to do so!


The police were amazingly bogus IMHO. "screaming at 3 AM" I'm not a lawyer but they had an actionable event and they wanted you to lie. That's the problem with lying, once done it's damned easy to justify additional deeper darker lies. It 'could' be said that in this case it was especially insidious, they invited you to the dark side before they would do their job.
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Old February 14, 2018, 21:33   #32
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Except there isn't.

Other than in counterintelligence, we were taught to never use the word "interrogation". It was just an "interview".

I have a lot of respect for the gman. While we have had our differences, I believe he does an excellent job of articulating "the other side of the story." I believe he holds himself to a high level of integrity. I have no problem with compartmentalizing "tricks" in an interview with a suspect (military or civilian), versus interaction in the real world. A good interrogation is a highly scripted event with careful planning and rehearsals. And the interviewer has years of practice.

The fact remains, even a well-meaning "honest" cop, can make mistakes between the interview and typing up the report. I experienced this when reporting a theft of a firearm. Reading the police report, I saw nothing even vaguely related to my actual statements. It's as if he just took a few key words and made the rest up.

Should the report become part of a court case, and your testimony differs from what the cop wrote in his report, you must be lying. Right? Because the cop couldn't possibly have heard wrong or remembered wrong.

Ergo, there simply is no upside to engaging in conversations with police officers, especially federal, without an attorney present. I wish it were not so, but it is a dangerous road. I'm not talking about witnesses to an event, or "see something, say something." But situations where you are not the one initiating the interview. And never "come on down to the station where we can talk". No, we can talk at my attorney's office.

I recently called in a suspicious person. Wandering around the neighborhood, screaming at 3 AM. A drug addict who has a tent somewhere down in the wash. The cops were suggesting that maybe I actually saw him in someone's yard, which would be actionable. Sorry guys, I know where you are going with this, and I will not bear false witness. And I resent that you're cajoling me to do so!

Mark, I appreciate the kind words. In my defense, I perhaps should have mentioned that many of the various different schools of interview and interrogation have, to one degree or another, decided to separate the two concepts for the simplicity of instruction. It is perfectly possible for an interview to morph rather quickly into an interrogation but it is unusual for an interrogation to take place without an interview first.

I interview many people but only interrogate a very small number of suspects.

I've said this many times; the biggest challenge facing police work in this country is a fundamental lack of leadership. Where there is no vision, the people perish. Without strong leadership, integrity and honesty, you cannot hope to keep peace officers on the right path.
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Old February 14, 2018, 22:00   #33
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I've said this many times; the biggest challenge facing police work in this country is a fundamental lack of leadership. Where there is no vision, the people perish. Without strong leadership, integrity and honesty, you cannot hope to keep peace officers on the right path.
Total fukin hogwash, there is no honesty from liars. Again you have no basic understanding of logic. You want to be taken seriously quit fukin lying!
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Old February 14, 2018, 22:45   #34
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Uh... you doin' okay, Jax?

Seems like someone peed in your Cheerios...
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Old February 14, 2018, 23:16   #35
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Uh... you doin' okay, Jax?

Seems like someone peed in your Cheerios...
If the kool-aid in your AO is yellow it's your call, dig in!
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Old February 14, 2018, 23:37   #36
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I think my past posts will make my position on dishonest cops abundantly clear. I also think that the gman doesn't need me to carry any of his water, but we should be pleased that there are some good guys out there, too.

My interpretation is that you are strongly opposed to cops hiding behind the badge while they lie. I'm with you on that. I'm also interpreting that you are not digging the gman stating that he'll mislead (lie to...) a criminal to get self-incriminating evidence - as if that is a verboten activity that should never happen.

If you play cards, you are participating in an activity where people lie to you (poker - not "Go Fish"...). It's the nature of the activity you chose. If you are a child rapist or a bank robber, I submit that you've entered the 'game' where people are going to tell you something that isn't true to get you to tell them something that is useful. You did it, and you are living by a non-standard 'standard'. Investigations that intersect with the non-standard 'standard' probably have to operate in the new 'standard'.

Before you ask "Where does it end?" - meaning where can the cop *not* lie, George already answered that: won't, doesn't, hasn't lied under oath, to get a warrant, etc. Because he's back in the 'legal' standard.

It seems reasonable, doesn't it?

Or you're just pissed at George or cops in general, and he's a convenient target?
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Old February 14, 2018, 23:57   #37
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I think my past posts will make my position on dishonest cops abundantly clear. I also think that the gman doesn't need me to carry any of his water, but we should be pleased that there are some good guys out there, too.

My interpretation is that you are strongly opposed to cops hiding behind the badge while they lie. I'm with you on that. I'm also interpreting that you are not digging the gman stating that he'll mislead (lie to...) a criminal to get self-incriminating evidence - as if that is a verboten activity that should never happen.

If you play cards, you are participating in an activity where people lie to you (poker - not "Go Fish"...). It's the nature of the activity you chose. If you are a child rapist or a bank robber, I submit that you've entered the 'game' where people are going to tell you something that isn't true to get you to tell them something that is useful. You did it, and you are living by a non-standard 'standard'. Investigations that intersect with the non-standard 'standard' probably have to operate in the new 'standard'.

Before you ask "Where does it end?" - meaning where can the cop *not* lie, George already answered that: won't, doesn't, hasn't lied under oath, to get a warrant, etc. Because he's back in the 'legal' standard.

It seems reasonable, doesn't it?

Or you're just pissed at George or cops in general, and he's a convenient target?

I stated my case earlier, I don't trust liars in general. That includes cops, and I don't give a flyin hoo hoo if the pope himself gave special dispensation for the cop to lie, God didn't! And the US Congress is certainly no closer to heaven than the pope.

George? George fukin who? I don't know a George. But if George lies in any case I don't trust anything he's says afterwards, and I think you are a more than a bit light in the head if you do! You want to trust a liar, cool, it's on you, I don't, not now, not ever!
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Old February 15, 2018, 00:05   #38
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I don't trust people I don't know - cops or not.

I'm just not targeting cops as liars - knowing that a bunch of them are, and some of them are not. Each person is going to prove it out by the way they act. Even if they're cops.

No one trusts a liar - it's not like that is rocket science.
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Old February 15, 2018, 00:19   #39
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Total fukin hogwash, there is no honesty from liars. Again you have no basic understanding of logic. You want to be taken seriously quit fukin lying!
I'll say this as clearly and simply as I can: you are a hypocrite. I can't stand hypocrites so GFY. Because I just don't believe you if you try to tell me you have NEVER, EVER told a SINGLE lie in your ENTIRE life. That is completely and utterly impossible so I'd rather be a 'liar' than a hypocritical, lying, unrealistic sack of dicks.
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Old February 15, 2018, 00:34   #40
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I'll say this as clearly and simply as I can: you are a hypocrite. I can't stand hypocrites so GFY. Because I just don't believe you if you try to tell me you have NEVER, EVER told a SINGLE lie in your ENTIRE life. That is completely and utterly impossible so I'd rather be a 'liar' than a hypocritical, lying, unrealistic sack of dicks.

That's because you are a moron asking children's questions. I'm human, of course I've lied, I learned my lessons, I've paid my penance, nobody ever told me it was OK to lie, I learned it was a bad thing, you didn't, I don't lie as a matter of course or as a matter of habit, that would be you, it's part of your job, or trickery! You can actually be rewarded for lying! And you have admitted to as much! And as I can't stand liars Good For You a$$hole!
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Old February 15, 2018, 07:58   #41
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As a cop, you tell a State-approved lie, it's OK. When you lie, attempt to intimidate, and draw conclusions without a shred of evidence, then turn out to be wrong, at least you've got the State on your side to justify your misdeeds, and a "thin blue line" of good cops to cover up any thing that might cause even the State to blush.

If I lie as part of my job (even initialing an inspection report) I can be fired, subject to fines, or in an extreme case go to jail. My co-workers, good friends though they are, won't want a piece of that.

The instances I noted in my previous post were egregious acts against innocent people, some teens. Not only did "one" officer commit such an act, but his peers covered up, or attempted to cover up the misdeed(s). When push came to shove, the departments attempted to protect their own. It took a petition and a grand jury to even get the case to go to court in one instance. (shooting a handcuffed suspect)

This culture of dishonesty and the "thin blue line" is more deserving of the RICO act, and I haven't even brought up stealing from citizens.

But - last year a bill was in the house to prevent costumed State forces from seizing property without due cause or conviction. Guess who opposed that? Yes, the Sheriff's Association, the police unions....(

Maybe, Gman, this isn't about you personally, but more folks are recognizing that putting y'all above regular citizens has had some really bad consequences. Trying to defend it, is a tough job. Good luck.
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Old February 15, 2018, 09:01   #42
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I agree with the assertion that one cannot be dishonest in one aspect of their lives, without being dishonest in general Which is why I believe that Brunop lying, to steal a small service fee from PayPal, makes him a lowlife piece of shit in general. I'd not trust him with anything, because it is that he steals, not the amount that he steals, that defines his character.

And I'm not saying that I can't be bought. If I found a million dollars in a duffle bag, with a "property of John Doe, 123 Sesame Street, Anytown USA" on it. I just might keep it. I don't know. It hasn't happened yet. I just don't understand people selling their integrity for a couple cents.

So now we have this imaginary construct - lets call him Officer George. He comes across as the perfect cop. Strong, handsome, good natured, intelligent, and honest as the day is long. A real boyscout. A perfect leader. He's the "good guy" we all played as kids, chasing the "bad guys".

He's caught some bad guys who have been a menace to society - but there is very little evidence (they are very skilled badguys). He needs for one to turn on the others. He has them each in a separate cell ('cause he don't want them cooking up a story 'tween them).

Is it immoral to lie to one or more of the suspects, to motivate them to roll on their accomplices? Does a cop who does so, transfer that "dishonesty" to every aspect of their lives?

I don't think so. I see it as theater. And just because one plays a part on the stage, doesn't make them that character when the curtains close.

But I understand the reasoning of those who disagree. I just think context matters.

"Hello Mr. Gestapo man, I cannot tell a lie. I gots a little Jew girl hiding up in the attic."
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Old February 15, 2018, 10:40   #43
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I agree with the assertion that one cannot be dishonest in one aspect of their lives, without being dishonest in general Which is why I believe that Brunop lying, to steal a small service fee from PayPal, makes him a lowlife piece of shit in general. I'd not trust him with anything, because it is that he steals, not the amount that he steals, that defines his character.
I was hoping you'd show up. Still butthurt over the last beating, I see.

No.

1. While I support anyone else's using PP F&F to transfer funds during a business deal, I don't have a business that uses PP

2. I use PP to give money to friends and associates

3. I use PP to do transactions with friends and associates here - including buying gun parts. PayPal acknowledges that this is how the service was meant to be used.

Ergo, I'm not stealing anything. But, just like you, I "might" do it if it came up, and I "support" the other people who do do it. Just like your other "conundrums", I guess.

Keep being mentally deficient. Makes clubbing you easier.
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Old February 15, 2018, 11:00   #44
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Just as every cop's a criminal,
and all the sinners, saints.
As heads is tails just call me Lucifer
I'm in need of some restraint.
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Old February 15, 2018, 11:21   #45
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I was hoping you'd show up. Still butthurt over the last beating, I see.
If that's how you choose to describe my calling you out for the lowlife piece of shit you are? Well, allllllllrighty then!

Quote:
I use PP to do transactions with friends and associates here - including buying gun parts.
Yes, you lie about the nature of a transaction to defraud PayPal of their modest service fee. Because you are a low-life, piece of shit, thief.

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PayPal acknowledges that this is how the service was meant to be used.
"Lastly, it is against the PayPal User Agreement to accept personal payments for the sale of goods and services." Frank, Paypal Administrator, Paypal Forums.

You may not use the “send money to a friend or family member” feature in your PayPal account when you are paying for goods and services. (Paypal user agreement)
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Old February 15, 2018, 12:14   #46
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There's lots more in the Baltimore Sun article that Vice used as a source: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...126-story.html
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Old February 15, 2018, 13:13   #47
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As a cop, you tell a State-approved lie, it's OK. When you lie, attempt to intimidate, and draw conclusions without a shred of evidence, then turn out to be wrong, at least you've got the State on your side to justify your misdeeds, and a "thin blue line" of good cops to cover up any thing that might cause even the State to blush.

If I lie as part of my job (even initialing an inspection report) I can be fired, subject to fines, or in an extreme case go to jail. My co-workers, good friends though they are, won't want a piece of that.

The instances I noted in my previous post were egregious acts against innocent people, some teens. Not only did "one" officer commit such an act, but his peers covered up, or attempted to cover up the misdeed(s). When push came to shove, the departments attempted to protect their own. It took a petition and a grand jury to even get the case to go to court in one instance. (shooting a handcuffed suspect)

This culture of dishonesty and the "thin blue line" is more deserving of the RICO act, and I haven't even brought up stealing from citizens.

But - last year a bill was in the house to prevent costumed State forces from seizing property without due cause or conviction. Guess who opposed that? Yes, the Sheriff's Association, the police unions....(

Maybe, Gman, this isn't about you personally, but more folks are recognizing that putting y'all above regular citizens has had some really bad consequences. Trying to defend it, is a tough job. Good luck.
My state has passed anti confiscation laws and is getting ready to ratchet down and close off the last loop holes some dishonest cities are still using to justify the unlawful taking of other's property. I'm glad. I've never supported confiscation of property without due process of law AFTER someone has been convicted of a crime and then only if it can be shown to be the proceeds of the crime for which they were convicted.

That your experience has been poor with some officers in your AO is neither my fault nor responsibility. Your rant is the equivalent of blaming your city councilors or state legislators for what the CA legislature do because they share the same profession. I personally cannot be responsible for the actions of every other cop in the USA. I can only control my actions, attempt to influence the actions of other cops in my locale, set the example of good behavior and do my best by training other cops to act responsibly.

Outside of that, its on YOU to hold your local agencies accountable, not ME. See, every time you point a finger, there's 3 of them pointing right back at you. Been saying this for YEARS; local folks need to take an interest in their local agencies, form police overwatch committees, get elected to council, demand transparency and get off their arses to do something but 99.5% of you won't. Its easier to bitch than it is do anything else so you get the kind of cops, local government, state government and Federal government you deserve. Sucks to be you...
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Old February 15, 2018, 13:15   #48
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That's because you are a moron asking children's questions. I'm human, of course I've lied, I learned my lessons, I've paid my penance, nobody ever told me it was OK to lie, I learned it was a bad thing, you didn't, I don't lie as a matter of course or as a matter of habit, that would be you, it's part of your job, or trickery! You can actually be rewarded for lying! And you have admitted to as much! And as I can't stand liars Good For You a$$hole!
What a fcuking child you are.
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Old February 15, 2018, 13:56   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the gman View Post
My state has passed anti confiscation laws and is getting ready to ratchet down and close off the last loop holes some dishonest cities are still using to justify the unlawful taking of other's property. I'm glad. I've never supported confiscation of property without due process of law AFTER someone has been convicted of a crime and then only if it can be shown to be the proceeds of the crime for which they were convicted.

Good.

That your experience has been poor with some officers in your AO is neither my fault nor responsibility. Your rant is the equivalent of blaming your city councilors or state legislators for what the CA legislature do because they share the same profession. I personally cannot be responsible for the actions of every other cop in the USA. I can only control my actions, attempt to influence the actions of other cops in my locale, set the example of good behavior and do my best by training other cops to act responsibly.

I was responding to your statement about public sentiment being influenced by the media, pointing out that my suspicions about state officials are based on experience, not TV.

Outside of that, its on YOU to hold your local agencies accountable, not ME. See, every time you point a finger, there's 3 of them pointing right back at you. Been saying this for YEARS; local folks need to take an interest in their local agencies, form police overwatch committees, get elected to council, demand transparency and get off their arses to do something but 99.5% of you won't.

How the heck do you know what I do? Cops sixth sense?
Its easier to bitch than it is do anything else so you get the kind of cops, local government, state government and Federal government you deserve. Sucks to be you...
No, it really doesn't.


I'm glad you advocate for "citizens" watching over cops. It would appear that they bear watching.
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Old February 15, 2018, 14:24   #50
Jaxxas
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Originally Posted by the gman View Post
What a fcuking child you are.
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